Gatland on dropping O'Driscoll

First topic message reminder :

http://rugbyonslaught.blogspot.ie/2013/10/gatland-we-dropped-odriscoll-because.html

Speaking last week Gatland said that BOD was dropped because his legs had went in the last 15 mins of the second test and this was due to the Wallabies attacking his channel.

It seems strange considering a lot of players in the modern game only last that long and under less pressure

Speaking of Hawking - anyone else believe that in a alternate universe BOD started the 3rd test?

= envious for having missed out

Taylorman wrote:

oh is it gatland...cant keep up with these overseas coaches...

Is that a joke or are you being smug?

Taylorman wrote:
No, never have had anything against BOD, its the blind obsession of playing him above any other logic that kiwis (albeit only 2 or 3 of us) jump on the bandwagon for. Irish fans will select BOD in any side right up until the very day he embarrasses himself on the field, wanting to extract every last moment out of the guy for their very own self fulfilling need...then when he has that day say...oh well..it was good while it lasted.

Its idiotic comments like this that earn you the title of prize troll. There is plenty of logic for selecting him and it has been pieced together for your benefit on this thread and and others ad nauseum over and over again. That said it is perfectly fair for pro Davies fans to piece their logic together for his inclusion. You arent capable of doing this or understanding any of the debating points from what I can tell so its quite difficult to take you seriously.

Taylorman wrote:

We will probably play Ben Smith and Nonu vs Ireland and head to head BOD has everything on Smith as a Centre but in terms of being a back in rugby in 2013 Smith is streets ahead and will likely show BOD up here.

Well Smith is a contender for world player of the year so I expect anyone who plays centre will have a tough time. The fact that you are completly and utterly clueless as to what the options behind BOD for the 13 position makes debating this with you pretty pointless. Good opportunity for you to be smug again though.

Taylorman wrote:

So its a serious question- does Schmidt select BOD, or does he go for another centre this AI's, with a view to the upcoming 6N and WCup in 15. Schmidt is there for the future, not the past. Where are Irish fans placed in this respect?

And if you think this is still about trolling, or nothing new guns... then I would suggest you have truly lost the plot.

Schmidt convinced BOD to stay another year so it would seem likely that he wants him to play a part in the AIs. You have been told this before but continue to post fairly stupid comments.

poor old guns...sticking to his guns...perhaps the germs have proved more invasive than we thought. Your persistent view of why BOD should have been selected was purely one sided and at no point considered the potential of the pairing of Davies and Roberts being a better option as a centre pairing.

You focussed purely on unique incidents rather than the overall consideration of the likelihood of JR improving the centre combination and given that JDs pairing with him a more likely better selection in the end- proven correctly in the end.

You went for BOD over JD, Ireland over Wales as your first consideration- you may have had valid points, but that was the basis of your argument.

And even now you continue with the blinkers on.

I think the question of BOD's role in the Ireland team from here on is a fair one actually, and I'm not trying to wind anyone up. All teams are selecting currently with a view to the World Cup, and it's a fair question to Schmidt as to whether he should be blooding a viable alternative at 13 in case BOD can't make it.

I wonder if they've discussed it privately. I'm sure they have a pretty decent relationship and this will be a big one for Schmidt to manage. As we've seen (albeit in a different context with the Lions), if BOD is fit and isn't picked, the media will be all over it.

I guess the issue for Ireland is that they may have to overhaul both centre positions, and I don't think there's a natural or obvious combination in waiting.

Do Irish fans think D'Arcy and BOD will be the best combination come the WC?

Taylorman wrote:poor old guns...sticking to his guns...perhaps the germs have proved more invasive than we thought. Your persistent view of why BOD should have been selected was purely one sided and at no point considered the potential of the pairing of Davies and Roberts being a better option as a centre pairing.

Nope I see merit in selecting Davies but felt O'Driscoll was playing better and was obvious choice for team captain when Warburton got injured. I have already given all my reasons so no need to repeat.

Taylorman wrote:
You focussed purely on unique incidents rather than the overall consideration of the likelihood of JR improving the centre combination and given that JDs pairing with him a more likely better selection in the end- proven correctly in the end.

No I focused largely on the test matches, in other words form. Roberts and O'Driscoll have also proved to be a very effective pairing in the past.

Taylorman wrote:

You went for BOD over JD, Ireland over Wales as your first consideration- you may have had valid points, but that was the basis of your argument.

And even now you continue with the blinkers on.

At least I can admit that Davies is an excellent player. You are incable of judging BOD without prejudice.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think the question of BOD's role in the Ireland team from here on is a fair one actually, and I'm not trying to wind anyone up. All teams are selecting currently with a view to the World Cup, and it's a fair question to Schmidt as to whether he should be blooding a viable alternative at 13 in case BOD can't make it.

I wonder if they've discussed it privately. I'm sure they have a pretty decent relationship and this will be a big one for Schmidt to manage. As we've seen (albeit in a different context with the Lions), if BOD is fit and isn't picked, the media will be all over it.

I guess the issue for Ireland is that they may have to overhaul both centre positions, and I don't think there's a natural or obvious combination in waiting.

Do Irish fans think D'Arcy and BOD will be the best combination come the WC?

Hello all. This is my first post but been I've been following the site for a while.

I don't think D'Arcy & BOD will be Ireland's first choice centre partnership come the WC. I believe Jared Payne will be BOD's replacement. He will be IQ next year (I think), and has been playing there more and more regularly for Ulster, which I would guess is at the request of the IRFU. I think its a bit too early to try to predict who will play 12.

Never said BOD wasnt an excellent player, nor is this a JD vs BOD issue so however complementary you wish to be about Davies is up to you though irrelevant. Selecting a team isnt just about form, its also about what could be. Its just that you formed you basis on form simply because BOD was already there. Selection is about being a citic of form as well as being a visionary about what could be. My suggestion is that if you were selecting there would be no consideration of the latter. For you it would be merely about justifying BODs selection with no thought of his not being part of the side.

Gats was able to at least break that thinking and made what seems to be a bold choice, although I think that is really more about respect to BOD and fans, when it was actually also the right choice...and I say that purely from hindsight... as I too dont possess the level of thinking that Gatland did in this respect.

You still think Gatlands side won in spite of the non BOD selection when its obvious he won partly because of it- simply put that pair went better than any other- regardless of woulda could shoulda..test 3 had the best centre pairing...by far.

rodders wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

rodders wrote:Wood and McBride aren't neutral so I don't care what there reaction was.

I am talking about the reaction of Carter (NZ), Carling (Eng), Barnes (Eng), Giteau(OZ) amongst many others ignoring Irish or Welsh reaction - although Garth Edwards was also critical.

Its all pretty verifiable what the reaction was.

Some supported the decision to drop BOD, others didn't. I don't think you can claim any sort of consensus I'm afraid, and certainly not by listing five people.

I'm not claiming a consensus based on 5 people. Are you being deliberately pedantic? Do you really expect me to find every quote? This is very easy to verify or rebuke using google....or look back at the threads here. Those supporting the selection were very much in the minority. If my memory deceives me then I am happy to apologise but I'm fairly confident in my recollection of the events of that week.

Thanks Rodders, that makes me feel quite special.

Gatland says in the video when talking about the reasons for dropping BOD "....but you don't make that publicly known." The obvious question then is why is he saying it in a public forum?

Possibly because he was in a public forum, and was asked about it?

As a manager in any business you need to be discreet. Rugby is no different. Because he is asked a question does not mean he has to answer it.

If it is OK to answer the question then he should have been honest from the start.

Y'all must've forgot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWCuODjCXCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMOIASKueXA

rodders wrote:Y'all must've forgot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWCuODjCXCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMOIASKueXA

I can see now what Gatland saw in training.

Sorry Gats, that man was not up to playing full-on serious man's rugby against the Aussies. You woz right all along.

Jeez,
Four months have gone by. Time to let go, kids.
I don't care if you consider Gatland to be a prince amongst men or the fat incarnation of Gollum. When the DVD is out it is the official time to put it to rest.
Methinks.

Four months?
Is that all?

I'm so so disappointed my anger levels went down so quickly. I'm only on 37.89 capacity now, which is a terribly ineffective level to be at on any GatBOD thread.

doctor_grey wrote:Jeez,
Four months have gone by.  Time to let go, kids.  
I don't care if you consider Gatland to be a prince amongst men or the fat incarnation of Gollum.  When the DVD is out it is the official time to put it to rest.  
Methinks.

But what if Ireland beat Australia, through five Brian O'Driscoll tries?

It was July 6, mate. I watched the third test this afternoon, and that's the date indicted on my recording. And I always believe everything if it is electronic. Resistance is futile.

Get some sleep. In the morn take some Barrocca, a double espresso, and a couple of fags. I guarantee you will be fighting fit for the next round.
Trust me.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Jeez,
Four months have gone by.  Time to let go, kids.  
I don't care if you consider Gatland to be a prince amongst men or the fat incarnation of Gollum.  When the DVD is out it is the official time to put it to rest.  
Methinks.

 But what if Ireland beat Australia, through five Brian O'Driscoll tries?

Then the time-space continuim is all fecked, O'Driscoll ascends to heaven in the beam of gentle white light. Gatland ends up in a drinkfest with Mike Phillips and James O'Connor.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Jeez,
Four months have gone by.  Time to let go, kids.  
I don't care if you consider Gatland to be a prince amongst men or the fat incarnation of Gollum.  When the DVD is out it is the official time to put it to rest.  
Methinks.

 But what if Ireland beat Australia, through five Brian O'Driscoll tries?

Davies will obviously score six, being the better player and all that.

BOD was amazing. WAS. gatland won a lions series. WON. these are facts. the future we can all enjoy unburdened by historical facts. can everyone please STFU!

Quite right.  This topic has gone on way too long. ...Next issue:

Was BOD betrayed by Gatland?

Orderly queue please.  There'll be plenty of hot heads that want their say on this one but there'll be plenty of time.  I'd expect four days should take care of it...and then onto the next topic:

Did Gatland screw BOD? (which will be a post watershed discussion of course) Over 18s.

i think you are included in everyone SF

OK have just rewatched the second test in slow motion from the 64th minute when Halfpenny scores the penalty to put the Lions 15-9 up, paying attention specifically to the crucial 8 minute period up until Hoopers try in the 73rd minute, in particular O'Driscolls defensive position and contribution in said period.

I'd love to share my conclusions with you on this, in regards to the OP, but its best people watch for themselves....

On to the next topic - Was BOD betrayed by Gatland ......  well that would suggest Gats was to be trusted in the first instance.....

I should hope so, Quins!  37.89 anger capacity might not be satisfactory but it's still functional.

Oh I mean to have my say okay.  'Never miss a good row' is my motto.  Although I see people still make personal appearances who profess a dislike of them

SecretFly wrote:Quite right.  This topic has gone on way too long. ...Next issue:

Was BOD betrayed by Gatland?

Orderly queue please.  There'll be plenty of hot heads that want their say on this one but there'll be plenty of time.  I'd expect four days should take care of it...and then onto the next topic:

Did Gatland screw BOD? (which will be a post watershed discussion of course) Over 18s.

Why cant we just jump down to the part where Gatty and O'Driscoll have an affair?

Stuff the orderly queue business.

Getting to the good bits early would require a .. fee.  

Quins is cashier, and he passes the profits on to PRL - which works out for all of us.

Part of being a legend of a team sport is knowing when you're holding the team back and stepping aside.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Part of being a legend of a team sport is knowing when you're holding the team back and stepping aside.

I wouldn't be so drastic.  It wasn't that bad.  I wouldn't call for him to step aside.

He just should have let them off the leash earlier, that's all ... like in the first and second tests.  

He's still a good coach but yeah, you're right, he was holding them back until the final test.

Taylorman wrote:Never said BOD wasnt an excellent player, nor is this a JD vs BOD issue so however complementary you wish to be about Davies is up to you though irrelevant. Selecting a team isnt just about form, its also about what could be. Its just that you formed you basis on form simply because BOD was already there. Selection is about being a citic of form as well as being a visionary about what could be. My suggestion is that if you were selecting there would be no consideration of the latter. For you it would be merely about justifying BODs selection with no thought of his not being part of the side.

Gats was able to at least break that thinking and made what seems to be a bold choice, although I think that is really more about respect to BOD and fans, when it was actually also the right choice...and I say that purely from hindsight... as I too dont possess the level of thinking that Gatland did in this respect.

You still think Gatlands side won in spite of the non BOD selection when its obvious he won partly because of it- simply put that pair went better than any other- regardless of woulda could shoulda..test 3 had the best centre pairing...by far.

An asthmatic ant could have played in the centres in the last test and it wouldn't have changed who won.

The best centre performance I saw on the tour (admittedly against WF) was Tuilagi and O'Driscoll.  They showed very good understanding of each other, especially that early on in the series with barely a week together.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Part of being a legend of a team sport is knowing when you're holding the team back and stepping aside.

And here was me thinking all those AB legends were heading to Japan and France for the money!  

Lol, another article on Gats dropping BOD and it gets to 4 pages of Irish whinging again (and will likely reach/surpass 2000+ comments). Gats is obviously a member of this forum and only dropped BOD for the laughs. He's still laughing 4 months on .

nth...you make the usual mistake...'wouldnt have'- despite ignoring the very part you highlighted- woulda coulda shoulda.
Did you know that for a fact going into the 3rd test? Based on the first two tests where asthmatic ants probably did play a part?
No. Gatland somehow did.
You can hardly use hindsight for your comment on selections. Coaches dont get to enjoy that luxury. Yet it seems to be the predominant argument with this issue.

The Saint wrote:Lol, another article on Gats dropping BOD and it gets to 4 pages of Irish whinging again (and will likely reach/surpass 2000+ comments). Gats is obviously a member of this forum and only dropped BOD for the laughs. He's still laughing 4 months on .

Bit ambitious with your numbers there Saint.

The last couple of Gattland -v - O'Driscoll threads ran for 20 pages each at approx 50 comments per page, we should max out at about a 1,000. Dont ask me how I know this.

"wouldn't have" v "obvious...partly because of"

Given that both situations weren't played out you can't for a fact say that the result was because of or inspite of selection, just that it happened and these were the circumstances when it did.  If it's a mistake, then we've both made it.


In reality though, if you think the centres came close to dictating who won the last test, you weren't watching properly.

Is this crap still going on??!!!

Cut it out!  We've had enough.  We're sick listening to it.  The Irish sure do know how breathe the living will out of a f**king dead-end topic!!!!!!!!!  The Devil himself would die of boredom listening to all the gramophone bleedin' Irish complaining about the f**king heat in their Hellish non-air-conditioned apartments!


Thread Stats so far:

Approx 185 posts

Approx 79 Irish posts

Approx 106 sundry posts from sundry parts of the world (namely, NZ, Wales, England, Scotland etc)

Could the sundries please give it a rest!!  Us Irish are knackered listening to you all grumbling on and on...and on.  

A truely dominant performance by the sundries, and its not even half time.

quinsforever wrote:BOD was amazing. WAS. gatland won a lions series. WON. these are facts. the future we can all enjoy unburdened by historical facts. can everyone please STFU!

Yep, he was pretty amazing against Wales earlier this year.

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5umGrR1jQnw

He was just as instrumental in this game too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcmHajpPCg4

On another note, is scoring a try/setting up a try against Wales the criteria for being the best in the world nowadays? That's the impression I'm getting from the Irish...

You have to beat the best to be the best!  

The Saint wrote:He was just as instrumental in this game too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcmHajpPCg4

On another note, is scoring a try/setting up a try against Wales the criteria for being the best in the world nowadays? That's the impression I'm getting from the Irish...

Clearly. Though it's only some of the Irish, to be fair. It's a bit like saying the West Brom goal scorers (from when they beat Man Utd this season) are better than Van Persie, as he didn't score that day. Little bit clutching at straws for my liking.

maybe without BOD, Ireland will be able to get more than 3 points this yeat in the 6N

GunsGerms wrote:

Taylorman wrote:You focussed purely on unique incidents rather than the overall consideration of the likelihood of JR improving the centre combination and given that JDs pairing with him a more likely better selection in the end- proven correctly in the end.

No I focused largely on the test matches, in other words form. Roberts and O'Driscoll have also proved to be a very effective pairing in the past.

So for a series-deciding Test match, you'd have gone for a centre pairing last seen four years ago?

The proof is in the pudding as they say. And Gatland delivered the Savoy Truffle.

Hard to believe the petty selfish deluded reaction still being insisted on by some Irish fans. Even Keith wood had the dignity to apologise and admit he was wrong. Maybe flow his lead?

Cream tangerine,
And Montelimar...

The longer this goes on the more I'm thinkingconvinced this is Gavin Henson related.

Did someone say Henson?!  

Oh Cyril

He's the ONLY man known in rugby history who can create this much drama, out of this little, and keep people talking about it.

It stinks of Henson.

Classic Henson manouveres.

You might want to edit that again.

It does reek of Henson.

I thought he was too busy with his roles at the PRL and BT Sport but, fair play, the guy can multi-task.

He even had time to go out on the lash with Mikey P.