Lax All Black Pack Cracks But Shag Backs Dagg To Drag Match Back.

First topic message reminder :

Wow. Just wow. South Africa look to be in awesome form.

Granted Australian rugby is in its most miserable state for fifty years, but there is no disguising how intimidating  this Springbok side is.

The Boks have now married their power game with a rapier precision in the Back line and the experience to know when to switch modes. Add Morne Steyn's siege boot and back in form long range goal kicking and you have a serious unit that will be tough to beat. 

Normally poor tourists, South Africa easily outmuscled a fragile looking Australia and clinched a convincing win at the bastion of Australian resistance, the parochial Suncorp stadium.

In this kind of form I can see South Africa ending new Zealand's long run of success at Eden Park. Especially with captain Richie out injured and Dan Carter out of form.

Hats off to Heyneke Meyer. I was a detractor and I put my hand up and say I was wrong.

Most impressive is south Africa's command at the breakdown. Defensively they must have the best turn over rate in the rugby championship and on attack they can maintain pressure through numerous phases and patiently wait their chance to pounce.  Just awesome stuff.

I loved Robin Cooper's The Timewaster Letters. Genuinely hilarious.

GloriousEmpire wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/3633830/The-funny-thing-is-they-all-replied.html

 
 

Yep, an absolute work of genius.

Shellacking for sure, but maybe not on the scoreboard. Hard to visualise how the ABs will win. I just see pain, kicking, collapsed scrum pens and more kicking. But SA will throw caution to the wind 'apparently' according to Meyer. Nice play by him but surely a red herring.

Biltong wrote:I would like to ask our learned New Zealand supporters the following questions.

Has anyone here denied NZ is the best team in the world?

Has anyone here doubted the fact that they have been the best team in the world since the professional era began?

Do you believe New Zealand is so good that South Africa has no chance of beating them?

I am sure your answer to all three those questions will be no.

Hence, whether you believe you can beat us or not, the point is even the best team in the world gets beaten, even if they are the best team in the world, you are playing against the second best team, the team most likely to beat you.

would you agree with that?

So please, show a little humility, be as proud of your team as you can be, I am certainly proud of mine.

however, hold back a tad if the shoe fits. One thing you are not, is invincible.

Who said the ABs wouldnt get beaten, I gave exact reasons why they would. What is the humilty line for. Its a view I have of Bok backplay which you seem to think is irrelevant yet the very core of bok losses for years. You might be proud of your team but do you actually know it?

Rate the bok backs out of 10 from Eden park- doubt any would be above a 5. That is not good enough to beat this AB side, regardless of everything else- put all that down to tthe card if you wish but I'd suggest that would be blinkers on.

That is a view and nothing to do with humility, being proud, who is number 1 or 10, or anything else. Don't think you ever quite get that Biltong.

Sorry that you take objective criticism of your team so personally but I cant help that.

Good luck for Saturday. For the reasons above and the fact that man for man across the board the ABs have stronger skillsets and combinations and should win this. They may not, but regardless of who wins, I think the Bok backs will be the difference, because that is the biggest area for improvement across the two sides.

Just a view.

That aside the usual way to beat the ABs is ultimately through the backs. Thats why the French have done it more than you'd expect, thats how England did it last year, its how the Boks beat us in Dunedin in 09 with Januraires chip and chase to clinch it at the bell and how Ozz have done it several times.

Yes you have to have parity up front but the killer blows have usually come in the backs- isolated attacks from situations where nothing looked on. Kirchners try was an example of that. SA wins over NZ are usually through its goalkicking and there are many instances of that.

No denying SA's set play and aggressive approach upfront, but the lack of innovation and willingness to run the ball in a creative rather than destructive sense is costing them and causing all this frustration for them and why others beat them when they have managed to minimise the effect of the pack.

To its credit SA have started doing this but Eden Park showed theyre not the finished article by any means- JJ Engle and Roussow particularly out of their depth. They need to have stronger games this weekend...yet no one seems to mention this.

To be fair Taylorman, you've mentioned it every day since.

true...thats 10 times then...point taken..

Nah, keep going Tman, ram the message home. Each time you tweak it slightly it gets better and more convincing.

must be the pressure...! Part of me wants Meyers boys to get out and score 6 kirchner type tries...would herald in a new era and bring back the rivalry like never before.

Mmmm, I hope they play exactly as they have been since day dot. Playing to their strengths, nothing more nothing less. It's the clash of styles that fascinates me personally, which style will prevail. I know you don't rate the smash em and kick game plan (nor do I) but it can work on the ABs. It was working at Eden Park until the sending off.

ebop wrote:Mmmm, I hope they play exactly as they have been since day dot. Playing to their strengths, nothing more nothing less. It's the clash of styles that fascinates me personally, which style will prevail. I know you don't rate the smash em and kick game plan (nor do I) but it can work on the ABs. It was working at Eden Park until the sending off.

Can't agree more about the clash of styles. Makes this match fascinating for a neutral. No way for me to predict a winner, simply hoping for both teams to play balls-to-the-wall Rugby, in the style most suited. Should be a lot of fun.

Even better, I don't need to get up early to watch.

What time is it on at?

I should be 4pm UK time.

Or 3pm if you want to hear an hour of Thinus Delport answering the presenter through the medium of sporting cliche.

Yes let me guess.

The atmosphere is truly incredible.
Both teams will be really up for this one.
The most important game in recent memory.
They'll be looking to come out of the blocks quickly and really put the opposition under pressure.
They'll need to minimise mistakes.
It's all about discipline 
Adapting to the referee will be important
They'll want to feed off the crowd/silence the crowd 
The coach has shown faith in them and now they have to deliver 
The battle will be won up front but they need to take their chances
The team who "take most chances" and hence score more points, and who stay disciplined in defence and hence concede fewer points will win. 
Atmosphere and altitude will play such an important role.

Biltong wrote:I should be 4pm UK time.

Thanks Billtong.

I think altitude is a misnomer.

It hasn't affected the All Blacks in the past.

Biltong wrote:I think altitude is a misnomer.

It hasn't affected the All Blacks in the past.

How does it not affect the Boks? I presume they dont all live up mountains so they?

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:I think altitude is a misnomer.

It hasn't affected the All Blacks in the past.

How does it not affect the Boks? I presume they dont all live up mountains so they?

no they don't. hence me saying it is a misnomer.

If you consider the possible starting Xv.

9 of the starting XV is from Durban or Capetown.

Think with the sides being professional athletes now they're obviously a lot fitter so they can cope better with the lack of oxygen in the last 15 mins of a test. Not a huge effect any more other than on kicking.

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:I think altitude is a misnomer.

It hasn't affected the All Blacks in the past.

How does it not affect the Boks? I presume they dont all live up mountains so they?

no they don't. hence me saying it is a misnomer.

If you consider the possible starting Xv.

9 of the starting XV is from Durban or Capetown.

Which town is in the mountain? Bloomfontein is it?

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:I think altitude is a misnomer.

It hasn't affected the All Blacks in the past.

How does it not affect the Boks? I presume they dont all live up mountains so they?

no they don't. hence me saying it is a misnomer.

If you consider the possible starting Xv.

9 of the starting XV is from Durban or Capetown.

Which town is in the mountain? Bloomfontein is it?

It's a plateau - Bloemfontein, Pretoria and Johannesburg.

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:I think altitude is a misnomer.

It hasn't affected the All Blacks in the past.

How does it not affect the Boks? I presume they dont all live up mountains so they?

no they don't. hence me saying it is a misnomer.

If you consider the possible starting Xv.

9 of the starting XV is from Durban or Capetown.

Which town is in the mountain? Bloomfontein is it?

If you take the major Stadia in SA for rugby matches.

Loftus 1354 meters above sea level
Ellispark 1754 meters above sea level
Free state stadium 1399 meters above sea level
Newlands stadium sea level
Kingspark stadium sealevel
Nelson Mandela bay stadium sea level

It will make a difference... to the advantage of whom I'm unsure.

It will impact place kicking by about 10metres. From the half way line few would risk a shot a goal... at the highveld its not a problem. So rather than kick to the corner we will see more pots at goal.

Puts more pressure on midfield scrums and rucks.

Who has the better kicking game?

I would say SA at the moment with Morne & Du Preez.
Knowing the conditions is also important... it takes time to know how much to put on a ball, when to plan runs etc...

SA have that advantage and guys from the FS & Gauteng will be biologically more adept to the conditions then others.

Yeah FA this is why it's such a big test for Aaron Smith. He's been kicking superbly lately but this is a different scenario for him. The type of test where Carter would be a very welcome sight. However Cruden's unpredictability with ball in hand attracts defenders creating space for others so can turn a negative into a positive I guess. Plus he doesn't throw as many intercept passes as DC.

Disney, I think you're right....Smith was put under immense pressure at Twickenham last year and for me it was what turned the game. If Louw and Bismarck can get to him then I think either he'll show his class at the highest level or the boks will come away with the spoils.

Carter would sway the match well into NZ favour, he has a great boot ball to hand.

Beauden Barrett has the longest tactical boot in NZ. It payed divvies last time out and I would play him for this match ahead of Cruden who I would bring in late for impact to seal the bonus point try.

Smith is starting to learn how to cope with that pressure though-he has shown it this year. This will obviously be the litmus test for him but it's also the responsibility of the pack to make sure he's protected.

Might not turn out to be a try fest despite both sides' intentions. Both sides could well end up not giving a flying f**k about the bonus point.

Really looking forward to this match, was very disappointed that we were deprived of a proper 'Test Match' at Eden Park.
I think it's too close to call. Both teams have improved since last year, I thought NZ looked better than they were last year. It seemed that some teams conspired to let them off the hook a few times (Ireland, Arg and SA).

This weekend is huge... We havent beaten NZ in a relevant match for a few years now, and this is our best chance. The match is at altitude, Im not sure how big an advantage that is anymore, but psychologically, the Boks will be pumped up. I think, peak for peak, the ABs are still better than us, but they dont have to be too far off for us to take them out. Four tries is irrelevant, a win is all I want. Was planning on getting a few tickets to watch with the mated, but fate has conspired against me, and instead Im going to my girlfriends aunts babyshower in the Bush.

"Peak for peak". I like that turn of phrase. Might have to rob it.

kingraf wrote: Im going to my girlfriends aunts babyshower in the Bush.

Is that a euphemism?

Take some minora blades  

Owen Franks out, Faumauina to start. That hands SA a huge advantage  . NZ will need to avoid scrums as much as possible and play an even more territorial game.

Gone - I wish it was! Her aunt really lives in the bush... on a plot of land. I should get the baby a Swiss Army knife, or a leatherman. Ever since the lady stopped travelling for work, Ive been going to family dinners, family weddings, family outings (to the bush, of course), and its not even my family!

GloriousEmpire wrote:Owen Franks out, Faumauina to start. That hands SA a huge advantage  . NZ will need to avoid scrums as much as possible and play an even more territorial game.

I agree and disagree. Franks was poor against pumas and scrum steadied eventually when both props were subbed. Problem is stamina for faumauina. Could work out well or could be poor if he runs out of puff after 30 mins....

Wyatt Crockett is the answer, but he has problems with putting his hand down which is one of Nigel O's pet peeves.

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:I think altitude is a misnomer.

It hasn't affected the All Blacks in the past.

How does it not affect the Boks? I presume they dont all live up mountains so they?

no they don't. hence me saying it is a misnomer.

If you consider the possible starting Xv.

9 of the starting XV is from Durban or Capetown.

Which town is in the mountain? Bloomfontein is it?

If you take the major Stadia in SA for rugby matches.

Loftus 1354 meters above sea level
Ellispark 1754 meters above sea level
Free state stadium 1399 meters above sea level
Newlands stadium sea level
Kingspark stadium sealevel
Nelson Mandela bay stadium sea level

Victor Ubogu, legendary England prop, famously struggled with the altitude in Durban;

http://metro.co.uk/2010/06/18/victor-ubogu-on-the-spot-399942/

To be fair to Victor, Durban is incredibly humid.

Yes as the excitement builds Towards this century's most important and defining sporting contest I've gone totally tabloid to celebrate.

Let's face it: the All Blacks pack has been under the kosh since the new scrum engagement rules were brought in. Pacific poachers NZ have based their game plan on mobile skillful homogenous players as though the sport on offer was rugby league. But now that hookers must hook, tight heads anchor and front rows shove frankly the plan has looked more ropey than a sealed lorry originating from Romania at a Dover customs inspection point. 

The latest front row injury, incurred during NZs latest scrum reversal against technically perfect, if lamentably foreign Argentina, has exposed the lack of depth in NZs tight five as ageing warhorses, the twin thugs Andrew Hore and his so-called Christian cohort Kevin Mealamu must now do the impossible of holding back the relentless tide of Bismark Du Plessis and his similarly scurrilously sidelined springbok sidekicks.

NZ have again put all their eggs the the back basket. And will rely on attempting to strike on the counter and on returning Richie McCaw to hypnotise Welsh whistler Nigel Owens into supplying rule book reprieve . 

Who will win? The good honest springboks with their simple honest working mans game? Or the fancy pants All Blacks with their mesmeric waves of obstruction and questionable commitment to contact?

Tabloid-level spelling and grammar definitely!

Spot on Cyril, another of your telling and undeniable quips getting to the core of the issues of the game. Well done.

what on earth does the article title even mean? just sounds like random key words

It's tabloidease for "the game will be won by All Blacks back line flair or SA forward dominance and set piece stability". Clash of styles. You see.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Spot on Cyril, another of your telling and undeniable quips getting to the core of the issues of the game. Well done.

You shouldn't feel too glum. It certainly wasn't as bad as your 'limericks'.

Glum? Why Cyril im positively man sausage a hoop old chum.

My limericks were awesome and your attempts at derision merely reinforce that fact.

Will Nonu's shoe come off and Dagarella go to the ball and the All Blacks live happily ever after?

And without the two ugly props ever knowing what the heck just happened.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Will Nonu's shoe come off and Dagarella go to the ball and the All Blacks live happily ever after?

Speaking of fairytales when do you think Wales will actually win a World Cup???