Lax All Black Pack Cracks But Shag Backs Dagg To Drag Match Back.

First topic message reminder :

Wow. Just wow. South Africa look to be in awesome form.

Granted Australian rugby is in its most miserable state for fifty years, but there is no disguising how intimidating  this Springbok side is.

The Boks have now married their power game with a rapier precision in the Back line and the experience to know when to switch modes. Add Morne Steyn's siege boot and back in form long range goal kicking and you have a serious unit that will be tough to beat. 

Normally poor tourists, South Africa easily outmuscled a fragile looking Australia and clinched a convincing win at the bastion of Australian resistance, the parochial Suncorp stadium.

In this kind of form I can see South Africa ending new Zealand's long run of success at Eden Park. Especially with captain Richie out injured and Dan Carter out of form.

Hats off to Heyneke Meyer. I was a detractor and I put my hand up and say I was wrong.

Most impressive is south Africa's command at the breakdown. Defensively they must have the best turn over rate in the rugby championship and on attack they can maintain pressure through numerous phases and patiently wait their chance to pounce.  Just awesome stuff.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Just think if NZ hadn't been denied their fourth try in the first match when Juan went unpunished for pulling back Ben smiths jersey, the tournament would be over.

Sad that NZ have been so unfairly hampered by lax refereeing.

I find it hilarious that you can lament an All Black being held back, when on the weekend Habana was called back with an open try line in front of him after Garces have already called advantage over and denied us a fourth try.

Then of course the Eden Park fiasco.

Amazing when the reasoning suits it works, but not when the reasoning favours another team.  

That Habana decision at the weekend was really poor officiating. SA really should have had that 4th try.

Loved the Kirchner try.

Biltong wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Just think if NZ hadn't been denied their fourth try in the first match when Juan went unpunished for pulling back Ben smiths jersey, the tournament would be over.

Sad that NZ have been so unfairly hampered by lax refereeing.

I find it hilarious that you can lament an All Black being held back, when on the weekend Habana was called back with an open try line in front of him after Garces have already called advantage over and denied us a fourth try.

Then of course the Eden Park fiasco.

Amazing when the reasoning suits it works, but not when the reasoning favours another team.  

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I mentioned the habana decision however the key difference is that in the habana case the referees "advantage over" call was premature and he actually got it right to call back to intercept no matter how unfair it seemed.  In te All Blacks case te call was not forthcoming late or not.

SA favorites, should play tests at Ellis Park all the time

All Blacks' record at Ellis Park

Lost 40-26, 2004
Lost 46-40, 2000
Won 35-32, 1997
Lost 32-22, 1996
Lost 15-12, 1995
Won 27-24, 1992
Lost 15-14, 1976
Lost 20-17, 1970
Lost 13-0, 1960
Lost 12-6, 1949
Won 7-6, 1928

As biltong said prior to the Eden park game, these historical stats mean nothing it's all about this weekend. 

It's attitude versus skill if you believe BT and Taylorman. It'll be interesting to see who comes out on top then.

I think the bok pack are ready to put in a big performance. In the first 20 when the teams had equal numbers it looked like the bok pack had the upper hand on scrums and lineouts and their rolling maul looked dangerous. All that was lost once Bismarcks cards came into effect.

They know that NZ were afraid of them at lineout time and when Bismarck was on the pitch he was very active come ruck time.

Then they have this Ellis Park hoodoo to contain.

It all counts, people say it doesn't matter but if you go in thinking even slightly that this is not going to be your day then often things these things come true.. its similar to why Friday the 13th has statistically more accidents then normal friday's... why, because people think bad things will happen, they're more jittery and thats when accidents occur.... or is it???

I disagree with you there FA. Not about the scrums but I think NZ were holding their own in the lineout and were actually getting on top in the physical battle. No mean feat against the Boks. I think even 15 on 15 NZ were still favourites as the SA defence was uncharacteristically weak and a few tackles were missed.

Is Joburg sweet as weather wise for the game?

New Zealand were favourites because it was their home ground.

The physical battle will be assessed this coming weekend.

Bismarck's physicality over the ball is amazing but with the return of the King he might not be as effective. However it's only one player. I expect Hore to start as his work over the ball is pretty damn solid as well.

I think the Boks are 5 point favourites. Especially as they're most likely steaming like our good mate Biltong. And rightfully so. You've just got to find a way to live with the Boks for the first 30 mins. Ride out the storm and take advantage of any errors that come by if they are too fired up. Though by Christ if accuracy comes with the level of intent we know will be there on Saturday it's going to take something special to stop them. I'm just happy NZ have a special team as if they fire then it can be done.

got your tin hat on Disney???

Na but I've got earplugs-I'll be in Longford this weekend for a mate's 30th and I reckon I'll be able to hear you lot screaming from there

This is the time when you give us a list of Afrikaans swear words and their translations so that we can understand what you're yelling about. Start off with poes naai moffie Bryce Lawrence...

I'm in South Africa in a fortnight too-gutted I couldn't afford to make the jaunt over to Jozi for this!

disneychilly wrote:I disagree with you there FA. Not about the scrums but I think NZ were holding their own in the lineout and were actually getting on top in the physical battle. No mean feat against the Boks. I think even 15 on 15 NZ were still favourites as the SA defence was uncharacteristically weak and a few tackles were missed.

Is Joburg sweet as weather wise for the game?

Agree some of the springbok tackling was woeful. Other linebreak stats drastically favoured NZ but this is also because te springboks insist on running into contact instead of space.

Unfortunately the game is more likely to be marred by let's say, over enthusiastic springbok tactics off the ball and accompanied by an inevitable reticence to punish it.

I expect to see habana and others back to their old tricks of running interference and instruction whilst pretending to chase kicks, late tackles, shoulder barging rucks and so forth. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Richie heavily targeted Dean Greyling style.

Is Nigel Owens et al up to it? I won't be surprised to see him and his homer nh cohorts penalise NZ out of the game to appease the home crowd.

you'll be surprised to hear that the All Blacks made less line breaks than the Boks thus far in the Rugby Championship.

The all Blacks however made more offloads in contact, 42 to 28.

Meter ran was very similar so far at 2400 for SA and just short of 2500 for NZ
Backlines ran similar meters at 1400 for SA and 1480 for NZ

Back line runs, SA 150 NZ was just short of that at 148.

This is from memory, I checked the stats earlier.

Tires scored for both teams on par as well.

NZ's defence however has been better, but they have a two try advantage to be negated for playing with 15 on 14.

Overall the statistics (whatever you want to read in them) is very similar.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Unfortunately the game is more likely to be marred by let's say, over enthusiastic springbok tactics off the ball and accompanied by an inevitable reticence to punish it.

I expect to see habana and others back to their old tricks of running interference and instruction whilst pretending to chase kicks, late tackles, shoulder barging rucks and so forth. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Richie heavily targeted Dean Greyling style.

Is Nigel Owens et al up to it? I won't be surprised to see him and his homer nh cohorts penalise NZ out of the game to appease the home crowd.

GE for once get over your WUMMING, it is fast becoming very stale.

The all Blacks play similar tactics with their forwards running a screen of up to four players to completely hide their backline moves.

they continuously play the offside line at the breakdown, and their pillars commit obstruction at every ruck.

now get over this nonsense and try to be a little mature for a change.

Biltong wrote:New Zealand were favourites because it was their home ground.

The physical battle will be assessed this coming weekend.

Biltong...you should know better than that. The ABs were faves because theyre the better side. They will be faves this weekend for the same reason. You dont need to throw up stats because the only ones that matter are those from Eden park. Do you really think this weekend is still a physical battle and thats somehow relevant to the result?

I don't. What will win it or lose it is the ability for the Bok backs to hold their own. Simple as that. Bok backs play better or on par with NZ...theyll win. Play worse, theyll lose...regardless of what happens up front. guarantee it.

I didn't bring up the physical battle Taylorman, other did, I merely suggested the physical battle will be assessed this weekend, why?

Because hopefully it will be 15 on 15.

I have never denied NZ is the better team, you are putting words in my mouth.

whats all this mutual respect guys??? You should know better than that.

Please refer to a standard England vs. Wales bickering thread before talking up your teams chances for the weekend in future.

I would like to ask our learned New Zealand supporters the following questions.

Has anyone here denied NZ is the best team in the world?

Has anyone here doubted the fact that they have been the best team in the world since the professional era began?

Do you believe New Zealand is so good that South Africa has no chance of beating them?

I am sure your answer to all three those questions will be no.

Hence, whether you believe you can beat us or not, the point is even the best team in the world gets beaten, even if they are the best team in the world, you are playing against the second best team, the team most likely to beat you.

would you agree with that?

So please, show a little humility, be as proud of your team as you can be, I am certainly proud of mine.

however, hold back a tad if the shoe fits. One thing you are not, is invincible.

LOL FA.

I'm worried about JDV and Serfontein. JDV's passing more and Serfontein has had huge wraps on him.

Neither NZ nor SA is good enough to survive a sub par performance against the other without defeat. Never has been and long may it continue.

Agree with Biltong hopefully it's 15 on 15 for the full 80. I expect NZ's backs to struggle in the first half against the Boks' rush D and physicality before working out how to exploit it. The Boks can play at a frenzied pace and sometimes lapses in concentration happen if you're that fired up. NZ has got to take advantage if those happen.

Crucial player: Aaron Smith. Kicking will be very much under scrutiny and the pack must protect him.

Springboks to storm Ellis Park. Change the title GE. It worked for us last time!

Hurry up and get this week done with. I can't wait for this game. 1600 kick off CET so enough time for me to get up and sneak breakfast in before the game.

Opening exchanges will be brutal. Whoever can keep discipline will be key as tempers will invariably fray in the scrums and rucks.

This will be a novel experience playing in the day and in dry conditions. All NZs games this year have had rain. Will we remember how to play with a dry ball. Maybe we need to ring the girls staying at the Playboy mansion for some advice.

As I said before mate Boks by 5 for me.

I reckon NZ are favourites everywhere they play.

EXCEPT Ellis Park.

If course SA have a chance. I just hope its a fair game and that the outcome is determined by players in the pitch and not referees or a lash back of recent history swinging a pendulum into the hands of the springbok forwards. I hope they're not given carte Blanche on an a la carte menu by laissez faire adjudication. That's no WUM. I hope were here after the match congratulating a dominant performance or game breaking piece of skill and not bemoaning more pitiful officials. Recent history if performance of officials in big games is not great and this is one of the biggest games in years. 

May the best team win.

Biltong, you're wrong in one aspect. The ABs are invincible... to IRB/referee repremanding!!!

Let's just hope Nigel Owens has been laying off the Welsh cakes.

Nigel Owens and I didn't see a knock on.

Nigel Who? Where?

Nigel.

Who's there.

Knock on.









Hmmmmm Welsh cakes.

I have always believed we are capable of beating the all Blacks in a fair contest, it is the game we build up and prepare for best.

Sometimes we have to step up a lot, and other times we have to step up a hell of a lot.

I long for the days between 2004 and 2009 when the record was 7 wins to us and 8 wins to the All BLacks.

Maybe Meyer will be the catalyst for another era of competitive rugby between us.

I'll say it. I don't like the guy. He is a bit too interested in being the centre of attention. He thinks he has to put wrongs to right. He is influenced by the crowd and a bit of a brown noser. Remember his ridiculous antics in RWC 2011 when he started referring every single kick to the tmo to make some kind of point?  

He was disgraceful last weekend, intervening to suggest endless yellow cards against Australia and I can't see him suddenly changing his behaviour this week. He is used to slow and ponderous nh club rugby and can't police the off side line. He penalises the attacking team at the ruck and the defending team at the scrum every time. It's limelight ing not refereeing.

GE, are you a journalist by trade?

What's wrong with a title?

"Boks vs All Blacks Ellispark"

GloriousEmpire wrote:If course SA have a chance. I just hope its a fair game and that the outcome is determined by players in the pitch and not referees or a lash back of recent history swinging a pendulum into the hands of the springbok forwards. I hope they're not given carte Blanche on an a la carte menu by laissez faire adjudication. That's no WUM. I hope were here after the match congratulating a dominant performance or game breaking piece of skill and not bemoaning more pitiful officials. Recent history if performance of officials in big games is not great and this is one of the biggest games in years. 

May the best team win.

Get your excuses in early...

Biggest game in years? It isn't the biggest game of the last 3 months to more than 50% of the rugby world.

Lets call it what it is, a very very long shot, and an all but glorious AB championship win, if SA pull off the unthinkable reffing mistakes will have absolutely nothing to do with it!

Biltong wrote:GE, are you a journalist by trade?

What's wrong with a title?

"Boks vs All Blacks Ellispark"

I would have said estate agent myself.

How interesting that Owens should be accused of being a limelight seeker. It's true, up to a point, but he is Howard Hughes when compared with the preening narcissism of someone like Steve Walsh, and tends to get more decisions right than that notable solipsist.

Refereeing standards have not kept pace with the increased professionalism of rugby players. Until a couple of years ago, Joubert stood out a mile as the premier ref in the game and he probably remains so, albeit a much more flawed leader than he once was. Bearing in mind the need for a neutral referee, Owens is arguably the best possible choice, with the caveat that the available field is lamentably weak.

Owens does have a weakness with the offside line, which should suit McCaw down to the ground, but he polices the battle in the tight better than most. I certainly wouldn't expect him to have the decisive influence over the game that Poite did a few weeks back, for which everyone should be grateful. Sadly, I expect very little in the way of praise to be directed Owens' way, even if he has an exemplary game. The way of the modern rugby world is that the referee will be wrong, whatever the result.

Reverse psychology is an important tool BB. GE has already sent off his SA appreciation thread to both sides.

Owens at least communicates during the game. Maybe too much. I remember a June test where NZ counter attacked and he audibly blasphemed before plodding down the field.

Disagree. I'd say SA with their physical rush defence benefit more from the lack of policing the offside line than NZ. A classic example is the 95 final.

fa0019 wrote:

Biltong wrote:GE, are you a journalist by trade?

What's wrong with a title?

"Boks vs All Blacks Ellispark"

I would have said estate agent myself.

My guess is a columnist for a journal or a broker of some sort.

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Biltong wrote:GE, are you a journalist by trade?

What's wrong with a title?

"Boks vs All Blacks Ellispark"

I would have said estate agent myself.

My guess is a columnist for a journal or a broker of some sort.

I heard someone say he was a banker. At least I think that's what they said.

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Biltong wrote:GE, are you a journalist by trade?

What's wrong with a title?

"Boks vs All Blacks Ellispark"

I would have said estate agent myself.

My guess is a columnist for a journal or a broker of some sort.

I heard someone say he was a banker. At least I think that's what they said.

I would say he's retired and spends his time annoying people in caravan parks and writing letters of complaint to neighbours whose dogs he suspects of crapping on his lawn.

Who will be the Springboks hooker this weekend? I know everyone thinks Bismark DuPlessis is the business and he is class but my preference would be Adriaan Strauss. Think he is the best around right now.

Boks need Bismarck.. with McCaw around they need a ruck specialist rather then a good ball caryring option.

That's the same approach NZ uses FA. Hore's the ruck specialist and Mealamu comes on and snipes late in the piece. The ABs' hooker selections are very much horses for courses.

yeah wait until 60 mins when the pitch is a little more open and then bring on a strong ball carrier... why I would favour Alberts as a bench option rather than a starter... come 50 mins he's useless, drops tackles and is ineffective... whats happens when you're 6'3 and 120kg.

So basically a South African version of Sione Lauaki but one that can catch.

I've got that same feeling of trepidation as when you have to "drop some friends off at the pool" in a public toilet and you walk to the only free cubicle only to realise a really really fat guy has just walked out of it.

disneychilly wrote:I've got that same feeling of trepidation as when you have to "drop some friends off at the pool" in a public toilet and you walk to the only free cubicle only to realise a really really fat guy has just walked out of it.

charming.

And another fat guy still in there with a half smile on his face.

Galted wrote:

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Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Biltong wrote:GE, are you a journalist by trade?

What's wrong with a title?

"Boks vs All Blacks Ellispark"

I would have said estate agent myself.

My guess is a columnist for a journal or a broker of some sort.

I heard someone say he was a banker. At least I think that's what they said.

---

I would say he's retired and spends his time annoying people in caravan parks and writing letters of complaint to neighbours whose dogs he suspects of crapping on his lawn.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/3633830/The-funny-thing-is-they-all-replied.html

Biltong wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Unfortunately the game is more likely to be marred by let's say, over enthusiastic springbok tactics off the ball and accompanied by an inevitable reticence to punish it.

I expect to see habana and others back to their old tricks of running interference and instruction whilst pretending to chase kicks, late tackles, shoulder barging rucks and so forth. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Richie heavily targeted Dean Greyling style.

Is Nigel Owens et al up to it? I won't be surprised to see him and his homer nh cohorts penalise NZ out of the game to appease the home crowd.

GE for once get over your WUMMING, it is fast becoming very stale.

The all Blacks play similar tactics with their forwards running a screen of up to four players to completely hide their backline moves.

they continuously play the offside line at the breakdown, and their pillars commit obstruction at every ruck.

now get over this nonsense and try to be a little mature for a change.

Biltong, I admire your posting and calm style but a little amused by your irritation with GE. There doesn't seem to be any comment from a Mod when he posts wum after wum aimed at England and the NH. I guess it's too close to home when he has a go at the Bokke right?

tigerleghorn wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Unfortunately the game is more likely to be marred by let's say, over enthusiastic springbok tactics off the ball and accompanied by an inevitable reticence to punish it.

I expect to see habana and others back to their old tricks of running interference and instruction whilst pretending to chase kicks, late tackles, shoulder barging rucks and so forth. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Richie heavily targeted Dean Greyling style.

Is Nigel Owens et al up to it? I won't be surprised to see him and his homer nh cohorts penalise NZ out of the game to appease the home crowd.

GE for once get over your WUMMING, it is fast becoming very stale.

The all Blacks play similar tactics with their forwards running a screen of up to four players to completely hide their backline moves.

they continuously play the offside line at the breakdown, and their pillars commit obstruction at every ruck.

now get over this nonsense and try to be a little mature for a change.

Biltong, I admire your posting and calm style but a little amused by your irritation with GE. There doesn't seem to be any comment from a Mod when he posts wum after wum aimed at England and the NH. I guess it's too close to home when he has a go at the Bokke right?

I don't read every thread mate, so I don't get what your issue is.

Biltong wrote:

tigerleghorn wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Unfortunately the game is more likely to be marred by let's say, over enthusiastic springbok tactics off the ball and accompanied by an inevitable reticence to punish it.

I expect to see habana and others back to their old tricks of running interference and instruction whilst pretending to chase kicks, late tackles, shoulder barging rucks and so forth. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Richie heavily targeted Dean Greyling style.

Is Nigel Owens et al up to it? I won't be surprised to see him and his homer nh cohorts penalise NZ out of the game to appease the home crowd.

GE for once get over your WUMMING, it is fast becoming very stale.

The all Blacks play similar tactics with their forwards running a screen of up to four players to completely hide their backline moves.

they continuously play the offside line at the breakdown, and their pillars commit obstruction at every ruck.

now get over this nonsense and try to be a little mature for a change.

Biltong, I admire your posting and calm style but a little amused by your irritation with GE. There doesn't seem to be any comment from a Mod when he posts wum after wum aimed at England and the NH. I guess it's too close to home when he has a go at the Bokke right?

I don't read every thread mate, so I don't get what your issue is.

No issue, just an observation. Sorry for any offence.

My opinions are my opinions. I apologise if they cause irritation, but the intent is to express a belief for discussion not to rile my fellow posters.

The springboks came to Auckland as favourites following their demolition of Australia despite a poor recent record against the All Blacks and an even worse record at Eden Park.

Who are the favourites this weekend?