Ireland's November Series and Beyond...

First topic message reminder :

Right boys, I want you give realistic guess of how Ireland will do in the November tests. I want you to separate your hearts from your heads. How do you predict Ireland will do and how will this set them up for the Six nations based on your poll prediction for the Autumn tests.

Do you believe in Schmidt? Do you believe he is the catalyst for consistent success or will we yet again disappoint by firing hot and cold like recent championships have dictated. Is there cause for quite confidence or should we be holding are cards close to our chest.

Feel free to throw out your wildest aspirations on the table or to throw caution to the wind.

The rest is up to you....


Sat 9th Ireland vs Samoa - Autumn
Sat 16th Ireland vs Australia - Autumn
Sun 24th Ireland vs New Zealand

Bloody Darcy!

Oh man, thats not what we were hoping for... Luke Marshall and Dan Tuohy not in there at all. Gutted.

rodders wrote:Samoa is not the game for Marshall anyways given his concussion record.... hopefully he'll get the nod against Australia but who knows.

Nonsense. Either there is a risk of further concussion or there is not and if there is he should not be a professional rugby player.

Schmidt visibly very nervous about this job................ a lot of reputation riding on this stint.

Redden...

If Census Johnston is in, he could really do some damage to McGrath. I am very apprehensive about this team. We've opted for the "famous" Leinster tight five that is the soft underbelly of that team. I'm very unconvinced by this selection.

Ok, just pulling myself together here. I'm very glad to see Schmidt reward both Henry and jackson for their good form.

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:Samoa is not the game for Marshall anyways given his concussion record.... hopefully he'll get the nod against Australia but who knows.

Nonsense. Either there is a risk of further concussion or there is not and if there is he should not be a professional rugby player.

Of course there is a further concussion risk, every player is at risk. Marshall doesn't have great contact skills hence this is a risky game for him.

I'd be happy for him to start but I can see why D'arcy is a safer bet first up for Joe.

Let the Samoans bash D'arce about the place and then Marshall can come in and give a footballing masterclass against the wallabies....

Yeah I'm pleased for those guys, but seeing a tight five like this line out for Ireland is very uncomfortable. It is a very, very weak tight five at test level and I can't help but be a bit downhearted about the situation. We've no real quality at prop or at lock.

Great response from Heaslip there re. captainship. I admire his attitude a lot!

Whats the team? My stream doesnt work.

Can someone post the team please?

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 46
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 51
13. Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) 125
12. Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 73
11. Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 19
10. Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) 4
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 19
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) 57
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster) 8
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 16
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 7
4. Mike McCarthy (Leinster) 12
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 31
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 67
1. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)*

REPLACEMENTS
16. Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 27
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 39
18. Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) 5
19. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 85
20. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 27
21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 50
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 4
23. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)*

With those subs it seems to me that it's more a 2nd half push-on game. (higher tempo)

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:Samoa is not the game for Marshall anyways given his concussion record.... hopefully he'll get the nod against Australia but who knows.

Nonsense. Either there is a risk of further concussion or there is not and if there is he should not be a professional rugby player.

Of course there is a further concussion risk, every player is at risk. Marshall doesn't have great contact skills hence this is a risky game for him.

I'd be happy for him to start but I can see why D'arcy is a safer bet first up for Joe.

Let the Samoans bash D'arce about the place and then Marshall can come in and give a footballing masterclass against the wallabies....

 

Not sure what you are saying here rodders.. Marshall is very strong in contact and is the most physical option at 12 we have.

IRELAND Team & Replacements v Samoa (Aviva Stadium, Dublin, Guinness Series, Saturday, November 9th, kick-off 17.45 GMT)

Player/Club/Province/Caps -

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 46
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 51
13. Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) 125
12. Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 73
11. Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 19
10. Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) 4
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 19
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) 57
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster) 8
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 16
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 7
4. Mike McCarthy (Leinster) 12
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 31
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 67
1. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)*

REPLACEMENTS
16. Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 27
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 39
18. Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) 5
19. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 85
20. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 27
21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 50
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 4
23. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)*

* Denotes uncapped player

Good team. Cant complain. Right mix v Samoa I reckon.

Good to see Schmidt isnt afraid to cap talented youth.

Cheers. yeah not bad, not great, no surprises. That team could do a job in the B&I cup anyways.

Gutted for Isaac Boss though. Joe won't be on the Christmas card list....

Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

So O'Connell the captain. That should keep the wolves from the door. Just looking at the team I genuinely think Schmidt will change up (injury aside) his 10/12 axis next week. He has given his new LH a chance with established front row partners with serious impact in Healy, POC and O'Brien to come off the bench. 

He is giving a new 10 experience on either side too. I think he will do the same with Marshall next week. Always speaks impressively 

Notch wrote:Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

Not really. Only POC and Healy are missing from the usual front five. Do you really think we should field the same front 5 every match?

Notch wrote:Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

It's about testing out options for our future as much as it is about a game that we'd all like to win against Samoa. One minute we want Schmidt to keep his eye on development, the next we're not so sure we mean it.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I think one of the big things with Joe is that he will not only TRUST his bench, but he will use it constructively. That alone will be a massive departure from the previous 2 reigns

I rest my case.

I'm official worried

D'Arcy or BOD will be off injured in the first 30 mins if history is anything to go by
I can see that front 5 having a hard time.
That is the weak part of the Leinster team not its strong point - especially without Healy.

Best, BOD, D'Arcy and Henry could be very busy boys at the breakdown

Good luck to McGrath - he is going to experience something he has never experienced before (and I don't mean playing in an International).
I think Healy should have played and maybe gone to the bench for Australia.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Not sure what you are saying here rodders.. Marshall is very strong in contact and is the most physical option at 12 we have.

I mean he gets his head on the wrong side a lot when tackling and tends to slip off a few. He doesn't get involved in the ruck clear outs either which is a key part of the way Joe likes to play.

He is physically strong, not questioning that.

Notch wrote:Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

I thought he was defo out? You obviously missed Jack taking Adam Jones to the cleaners in May. And again this season.

17 Leinster players in the original squad, 15 in the matchday 23.

Good or bad?

Sticking to what you know when there are better options available, or picking the guys who are most familiar with his methods. Hope this isn't a hallmark of his reign- no-one likes to see a coach who is biased towards one province. In his first few months he can be forgiven for sticking with what he knows but really he should be working towards picking the best players regardless of province.

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

It's about testing out options for our future as much as it is about a game that we'd all like to win against Samoa.  One minute we want Schmidt to keep his eye on development, the next we're not so sure we mean it.

Not at all you experiment in the right place where the players have a chance to shine

Marshall not D'Arcy
Tuohy not Toner
Marmion not Reddan

What we have done is sent out a front 5 that looks underpowered.
Tuohy and Healy would have gone a long way to mitigate that, maybe Archer as well

Joe out!

Schmidtclock.com

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I think one of the big things with Joe is that he will not only TRUST his bench, but he will use it constructively. That alone will be a massive departure from the previous 2 reigns

I rest my case.

Yes, the bench has promising hints about the future in that as the media are looking at who starts (the big story for some historic reason), Schmidt will be thinking about the whole game and the players who finish things out will have equal billing in his mind.

So 15 Leinster, 5 Ulster and 3 Munster

Maybe Joe is using this game to 'test and rest' after all.

He can test how the non-Leinster guys fit in with his style of game and still rest guys like Healy and O'Brien to be reasonably fresh for the All Blacks.

I don't see Marshall slipping off tackles rodders but I dont share the negativity around this team. Yes, Johnston is a fine TH but McGrath isn't going to learn anything scrummaging against deck chairs. I admit the 2nd row isn't awe inspiring but without O'Connell and indeed Henderson it was always going to look iffy.

I don't know why people are so worried about McGrath. He has already proven himself against the likes of Adam Jones and was pushing Heinke all the way for a bench spot before Heinke got injured. I would be more worried about Ross against Mulipola.

It's a strong team, I would have Redden and McLaughlin in myself as they are far better players but you can't have everything...

I hope none our 2nd row players get injured, we have nothing on the bench there. Where is Tom Denton!!

geoff999rugby wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

It's about testing out options for our future as much as it is about a game that we'd all like to win against Samoa.  One minute we want Schmidt to keep his eye on development, the next we're not so sure we mean it.

Not at all you experiment in the right place where the players have a chance to shine

Marshall not D'Arcy
Tuohy not Toner
Marmion not Reddan

What we have done is sent out a front 5 that looks underpowered.
Tuohy and Healy would have gone a long way to mitigate that, maybe Archer as well

Geoff...I'll trust Schmidt's instincts a little while longer.

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

It's about testing out options for our future as much as it is about a game that we'd all like to win against Samoa.  One minute we want Schmidt to keep his eye on development, the next we're not so sure we mean it.

It's just that we're very weak in the second row as well- you'd want a good scrummaging lock behind a loosehead on his debut and that second row is very, very underwhelming. It really is not great. At all.

We talk about how Leinsters second row options aren't good enough to keep up their success now that Cullen is past his prime, that there's no Brad Thorn to parachute in, and then you see them in green- it's like a punch in the gut. We have nothing in the engine room and in that case, the front row will struggle.

It's just a reality check about the quality of players we have available. If that is our tight five... jeezus. It's not looking rosy!

Christ lads its one game! Even Deccie got 12 months before the knives came out!

If Schmidt is planning to play both Marshall and Tuohy in the NZ/Australia games, then I am happy enough with this team.  He is going with what he knows and resting our best players.  With a few new caps there too.

I trust his judgement, if he believes this team has the ability to beat Samoa.  The second row pairing is very weak though.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't know why people are so worried about McGrath. He has already proven himself against the likes of Adam Jones and was pushing Heinke all the way for a bench spot before Heinke got injured. I would be more worried about Ross against Mulipola.

Yeah, I have to say McGrath looks very good.

We are going to have 4 (possibly 5 if McAllister stays fit) very talented loose head props for Ireland over the years.

How quickly I begin to feel like Sin é.  It's only taken a first team announcement and people are telling him he can't coach?  

Sorry about Kidney, Sin.  Forgive me.... the hounds are now out for 'our' guy.... and they already smell blood before a ball is kicked.

SecretFly wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

It's about testing out options for our future as much as it is about a game that we'd all like to win against Samoa.  One minute we want Schmidt to keep his eye on development, the next we're not so sure we mean it.

Not at all you experiment in the right place where the players have a chance to shine

Marshall not D'Arcy
Tuohy not Toner
Marmion not Reddan

What we have done is sent out a front 5 that looks underpowered.
Tuohy and Healy would have gone a long way to mitigate that, maybe Archer as well

Geoff...I'll trust Schmidt's instincts a little while longer.  

No problem with that and don't get me wrong

I'll be there and cheering the guys on and hope I am eating some humble pie on Sunday   

Can't stop those nagging fears though

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

It's about testing out options for our future as much as it is about a game that we'd all like to win against Samoa.  One minute we want Schmidt to keep his eye on development, the next we're not so sure we mean it.

It's just that we're very weak in the second row as well- you'd want a good scrummaging lock behind a loosehead on his debut and that second row is very, very underwhelming. It really is not great. At all.

We talk about how Leinsters second row options aren't good enough to keep up their success now that Cullen is past his prime, that there's no Brad Thorn to parachute in, and then you see them in green- it's like a punch in the gut. We have nothing in the engine room and in that case, the front row will struggle.

It's just a reality check about the quality of players we have available. If that is our tight five... jeezus. It's not looking rosy!

Mike McCarthy is a good scrummaging lock.

Who's captain lads?

SecretFly wrote:How quickly I begin to feel like Sin é.  It's only taken a first team announcement and people are telling him he can't coach?

Feic off!

People aren't saying that. We're just concerned about the quality of the players he's picked. He'll likely get the best out of them, he's an excellent coach and is the right man to take Ireland forward. I'd just question how far forward we can go with an engine room like that. Two guys who I simply don't rate backing up a rookie loosehead could be a serious problem for us.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:If Schmidt is planning to play both Marshall and Tuohy in the NZ/Australia games, then I am happy enough with this team.  He is going with what he knows and resting our best players.  With a few new caps there too.

I trust his judgement, if he believes this team has the ability to beat Samoa.  The second row pairing is very weak though.

That's my hope.

I just worry he might be under estimating Samoa

rodders wrote:Christ lads its one game! Even Deccie got 12 months before the knives came out!

Rodders the voice of reason eh!

D'Arcy and that second row...  

It should be good enough for Samoa, I'm just hoping that this isn't going to be the team for Australia.

Notch wrote:
It's just a reality check about the quality of players we have available. If that is our tight five... jeezus. It's not looking rosy!

Ah here now I've being telling everyone we have a rubbish panel for yonks!

Christ if I was offered the wooden spoon for the 6N I'd bite your hand off! Silverware is silverware!

A good grannygate scandal a la Henry's Wales should get us going again!

All Hail Joe the redeemer!  

Mickado wrote:

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:Jack McGrath starting against Census Johnston with no decent scrummaging locks behind him. I am now officially terrified about what this game holds. Just hope Census is out injured or something. Jeezus that is a weak tight five!

It's about testing out options for our future as much as it is about a game that we'd all like to win against Samoa.  One minute we want Schmidt to keep his eye on development, the next we're not so sure we mean it.

It's just that we're very weak in the second row as well- you'd want a good scrummaging lock behind a loosehead on his debut and that second row is very, very underwhelming. It really is not great. At all.

We talk about how Leinsters second row options aren't good enough to keep up their success now that Cullen is past his prime, that there's no Brad Thorn to parachute in, and then you see them in green- it's like a punch in the gut. We have nothing in the engine room and in that case, the front row will struggle.

It's just a reality check about the quality of players we have available. If that is our tight five... jeezus. It's not looking rosy!

Mike McCarthy is a good scrummaging lock.

Who's captain lads?

I agree re McCarthy - he loose play is poor though.
My 2nd row worry is whoever Toner is behind is in for a tough afternoon

geoff999rugby wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:If Schmidt is planning to play both Marshall and Tuohy in the NZ/Australia games, then I am happy enough with this team.  He is going with what he knows and resting our best players.  With a few new caps there too.

I trust his judgement, if he believes this team has the ability to beat Samoa.  The second row pairing is very weak though.

That's my hope.

I just worry he might be under estimating Samoa

There is no worry of that. Nobody under will under estimate Samoa after the season they had.