US Open - Matches

First topic message reminder :

Have changed the topic so that this thread can run through the tournament. Hope that's OK

Woohoo!

Gasquet confirms that Murray will be staying at no.3 this week.  

Well played Gasquet you conquered your mental demons.   Nothing against Ferrer but Gasquet is more watchable.

This flashy, lukewarm guy has just got to the US Open semis!

Yeah!!!! Great to see Gasquet bring it home. I also think Ferrer choked a bit, but that happens

Well that is impressive. What's Gasquet up to now Cogen?

well done Gasquet

it may have been a bit of an off-day for Ferrer, but it took great guts to come out and turn around the momentum in that fifth set, when he looked dead on his feet.

Now two days to recover for (probably) Nadal in the SF. I would suggest not a particularly long practise tomorrow

This is problematic for Tsonga's WTF hopes though

Tom_____ wrote:He may well deservedly take this match, but I've always thought gasquet has achieved pretty much what his talent is worth. If the guy was a computer game character he's basically maxed out on one shot and is Luke warm in all other departments, poor in tactical awareness and poor in mental strength. These are talent he lacks which ultimately have proved more important than his flashy shots in bringing results in.

I see where you're comng from Tom, but I feel that for a player with his talent not to win anything of note, is almost a crime

The Special Juan wrote:Well that is impressive.  What's Gasquet up to now Cogen?  

He's still at no.9 for now, but he's moved to within a few hundred points of Tsonga.

Ok, but I don't see what the excuse is for him failing to achieve on his talent, unless we admit he is deficient in other ways such a mental strength. The only time I really can say that a player has not achieved on talent is if injury has got in the way - e.g safins mid career knee injuries (mental demons obviously stopped him also). You look at Nadal say and I'm sure if he shared the mentality of some of the guys on tour, he would have retired by now with the knee injuries he's fought through. I don't think we ever really give full credit to the talent that is mental strength.

The difference is Nadal "enjoys suffering" or something

kingraf wrote:This is problematic for Tsonga's WTF hopes though

Tsonga had little chance before this event and has even less now. And let's be honest, anyone thinking that he does is getting seduced by his French beating of Federer, which we now see as a mere 'meh' achievement

I hope Gasquet and Wawrinka make it - simply because they have taken some almighty stick throughout the years. But that would mean Roger not making it

Have to add - big well done to gasquet for coming through this. What chances does he now have for the slam?

Tom_____ wrote:Ok, but I don't see what the excuse is for him failing to achieve on his talent, unless we admit he is deficient in other ways such a mental strength. The only time I really can say that a player has not achieved on talent is if injury has got in the way - e.g safins mid career knee injuries (mental demons obviously stopped him also). You look at Nadal say and I'm sure if he shared the mentality of some of the guys on tour, he would have retired by now with the knee injuries he's fought through. I don't think we ever really give full credit to the talent that is mental strength.

Oh I agree with you. But I think in life, there has to be room for the talented and mentally weak to have their day in the sun. It kind of makes life a bit more understandable. He'll never be up there with Murray, when really his talent deserves to be - but that shows you can't make the most of a career unless you are mentally strong, i.e. a lesson in life

kingraf wrote:As an aside, talent definition is a hopeless thing to attempt to break down. I remmember when Kevin Pietersen first played a switch-hit, the British media, and commentators couldnt stop gushing about how KP's ability to play the shot was evidence that he is the most talented player in world cricket, that was great, but now I see school cricketers playing the shot succesfully... Sometimes flash is mistaken quite wrongly, imo for talent. Also I dont subscribe to the Syed principle

Inspiration rather than flash in this case

Tom_____ wrote:Have to add - big well done to gasquet for coming through this. What chances does he now have for the slam?

About the same as if he'd lost

I am, however, officially relieved that Ferrer did not progress further.

Tom_____ wrote:Have to add - big well done to gasquet for coming through this. What chances does he now have for the slam?

Hmmmm... to be brutally honest, pretty much zero... Likely semifinal opponent Nadal has a 10-0 H2H against him. If he somehow pulls that off, can he really follow it up with a win over Djokovic or Murray in his first ever GS final? Doubtful...

banbrotam wrote:

Tom_____ wrote:Ok, but I don't see what the excuse is for him failing to achieve on his talent, unless we admit he is deficient in other ways such a mental strength. The only time I really can say that a player has not achieved on talent is if injury has got in the way - e.g safins mid career knee injuries (mental demons obviously stopped him also). You look at Nadal say and I'm sure if he shared the mentality of some of the guys on tour, he would have retired by now with the knee injuries he's fought through. I don't think we ever really give full credit to the talent that is mental strength.

Oh I agree with you. But I think in life, there has to be room for the talented and mentally weak to have their day in the sun. It kind of makes life a bit more understandable. He'll never be up there with Murray, when really his talent deserves to be  - but that shows you can't make the most of a career unless you are mentally strong, i.e. a lesson in life

I'm happy to agree that gasquet deserved good results and it's good to see another name in the SF. I'm just feeling a bit of balance is needed when talking about talent in terms of shots and tennis we rarely see. Talent in that sense can hold you back - e.g Federer right now, still trying to win in the same manner he did at 24 when his mind and body need him to think of new ways to get those points won. Sometimes talent will have you chasing rainbows imo.

Cogen wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:Well that is impressive.  What's Gasquet up to now Cogen?  

He's still at no.9 for now, but he's moved to within a few hundred points of Tsonga.

Thanks I don't think Tsonga dropped many from the USO considering his early defeat to Klizan last year so it'll be very close between the two for that final O2 spot. My gut feeling says Tsonga will pull through.

Nothing new about switch hitting CJ, hardly inspired, only arrogant, brash, and outrageous... Flashy in other words

JuliusHMarx wrote:I am, however, officially relieved that Ferrer did not progress further.

Me too. As it means that Andy's No.3 spot is secure  

This is how desperate it becomes when your player can only be bothered to turn up for Slams

He speaks at 100 mph haha.
Bravo Richaaaarrrddd, formidable! LA FUSEE!

How high do people rate the abity to learn and adapt on the talent scale? Nadal gassed his serve up by 15mph on the back of just one two hour practise session, while it took Djokovic the best part of 18 months to fix his serve back to where it was before he tinkered...

Tom_____ wrote:Have to add - big well done to gasquet for coming through this. What chances does he now have for the slam?

Low. Likely Rafa then one of Murray or Djokovic is incredibly hard for him. Last time he got this far he lost in Straight sets and the last time Gasquet took a set off Rafa was at his worst event- the WTF on indoor courts. The last time he won was 2003. Against Novak he has one win at the same 2007 finals, and no sets since then. Against Murray it's more even, even recently, but it's a slam final and I can't see Richard staying strong mentally.

and neither of those two imo come close talent wise to feds

kingraf wrote:Nothing new about switch hitting CJ, hardly inspired, only arrogant, brash, and outrageous... Flashy in other words

Well, he is South African (sorry!)

Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on KP, we are very happy to keep him

The Special Juan wrote:

Cogen wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:Well that is impressive.  What's Gasquet up to now Cogen?  

He's still at no.9 for now, but he's moved to within a few hundred points of Tsonga.

Thanks  I don't think Tsonga dropped many from the USO considering his early defeat to Klizan last year so it'll be very close between the two for that final O2 spot.  My gut feeling says Tsonga will pull through.

Only if he comes back and actually starts winning some games. If Stan get's to the semi's here - Jo's got a problem as really there is only one spot to go for an that Swiss will be in pole postiion

ChequeredJersey wrote:

kingraf wrote:Nothing new about switch hitting CJ, hardly inspired, only arrogant, brash, and outrageous... Flashy in other words

Well, he is South African (sorry!)

Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on KP, we are very happy to keep him

Enough cricket chat!! That can re-commence in November  

But it gave me an excuse to snark about Rafafan's South Africanness!

banbrotam wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:

Cogen wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:Well that is impressive.  What's Gasquet up to now Cogen?  

He's still at no.9 for now, but he's moved to within a few hundred points of Tsonga.

Thanks  I don't think Tsonga dropped many from the USO considering his early defeat to Klizan last year so it'll be very close between the two for that final O2 spot.  My gut feeling says Tsonga will pull through.

Only if he comes back and actually starts winning some games. If Stan get's to the semi's here - Jo's got a problem as really there is only one spot to go for an that Swiss will be in pole postiion

Of course! I completely forgot about Wawrinka which is inexcusable I know. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes right down to the few events before London. I'm trying to think - when are Basel and Paris?

Ginny Wade is commentating!! My night is made.

ChequeredJersey wrote:But it gave me an excuse to snark about Rafafan's South Africanness!

You're right. Carry on

From CJ I expect, et tu Banbro? haha... From a cricketing prospective, Im pretty sure Id keep Kallis over KP, from a cricketing perspective Im pretty sure Id take a worker over "talent" any day...

Not able to watch the Gasquet-Ferrer match so this has been a great thread to follow. Like others I can't quite believe Gasquet turned this around, more so that it was against his bogeyman. And 2 5-set victories in a row? Something must have changed in Gasquet's preparation. This is pretty big.

On the talent issue, the reason people rate Gasquet as a "talent" is because he is capable of some rare tennis. When on song winners fly off his racquet with abandon (on both FH and BH) and few players can live with him. As Lydian points out, Ferrer is ultimately the better player by virtue of being able to maintain a good level of play throughout a match.

Back to the tennis, Gasquet winning in 5 has ruined my plan to watch Rafa now

kingraf wrote:From CJ I expect, et tu Banbro? haha... From a cricketing prospective, Im pretty sure Id keep Kallis over KP, from a cricketing perspective Im pretty sure Id take a worker over "talent" any day...

We are on the same side for this sport

Ive got to be at work at five, Im out. Gasquet has ruined my Rafa session as well.

CJ

"Thursday night session on Ashe begins with exhibition doubles: Hall of Famers Chris Evert/Monica Seles vs… Rainn Wilson/Jason Biggs"

Djokovic'll be delighted if this match is on and is just finished before all of a sudden the heavens open.

2 interesting bits of news.... Murray v Wawrinka is tomorrow afternoon, so I can watch it  

Also, Novak was asked by Greg would he prefer 2 slams or YE no.1 if he couldn't have both, and he chose 2 slams.

That is all.

Surely if he gets 2 slams he is almost certain to stay No1?

I don't think so. If Rafa has a reasonably good end to the season it doesn't matter what Novak does.... I think.

Cogen? Where are you?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Surely if he gets 2 slams he is almost certain to stay No1?

The thing is, let's say djoko beats Nadal in final - he would still lose 400 pts net to Nadal who would gain 1200 to djokos 800. Leaves about 600 between them. Then djoko can only gain around 1600 in the last few toutournaments, 500 pekin, two masters and wfts if he wins all. For Nadal it's all gravy.

Mac called Nadal the Einstein or da Vinci of tennis... I mean relatively speaking, he is of course right, just think Mac needs this guy crush sorted before he embarasses himself on-air

Danny_1982 wrote:I don't think so. If Rafa has a reasonably good end to the season it doesn't matter what Novak does.... I think.

Cogen? Where are you?

I think it is a nailed-on cert that Rafa will be year ending No.1 to be honest. Rafa's struggle to defend the No.1 spot will start from around next March when he will have bucket loads of points to defend (barring Wimbledon of course).

It's probably as well Federer didn't make the quarters looking at the form Nadal was on last night.

Stat of the day...Rafa has now gone 80 service games unbroken, stretching back to Cincy

So we had a slam QF in which a player only won 4 games.

This was the day after a 4th round match in which a player won 3 games.

This is a monumentally poor tournament so far.

I'm predicting Stan gets more than 3-4 games!

Well there was a women's QF in which only 12 games were played

Very glad for Gasquet, the second slam SF of his career (after a 6+ year gap), but what a challenge he has!

(I am sad for Ferrer though, he fought back well, but not well enough).

Stan and Colonel have their work cut-out. Stan has a better chance, IMHO, compared to the Colonel. I would love to see Stan make it to a Slam SF.