HC, Pool 2, Round 1: Toulon v Glasgow Warriors

First topic message reminder :

Toulon v Glasgow Warriors
 
13 October 2013, 16:00 local (15:00 BST)
Stade Félix Mayol, Toulon
 
Live on France 2
 
Referee: Greg Garner (England)
Assistant referees: Andrew Small (England), Robin Goodliffe (England)
Television match official: Graham Hughes (England)
 
A. Matchday Squads
 
1. Toulon
From:
Forwards: S. Armitage, Botha, Castrogiovanni, Chiocci, Felsina, Fernandez Lobbe, Hayman, Masoe, Noirot, Orioli, Rossouw, J. Smith, Van Niekerk, Williams.
 
Backs: D. Armitage, Bastareaud, Claassens, Giteau, Mermoz, Michalak, Mitchell, D. Smith, Tuisova, Wilkinson.
  
2. Glasgow
 
 Name/DOB/Position/Height/Weight/Played/Points
 
[th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th]

Ascarate	Gabriel	20/10/87	Centre	1.85 m (6' 1")	94 kg (14 st 11 lb)	0	0
Bennett	Mark	03/02/93	Centre	1.83 m (6' 0")	89 kg (14 st 0 lb)	0	0
Brown	Fraser	20/06/89	Hooker	1.82 m (6' 0")	102 kg (16 st 0 lb)	0	0
Bryce	Kevin	07/09/88	Hooker	1.86 m (6' 1")	124 kg (19 st 7 lb)	0	0
Cusiter	Chris	13/06/82	Scrum half	1.78 m (5' 10")	84 kg (13 st 3 lb)	10	5
Dunbar	Alex	23/04/90	Centre	1.91 m (6' 3")	102 kg (16 st 0 lb)	3 (1)	0
Eddie	James	03/06/85	Back row	1.93 m (6' 4")	105 kg (16 st 7 lb)	4 (11)	0
Fusaro	Chris	21/07/89	Back row	1.80 m (5' 11")	94 kg (14 st 11 lb)	4 (8)	0
Grant	Ryan	08/10/85	Loose-Head Prop	1.85 m (6' 1")	109 kg (17 st 2 lb)	8 (7)	0
Gray	Jonny	14/03/94	Lock	1.98 m (6' 6")	119 kg (18 st 10 lb)	0	0
Hall	Doug	24/09/80	Hooker	1.83 m (6' 0")	104 kg (16 st 5 lb)	18 (9)	5
Harley	Robert	26/05/90	Back row	1.97 m (6' 6")	110 kg (17 st 4 lb)	13 (2)	5
Hogg	Stuart	24/06/92	Fullback	1.84 m (6' 0")	88 kg (13 st 12 lb)	10 (1)	5
Holmes	Tyrone	15/04/86	Back row	1.87 m (6' 2")	102 kg (16 st 0 lb)	0	0
Jackson	Ruaridh	12/02/88	Outside half	1.80 m (5' 11")	75 kg (11 st 11 lb)	14 (6)	109
Jericevich	Peter	13/02/88	Scrum half	1.78 m (5' 10")	80 kg (12 st 8 lb)	0	0
Kalman	Ed	07/12/82	Tight-Head Prop	1.88 m (6' 2")	119 kg (18 st 10 lb)	6 (19)	0
Kellock	Al	14/06/81	Lock	2.05 m (6' 9")	108 kg (17 st 0 lb)	35	10
Lamont	Sean	15/01/81	Centre/Wing	1.88 m (6' 2")	100 kg (15 st 10 lb)	12	40
Low	Moray	28/11/84	Tight-Head Prop	1.88 m (6' 2")	115 kg (18 st 1 lb)	25 (5)	0
MacArthur	Pat	27/04/87	Hooker	1.88 m (6' 2")	102 kg (16 st 0 lb)	8 (8)	0
Maitland	Sean	14/09/88	Fullback/Wing	1.89 m (6' 2")	97 kg (15 st 3 lb)	3 (1)	0
Matawalu	Niko	08/03/89	Scrum half	1.73 m (5' 8")	80 kg (12 st 8 lb)	2 (4)	10
McGuigan	Byron	20/08/89	Centre/Wing	1.93 m (6' 4")	92 kg (14 st 6 lb)	2 (1)	0
Murchie	Pete	07/01/86	Fullback	1.90 m (6' 3")	94 kg (14 st 11 lb)	9 (5)	0
Nakarawa	Leone	04/02/88	Lock	1.99 m (6' 6")	109 kg (17 st 2 lb)	0	0
Pyrgos	Henry	09/07/89	Scrum half	1.78 m (5' 10")	80 kg (12 st 8 lb)	5 (7)	5
Reid	Gordon	04/03/87	Loose-Head Prop	1.88 m (6' 2")	117 kg (18 st 5 lb)	2 (4)	0
Ryder	Tom	21/02/85	Lock	1.96 m (6' 5")	105 kg (16 st 7 lb)	5 (8)	0
Seymour	Tommy	01/07/88	Wing	1.83 m (6' 0")	95 kg (14 st 13 lb)	8	5
Strauss	Josh	23/10/86	Back row	2.00 m (6' 7")	114 kg (17 st 13 lb)	5	10
Swinson	Tim	17/02/87	Lock	1.93 m (6' 4")	111 kg (17 st 6 lb)	4 (2)	0
van der Merwe	DTH	28/04/86	Wing	1.82 m (6' 0")	92 kg (14 st 6 lb)	11 (1)	15
Vernon	Richie	07/07/87	Back row	1.96 m (6' 5")	102 kg (16 st 0 lb)	11 (3)	0
Weir	Duncan	10/05/91	Outside half	1.76 m (5' 9")	94 kg (14 st 11 lb)	6 (3)	64
Welsh	Jon	13/10/86	Tight-Head Prop	1.85 m (6' 1")	123 kg (19 st 5 lb)	14 (3)	0
Wight	Scott	05/11/85	Outside half	1.91 m (6' 3")	87 kg (13 st 9 lb)	1 (4)	12
Yanuyanutawa	Jerry	10/04/85	Loose-Head Prop	1.82 m (6' 0")	110 kg (17 st 4 lb)	0	0

 
B. Heineken Cup Statistics
 
1. Toulon
 

Played	16
Wins	12
Draws	0
Losses	4
Total Points For	415
Total Points Against	289
Total Tries For	40
Total Tries Against	25
Total Conversions For	31
Total Conversions Against	19
Total Penalty Goals For	48
Total Penalty Goals Against	42
Total Drop Goals For	3
Total Drop Goals Against	0

 

Most Appearances	15 (Jonny Wilkinson)
Top Points Scorer	178 (Jonny Wilkinson)
Top Try Scorer	4 (Delon Armitage)
Biggest Win	62 - 0 (v Sale Sharks 2012)
Heaviest Defeat	18 - 45 (v Munster Rugby 2010)
Most Consecutive Wins	5
Most Consecutive Defeats	2
Most Points In A Match	62 (v Sale Sharks 2012)
Most Tries In A Match	9 (v Sale Sharks 2012)
Most Conversions In A Match	7 (v Sale Sharks 2012)
Most Penalty Goals In A Match	7 (v Saracens 2013)
Most Drop Goals In A Match	1 (v Munster Rugby 2010)
Highest Attendance	55000
Total Home Attendance	305728

 
2. Glasgow
 

Played	85
Wins	26
Draws	2
Losses	57
Total Points For	1665
Total Points Against	2405
Total Tries For	159
Total Tries Against	275
Total Conversions For	112
Total Conversions Against	182
Total Penalty Goals For	210
Total Penalty Goals Against	212
Total Drop Goals For	7
Total Drop Goals Against	10

 

Most Appearances	41 (Gordon Bulloch)
Top Points Scorer	388 (Tommy Hayes)
Top Try Scorer	10 (Tommy Hayes)
Biggest Win	33 - 11 (v Gloucester Rugby 2009)
Heaviest Defeat	19 - 90 (v Leicester Tigers 1997)
Most Consecutive Wins	3
Most Consecutive Defeats	13
Most Points In A Match	50 (v Bourgoin 2006)
Most Tries In A Match	7 (v Bourgoin 2006)
Most Conversions In A Match	6 (v Bourgoin 2006)
Most Penalty Goals In A Match	7 (v Cardiff Blues 2001)
Most Drop Goals In A Match	1 (v Benetton Treviso 1998)
Highest Attendance	18720
Total Home Attendance	489762

 
C. Teams:
 
1. Toulon

 
15. Delon Armitage
14. Josua Tuisova
13. Maxime Mermoz
12. Matthew Giteau
11. David Smith
10. Jonny Wilkinson (capt)
9. Michael Claassens

1. Emmanuel Felsina
2. Jean-Charles Orioli
3. Martin Castrogiovanni
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Ali Williams
6. Juan Fernandez Lobbe
7. Joe van Niekerk
8. Chris Masoe

16. Benjamin Noirot
17. Xavier Chiocci
18. Carl Hayman
19. Steffon Armitage
20. Mathieu Bastareaud
21. Drew Mitchell
22. Frederic Michalak
23. Danie Rossouw
 
2. Glasgow
 
 
15. Sean Maitland
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Mark Bennett
12. Alex Dunbar
11. Niko Matawalu
10. Ruaridh Jackson
9. Henry Pyrgos

1. Ryan Grant
2. Dougie Hall
3. Jon Welsh
4. Jonny Gray
5. Al Kellock (Captain)
6. Tim Swinson
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Josh Strauss

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Moray Low
18. Ed Kalman
19. James Eddie
20. Richie Vernon
21. Duncan Weir
22. Byron McGuigan
23. DTH van der Merwe
 
D. Parliamo Glasgow:
 
Alphabetty Spaghetti - D.T.H. van der Merwe, wing
Angel - Gabriel Ascarate, centre
Angela - Jon Welsh, prop
Barry - Byron McGuigan, wing
Big Boab - (see Ginger Tackle Monster, the)
Big Mike - (see Coo, the)
Big Naka - Leone Nakarawa, lock/loosie
Bluto - Josh Strauss, loosie/no.8
Centre, the - (see Lesser Messiah, the)
Coo, the - Michael Cusack, prop
Cooseetah - (see Cus)
Cus - Chris Cusiter, scrum half
DTH - (see Alphabetty Spaghetti)
Flippy - (see Toonie)
Fozzy - Christopher Fusaro, loosie
Furra Lineeeee - Peter Horne, centre
Ginger Tackle Monster, the - Rob Harley, loosie
Guns - Tim Swinson, lock
Henners - Henry Pyrgos, scrum half
Hoggy - Stuart Hogg, full back/wing/centre
Ickle Jon - Jonny Gray, lock
Jedi - James Eddie, loosie
Lesser Messiah, the - Richie Vernon, loosie/no.8
Mark of Nazareth - (see Messiah, the)
Meatball, the - Duncan Weir, fly half
Messiah, the/ - Mark Bennett, centre
Niko - Nikola Matawalu, scrum half
Niko's Mate - Jerry Yanuyanutawa, prop
No Maits - Sean Maitland, wing
Rhubarb - Ruaridh Jackson, fly half
Ruck Inspector, the - Alastair Kellock, lock
Schlong - Sean Lamont, centre/wing
Sherlock - Tyrone Holmes, loosie
Shrek - Gordon Reid, prop
Toonie - Gregor Peter John Townsend MBE, head coach
Wee P - Pat MacArthur, hooker
Weegie from Fiji, the - (see Niko)

cringeworthy commentator

Glasgow are one of the best rucking teams in the league - how are they getting absolutely dominated?

To take 1 point from Toulon is still a good result.

Toulon switched back on now, giving Glasgow nothing at the breakdown.
Looks like one points for Glasgow

because they have not adapted well to a ref who is allowing a very loose interpretation of on your feeet and hands in ruck. Not committing enough players as well

Classic French attitude. Toulon stopped caring as soon as they got the bonus point. They know they'll win the pool, it's not important what happens with the teams below them.

splenetic wrote:Classic French attitude.  Toulon stopped caring as soon as they got the bonus point.  They know they'll win the pool, it's not important what happens with the teams below them.

Well at least there's something French about them

I think it's fair to say Exeter and the Blues are likely to be on the end of similar results - a 4 try bp is a pretty good result

The truth is that toulon has no answer to glasgow pace in the 2nd half... Roussow entrance didnt help, he's clearly lost and unfit.

Toulon showing who is in charge at the end.

Baws, there goes my +20 point bet!

GLove39 wrote:

IronMike wrote:Feel like this is some déjà vu from the Exeter Blues game

except we're doing it against 15 rather than 13

Rub it in!  

IronMike wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

IronMike wrote:Feel like this is some déjà vu from the Exeter Blues game

except we're doing it against 15 rather than 13

Rub it in!  

Sorry  

GLove39 wrote:

IronMike wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

IronMike wrote:Feel like this is some déjà vu from the Exeter Blues game

except we're doing it against 15 rather than 13

Rub it in!  

Sorry  

And we've got to play Toulon next week!

Only conceding 50 would be a blessing at this point.

cakeordeath wrote:How on earth does the ref think that Toulon player was supporting his own weight.

Lost count how many times Fernandez lobbe did it.

Glasgow can still get out of the group as best losers can they not? Need to collect bonus points and beat toulon in Glasgow

VinceWLB wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:How on earth does the ref think that Toulon player was supporting his own weight.

Lost count how many times Fernandez lobbe did hit.

It wa obvious from early on t he ref had a loose interpretation of this. toulon merely adapted better.

Well that was bracing. Positives to take from the second half and will take the point and run but that first half gulf was incredible.
Good thing is I don't see either of the other teams getting anything against them

TJ wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:How on earth does the ref think that Toulon player was supporting his own weight.

Lost count how many times Fernandez lobbe did hit.

It wa obvious from early on t he ref had a loose interpretation of this.  toulon merely adapted better.

Yeah that was a top 14 kind of refereeing (where rules aren't applied properly) not pro 12.

That said first 2 penalties against Glasgow's scrum were very quick and based on reputation and not what really happenned.

And Glasgow are top of the Rabo?!

Trevor40 wrote:And Glasgow are top of the Rabo?!

Yeah and they showed in the 2nd half what they can do despite the £30 million difference in the cost of the respective 23's (and with their 9 not playing on the wing).

Don't feed the troll. Ignore them and they will get tired of being ignored. report the posts instead. do not engage with them

TJ wrote:Glasgow can still get out of the group as best losers can they not?  Need to collect bonus points and beat toulon in Glasgow

Glasgow can theoretically still win the group if they take the winning BP at every remaining game, they would of course need to absolutely thump Toulon at home and concede no tries but it is possible.

Starting away to Toulon was always a big ask, there is no reason why they cannot beat the Blues and Exeter home and away. While the result was bad today, to go in at HT with the deficit and to rally the way they did in the second half shows the class they have, many teams would have had their heads too far down. Also, we are playing Toulon at home mid-Jan, that has to be a good thing when coming up against a team of ageing legends who are used to playing and training in the South of France.

I do think toonie made a mistake with the selection tho. Niko should have strated at 9 and DTH should have been on from the start. Also not sure about swinson at 6

TJ wrote:I do think toonie made a mistake with the selection tho.  Niko should have strated at 9 and DTH should have been on from the start.  Also not sure about swinson at 6

No disrespect to Swinson but i thought he was very poor at blindside.

And yeah not playing DTH who is Glagow's best back is criminal.

Still one point away to Toulon isn't to be sniffed at.

I think that game goes to show how badly Glasgow miss Cusak, he is a scrummaging machine - neither Kalman, Low or Welsh are up to his standard come scrum time. In fact, against that team, I think the Glasgow team as a whole were a little underpowered.

Pleased how Ruaridh Jackson played, I have been a critic but he has started this season well. Toonie has to start Matawalu at 9 in the big games, he is so influential.

Nico should always be the first name on the team sheet at 9, he is simply a different class of player from the alternative choices I feel. I'd like to see what proportion of Glasgow's tries are scored when Nico is at 9, most of them I would guess.

Swinson is a lock normally is he not?

EST wrote:I think that game goes to show how badly Glasgow miss Cusak, he is a scrummaging machine - neither Kalman, Low or Welsh are up to his standard come scrum time.  In fact, against that team, I think the Glasgow team as a whole were a little underpowered.

I have said Glasgow could miss the QF because of Cusack's absence alone, he is just a monster.
That said Grant on the other side of the scrum was giving Casto all sorts of problems so the scrum was always going to be wheeling.

TJ wrote:Swinson is a lock normally is he not?

He seemed less visible at 6 than he normally does at lock, Harley should have played in this game.

TJ wrote:Swinson is a lock normally is he not?

Yes he is, and a very good one at it.

Looked lost on the pitch today and made some knocks on which is unlike him.

It could be a vital one point... Target them at home and 10 points against Cardiff. You're still in it, chin up.

Hats off to Toulon, they looked unstoppable.

DTH VDM = that IS ALL I WILL Say

The Saint wrote:It could be a vital one point... Target them at home and 10 points against Cardiff. You're still in it, chin up.

Hats off to Toulon, they looked unstoppable.

Surely best runners up is still more than a possiblity? if Toulouse beat Sarries twice then a best runners up may not even come from that pool.

Before today's match we all recognised that Toulon rarely lose at home. (They seldom concede four tries at home either.)
The thing that hasn't changed is the reality that
(a) we can beat Cardiff home and away
(b) we can beat Exeter home and away.
(c) Toulon are not as infallible away from home, and may well slip up somewhere
(d) we finish the group with them at Scotstoun.
If we nail four wins that's us on 17 points, minimum, 21 maximum. Even with four more bonus point wins Toulon are then on 25 points.
So, it is feasible that we go into the final match at home and it's a winner takes all scenario. That would be worth watching don't you think? We're not dead yet.

That was some first half performance from Toulon!

Fair play to Glasgow for getting some pride back but (like the Exeter game) it was all over at half-time.

Good to see Jonny pulling the strings for Toulon again. Hope it's only a minor injury.

Some good rugby this weekend though I'm not sure the defense coaches will be too happy.

Makes me despair that Townsend feels for the first time this season he can play specialists out of position. It was the thing that I thought he would never, ever do because he would have seen first hand standing next to Andy Robinson that this kind of thing fails time and time again. Nathan Hines at 6, anyone?
 
I've got no problem with us losing to a team as good as Toulon. What I mind about is that the coach did not give us every chance to win it (injuries notwithstanding). Harley should have been playing, Swinson is absolutely not a blindside and it showed. DTH is the club's top try scorer. He saved the game against Ulster with his break. Stop dabbling, Toonie. Leave him there.
 
Amazing how Hogg as first choice goalkicker being injured has impacted the team so much. This is the only reason Pyrgos was on the field and when Niko was moved back to the position where he is most influential, the results showed. We absolutely have to sacrifice Pyrgos for Matawalu and stick DTH back where he belongs with Maitland at 15 and Seymour on the other wing. If Jackson is not comfortable goalkicking, then let Bennett do it or we simply have to play Weir. We cannot have passengers at this level and it takes me back to our comments on the Glasgow boards at the start of the season - we are a world class 10 away from being truly competitive.
 
Madness not to go back to the team structure and game plan that's put us where we are in the league and which (prior to us dozing off against Zebre for 20 minutes) saw us not concede a try for the best part of 4 hours of game time. We will see what Townsend is made of with his next selection. He tried this and it failed. Is he a big enough individual to realise that he neutered some of his best players tonight?

I understand the unwillingness to play Niko at 9 from the start. he did nearly cost a try with a wild pass once he came to 9 and will always be high risk.

HGowever you shold play your best 15 and the best kicker on the field takes the kicks.

Jackson should not be the kicker - he plays better when he is not

True TJ - but we all know that Niko was the difference between winning and losing a number of games last year - too many incidences to count - tearing the ball away from Northampton and romping in and stealing the ball from Pienaar's feet to set up Seymour to score with a backhand pass against Ulster are just two that spring to mind. This is only his second professional season, remember and his judgement will improve as time goes on. They mentioned in the Herald today how funny it looks every time Kellock (12 inches taller than Niko) gives him a telling off.Niko holds the Rabo record for the number of consecutive MOM awards in a season with 4. Why mess with that?
 
Jackson is a much more difficult problem because in a great many respects he was very good tonight. Can we really drop him and give Weir a chance?

I would have put NIko at 9. weir at 10, swinson at 5, Harley at 6 and used Gray as a sub

Jackson might not be a world class kicker but he's great at running the ball. Surely another back bar hogg can kick penalties?

The Niko debate is set to be as long running as the Dan Parks brilliant/rubbish argument.
I watched the game with Bigson and four neutrals. They couldn't believe how defensively appalling Niko was on the wing. Then they couldn't believe some of the things he did at 9. Good and not so good. He made one of DTH's tries with a sideways drift from the ruck and a inside pass that was so quick I had to replay it so they could see how good it was. That created the gap for the try. the jury's still out on the cost-benefit analysis. Will he win us more games than he loses? Up to a certain standard yes, easily. At the top level? I'm not so sure.
On the other hand Henners may not win us too many games but he wont cost us too many either. Does Toonie pick one 9 and stick or continue with horses for course?

whocares wrote:Jackson might not be a world class kicker but he's great at running the ball. Surely another back bar hogg can kick penalties?

 
Yes, Bennett is the 45m+ option and I think should be given the job from closer range too.
 
As an aside - whilst I'm moaning, I see that they have just posted the Toulon-Glasgow 'highlights' on the ERC website - managing to only show the Toulon tries and none of the Glasgow ones.

whocares wrote:Jackson might not be a world class kicker but he's great at running the ball. Surely another back bar hogg can kick penalties?

I think Weir is better. Just had lousey luck / unfair selection for two seasons.

The thing is i can understand not playing Niko at 9 but playing Pyrgos there, WTF?

And please don't mess with players position, the props, Niko and now Swinson? waiting for Vernon to replace Dunbar  

What about Bennett taking the kicks at goal.

VinceWLB wrote:The thing is i can understand not playing Niko at 9 but playing Pyrgos there, WTF?

And please don't mess with players position, the props, Niko and now Swinson? waiting for Vernon to replace Dunbar  

What about Bennett taking the kicks at goal.

Who else? cus? I think Pyrgos played for goal kicking tho

TJ wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:The thing is i can understand not playing Niko at 9 but playing Pyrgos there, WTF?

And please don't mess with players position, the props, Niko and now Swinson? waiting for Vernon to replace Dunbar  

What about Bennett taking the kicks at goal.

Who else? cus?  I think Pyrgos played for goal kicking tho

Yeah Cus, imo he has done pretty well since his comeback.
I know they played Pyrgos for kicking duties but come on he is no Jonny Wilkinson and Bennett could do a similar job.
Pyrgos was extremely poor as a 9.

For those who haven't seen the tries (avec Glasgow's), then click here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EJq2MSEZ4Y

George Carlin wrote:

whocares wrote:Jackson might not be a world class kicker but he's great at running the ball. Surely another back bar hogg can kick penalties?

 
Yes, Bennett is the 45m+ option and I think should be given the job from closer range too.
 
As an aside - whilst I'm moaning, I see that they have just posted the Toulon-Glasgow 'highlights' on the ERC website - managing to only show the Toulon tries and none of the Glasgow ones.

After my email complaint to ERC about this, I got a nice email from some bloke called John at ERC Communications who apologised and said that a re-edited set of highlights will be uploaded this morning.  
 
The great thing is that I am not making any of that up.

GC, your influence knows no bounds