Euro Division LXVII

First topic message reminder :

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
The Enrique & J from 5ive League
 
FC WHU Do You Think You Are - Gregers
 
Bilbao - Afro
 
Would you dance, if Ajax you to dance? - Sodhat
 
Southampton FC - Marky
 
PSV - CF
 
Sport Club Corinthians Paulista - Nando                                                                              
 
Lille - Trebs
 
Glad t'be bach - Hero
 
FC Basel - Viva
 
FC ZwagAtletico - Zinedine_Ze_Zebra
 
The Nodge - Olly
 
Fool 'em FC - Azzy

Carrick isn't consistent enough for England, if he's at his best consistently then he'll deserve the praise he gets from mostly Man U fans. Wrong decision to bring him off for Lampard, Hodgson should have brought Carrick off for Wilshere. Right to bring Carrick off though.

Townsend's beginning to convince me he's good enough, needs to do it for Tottenham now though. Seen England have two friendlies lined up for November, Germany and Argentina. Time to see if we're good enough against big teams.

Yeah Townsend is actually beginning to win me over as well. Fair play to the lad if he can keep this up!

My love for Leighton Baines tho. What a player. What a cross. You can thank Norwich for injuring Ashley Cole  

VivaPaulScholes wrote:Nicely said Nick about comparing Wilshere to the likes of Isco/Pogba.

Your not allowed to do it though Viva as it will actually highlight the fact Wilshere isn't as good or even proving himself to be as good as an actual world class talent.

Ravel bagged a brace today for the U21's. Game by game hes starting to show he may of sorted himself out. I kinda hope so too, too much talent to go to waste. But not to Ronaldo level as hes not with us anymore  

Yeah Townsend is actually beginning to win me over as well. Fair play to the lad if he can keep this up!

Me too, I already prefer him to Walcott.

Olly wrote:My love for Leighton Baines tho. What a player. What a cross. You can thank Norwich for injuring Ashley Cole  

I thought he was poor again tonight. Very exposable at the back, and I'd been shouting "CROSS IT LEIGHTON" for 15 solid minutes before he finally crossed the ball. He isn't his natural self when he plays for England, he plays stupid balls inside to Gerrard rather than get balls into the mixer.

My ratings:

Hart - 7 - clean sheet, made a couple of good saves, including that one off his hip from Lewandowski  
Smalling - 7 - made at least two crucial interventions, and got forward well whilst also tracking back. I'd have preferred Jones, but Smalling did very well
Cahill - 6 - didn't look comfortable for me, he always makes me nervous when he's on the ball too
Jagielka - 6 - more assured than Cahill, but also gives me the heeby-jeebies
Baines - 7 - should be a 10, but he doesn't attack or cross enough
Carrick - 5 - yet again did nothing, tidy in possession but no killer balls, no runs from deep, just passing it between the CBs and Gerrard for the majority of the game
Gerrard - 6 - would have been a 5 without the goal, which was pure determination
Townsend - 6 - looked very good again, needs to learn how to pick the right time to pass and the right time to take the man on. He gets it wrong 70% of the time
Welbeck - 4 - missed how many chances? Dreadful performance
Rooney - 8 - he finally looks fit, and finally looks interested. This Rooney could take England by the scruff of the pants and hoist them to a WC QF or further
Sturridge - 7 - he is so much better than Defoe, Lambert, Carroll, Welbeck, you name it. Such a danger.

Lampard coming on for Carrick was strange though, he offers nothing at that stage of the game. Good to see Wilshere coming on again, and looking threatening, while Milner was his usual invisible self doing the dog work.

A very good England performance for me - and plenty of positives to take into November and the two friendlies.

4 for Welbeck?
Delusional and redtopesque. Yes he snatched at his chances but he was involved from start to finish, was threatening throughout and was causing Poland no end of problems.

He had four chances first half, fluffed each and every one. Including an open goal from 6 yards. He might have gotten involved, but that was about as threatening as Elmer Fudd chasing Bugs Bunny. Never going to hurt Poland. He merits his place because right now there is no-one else who can play there but that is the one place England need a big improvement from if they're going to challenge for the WC.

And I don't know what redtopesque means

Azzy wrote:Carrick - 5 - yet again did nothing, tidy in possession but no killer balls, no runs from deep, just passing it between the CBs and Gerrard for the majority of the game

Nice of you to miss out all the forward passes to the attackers which cut out the two central Polish midfielders. Runs from deep is NOT Carricks game, hence why there isn't any. I would give him a tidy 7, did a job to a good level.

Azzy wrote:Townsend - 6 - looked very good again, needs to learn how to pick the right time to pass and the right time to take the man on. He gets it wrong 70% of the time

7 IMO, did well on the flank, his running at players causes problems. When he came inside the pitch he looked comfortable. But agree he needs to pick time of & which pass better which should develop as he gets more game time, think hes certainly got the attributes to.

Azzy wrote:Welbeck - 4 - missed how many chances? Dreadful performance

Usual bias #1D from you. Id say 6. He missed chances yes, others did too (Sturridges header) but his link up play with Rooney & Sturridge was good, encouraging. Also helped his midfield out dropping to defend & was even in his own box defending at times. Really needs to work on his finishing though.

Azzy wrote:Sturridge - 7 - he is so much better than Defoe, Lambert, Carroll, Welbeck, you name it. Such a danger.

I would of said 6. Too wasteful at times. Start of the second half where he was at the top by the corner flag, two Polish players on him yet he doesn't release the ball, tries taking them on & loses possession. Was too much of that from him.

Azzy wrote:Including an open goal from 6 yards.

Can argue Sturridge's header chance was also open goal from closer range. He even did the hard work to lose his defender, just didn't head the ball properly.

So Danny Welbeck is now the new Park Ji Sung?

Hart - 7
Smalling - 6
Cahill - 5
Jagielka - 6
Baines - 8
Carrick - 6
Gerrard - 7
Townsend - 7
Welbeck - 7
Rooney - 9
Sturridge - 7

Zebs, why do you always take my opinions as some sort of personal vendetta, and that they can't possibly be valid?

Carrick - didn't make many forward passes at all, I expected them and barely saw any. Gerrard was by far the driving force there. Playing someone to sit deep and act as a go-between for the ball crossing from LB-CB-DM-RB is a waste of a player. That's all he did all game. Oh that, and get mugged off on the counter attack.

Townsend - he would have gotten a 7 had he been more thoughtful on the ball. Too many possible passes he missed in favour of a dribble. Not seen a player like this for England since Steve McManaman though!

Welbeck - what usual bias? Is it my fault Welbeck is cr@p? His easy shot from 6 yards out was as clear-cut a sitter as you could hope for, not to mention the other half a dozen chances he muffed.

Sturridge - missed an easy header having done the hard work, but also created chances on his own. Looked far more threatening than Welbeck, who does not scare any defender.

To be fair, Hello Kitty looks more threatening than Danny Welbeck. Does anyone seriously think hed make the England squad if he played for a different club?

Sadly I do. Roy has a chubby for him. I've been a semi-fan of Welbeck at LW for a while, but tonight he was very poor.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Zebs, why do you always take my opinions as some sort of personal vendetta, and that they can't possibly be valid?

I dont. I just like to point out how you twist & make things up just to try be right. Your opinion is valid, just wrong a lot of the time  

Morning chaps.

Good result for England, but dear me!  How many chances were wasted last night?
Welbeck looked like a bad Heskey in front of goal!
We have to put those away if we are going to be successful.

Morning YI.
Too many chances. It will be the difference when playign top nations.

Welbeck looked like a bad Heskey in front of goal!

 thats got me in stitches.

Anyone seen Ravel's second goal from last night? #Quality
Also him and Zaha squaring up, Redmond stepped in to split them up.

Ravel really has a penchant for an early goal. I think that's the third time I've seen him score within 2 minutes this year already.

Top talent. Need him to not square up to people. Although Ravel > Zaha in both a fight and football ability.

Would listen to offers on Schmelzer. Looking for a top RB

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Zebs, why do you always take my opinions as some sort of personal vendetta, and that they can't possibly be valid?

I dont. I just like to point out how you twist & make things up just to try be right. Your opinion is valid, just wrong a lot of the time  

Be that as it may, I watched the whole game last night and I hope for England's sake that's the last time that Carrick plays for them. He offers nothing, Wilshere or even Cleverley would be better options. So too would Henderson, Rodwell, Barkley, and Paul Ince.

SUPER MARKY NOBLE

Although Ravel > Zaha in both a fight and football ability.

Agreed! Big Sam is paranoid he will return to Man United one day.....as far as I know we dont have a buy back clause so I cant see it happening.

Azzy wrote:
England's sake that's the last time that Carrick plays for them. He offers nothing, Wilshere or even Cleverley

   The King of Exaggeration strikes again. You have a higher hit counter than Charlie Sheen in Hot Shots! Part Deux.

Him too. Ravel Morrison. Tony Dorigo.

We need a midfielder that can sit back and protect the back four while also producing something going forward. Carrick doesn't do that, he produces sideways and backwards for England.

Wilshere gets stuck in and has a superb burst of pace. Cleverley is busy and gets forward, bless him. Henderson would be a good fit, I'd like to see him given a chance.

But I'd play Carrick over Lampard, every time. Lampard does not contribute anything to this England side. The only way I can see him in an England shirt again is if Gerrard is injured and even then, I'd rather see the likes of Wilshere and Barkley in there.

I hope he stays with us a bit longer but to be honest I'd be surprised if we kept him beyond this season if he keeps going the way he's going.

On the plus side we paid £500k for him and we are going to cash in on that bad boy. Literal bad boy.

Albion should do what West Ham did with Dorrans and bid £3m for Morrison, get knocked back, return with a bid of £3.5m, get knocked back, then wait a month and go back in with a £3m bid.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Him too. Ravel Morrison. Tony Dorigo.

We need a midfielder that can sit back and protect the back four while also producing something going forward. Carrick doesn't do that, he produces sideways and backwards for England.

Wilshere gets stuck in and has a superb burst of pace. Cleverley is busy and gets forward, bless him. Henderson would be a good fit, I'd like to see him given a chance.

But I'd play Carrick over Lampard, every time. Lampard does not contribute anything to this England side. The only way I can see him in an England shirt again is if Gerrard is injured and even then, I'd rather see the likes of Wilshere and Barkley in there.

The disappointing thing with Carrick last night and in previous England games is that he doesn't seem to do the same as he does for United. For United, he is vital, but you never feel the same for England.

If he did, he'd be a guaranteed starter for me.

Last two games have proved though that the way forward for England is a more attacking style. The front four were a nightmare to deal with for Poland, and that is what they need to deal with. Yes Sturridge and Welbeck missed chances, but the number of chances created is rare for England in internationals, so that is what they need to build on.

While West Ham sign all the players West Brom have on loan

It's been nice seeing England actually go after lesser nations. Rather than just cowering behind the ball. We aren't going anywhere in the WC but hopefully Roy keeps that mentality after

Agreed GSC. In all probability, we are going out at quarter final stage again at best.

I would rather go out in the group stage having played attacking football and having a real go, than play conservatively and go out on penalties in the quarters.

Question for the morning:

When Wallcott is fit, will he go straight to RW, or will Hodgson stick with Townsend?

OK Azzy calm down. You clearly havent watched the match properly but its ok, continue making stuff up.

sodhat wrote:I hope he stays with us a bit longer but to be honest I'd be surprised if we kept him beyond this season if he keeps going the way he's going.

On the plus side we paid £500k for him and we are going to cash in on that bad boy. Literal bad boy.

Ive heard a reported release fee of £19m, which Ravel requested himself.....he obviously believes in his own ability if true.

Hopefully drop Welbeck and Townsend plays left

Why £19m? Why not just £20m? Seems a strange number to pick

Morning 

Can't agree more then that Afro, we're not going to win the thing so lets go out play attacking Football. This has to be the end of the era of the old boys, starting from Euro qualifiers we should play the Morrison, Wilshere then maybe we'll have a better chance of reaching a semi.

GSC wrote:Hopefully drop Welbeck and Townsend plays left

I don't get why you would drop Welbeck. He is a real handful and I think has been playing. He is a bit wasteful, but also at the moment, for someone who is slated for his finishing, he has a decent goal return. It's not as if Walcott is going to bring more than Welbeck.

I would keep the same 4 as the moment and not bring Walcott back in at all

Y I Man wrote:Question for the morning:

When Wallcott is fit, will he go straight to RW, or will Hodgson stick with Townsend?

Walcott isn't good enough

How refreshing was it to see Townsend actually beat a man down the wing? And he is darn fast too.

Afro wrote:The disappointing thing with Carrick last night and in previous England games is that he doesn't seem to do the same as he does for United. For United, he is vital, but you never feel the same for England.

If he did, he'd be a guaranteed starter for me.

If Zebs doesn't crucify you for this post, then it's clear he just has a beef with me. It's clear to everyone who isn't a United fan that Carrick does not merit his England place.

Afro wrote:Why £19m? Why not just £20m? Seems a strange number to pick

No clue. Tweet & ask him lol

Y I Man wrote:Question for the morning:

When Wallcott is fit, will he go straight to RW, or will Hodgson stick with Townsend?

He'll go back to Walcott, but he should stick with Townsend.

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:OK Azzy calm down. You clearly havent watched the match properly but its ok, continue making stuff up.

sodhat wrote:I hope he stays with us a bit longer but to be honest I'd be surprised if we kept him beyond this season if he keeps going the way he's going.

On the plus side we paid £500k for him and we are going to cash in on that bad boy. Literal bad boy.

Ive heard a reported release fee of £19m, which Ravel requested himself.....he obviously believes in his own ability if true.

He is good enough for that money. If Downing goes for 20m then Morrison would be a steal at 19m.

Zinedine_Ze_Zebra wrote:OK Azzy calm down. You clearly havent watched the match properly but its ok, continue making stuff up.

I'd suggest that it's you that didn't watch the match properly, and that instead of just saying 'you're wrong', why don't you attempt to justify your defence of Michael Carrick's last 2 England performances? Or better yet, his whole England career? There has been nothing in his 31 caps to suggest that he will ever provide anything substantial to the team, other than acting as the go-between when passing along the back four.

He's not the same player for England as he is for United. And that's not Hodgson's fault, or Capello's, or Eriksson's, or McLaren's. It's his fault.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

Afro wrote:The disappointing thing with Carrick last night and in previous England games is that he doesn't seem to do the same as he does for United. For United, he is vital, but you never feel the same for England.

If he did, he'd be a guaranteed starter for me.

If Zebs doesn't crucify you for this post, then it's clear he just has a beef with me. It's clear to everyone who isn't a United fan that Carrick does not merit his England place.

I dont need to crucify him, Afro mentioned he doesn't seem to do the same as he does for United. I think Afro is clever enough to understand different systems are played for each team & as Carrick is fantastic in one he isnt so in another. I tried explaining this you you the other day but you were too stubborn (or stupid) to even take it into consideration.
All you do is bleet the same old made up rubbish you think is true. You say Carrick isnt fit to be on a football pitch, passing, tackling & running. There no point discussing anything with you, your a lost cause.

Carrick actually made a vital first time pass from a Poland clearance last night which went straight to Baines. The end result from a lovely cross was a goal.

Any time anyone brings up Carrick I'm going to remind you all that I shook his hand when I was 9.

Carrick > Lampard
However:
Wilshere > Carrick

He's a Geordie too YI. You should be right behind his cause. We haven't had all that many proper Geordies play for England have we?

Shearer, Beardsley...others?

YI, I think Wilshere is overrated. Still has a lot to prove.

sodhat wrote:He's a Geordie too YI. You should be right behind his cause. We haven't had all that many proper Geordies play for England have we?

Shearer, Beardsley...others?

I'm a Leeds supporter.  

And it wasn't the same Townsend we had on loan, it was a look-a-like we had, cos the one we had did nothing for us

sodhat wrote:Any time anyone brings up Carrick I'm going to remind you all that I shook his hand when I was 9.

That explains it then

That was a great ball to Baines for the goal, but I feel I should just mention how good a cross it was.

Can I also say that Cahill and Jagielka are becoming a good partnership. Both leaders at the back and quite a refreshing change to not have big egos but proper honest footballers, like Rio and Terry.

Y I Man wrote:

sodhat wrote:He's a Geordie too YI. You should be right behind his cause. We haven't had all that many proper Geordies play for England have we?

Shearer, Beardsley...others?

I'm a Leeds supporter.  

And it wasn't the same Townsend we had on loan, it was a look-a-like we had, cos the one we had did nothing for us

But you're a Brown Ale swilling, Lineker's bar drinking, Metro riding Geordie as well aren't you?

sodhat wrote:

Y I Man wrote:

sodhat wrote:He's a Geordie too YI. You should be right behind his cause. We haven't had all that many proper Geordies play for England have we?

Shearer, Beardsley...others?

I'm a Leeds supporter.  

And it wasn't the same Townsend we had on loan, it was a look-a-like we had, cos the one we had did nothing for us

But you're a Brown Ale swilling, Lineker's bar drinking, Metro riding Geordie as well aren't you?

Maybes