Champions League Group Stages

by **Crimey** Thu 29 Aug 2013, 4:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

The draw is tonight and we could have some potentially crazy strong groups, Manchester City have a 50% chance of being in the same group as Bayern Munich or Barcelona.

What is the tie everybody wants to see in the group stages?

by mystiroakey Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:25 pm

By the way.. Arsernal are not a poor side.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:25 pm

All about context.

by mystiroakey Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:32 pm

It's like calling Holland a poor side.

by MIG Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:34 pm

He didn't say Arsenal are a poor side. He said Arsenal are a poor side without the ball.

by mystiroakey Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:35 pm

They have the ball more than any other pl side

by MIG Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:37 pm

Which is great. But they need to improve their play without the ball and they will be real contenders.

by mystiroakey Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:39 pm

Sometimes you can't have everything.

If Spain balanced there play and didn't strive for possession they wouldnt have won 3 cups on the spin

by TopHat24/7 Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:40 pm

Passing it around your back four and/or between midfield and defence looks lovely for possession stats but is utterly meaningless and, at some point, you will not have the ball and at the point if you can't win it back, you'll get nowhere.

by mystiroakey Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:41 pm

Which is why ozil was such a good investment. A proven player that can penetrate the final third

by TopHat24/7 Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:41 pm

Ahhhhhh, that long last Arsenal dream/delusion of being the Spain/Barca of the EPL........ Rolling Eyes

by MIG Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:41 pm

You can't compare Arsenal to Spain or Barcelona. The difference is when Spain or Barcelona do lose possesion they are brilliant at winning it back again, quickly.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:42 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Which is why ozil was such a good investment. A proven player that can penetrate the final third

And when Arsenal don't have the ball what good is he then??

Let's not make out like Arsenal have some freakish 80%+ possession stats. They don't have the ball plenty of the time and are poor at winning it back.

by mystiroakey Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:43 pm

Possession is possession

If arsernal can't win possession back they wouldn't top the pl in possesion

by mystiroakey Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:43 pm

No one has 80% possesion

by MIG Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:44 pm

Yes they would because the other teams possesion will ultimately result in a goal kick, corner, throw in or centre kick eventually.

by MIG Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:46 pm

Exactly. If they did have 80% possesion then your theory would be spot on, but they don't. Therefore they need to strengthen in the areas of the team that deal with winning back possesion.

by mystiroakey Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:46 pm

They still have more of the ball than any other team. Adding players like ozil should not only increase possession but also increase goals per game

by TopHat24/7 Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:51 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Possession is possession

If arsernal can't win possession back they wouldn't top the pl in possesion

They don't currently, as it happens.

However this is a totally moot point as the PL is decided on possession. Top of the league in possession but lucky to scrape 4th tells you all you need to know.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:52 pm

mystiroakey wrote:They still have more of the ball than any other team. Adding players like ozil should not only increase possession but also increase goals per game

A world class striker would have done much better in getting them more goals. They already have plenty of capable midfielders.

by MIG Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:53 pm

I don't think anyone is denying that. You just seem to be completely ignoring the part of the game where Arsenal don't have possesion. Even when they have the top possesion stats in the league there is still a huge chunk of the game played without the ball and if they are weak in that area they will pay for it.

by mystiroakey Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:55 pm

Which is wengers philosophy. And I love identity. Arsenal have character.

by MIG Thu 19 Sep 2013, 4:57 pm

I think Arsenal fans are starting to want trophies over character.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 19 Sep 2013, 5:08 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Which is wengers philosophy. And I love identity. Arsenal have character. And an empty trophy cabinet.

by kingraf Thu 19 Sep 2013, 5:26 pm

Surely having had the second best defensive record in EPL shows that they can in fact play without the ball? Or am I missing something?

by TopHat24/7 Thu 19 Sep 2013, 5:44 pm

Well, they've currently got the worst defensive record in the top half of the league as it happens. And they didn't have the best last season, Citeh did. And they were only 2 better than Chelski and 3 than Everton, so we're not talking about big numbers or them being streaks ahead of everyone else in the defence department.

by kingraf Thu 19 Sep 2013, 6:10 pm

coceding three on match day one fuzzies their defensive record. But, Barcelona's defensive frailties (and they are much worse than Arsenal defensively... They are worse than most age-level teams) havent stopped them from winning three champions leagues, and six La Ligas since Arsenal last won a title. United had a defense which seemed semi-literate in the art of defence, beginning of last year, uo until about Feb, it didnt stop them from winning. For one simple reason: goals win games. You may have a point re: them having needed striker instead of Ozil (I dont think so tbh), but their concerns ahout their defensive woes are premature for my mind.

by LastDamnation Thu 19 Sep 2013, 10:29 pm

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/09/12/4255093/mythbuster-why-arsenal-dont-need-a-defensive-midfielder

I don't agree totally with the article, but the arteta-ramsey double pivot was the main reason why arsenal were strong at the end of last season imo

by TopHat24/7 Fri 20 Sep 2013, 8:58 am

kingraf wrote:coceding three on match day one fuzzies their defensive record. But, Barcelona's defensive frailties (and they are much worse than Arsenal defensively... They are worse than most age-level teams) havent stopped them from winning three champions leagues, and six La Ligas since Arsenal last won a title. United had a defense which seemed semi-literate in the art of defence, beginning of last year, uo until about Feb, it didnt stop them from winning. For one simple reason: goals win games. You may have a point re: them having needed striker instead of Ozil (I dont think so tbh), but their concerns ahout their defensive woes are premature for my mind.

STOP COMPARING ARSENAL AND BARCELONA!!!!

It's like saying England have a chance of winning the world cup if they play the same formation as Brazil!!

by mystiroakey Fri 20 Sep 2013, 9:27 am

tophat

Calm yourself down mate..

He can do what ever he wants and yes its a fine analogy! Barac play possesion football, so do arsernal. Get over it.

by TopHat24/7 Fri 20 Sep 2013, 9:59 am

Who'd have guessed you might say that............ Rolling Eyes

Duty will be happy though, same formation as Germany or Brazil is apparently exactly the same as being as good as them therefore Hodgson only needs a tiny tweak and we're a shoe in for the world cup..........woooooooooo!!!!!!!! clap

by kingraf Fri 20 Sep 2013, 11:44 am

I wasnt comparing Arsenal to Barcelona, I was just proving your point about needing to be defensively solid void. I also referenced United, see you didnt pick that up.

by Duty281 Fri 20 Sep 2013, 3:46 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Who'd have guessed you might say that............

Duty will be happy though, same formation as Germany or Brazil is apparently exactly the same as being as good as them therefore Hodgson only needs a tiny tweak and we're a shoe in for the world cup..........woooooooooo!!!!!!!!

When have I ever said that? No need for hyperbole TopHat.

by TopHat24/7 Fri 20 Sep 2013, 3:58 pm

you're the only man in the world that thinks england are in with a shout next WC

by The Special Juan Fri 20 Sep 2013, 4:35 pm

I love all this "Champions League Group Stage" chat.

by TopHat24/7 Fri 20 Sep 2013, 4:44 pm

Hey, not my fault I needed to extrapolate a little to highlight the absurdity of some of the actual CL chat.

by Champagne_Socialist Fri 20 Sep 2013, 8:38 pm

kingraf wrote:I wasnt comparing Arsenal to Barcelona, I was just proving your point about needing to be defensively solid void. I also referenced United, see you didnt pick that up.

I think you made a valid comparison and valid points.

by TopHat24/7 Sat 21 Sep 2013, 9:24 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
kingraf wrote:I wasnt comparing Arsenal to Barcelona, I was just proving your point about needing to be defensively solid void. I also referenced United, see you didnt pick that up.
I think you made a valid comparison and valid points.

you would.....

by mystiroakey Sat 21 Sep 2013, 9:42 am

Well there is a reason he would Tophat. Its because he is right. And you are just acting like a dog with an old bone!

by Nakatomi Plaza Sat 21 Sep 2013, 12:36 pm

LastDamnation wrote:http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/09/12/4255093/mythbuster-why-arsenal-dont-need-a-defensive-midfielder

I don't agree totally with the article, but the arteta-ramsey double pivot was the main reason why arsenal were strong at the end of last season imo

I agree with your point LD. Arteta played really well in the deep lying role in the last half of the season, and Ramsey's energy helped Arsenal improve defensively. Be interesting to see what happens when Arteta and Cazorla are back fit, because on current form I can see Wilshere being left out.

by Duty281 Tue 01 Oct 2013, 10:02 pm

Arsenal sizzled. Class apparent. They could go far this season on that showing.

Barcelona cheated. The absolute scum of football.

Chelsea won comfortably. That'll steady the ship for a brief time.

by mystiroakey Tue 01 Oct 2013, 10:07 pm

I was having a pop at someone earlier for thinking the russian mafia got involved for chelsea.

Well barca are dody

The celtic sending off was bang out of order!

The amount of euro games i have seen when a player has been sent of against barca when the score is a draw. Its a joke and its just not on!

by Trebs Tue 01 Oct 2013, 10:14 pm

The Celtic player shouldn't have kicked Neymar. It was an aggressive action. Yes, Neymar over-reacted big time but the referee did the right thing, if he didn't do it then people would be having a go saying he shouldn't have let it go. I can't stand Barcelona and find their style of play so boring, I desperately wanted a Celtic victory tonight.

by mystiroakey Tue 01 Oct 2013, 10:17 pm

i will be honest - i didn't see it first time

it was like beckhams little kick wasn't it. i think a yellow was justified and i suppose if you do that there is a chance you go off. so ok i will take back what i originally said and glad there was something to the card

by Duty281 Tue 01 Oct 2013, 10:19 pm

Barcelona are more crooked than an Italian bookmaker. They have UEFA and FIFA in their pockets. Mind you, so do Madrid.

Can't wait for Platini and Blatter to mastermind yet another plan where they get English clubs knocked out of the Champions League in dubious circumstances - just like every single year with their anti-English aspirations.

music

No one likes us,
Oh no one likes us,
We don't care,
We are England, super England music

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 01 Oct 2013, 10:21 pm

It's the kind of red you see given, especially in Europe nowadays. Silly from Brown, he shouldn't have given the ref the decision to make

by LastDamnation Tue 01 Oct 2013, 11:26 pm

BOOM!
Great performance Smile

Ozil will get all the plaudits but Ramsey was incredible again

by lorus59 Wed 02 Oct 2013, 4:37 am

I think Barca still would have won against 11 men as Celtic tired, but Brown was an idiot. He has played enough times in Europe to know you can't get away with that. He should know players like Neymar will over react.

by Stella Wed 02 Oct 2013, 8:44 am

Brown's an idiot full stop. Would love to see him get taken to the cleaners in the EPL.

by Lumbering_Jack Wed 02 Oct 2013, 9:51 am

I don't know how anyone can like Barca.

They are a team of whingy, cheating, diving, play acting melodramatic wimps.

Didn't Xavi talk about reporting Chelsea to FIFA because they beat them. Awful team.

by Duty281 Wed 02 Oct 2013, 10:22 am

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I don't know how anyone can like Barca.

They are a team of whingy, cheating, diving, play acting melodramatic wimps.

Didn't Xavi talk about reporting Chelsea to FIFA because they beat them. Awful team.

I often wonder how Barcelona have any fans. I mean, I'd be embarrassed to support a team like that every week.

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