Euro Division LXVII

First topic message reminder :

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
The Enrique & J from 5ive League
 
FC WHU Do You Think You Are - Gregers
 
Bilbao - Afro
 
Would you dance, if Ajax you to dance? - Sodhat
 
Southampton FC - Marky
 
PSV - CF
 
Sport Club Corinthians Paulista - Nando                                                                              
 
Lille - Trebs
 
Glad t'be bach - Hero
 
FC Basel - Viva
 
FC ZwagAtletico - Zinedine_Ze_Zebra
 
The Nodge - Olly
 
Fool 'em FC - Azzy

Azzt I worked it out you're a WUM and your whole 606 career has been to WUM people.

Liverpool had two chances Henderson shot which went wide and Moses header which De Gea matched with a save. I don't see where Liverpool bossed the game, United had the better of the opening Liverpool came into the game but like a man with no Winkle they struggled to penetrate us. 

I don't see how that is a bossing at all, United had a plan Liverpool looked lost and it showed.

Azzy wrote:Carrick has not performed well for England. Ever. He is not up to scratch. Therefore Gerrard is, and will always be, better at the holding CM position than Carrick. You might not like it, you might dream of Carrick playing the role, but he's had more than 20 chances at doing so and failed miserably each and every time. He is a proven failure at the very top level, and one day you will have to face that sad fact.

This just doesnt even make sense Azzy. No substance to your argument. Proven failure at the top level....... Errrr i actually don't know what to say. There is nothing to say. can anyone else explain or respond to that??
You just say stuff & exaggerate it to make your point seem valid. You say Carrick hasnt preformed for England & Gerrard has so that makes Gerrard better than what Carrick does so consistently for his club week in week out. You take no notice of tactics of a system player, you just lay blame on a player & say their rubbish. Your one dimensional thinking makes it impossible to have an actual discussion. Ive tried to look from different angels, Carricks personal performances to the England system & tactical set up but non of that matters does it. In your eyes you could play Lionel Messi in goal, watch him concede goal after goal & he would be a proven failure.
I'm ending this discussion here as you cant actually have one with you. So whatever you think is right & Im happy to agree with you.

By the way, Champions League football each season is a higher level then what England national team reaches.

Azzy wrote:On Sturridge, I assume this means that players cannot ever play their old positions? So now that Sturridge has played 6 games as a striker, he's now a striker for the rest of his career?

Sturridge hasnt played in the AM position duing his career. Hes played more than 6 games as a striker, most his career has been as a striker. When at Chelsea he spoke up about wanting to play in his position as a striker. He has always has been a striker so I dont really get what your talking about. But tell you what, just say it more aggressively, add some CAPS & it will become a valid & correct point  

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Azzt I worked it out you're a WUM and your whole 606 career has been to WUM people.

Liverpool had two chances Henderson shot which went wide and Moses header which De Gea matched with a save. I don't see where Liverpool bossed the game, United had the better of the opening Liverpool came into the game but like a man with no Winkle they struggled to penetrate us. 

I don't see how that is a bossing at all, United had a plan Liverpool looked lost and it showed.

You got me. I wrote the match reviews for the BBC, Guardian and Telegraph. I fiddle the OPTA stats. I'm Keyser Soze.

United won the game because they scored off one chance. Liverpool bossed possession, and large spells of the game, but couldn't cut through your defence. Just because they lost 1-0 doesn't mean they didn't boss you, they did. And all three of those media pieces say that Liverpool dominated the game.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

sodhat wrote:

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

sodhat wrote:Due to Olly being at school I then suggest that we give tactics to someone else to post up?

It's one of two options then:

1. Someone else posts tactics
2. We move back to Fridays

I don't care either way, but I can't take tactics.

If we move it back to Friday, then the tactics don't go up until Sunday because he's busy. The move was motivated primarily to ensure something is up on Friday as the latest.

But if they're not going up on Friday, and Saturdays are a no-no, then it's still Sunday, only we've lost a day.

What it also means is that before, we all got Sunday and Monday to vote, now we have Saturday and Sunday (if we're lucky) - I don't really get online at weekends, so to not lose a goal, I have to lose half an hour of my weekend voting, rather than doing it on Monday.

If we had tactics on the Friday, I could vote on the Friday.

And this isn't having a go at Olly, at all, it's just this hasn't exactly worked out well has it?

Olly's going to get them up during the day today. Where it was during the day in Sunday, by moving it forward 1 day, we have gained two days to vote.

And on the Liverpool/Man Utd thing, can we just agree that the United fans say Liverpool didn't boss it, the non-United fans and the media do

Afro wrote:
Olly's going to get them up during the day today. Where it was during the day in Sunday, by moving it forward 1 day, we have gained two days to vote.

And on the Liverpool/Man Utd thing, can we just agree that the United fans say Liverpool didn't boss it, the non-United fans and the media do

No. Where would be the fun in not arguing?

Zebs, I'll make this really simple so even you can understand:

1. International football is the highest form of the game. All of the world's best players take part. Players playing represent the best players from each country. The fact that Carrick struggles to get in the team, and when he does he plays badly, proves that at this very highest level of the footballing pyramid, he's short on ability. CL football is not a higher level than international football. Bayern Munich would not beat Spain, nor would United beat Germany.

2. All Carrick does is pass the ball. Gerrard and Lampard have done that for 12 years. If Carrick is so good, why hasn't he made a CM position for himself? If he's so good, and so great at what he does, why isn't he in that side? Successive England managers have had the option of making Carrick their main man. They've all declined to do so, because there are better footballers to call upon. United's struggles this season aren't down to Carrick - he's been as good as ever. But the great United players - Scholes, Giggs, Keane, Beckham, RVN etc - they've all kept United going even when the rest of the side has been playing poorly. Carrick isn't the kind of player who can lift a team from mediocrity to greatness, or to lift himself from the doldrums with one pass. He's either 8/10 or 2/10, no exceptions.

3. This discussion is over when Afro says it is, let's face it

4. Sturridge has played the majority of his career at LW. It's only recently that he's made the transition to ST a more permanent one, because his skillset is such that he is adaptable. As are all the great players. Rooney, Pele, Beckenbauer, Maurizio Taricco. If you don't think Sturridge can play AM, then you really need to go watch him play. He'd thrive there.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:And all three of those media pieces say that Liverpool dominated the game.

You may want to read them. Non of them say they bossed the match or even close to it. All three indicate Liverpool had sustained periods of possession which technically isn't really bossing/dominating a game.

Just shout it louder & it will become true though

God your all such petty miserable Meat trombone soloist today. You can boss a game as much as you want all people care about in the record book is the score and that was....

Manchester United 1-0 Liverpool

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:You may want to read them. Non of them say they bossed the match or even close to it. All three indicate Liverpool had sustained periods of possession which technically isn't really bossing/dominating a game.

Just shout it loader & it will become true though  

So to win football matches, England apparently have to become a passing side. But when Liverpool do it, and dominate possession against United, it doesn't matter? My God, United fans really cannot accept being second best, not even for one second

You clearly can't accept that you won a game despite being second best. I'd suggest taking a leaf out of Fergie's book, he won league titles with second and third best teams!

Azzy of course a team who loses can boss a game but I don't think you really understand what it means. United were comfortable all day (I'll talk like azzy now) even if the game lasted for 300 billion years United would never concede, the shots on target Liverpool had our keeper matched them so that must mean de gea bossed Liverpool because he stopped them scoring. Liverpool lacked the ball to cut Us open they didn't know what to do with the ball.

Fernando wrote:God your all such petty miserable Meat trombone soloist today. You can boss a game as much as you want all people care about in the record book is the score and that was....

Manchester United 1-0 Liverpool

It was the league cup. No-one cares  

Well then stop f***ing talking about it and run a game of sheep.

Not a chance

Fernando wrote:Well then stop f***ing talking about it and run a game of sheep.

You run it you unemployed, Welsh loving so and so.

Answers to Nando by 1553:

1. Who bossed the recent league cup game between United and Liverpool?
2. Who is better for England, Carrick or Gerrard?
3. Name an England player nominated for the Euro 2012 team of the tournament
4. Name a title-winning side that finished outside of the top 4 the following season (2013-'14 season does not count)
5. Name as many positions as you can where Daniel Sturridge could be effective from
6. Name an England RB who can defend (trick question, there aren't any)
7. Who should be the next England manager: Zebs, Viva, or Michael Carrick's dad
8. Name an England CM who has received a Ballon D'Or vote during his career.

Such is a typical day in the league

1. International football is the highest form of the game. All of the world's best players take part.

Not true. There is lots of the worlds most highly rated past & present players who haven't made any significant impact at international level.

Azzy wrote:Bayern Munich would not beat Spain, nor would United beat Germany.

Bayern actually probably would beat Spain. If you go on Spain's style, very similar tika taka to Barca style. Go on how Bayern played Barca in the CL last season with great power & aggression to tun them over & demolish them Bayern would beat Spain.

He's either 8/10 or 2/10, no exceptions.

 Once again you make no sense.

Sturridge has played the majority of his career at LW. It's only recently that he's made the transition to ST a more permanent one

No he hasnt. He played youth level at striker. England youth he was a striker, him & Welback were partners. I really dont know what your on about.

If Carrick is so good, why hasn't he made a CM position for himself?

Hes only really stepped his game up & risen in the last 2/3 season.

Successive England managers have had the option of making Carrick their main man. They've all declined to do so, because there are better footballers to call upon.

Err that has nothing to do with my point. Ive said once today if Carrick does not fit the England setup & tactical play he has no need to be in the team/squad. To answer you, different managers have different visions, styles of play. Also the above, Carrick's rise has only been the last few seasons.

All Carrick does is pass the ball.

OK so all the factual stats & well documented literature regarding his ability in the holding role highlighting his interception rate as one of his biggest strenghts better than most in the prem (if not the best) is all just made up fiction & has no relevance to the holding role.

Just cause you say there is better it doesnt make it true. You are happy to slate Carrick & say because this player is better Carrick is rubbish but you fail to look at any differences from job role to the team set up & tactical game from club & country.

The end of the day you cant ignore the stats that come from Carricks week in week out play. What I've said all along is he is good at his job role, one of the best at it & there are clear statistics to show he is good at what he does. I said at the start of this discussion if that type of role is wanted by Woy for England Carrick should be playing it.
You just want to wum with your on dimensional thinking, no discussion just what I say is right, your wrong. You havent really addressed my point, youve just veered off on a rant.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:So to win football matches, England apparently have to become a passing side. But when Liverpool do it, and dominate possession against United, it doesn't matter? My God, United fans really cannot accept being second best, not even for one second

You clearly can't accept that you won a game despite being second best. I'd suggest taking a leaf out of Fergie's book, he won league titles with second and third best teams!

Im confused, I made an interpretation of three articles. Where did I say that?? Stop making things up Azzy. Your not even resoting to twisting word, your just making stuff up.

It's Friday everyone's blood pressure is high we all want to go out.

My my, quite the list!

1. You make no sense. Name one highly rated player, past or present, who hasn't made a significant impact at international level.

2. You make no sense. Spain's team includes better players than Barca's. Including Bayern's own Javi Martinez. Spain are far more incisive than Barca too, so their style is different.

3. You make no sense. Carrick is either great or atrocious, he never has an average game.

4. Ashley Cole played as striker at youth level, maybe we should try him up front with Rooney?

5. The clamour for Carrick to play for England has been there since he was about 20, don't give me that nonsense.

6. How does Carrick not 'fit' the England set up? All he has to do is pass a football. It's really not hard, if you have the requisite talent. Also the above.

7. Okay, I neglected to mention that people run into him sometimes. Personally if I'm faced with Rio and Vidic, I'm taking my chances at getting past Carrick.

8. There is no difference to Carrick's club role and the role he'd play for England. It's a midfield role. Some tackling, some running, some passing. He does all of that for United. The reason he doesn't do it for England is because he's proven over the course of his international career that he's not good enough to do it for England.

9. Your point is basically that Carrick is one-dimensional, can only play if he's 80 yards away from the opposition goal, and if he's sat alongside two CBs for protection. I think England can do better than that.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:So to win football matches, England apparently have to become a passing side. But when Liverpool do it, and dominate possession against United, it doesn't matter? My God, United fans really cannot accept being second best, not even for one second

Im confused, I made an interpretation of three articles. Where did I say that?? Stop making things up Azzy. Your not even resoting to twisting word, your just making stuff up.[/quote]10.I never said you said the thing about England. But everyone else in the world is saying it.

Roy Keane, Gareth Bale, Ryan Biggs, Denis Law, George Best come to mind.

Enough with the debates nobody else cares, its Friday. Let's kiss and make up.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:It's Friday everyone's blood pressure is high we all want to go out.

SHUT UP VIVA! MY BLOOD PRESSURE IS FINE.

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Roy Keane, Gareth Bale, Ryan Biggs, Denis Law, George Best come to mind.

Which of those hasn't made an impaxt at international level? Presumably Ryan Biggs as I haven't heard of him.

They have all made an impact, but played in poor teams and therefore their success wasn't the same as at club level. But impact and success are different

Are you still talking about who "bossed " the game between United and Pool?  

No

I think they've stopped arguing and taken it to the bedroom.

Messi. For the best player in the world he hasn't really made an impact for Argentina. Ronaldo too Portugal. Neither have led there nations to glory.

Neither won anything, agreed

But Ronaldo has played over 100 times for Portugal and scored 43 goals. Messi 83 games and 37 goals.

That is still quite an impact

Afro wrote:Neither won anything, agreed

But Ronaldo has played over 100 times for Portugal and scored 43 goals. Messi 83 games and 37 goals.

That is still quite an impact

Exactly. Johan Cruyff never won the world cup, I suppose he's rubbish now...

Just face it. Carrick doesn't have the ability to play for England. He's got 29 caps now, but not one of those 29 caps was an outstanding performance. I can't remember one single assist in an England shirt too. The guy cannot carry his club form into the international arena. Messi and Ronaldo have scored shed loads of goals for their countries. Carrick can't pick out an assist, never mind a goal or two. He's just not cut out for it. And when I say 'it', I mean passing, tackling and running on a football pitch. There are far better options for England. Including Gareth Barry, who has definitely proven he has what it takes to play for England, even if it was 8 years ago.

An impact to winning matches yes. How many of those goal were against sub standard oppostiton, friendly matches etc. Lots of variables so its not clear on how impact is meant.
In terms of leading their nations to glory nether have made that impact & they are the best two in the world.

Tactics will be up later this eve folks, post work

Carrick plays against substandard teams most weeks, in a good side. Ronaldo plays against substandard countries in a mostly poor side.

And it's not for want of trying, particularly Ronaldo. He single-handedly drags Portugal through every qualifying campaign they're in.

Olly wrote:Tactics will be up later this eve folks, post work

Did you take the job at the chippy in the end?

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:It's Friday everyone's blood pressure is high we all want to go out.

SHUT UP VIVA! MY BLOOD PRESSURE IS FINE.

Is that you PINEAPPLEHEAD? How's life in Boston? Do you still give the Poles "Da Run"

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

Olly wrote:Tactics will be up later this eve folks, post work

Did you take the job at the chippy in the end?

Yeah been working there for about the past 5 months!!!

Get free chips it's quality, barely do any service past 7:30  

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:It's Friday everyone's blood pressure is high we all want to go out.

SHUT UP VIVA! MY BLOOD PRESSURE IS FINE.

Is that you PINEAPPLEHEAD? How's life in Boston? Do you still give the Poles "Da Run"

Didn't PINEAPPLEHEAD turn out to be someone else who was also a bit racist?

Or am I mixing up past managers there?

It feels like Christmas/Bring your toys on day.

Sheep Results - Gregers wins

1.Who bossed the recent league cup game between United and Liverpool?
Liverpool
2. Who is better for England, Carrick or Gerrard?
Gerrard
3. Nae an England player nominated for the Euro 2012 team of the ton
Ash Cole
4. Name a title-winning side that finished outside of the top 4 the following season (2013-'14 season does not count)
Blackburn rovers
5. Name as many positions as you can where Daniel Sturridge could be effective from
Cam, cf, ss, lw, rw
6. Name an England RB who can defend (trick question, there aren't any)
James Milner
7. Who should be the next England manager: Zebs, Viva, or Michael Carrick's dad
None of the above
8. Name an England CM who has received a Ballon D'Or vote during his career.
Frank Lampard

Azzy Mahmood wrote:
And it's not for want of trying, particularly Ronaldo. He single-handedly drags Portugal through every qualifying campaign they're in.

Really that's how you have to judge impact of individuals. How would the team/country have done without them. It is entirely subjective, but how else can you judge it.

Without Ronaldo, Portugal would have been well below where they are. To a lesser extent Messi.

Last few years, Messi has replicated Barca form in an Argentina shirt, but I can accept an argument that his impact internationally has been below what you would expect. Not Ronaldo though.

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:

sodhat wrote:

VivaPaulScholes wrote:It's Friday everyone's blood pressure is high we all want to go out.

SHUT UP VIVA! MY BLOOD PRESSURE IS FINE.

Is that you PINEAPPLEHEAD? How's life in Boston? Do you still give the Poles "Da Run"

Didn't PINEAPPLEHEAD turn out to be someone else who was also a bit racist?

Or am I mixing up past managers there?

Yes it did and no your not

A certain individual from Cardiff who snapped and was banned for a tirade against Nick

Sky Sports News ‏@SkySportsNews
Sky Sources England team: Hart; Walker, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines; Gerrard, Lampard; Townsend, Rooney, Welbeck; Sturridge #SSN

Townsend?!     

OK Azzy. I'm sorry you are right.

Pineapple was smartest who was racist little boy.

What's their to do in Nottingham?

You can come visit me Viva, I'm near in Derby

Sadly that'd mean him having to visit Derby

Haha Mighty I'll be coming down then.

It's not that bad

Only if you go to Normanton, you're fooked if you go there.

Got to do a 15 minute presentation on the 1st World War next month, haven't a clue where to begin!
Work though are taking me to Vienna in February

Olly wrote:Sky Sports News ‏@SkySportsNews
Sky Sources England team: Hart; Walker, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines; Gerrard, Lampard; Townsend, Rooney, Welbeck; Sturridge #SSN

Townsend?!     

I'm more concerned by the Gerrard/Lampard partnership and Wilshere not starting.

What happens in Normanton

Community spirit is in short supply.

I'll take my chances. See you soon mighty xxx