Khan side stepping Alexander for Mayweather....

by ONETWOFOREVER Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:48 pm

First topic message reminder :

stupid.... because he will be out of the ring for a total of 13 months by the time he meets Floyd in May 2014

wise... because its too dangerous a fight to take when he could miss out on a potential £10 million payday

hypercritical... because he has always claimed to be the best in the division but this represents a clear duck

In my view Khan needs to face and beat Alexander in December. He still has not proven himself imo. Winning a belt and looseing it just as quickly does not make him a genuine p4p contender. According to the Mirror the Alexander fight is truely off and Khan will now wait for Money May.

by azania Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:31 pm

Nothing lucky about Garcia landing that punch. Ge aimed it and timed it well. Great win for him.

by Rowley Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:32 pm

All Time Great wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I think most neutral fans would give Garcia some credit instead of spouting 'lucky', 'getting out of jail' rubbish. The moment Garcia knocked him out and Diaz constantly rocked him he ceased to be in the class of Bradley or Alexander or even Garcia, stop making excuses for him and see what actually happened. Garcias win over Matthyse is arguably better than one of Khans win and add in his actual win over Khan he clearly now rates higher.

No luck but a well thought out and executed gameplan.
Look at the punch stats

Round 1

Khan 26/57
Garcia 6/48

Round 2

Khan 30/66
Garcia 12/49

Round 3 (when Knockdown occurred)

Khan 26/55
Garcia 24/57

NB. Garcia threw less than 15 jabs each round- which pretty much confirms he was never in the business of looking to set up any form of hook by slowing Khan down.

I give Garcia credit for closing the fight out in the 4th round, and I also give Khan credit for beating the count, as it was a shot that took his senses away from him.

Anyone looking at the above stats should be able to see Garcia could of been on the end of a serious beating if he didn't get lucky in the 3rd round.

There is only really one stat that matters though.

Number of knockouts Garcia 1 - Khan 0

by Nico the gman Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:33 pm

Lucks got nowt to do with it,Garcia threw the punch with the intent of landing and causing damage and that he did.

by Rowley Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:36 pm

Nico the gman wrote:Lucks got nowt to do with it,Garcia threw the punch with the intent of landing and causing damage and that he did.

Well said, hate the term lucky punch. Unless he was aiming at the ref or a particularly irritating insect buzzing round him we have to assume he was aiming to hit Khan, he achieved his objective.

by catchweight Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:38 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Picking fighters who fight in or near his division would be a good start instead of expecting him to move up yet again. You can say they can make light middleweight but there is no actual evidence of that and considering Mayweather weighs in at 150lbs think it's unreasonable to expect him to face middleweights.

They would try to make light middleweight which is the thing that matters. Hes fought a guy who weighed in at 165lbs on the night and beat him comfortably. Its not that big a stretch to imagine Martinez or Golovkin would weight something similar or that it could be stipulated. People bemoan Mayweathers lack of options but then start saying that Martinez and Golovkin need to start chasing him or proving they can make light middleweight. Just offer them the fight and see. Hes picking Khan because its an easier option. Thats really the bottom the line. Its a crap fight and deserves to be recognised as one without all the excuses. Mayweather is happy to offer a fight to a guy with no welterweight credentials whatsoever so its not really that much of a push to say he could look for Martinez or Golovkin at light middleweight. We all know the reasons why he would prefer Khan though. Its as obvious as can be. The rest is just excuses.

by Hammersmith harrier Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:43 pm

He's picking Khan because of the money, it really is as simple as that.

by azania Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:45 pm

Why not ask Ward to come down to 150?

by **ShahenshahG** Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 pm

azania wrote:Why not ask Ward to come down to 150?

Because then he would be the Grandson of God

by All Time Great Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:56 pm

Rowley wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:Lucks got nowt to do with it,Garcia threw the punch with the intent of landing and causing damage and that he did.
Well said, hate the term lucky punch. Unless he was aiming at the ref or a particularly irritating insect buzzing round him we have to assume he was aiming to hit Khan, he achieved his objective.

So if Khan and Garcia fought again, your prognosis would be Khan would lose because Garcia will wait 2.75 rounds whilst taking a hiding (...landing approx 12% of his punches in the process) to land a chilling left hook to end the fight?

I might as well join the ESB as it appears the majority of this forum probably believe Hasim Rahman took Lennox Lewis to school waiting to time his one punch KO to perfection?! Headscratch

by Nico the gman Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:06 pm

All Time Great wrote:
Rowley wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:Lucks got nowt to do with it,Garcia threw the punch with the intent of landing and causing damage and that he did.
Well said, hate the term lucky punch. Unless he was aiming at the ref or a particularly irritating insect buzzing round him we have to assume he was aiming to hit Khan, he achieved his objective.
So if Khan and Garcia fought again, your prognosis would be Khan would lose because Garcia will wait 2.75 rounds whilst taking a hiding (...landing approx 12% of his punches in the process) to land a chilling left hook to end the fight?

I might as well join the ESB as it appears the majority of this forum probably believe Hasim Rahman took Lennox Lewis to school waiting to time his one punch KO to perfection?!

The fight wasn't over 2.75 rounds it was over 12,so if Khan fights Mayweather wins the first 3 rounds easily without hardly taking a punch and Mayweather knocks him out in the 4th round with whatever punch, Mayweather just got lucky by your own prognosis,entitled to your opinion but it doesn't hold water for me.

by Rowley Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:07 pm

If that is what you choose to infer from my post feel free

by Rowley Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:16 pm

If a fighter gets battered from pillar to post for 11 rounds but half way through the last round his opponent is overwhelmed by feelings of existentialist ennui and promptly quits the fight to ponder his place in the universe he has been lucky.

If a fighter wins a fight by with barely a quarter of the fight gone by doing something (landing a punch) he has trained for approximately 8 weeks to do, he has not.

by Nico the gman Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:23 pm

Rowley wrote:If a fighter gets battered from pillar to post for 11 rounds but half way through the last round his opponent is overwhelmed by feelings of existentialist ennui and promptly quits the fight to ponder his place in the universe he has been lucky.

If a fighter wins a fight by with barely a quarter of the fight gone by doing something (landing a punch) he has trained for approximately 8 weeks to do, he has not.

Summed up perfectly.

by azania Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:25 pm

I presume Froch got lucky against jermaine Taylor.

by Lance Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:30 pm

catchweight wrote:
Lance wrote:
catchweight wrote:Nah Trout lost a controversial decision to Alvarez. He has a different skillset that would make for a more interesting challenge. Khan is a crap fight. If Golovkin and Martinez could come to some weight agreement and make light middleweight there shouldnt be an reason for Mayweather to say no. If he is willing to step in the ring with Alvarez weighing 165lbs then he should do the same for other fighters who weigh that. Otherwise it looks like he is picking and choosing.
didn't realise the trout alvarez decision was controversial? didn't see anybody have trout winning it. he fought alvarez because he was a massive high earning prizefighter, golovkin is not. majority of boxing fans have never heard of golovkin. the guy has just beat macklin and got Stephenson next, people need to get off the bandwagon until hes fought somebody word class. Look how great Matthysse turned out to be. if flloyd took on Martinez it would be cherry picking of an old guy who is injured and looked rubbish last time out
Plenty of people thought Trout won from what I read. I thought Trout edged it. It wouldnt have mattered though, Trout would have had to KOed Alvarez to stop the hype express. People seem to be argue about Mayweather with more emphasis on where such an such opponent puts him on some such and such list compared to some boxers that fought 50 years ago. I dont really care about that or why x shouldnt fight y because of z. I prefer to watch the best fighters tested in the most challenging match ups. Khan is pretty crap choice at the moment. I dont think Golovkin is as small a name as is made out but anyway who cares? I want to see the fight. It would be fantastic. Im not interested in arguing why a pointless fight like Khan is justified instead. Anyone who thinks Khan is a tougher challenge or deserves the fight more right now well good luck to them, but they are having a laugh.

I don't want to see him fight Khan any more than you do. Its POOR FIGHT. But Mayweather isn't interested in boosting his legacy or looking for challenging fights. hes looking for what makes the most business sense. He wont fight Golovkin until Golovkin is more marketable. this is as much Golovkins fault as it is Mayweathers. He knows the rules and he needs to step up a level if he wants big fights. Mayweather Khan is no worse a fight than Golovkin Macklin. Mayweather is not one to duck challenges though. If Trout or Golovkin were his best option financially he would take them on, at the moment they are not.

by KingMonkey Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:34 pm

Nothing lucky in Garcia's win over Khan. What those stats don't tell you is that one of those missed punches was the knock out punch that missed by a whisker. This is a ridiculous argument.

by Nico the gman Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:42 pm

Myweather v Khan is the only fight that generates big interest on both sides of the water,the casual fight fan in Britain hasn't got a clue who Trout or Govolkin are so wouldn't pay to watch it, Khan is the most well known fighter in Britain,its a no brainer.PPV figures will be high for this one.

by Mayweathers cellmate Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:48 pm

Garcia brings nothing new to the table. He's just another plodder that Mayweather wouldn't break sweat schooling for 12 rounds. Who wants to see that?

by catchweight Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:27 am

Lance wrote:
catchweight wrote:
Lance wrote:
catchweight wrote:Nah Trout lost a controversial decision to Alvarez. He has a different skillset that would make for a more interesting challenge. Khan is a crap fight. If Golovkin and Martinez could come to some weight agreement and make light middleweight there shouldnt be an reason for Mayweather to say no. If he is willing to step in the ring with Alvarez weighing 165lbs then he should do the same for other fighters who weigh that. Otherwise it looks like he is picking and choosing.
didn't realise the trout alvarez decision was controversial? didn't see anybody have trout winning it. he fought alvarez because he was a massive high earning prizefighter, golovkin is not. majority of boxing fans have never heard of golovkin. the guy has just beat macklin and got Stephenson next, people need to get off the bandwagon until hes fought somebody word class. Look how great Matthysse turned out to be. if flloyd took on Martinez it would be cherry picking of an old guy who is injured and looked rubbish last time out
Plenty of people thought Trout won from what I read. I thought Trout edged it. It wouldnt have mattered though, Trout would have had to KOed Alvarez to stop the hype express. People seem to be argue about Mayweather with more emphasis on where such an such opponent puts him on some such and such list compared to some boxers that fought 50 years ago. I dont really care about that or why x shouldnt fight y because of z. I prefer to watch the best fighters tested in the most challenging match ups. Khan is pretty crap choice at the moment. I dont think Golovkin is as small a name as is made out but anyway who cares? I want to see the fight. It would be fantastic. Im not interested in arguing why a pointless fight like Khan is justified instead. Anyone who thinks Khan is a tougher challenge or deserves the fight more right now well good luck to them, but they are having a laugh.
I don't want to see him fight Khan any more than you do. Its POOR FIGHT. But Mayweather isn't interested in boosting his legacy or looking for challenging fights. hes looking for what makes the most business sense. He wont fight Golovkin until Golovkin is more marketable. this is as much Golovkins fault as it is Mayweathers. He knows the rules and he needs to step up a level if he wants big fights. Mayweather Khan is no worse a fight than Golovkin Macklin. Mayweather is not one to duck challenges though. If Trout or Golovkin were his best option financially he would take them on, at the moment they are not.

This doesnt make sense. Mayweather will make millions no matter who fights. He doesnt duck challenges? Open to debate. The marketability excuse has been overworn and not that relevant in relation Khan. Golovkin or Martinez would be massive fights. I think when you get down to it the reality is pretty clear. Khan is the easier option. Its the main issue at play. All the other kind of stuff about weight and selling is window dressing to this.

by catchweight Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:30 am

azania wrote:Why not ask Ward to come down to 150?

Irrelevant. Lets focus on the the feasible for the time being. Golovkin or Martinez would come to 154 for the fight, its almost certain.

by azania Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:38 am

It isn't feasible for him to fight middleweights. He isn't even a lmw.

by catchweight Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:42 am

azania wrote:It isn't feasible for him to fight middleweights. He isn't even a lmw.

If Golovkin or Martinez weighs 165lbs in the ring and Alvarez weighs 165lbs in the ring then there is no real issue. If Golovkin or Martinez can agree to fight at light middleweight where Mayweather is champion there should be no issue. But im bored of the crappy arguments as to why Khan is the best fight for him. I like to see the best fighters challenged. Im not emotionally involved enough with them or give enough of a crap about where they rank in a last to really care about the excuses. Thats for others to debate. I just want to see the most intriguing fights. Simple as that really.

by azania Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:52 am

And when Floyd slaps them the issue of weight drain rears its ugly head. Floyd is small for a WW.

by azania Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:55 am

But if they're willing to come down to 154 Floyd should put in a stip that they can't rehydrate to more than 156. A penalty of $500k for each lb they put on over that.

by catchweight Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:58 am

What are you talking about? I want to see good fights. There really isnt any other agenda for me. You go on like like your Mayweathers lawyer or something. I dont give a crap what other people say as long as I thinks the fight is worthwhile. Can anyone genuinely say they find Mayweather against Khan a better prospect than Mayweather against Golovkin or Martinez? I know what I would rather watch. If they can make light middleweight then the should be entitled to fight for the title.

by STC Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:18 am

azania wrote:It isn't feasible for him to fight middleweights. He isn't even a lmw.

How is it feasible for Roberto Duran to fight Hagler in 1983 for the world middleweight titles but not for Mayweather to do it now?

Do different rules apply to Mayweather than to other great fighters?

by Boxtthis Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:21 am

catchweight wrote:What are you talking about? I want to see good fights. There really isnt any other agenda for me. You go on like like your Mayweathers lawyer or something. I dont give a crap what other people say as long as I thinks the fight is worthwhile. Can anyone genuinely say they find Mayweather against Khan a better prospect than Mayweather against Golovkin or Martinez? I know what I would rather watch. If they can make light middleweight then the should be entitled to fight for the title.

by Boxtthis Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:25 am

Floyd doesn't have to fight Martinez or Golovkin to be considered great, he's more than done enough already. But, as a boxing fan, those are th fights I'd like to see. Let's not pretend that anyone is really bothered about a Khan or Garcia fight.

CW, I couldn't agree more: too many amatuer promoters and lawyers on this thread.

by jimdig Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:34 am

Khan v mayweather makes sense because mayweather could do with a highlight reel KO, he hasn't had one since hatton (Ortiz had a cheap shot feel about it).

There is too much talk state side that his fights are boring. A fight with khan won't be boring from any perspective.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:36 am

azania wrote:It isn't feasible for him to fight middleweights. He isn't even a lmw.

As someone went to great lengths to emphasise on another thread, LMW is everything between 147 and 154, Floyd comfortably fits into that category. He may be a small LMW but he is a LMW - he is certainly not a small WW, that's just you doing your classic wumming again, needing to push a point a mile to the extreme to gain an inch to the reasonable. The fact he had a several inch reach advantage fighting a fully fledged LMW in his last fight tells you that.

Ideally Floyd will want to fight at WW because he can comfortably make 147 and then be big at the weight, that makes plenty of sense, but that doesn't mean he's not a LMW.

by Mayweathers cellmate Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:37 am

Why stop there with the circus fights. What about Mayweather vs Adonis Stevenson, or maybe David Haye? People would love to see that.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:37 am

azania wrote:But if they're willing to come down to 154 Floyd should put in a stip that they can't rehydrate to more than 156. A penalty of $500k for each lb they put on over that.

You mean something he wasn't willing to do when forcing JMM up to a catchweight? He got fined about 50p for ignoring that.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:38 am

STC wrote:
azania wrote:It isn't feasible for him to fight middleweights. He isn't even a lmw.
How is it feasible for Roberto Duran to fight Hagler in 1983 for the world middleweight titles but not for Mayweather to do it now?

Do different rules apply to Mayweather than to other great fighters?

by TopHat24/7 Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:39 am

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Why stop there with the circus fights. What about Mayweather vs Adonis Stevenson, or maybe David Haye? People would love to see that.

by Mayweathers cellmate Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:48 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
STC wrote:
azania wrote:It isn't feasible for him to fight middleweights. He isn't even a lmw.
How is it feasible for Roberto Duran to fight Hagler in 1983 for the world middleweight titles but not for Mayweather to do it now?

Do different rules apply to Mayweather than to other great fighters?

Because Duran was way past his best and would fight anyone for the right money at that time. A better question would be why didn't Marvin Hagler step up to LH in his prime?

by Mayweathers cellmate Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:53 am

jimdig wrote:Khan v mayweather makes sense because mayweather could do with a highlight reel KO, he hasn't had one since hatton (Ortiz had a cheap shot feel about it).

There is too much talk state side that his fights are boring. A fight with khan won't be boring from any perspective.

For a fighter as unbeatable as Mayweather his highlight reel is shockingly bad, has he ever scored a highlight reel KO? no, because he has no one punch power which is what makes the Khan fight interesting.

by Mayweathers cellmate Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:56 am

The only thing Mayweather, Golovkin and Martinez have in common is that none of them can make 154lbs properly.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:08 am

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
STC wrote:
azania wrote:It isn't feasible for him to fight middleweights. He isn't even a lmw.
How is it feasible for Roberto Duran to fight Hagler in 1983 for the world middleweight titles but not for Mayweather to do it now?

Do different rules apply to Mayweather than to other great fighters?

Because Duran was way past his best and would fight anyone for the right money at that time. A better question would be why didn't Marvin Hagler step up to LH in his prime?

Sounds like Floyd's main criteria for fight picking right there.

by STC Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:12 am

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
STC wrote:
azania wrote:It isn't feasible for him to fight middleweights. He isn't even a lmw.
How is it feasible for Roberto Duran to fight Hagler in 1983 for the world middleweight titles but not for Mayweather to do it now?

Do different rules apply to Mayweather than to other great fighters?

Because Duran was way past his best and would fight anyone for the right money at that time. A better question would be why didn't Marvin Hagler step up to LH in his prime?

Way past his best?

He must have been a walking corpse 6 years later then when he beat Iran Barkley to win the WBC middleweight title.

But it's different for all the other fighters, they can fight bigger men, Mayweather can't though (even though he just has). He can fight smaller men like Marquez, that's ok.

Martinez is not a large middleweight anyway. But we can't expect Floyd to concede anything to an opponent. That's not fair, it's asking too much of the best fighter of his generation.

by Boxtthis Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:20 am

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Why stop there with the circus fights. What about Mayweather vs Adonis Stevenson, or maybe David Haye? People would love to see that.

Nothing like a bit of ridiculous exaggeration to make a point.

by catchweight Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:23 am

It seems like people are just afraid Mayweather will lose and dont want him to test himself. Hes a class fighter so surely people should want to see just how far he can go and how brilliant he can be. Instead they seem more concerned about where places in some fictional list and how taking a risky fight might jeopardise this. He beat Alvarez easily despite being outweighed. Why not Golovkin or Martinez?

by Mayweathers cellmate Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:35 am

STC wrote:
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
STC wrote:
azania wrote:It isn't feasible for him to fight middleweights. He isn't even a lmw.
How is it feasible for Roberto Duran to fight Hagler in 1983 for the world middleweight titles but not for Mayweather to do it now?

Do different rules apply to Mayweather than to other great fighters?

Because Duran was way past his best and would fight anyone for the right money at that time. A better question would be why didn't Marvin Hagler step up to LH in his prime?
Way past his best?

He must have been a walking corpse 6 years later then when he beat Iran Barkley to win the WBC middleweight title.

But it's different for all the other fighters, they can fight bigger men, Mayweather can't though (even though he just has). He can fight smaller men like Marquez, that's ok.

Martinez is not a large middleweight anyway. But we can't expect Floyd to concede anything to an opponent. That's not fair, it's asking too much of the best fighter of his generation.

Mayweather has been fighting 'bigger men' for the best part of the last 10 years. He just beat a guy that supposedly outweighed him by 20 lbs!

Duran started at LW and fought at MW.
Mayweather started at FW and fights at LMW.

Let's face it some people won't be happy until he loses. If Floyd beat Golovkin and Martinez those same people would be calling for him to fight Ward or Froch. Making the best P4P fighter take circus fights against much bigger men cheapens the whole sport.

by catchweight Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:37 am

If he kept winning then why not? What rubbish that it cheapens the sport. It makes it interesting. Some people just want to see the best and most interesting fights rather than act as Mayweathers barrister.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:39 am

Do you mean all this 'bigger men' he's had significant reach advantages over??

Also, Floyd started at SFW did he not? Unless by 'started' you mean just his first one or two fights. He won his first title at SFW in only his 17th or something fight.

by Mayweathers cellmate Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:42 am

Physical mismatches don't make for interesting fights.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:44 am

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Physical mismatches don't make for interesting fights.

Indeed. See Mayweather vs JMM for a case in point.

by catchweight Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:44 am

You dont know its a mismatch. If you had your way Mayweather would never step up at all. He would never have fought Alvarez. If he can beat bigger men then why not do it. His fans are scared sh1tless that he might lose rather than wanting to see a genuinely intriguing fight that both fighters could in.

by Mayweathers cellmate Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:45 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:Do you mean all this 'bigger men' he's had significant reach advantages over??

Also, Floyd started at SFW did he not? Unless by 'started' you mean just his first one or two fights. He won his first title at SFW in only his 17th or something fight.

So what are you saying. Boxing categories should be dictated by reach?

Only 17 fights? He was world champion at SFW. How many fights has Golovkin had?

by Mayweathers cellmate Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:48 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Physical mismatches don't make for interesting fights.
Indeed. See Mayweather vs JMM for a case in point.

Maywetaher is probably a natural 5lbs bigger than JMM. Golovkin is probably over 15lbs bigger than Mayweather. Fair fight.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:57 am

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Do you mean all this 'bigger men' he's had significant reach advantages over??

Also, Floyd started at SFW did he not? Unless by 'started' you mean just his first one or two fights. He won his first title at SFW in only his 17th or something fight.
So what are you saying. Boxing categories should be dictated by reach?

Only 17 fights? He was world champion at SFW. How many fights has Golovkin had?

Eh? Not sure I understand your point?!

Did you actually read what I wrote?

You said PBF started at FW, I said I didn't think that was true and cited that within 17 fights he was already fighting for a title at SFW therefore I couldn't imagine he spent much of his career at FW if that were the case.

That hard to understand?

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