Welsh clubs back Anglo-French tournament

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24632135

Didn't see that coming, though I haven't been following this particularly closely.

quinsforever wrote:correct, i am not an accountant. have not claimed to be. accountants prepare accounts, investors read and analyse them. which is what i do, and have been doing for 20 years. so if you wanted me to prepare the IRFU's accounts i would not be able to help you, but if you're after understanding them, i can do that for you.

about 1/3 of each of the 3 competitive exams required for the CFA are accounting-related. do you really think i'm just making this stuff up?   

I think your 10-12 year forecast for the IRFU was a tad too speculative to be taken seriously.  And you made assumptions about the 'reserves' that were wrong.

Entertaining though!

quinsforever wrote:whole article and link. particularly love the line i have bolded below. undermines himself by being so definitive.

The final two spots in next season's proposed new Rugby Champions Cup will be decided by play-offs, one of the supporters of the competition said.

Bruce Craig, Bath chairman and vice-president of Premiership Rugby, told AFP they would happen in May to complete the 20 competing sides.

Following support from the Welsh regions, at present the Cup would involve those four teams and the England and France's best placed teams.

Craig was adamant that the rival tournament to the Heineken Cup would go ahead hence his announcement of the play-offs structure.

"It is for certain there will be play-offs for one or two places in May," said Craig.

At present the proposed make-up of the teams taking part in the breakaway tournament is six from the Aviva Premiership, six from the Top 14 and six from the RaboDirect PRO12.

"The play-offs could be made up of the teams that finish seventh or eighth in their respective championships," said Craig.

"The play-offs would be interesting matches, with something at stake, involving teams who normally by that stage of the season have nothing to play for."

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3825_8988122,00.html

It is for certain clear as mud. Nice to get such clarity on the matter.

anyway, guessing an announcement will be forthcoming anytime now...every time the prl/lnr/wrr have recently said anything its usually just before the unions say something... 

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:whole article and link. particularly love the line i have bolded below. undermines himself by being so definitive.

The final two spots in next season's proposed new Rugby Champions Cup will be decided by play-offs, one of the supporters of the competition said.

Bruce Craig, Bath chairman and vice-president of Premiership Rugby, told AFP they would happen in May to complete the 20 competing sides.

Following support from the Welsh regions, at present the Cup would involve those four teams and the England and France's best placed teams.

Craig was adamant that the rival tournament to the Heineken Cup would go ahead hence his announcement of the play-offs structure.

"It is for certain there will be play-offs for one or two places in May," said Craig.

At present the proposed make-up of the teams taking part in the breakaway tournament is six from the Aviva Premiership, six from the Top 14 and six from the RaboDirect PRO12.

"The play-offs could be made up of the teams that finish seventh or eighth in their respective championships," said Craig.

"The play-offs would be interesting matches, with something at stake, involving teams who normally by that stage of the season have nothing to play for."

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3825_8988122,00.html

It is for certain clear as mud. Nice to get such clarity on the matter.

it is for certain craig wont be getting invited round to TJ's for tea and cakes

quinsforever wrote:anyway, guessing an announcement will be forthcoming anytime now...every time the prl/lnr/wrr have recently said anything its usually just before the unions say something... 

Might be up to 2 weeks according to reports about reports. By then these forums will have went into meltdown  

Munchkin wrote:

TJ wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

So do you like him then?  

         

  I'm guessing no  

good guess. remove him and Wray from things and a solution is much nearer

nerves are definitely getting shredded. that being said it seems fairly civil so far (apart from an incident yesteray morning that i missed while i was traveling).

i think the meltdown will come after the unions and erc make whatever announcement should be coming after their mtg today...

quinsforever wrote:anyway, guessing an announcement will be forthcoming anytime now...every time the prl/lnr/wrr have recently said anything its usually just before the unions say something... 

Well, we're still waiting for a reaction from Unions (specifically the Welsh one) in wake of the Regions statement.  And now a new one from another independent single entity privately owned club.

It seems very strange that so many bodies remain silent as regions and certain clubs keep drip feeding.  You'd assume if agreement was on the cards, someone would be phoning someone and telling them to shut up.

This crisis of confidence seems to be running along the same lines as player transfer events.  You know how it goes - the club's best player is in talks to leave his club.  Shock, horror - much more money being offered by another club.  He's on his way.  It's signed - that's it, he's gone.  Oh wait, he's happy training with mates having just signed a three year extention last week.

This is just all up in the air like that.  Just as you might expect an absolute revolution (and most people seem to be feeling that), it might actually be yawns of "That was interesting.  Oh well, back to pretty much as we were"

Thing is - playoffs could be a solution - but not if the englisha nd french get six places and a chance in the playoffs. 5+6 in the AP and top14 play off with 4-8 in the rabo? Now that might be fairish

rubbish - not fair at all. 6/6/6 is the only fair way to split 18 between 3. Or can't you count?

Hubert Davenport wrote:rubbish - not fair at all. 6/6/6 is the  only fair way to split 18 between 3. Or can't you count?

Brilliant! That's the kind of quality post this thread has been aching for.

Hubert Davenport wrote:rubbish - not fair at all. 6/6/6 is the  only fair way to split 18 between 3. Or can't you count?

apart from its 6 unions not 3 leagues numptybaws

Hubert Davenport wrote:rubbish - not fair at all. 6/6/6 is the  only fair way to split 18 between 3. Or can't you count?

I think it might be division rather than 'counting'. Do we have a qualified accountant that could confirm?

Hubert Davenport wrote:rubbish - not fair at all. 6/6/6 is the  only fair way to split 18 between 3. Or can't you count?

Some of us can't, some of us with number crunching qualifications can.  Take your pick.  There are some CVs above.

Hubert Davenport wrote:rubbish - not fair at all. 6/6/6 is the  only fair way to split 18 between 3. Or can't you count?

Hubert, don't suppose you'd care to respond to my post with a load of questions just after lunch today about what 'meritocratic qualification' really means?

Casartelli wrote:

Hubert Davenport wrote:rubbish - not fair at all. 6/6/6 is the  only fair way to split 18 between 3. Or can't you count?

I think it might be division rather than 'counting'.  Do we have a qualified accountant that could confirm?

 

If Michael Corcoran is right it looks like a serious climb down for the unions. Revenue split 3 ways equally. 6/6/7 in terms of teams in the top competition with a playoff for last place. 1 place per country guaranteed.

2nd tier made up of rest of the three leagues with a couple of smaller teams 'invited'

3rd tier to be discussed.

Didn't mention anything regarding governance of the competition

I should mention this isn't confirmed or indeed it is unclear if this is a proposal for the PRL for the unions to join the RCC. Off I were the PRL though I would be happy with that depending on what is agreed regarding votes etc

From Walesonline:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/erc-chiefs-propose-new-heineken-6238287

Statement issued on behalf of independent mediators Graeme Mew and Stephen Drymer

On Wednesday and Thursday (23 and 24 October 2013) we facilitated a meeting of representatives of the six national rugby unions in Dublin.

Progress has been made on a number of issues relating to the future of European club rugby competition.

The meeting concluded with consensus among those present on two key principles of competition format and distribution of revenues, and with agreement to meet again very shortly.

Competitions Format

There is consensus that there should continue to be two professional European club rugby tournaments, with each tournament consisting of 20 clubs. A third tier European tournament should also be considered.

The Primary Competition would be made up of 20 clubs, with six each from PRL and the LNR, and seven from the Pro12 tournament. The clubs would come through meritocratic qualification from their respective leagues. In the case of the Pro12, there will be at least one club guaranteed from each country.

In year one, the 20th place would be allocated through a play-off match between the 7th placed PRL and LNR clubs. For the following years, the 20th club would qualify through a play-off between the 7th placed PRL and LNR clubs and the two next non-qualified Pro12 clubs. The winner of the secondary competition would qualify to participate in the play-off match, if not already qualified by right.

The English and French clubs would have home advantage in the play-offs against the Pro12 clubs.

The Secondary Competition which would consist of up to 20 clubs, made up of the remaining 18 PRL, LNR and Pro12 clubs. Two places could be allocated to clubs qualifying from a third competition.

Distribution of Revenues

There is also consensus that distributable revenues generated through the competitions would be divided one third, one third, one third per league with the stipulation that monies to be received by the Pro12 countries would not be less than the current levels.

Next Steps

At our suggestion, all parties agreed to meet with us again on Friday, 1 November 2013 to discuss the implementation of these principles together with important issues related to operations and governance.

The English and French clubs would have home advantage in the play-offs against the Pro12 clubs.

n year one, the 20th place would be allocated through a play-off match between the 7th placed PRL and LNR clubs.

these two are unnacceptable

To you maybe but it seems not to the Unions

Did they say who is going to win the first four seasons of the competition?  Maybe that'll come after the next meeting.

SecretFly wrote:Did they say who is going to win the first four seasons of the competition?  Maybe that'll come after the next meeting.

That's easy - it'll be the team from the city that the new organisation is based in.  

SecretFly wrote:Did they say who is going to win the first four seasons of the competition?  Maybe that'll come after the next meeting.

Rumour has it that detail has yet to be agreed. The Franglos want 1.33 winners from each league but the Celtalians want to guarantee 0.66 winners from each union.

Engine#4 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Did they say who is going to win the first four seasons of the competition?  Maybe that'll come after the next meeting.

Rumour has it that detail has yet to be agreed. The Franglos want 1.33 winners from each league but the Celtalians want to guarantee 0.66 winners from each union.

V good

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Did they say who is going to win the first four seasons of the competition?  Maybe that'll come after the next meeting.

That's easy - it'll be the team from the city that the new organisation is based in.  

I get you. So in brief, "Home Advantage" seems to be the new buzz term attached to the new competiton

only thing missing in all that lovely consensus is the 30 teams from AP/LNR/WRR

will be interesting to see whether the continuance of ERC is a dealbreaker.

and maybe i read the walesonline piece too fast, but who would be doing the TV coverage, and is it SKY's deal or BT's deal (more money allegedly).

still some way to go, but at least the positions on qualification and money distribution seem to have converged.

just re-read it. conspicuous lack of mention of either BT or SKY

broadlandboy wrote:To you maybe but it seems not to the Unions

Moreover, given that neither the PRL or LNR were present at the meeting that this has emerged from, it has indeed been devised by the unions.

WRU offering central contracts to the regions now!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24647172

Some more food thrown in to this feeding frenzy of a thread.

tigerleghorn wrote:WRU offering central contracts to the regions now!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24647172

Some more food thrown in to this feeding frenzy of a thread.

Sorry guys, old news....move on

I'm surprised nobody has touched more upon the WRU central contracts. I don't believe that once contracted they'll hand over the players back to the Regions. I don't think they should either.

I just mentioned it on the international thread, but my query (if central contracts were to be permanent) is it affects the rest of the region's funding and their payroll. e.g. if the ospreys have 10 players centrally contracted (likely) then they will suddenly have around £1.2m (guess) off their payroll. The dragons in contrast may only have 2 players, and a payroll reduction of maybe £240k max. So the dragons have to find a lot more money than the Ospreys. Are they helped out, or does one club get less additional funding from the union to help balance it out - otherwise I suspect the Dragons could go bust, while the Ospreys with actually make a tidy profit!

Just to add, my point above is assuming that the WRU do not fund us the way they do currently AND pay for central contracts too. That would be generous!