Eng v Aus match thread + build up

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

First topic message reminder :

Chance to chat about the game.
I think it will be a real cracker with England to take it by around 8 points or more.
I know every game is important but the management must have this penciled in as a must win because they can win it if they play it right.

[butterfingers]

Jayzus, so much antagonism across nations here. Some dubious decisions from the officials in a turgid game. Why the hatred towards England? If we are as rubbish as everyone seems to think we're no threat right?

So sad to see in Rugby.

England certainly appear to be one of the "luckier" teams in world rugby,
Especially at home.

It's the fear of "luck" I believe that causes such consternation.

On the whole I thought England were sloppy and disjointed and didn't offer much other than one off bulky ball runners. Passing seems an art form too far.

Australia showed their lack of belief by chasing the game too early rather than trusting the system that, "luck" aside was working.

I thought Australia got a hard time in the scrum, almost as if predetermined they were second best. We saw resets only when England were guilty of "slipping".

All in all a poor test match far from the quality we've seen recently.

100% agree, but then you can't see Lions quality rugby week in week out, sometimes you can only beat whats in front of you.

Out of interest GE, would you rather win dishonestly, with a big question mark over the ref's performance in a crucial game, or lose with your morals intact?

[doctor_grey]

I've got to go out for a few. Need to reflect for a while. We should start thinking about how we need to play next weekend and how the lineup changes.

Hopeful, we will be one big happy family together when I return.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXMkcYB7v7w

[Duty281]

Some people are bitter because England are once again leading the NH* in beating top SH sides.

And why does that matter? Because they hate England.

Well...jealously does that to you.

*Although I'm keeping my fingers tightly crossed that Wales beat the Saffers and Australia.

[Guest]

This has probably been discussed/asked elsewhere but I can't find it: is this game outside of the international window? If not, then why aren't the other 6 nations nations playing today?

[GloriousEmpire]

It's only swings and roundabouts when the roundabout comes
Around. I thought to myself at half time...the only way England will score is if they get a lucky bounce because they are constructing nothing. Then they got two lucky bounces - both brain bounces from
The officials.

Australia however failed to exploit the narrow English defence and Genia couldn't clear quickly enough to exploit England's desire to commit 15 men to every ruck.

I think referees will need to be wary of just what's going on when all those players converge at the breakdown. It seemed to me there was a lot of handling on the ground going on.

Take away the steady stream of ball handed to England in the scrum and it would be hard to see what they would've based possession and structure around.

I do think Wales are a more constructive team at the moment and with the set piece to deprive England of that ball.

I honestly can't see this England side troubling NZ unless they have more of that "luck". On a different topic, who is the ref for the NZ game? Hope its Joubert, he has a quicker eye for ruck disturbances.

[mystiroakey]

GE the great thing is England have so much luck dont they(as they keep winning) , so why is this 'luck' going to go away!

[butterfingers]

It's only swings and roundabouts when the roundabout comes
Around. I thought to myself at half time...the only way England will score is if they get a lucky bounce because they are constructing nothing. Then they got two lucky bounces - both brain bounces from
The officials.

Australia however failed to exploit the narrow English defence and Genia couldn't clear quickly enough to exploit England's desire to commit 15 men to every ruck.

I think referees will need to be wary of just what's going on when all those players converge at the breakdown. It seemed to me there was a lot of handling on the ground going on.

Take away the steady stream of ball handed to England in the scrum and it would be hard to see what they would've based possession and structure around.

I do think Wales are a more constructive team at the moment and with the set piece to deprive England of that ball.

I honestly can't see this England side troubling NZ unless they have more of that "luck".   On a different topic, who is the ref for the NZ game? Hope its Joubert, he has a quicker eye for ruck disturbances.

Kiwi in @Hope Joubert refs us' shocker!  

You don't seem to be answering my questions GE. Also why do you feel the need to make a mockery of your compatriates with this incesent line of horseplay?

[No 7&1/2]

lol. Loving some of these comments!

[Hood83]

To be fair, neither team was playing very well tonight.

England missed Parling, Lwaes took too long to address his line out calls to the back.

Their passing was indicative of a team wanting to offload in the tackle but it just didn't work, whether you want to out it down to a backline that hasn't played for a while, or inexperience.

Their forwards was stationary most of the time and never hit the ball at pace, it meant England didn't gain enough momentum to strike effectively out wide.

Australia was far to innacurate, their forwards didn't work collectively at the breakdown.

Genia at times took too long to clear at the base of the ruck.

Defensively both teams were never really under pressure.

The two fullbacks for me (Brown and Folau) were the two best players on the paddock.

Agree with most of this. Thought B Vunipola showed he can definitely play at this level. Our back-line still looks very, very average to me. We just have no invention.

[GloriousEmpire]

I'm making reasonable points dude.
Why don't you enter into the spirit.

I thought mike brown was solid at full back. But his apparent star quality seemed more a reflection on the lack of ability anywhere else.

Twelvetrees was humiliated in defense for the only legitimate try of the game, and Tomkins was so anonymous I hardly remember his name. It seemed utterly beyond England to string two passes together and other than their rolly-Polly Polynesian import I couldn't see anyone crossing the gain line.

Yarde aside from one lateral show of pace that found him predictably running into touch was naive and petulant and lucky not to get a yellow card for the kind of late no arms tackle that was punished so severely in the rugby championship.

The line out was a total shambles. Lawes again showing he lacks agility or the ability to think on the field.

[Sgt_Pooly]

It wasn't so much invention we lacked, it the ability to pass!

Early days in the AI's, we'll improve.

[Duty281]

I'm making reasonable points dude.
Why don't you enter into the spirit.

I thought mike brown was solid at full back. But his apparent star quality seemed more a reflection on the lack of ability anywhere else.

Twelvetrees was humiliated in defense for the only legitimate try of the game, and Tomkins was so anonymous I hardly remember his name. It seemed utterly beyond England to string two passes together and other than their rolly-Polly Polynesian import I couldn't see anyone crossing the gain line.

Yarde aside from one lateral show of pace that found him predictably running into touch was naive and petulant and lucky not to get a yellow card for the kind of late no arms tackle that was punished so severely in the rugby championship.

The line out was a total shambles. Lawes again showing he lacks agility or the ability to think on the field.

I loved your bitterness when England beat Australia in the cricket, and I love your bitterness now.

Go cry in the corner boy - ENGLAND!

[Sgt_Pooly]

"Twelvetrees was humiliated in defense for the only legitimate try of the game"

We scored 2 fine tries thank you GE

[Geordie]

Agree Sgt...at least we have a win.

Wonder if any of the other home.nations will be saying that by the end of the Ai's. Aside from possibly Scotland the only other team who have done it.... I highly doubt it....

[No 7&1/2]

Yeah. I noticed you were completely wrong about Brown GE. Getting close to that new account now isn't it?!  

[GloriousEmpire]

Thanks for those constructive comments mate.

Let's just all remember the roundabout and the swing when it swings around about and clobbers England in the future and exposes their lack of actual ability shall we?

[Hood83]

I'm making reasonable points dude.
Why don't you enter into the spirit.

I thought mike brown was solid at full back. But his apparent star quality seemed more a reflection on the lack of ability anywhere else.

Twelvetrees was humiliated in defense for the only legitimate try of the game, and Tomkins was so anonymous I hardly remember his name. It seemed utterly beyond England to string two passes together and other than their rolly-Polly Polynesian import I couldn't see anyone crossing the gain line.

Yarde aside from one lateral show of pace that found him predictably running into touch was naive and petulant and lucky not to get a yellow card for the kind of late no arms tackle that was punished so severely in the rugby championship.

The line out was a total shambles. Lawes again showing he lacks agility or the ability to think on the field.

Agree with most of this, no need for the crass Polynesian comment though.

At first glance I thought we were doing a good job at the rucks (albeit going off our feet a fair bit) but on second glance I realised it was because we'd committed 4 times as many players to each one, leaving us with a horribly narrow group of players outside.

[GloriousEmpire]

"Twelvetrees was humiliated in defense for the only legitimate try of the game"

We scored 2 fine tries thank you GE

A charge down from a line out you never should've had and a try awarded because there wasn't quite enough obstruction for sir Clancy of England you mean? They were fine? Golly. Lower standards than I even gave you credit for.

[lostinwales]

Sounds like something for everyone. A win for England and enough controversy to give the serial WUMS a heart attack. I'll look forward to seeing the highlights later

[nathan]

"Twelvetrees was humiliated in defense for the only legitimate try of the game"

We scored 2 fine tries thank you GE

A charge down from a line out you never should've had and a try awarded because there wasn't quite enough obstruction for sir Clancy of England you mean? They were fine? Golly. Lower standards than I even gave you credit for.

i shall remember this one GE for when NZ score a try just like it.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Just figured out what GE's real monica is

William Ugo Matterslittle.

So back to something that matters, what did we (England) learn from today:

Youngs throwing is still to dodgy to start an International, Hartley is better and more consistent

We have a lot of depth at prop, both LH and TH and Hartley adds more grunt than Youngs

Lawes and Launchbury are not powerful enough against a strong scummaging side (not Aus), much more power when Attwood replaced Launchbury

Lawes can call the line, even though he showed faith in Youngs on the long throw, once it went wrong twice he stopped.

Dickson and Farrell need more time together and Farrell needs to play more on the gain line, back to the old Farrell today

36 is not God son as a lot of people thought, Burrell may be a better option.

Tompkins, needs a lot more time playing for Sarries before he is let near an England shirt again

Brown is a lot better (and luckier) full back than winger

Yarde till very green and Ashton has not got any more tackling ability than last year.

The Vunipollo brother are awesome beasts.

Other than that, not a lot

[lostinwales]

I was just thinking, let he whose team has never won a controversial game cast the first stone....

[Sgt_Pooly]

Even me?!?!

There was nothing wrong with either England try.

Awful box kick from Genia and a great pickup from Robshaw for the first.

Cracking spot of the gap from Farrell and near finish.

That's all I seen.

[nathan]

Just figured out what GE's real monica is

William Ugo Matterslittle.

So back to something that matters, what did we (England) learn from today:

Youngs throwing is still to dodgy to start an International, Hartley is better and more consistent

We have a lot of depth at prop, both LH and TH and Hartley adds more grunt than Youngs

Lawes and Launchbury are not powerful enough against a strong scummaging side (not Aus), much more power when Attwood replaced Launchbury

Lawes can call the line, even though he showed faith in Youngs on the long throw, once it went wrong twice he stopped.

Dickson and Farrell need more time together and Farrell needs to play more on the gain line, back to the old Farrell today

36 is not God son as a lot of people thought, Burrell may be a better option.

Tompkins, needs a lot more time playing for Sarries before he is let near an England shirt again

Brown is a lot better (and luckier) full back than winger

Yarde till very green and Ashton has not got any more tackling ability than last year.

The Vunipollo brother are awesome beasts.

Other than that, not a lot

B. Youngs needs to start, Dickson wasn't very good, kicking was bad, passing was bad. The latter bit is what he was brought in for.

Agree Hartley looked better than T. Youngs so i'd start with him next match.

[majesticimperialman]

A good win for England in the end. A slow start, but seeing as this is the first test for England since the 6 nations. Not a bad win at all.

Lets see if momentem will carry the team forward next week.

Well played England.

[TJ]

Even me?!?!

There was nothing wrong with either England try.

Awful box kick from Genia and a great pickup from Robshaw for the first.

Cracking spot of the gap from Farrell and near finish.

That's all I seen.

the first there was only a lineout at the Aus line because the refs had missed brown in touch at the other end - so0 instead of a good ataccking lineout for Aus 5m out when their lineout and maul was on top there was a England attacking lineout 5 m out. Also a clear forwead pass in the pasage of play inbteween.

second one is less clear but a fairly blatant obstruction allowed to stand

enjoy your luck but don't pretend it was good play. England looked very poor with ball in hand

[nathan]

Even me?!?!

There was nothing wrong with either England try.

Awful box kick from Genia and a great pickup from Robshaw for the first.

Cracking spot of the gap from Farrell and near finish.

That's all I seen.

the first there was only a lineout at the Aus line because the refs had missed brown in touch at the other end - so0 instead of a good ataccking lineout for Aus 5m out when their lineout and maul was on top there was a England attacking lineout 5 m out.  Also a clear forwead pass in the pasage of play inbteween.

second one is less clear but a fairly blatant obstruction allowed to stand

enjoy your luck but don't pretend it was good play.  England looked very poor with ball in hand

your right the lineout shouldnt of been where it was, but the try wasnt scored there and then. England still had to put pressure on the lineout and score the try.

[Taylorman]

"Twelvetrees was humiliated in defense for the only legitimate try of the game"

We scored 2 fine tries thank you GE

A charge down from a line out you never should've had and a try awarded because there wasn't quite enough obstruction for sir Clancy of England you mean? They were fine? Golly. Lower standards than I even gave you credit for.

i shall remember this one GE for when NZ score a try just like it.

Nothing to do with NZ nathan. Difference betwen the sides is England were first up for a while. Oz werent. Theyve had all year, against better opponents to get this right. That they didnt makes the loss even worse for them.

England just had to pressure them into the odd mistake to win, and they made plenty, were never allowed to settle. This should see England in good measure for NZ but as NZ will have targeted this match some time ago, they should have too much for England. They beat oz 3 times easier than this this year and back to back wins by a home unions side over NZ? well...cant recall the last time that happened.

Good result to start with though.Sends tthe challenge out to both the SH and NH sides.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Yea we looked rusty but we won against a SH side, we'll improve.

I stand by nothing wrong with either try.

[majesticimperialman]

TJ

I agree England did look very poor with ball in hand. But like i have said, IT was Englands first game together since the 6ns. So i guess you could forgive them a little bit.

[Barney McGrew did it]

Congrats to England – we’ll always take a win against the SH. But for a game of 3rd vs 4th there was a serious lack of basic rugby skills.

Sorry TY but a hooker’s day-job is just not optional. Hartley back in please. Mind you I think we missed Parling here as well. In fact maybe SL could move TY to IC because 12T was a couple of trees short of a wood. Barritt when fit will stroll back into the side. And poor old Dickson looked like he was playing Sunday-league rugby. We’ll have Care back I think. Owen F had a bit too much of an unsettled game – a 9-point gift is just too much at this level (just as well he scored then). He needs to improve his consistency.

Of the 3 new boys only Billy showed he deserved to be there. Apart from the win and Mike Brown, the only real positives for England were the performance of the BR and the impact of the bench. And a bit of a mention for the 4 props I guess.

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

I expect three more big scalps from England over the next two seasons.
The last thing the IRB can have is a weak England hosting a World Cup, the IRB need English rugby to be popular with this money cow called the World cup on the horizon.

Needless to say why i predicted an English win today,i knew no matter what the powers to be would see it happen.

[nathan]

I expect three more big scalps from England over the next two seasons.
The last thing the IRB can have is a weak England hosting a World Cup, the IRB need English rugby to be popular with this money cow called the World cup on the horizon.

Needless to say why i predicted an English win today,i knew no matter what the powers to be would see it happen.

nobody cares what you expect or predict...

[Guest]

I've been a Wales supporter for nearly 60 years, and learned a long time ago that the performance and officiating may be important and up for discussion but the result is all-important and not up for discussion.  Ask any player involved in a game.  So well done England.  I hope Wales, Ireland and Scotland can also beat a SH side at home this autumn.  Let 'em win ugly, prettily,decisively or luckily - I just hope they win!

[BamBam]

I expect three more big scalps from England over the next two seasons.
The last thing the IRB can have is a weak England hosting a World Cup, the IRB need English rugby to be popular with this money cow called the World cup on the horizon.

Needless to say why i predicted an English win today,i knew no matter what the powers to be would see it happen.

Diddums 

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

TJ

I agree England did look very poor with ball in hand. But like i have said, IT was Englands first game together since the 6ns. So i guess you could forgive them a little bit.

So the trip to Argentina was a dream?

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

I expect three more big scalps from England over the next two seasons.
The last thing the IRB can have is a weak England hosting a World Cup, the IRB need English rugby to be popular with this money cow called the World cup on the horizon.

Needless to say why i predicted an English win today,i knew no matter what the powers to be would see it happen.

nobody cares what you expect or predict...

Nobody cares? my article and 14 pages in no one cares?

You been biting for hours now Nathan, i will put you out your misery and reel you in.

[nathan]

I expect three more big scalps from England over the next two seasons.
The last thing the IRB can have is a weak England hosting a World Cup, the IRB need English rugby to be popular with this money cow called the World cup on the horizon.

Needless to say why i predicted an English win today,i knew no matter what the powers to be would see it happen.

nobody cares what you expect or predict...

Nobody cares? my article and 15 pages in no one cares?

You been biting for hours now Nathan, i will put you out your misery and reel you in. 

your a few hours ahead of me though. hate to break it to you, but people arnt contributing to this thread because of your opinion.

[Geordie]

I've been a Wales supporter for nearly 60 years, and learned a long time ago that the performance and officiating may be important and up for discussion but the result is all-important and not up for discussion.  Ask any player involved in a game.  So well done England.  I hope Wales, Ireland and Scotland can also beat a SH side at home this autumn.  Let 'em win ugly, prettily,decisively or luckily - I just hope they win!

At last an honest intelligent poster. Few of them on here..

[DeludedOptimistorjustDave]

I expect three more big scalps from England over the next two seasons.
The last thing the IRB can have is a weak England hosting a World Cup, the IRB need English rugby to be popular with this money cow called the World cup on the horizon.

Needless to say why i predicted an English win today,i knew no matter what the powers to be would see it happen.

nobody cares what you expect or predict...

Nobody cares? my article and 15 pages in no one cares?

You been biting for hours now Nathan, i will put you out your misery and reel you in. 

your a few hours ahead of me though. hate to break it to you, but people arnt contributing to this thread because of your opinion.

Don't worry nathan,England won go have a drink and celebrate and stop arguing with some guy on the internet whom apparently "You don't care about" 

[Scrumpy]

IMO that Aus team was a step up from the shower of - that the Lions faced in the Summer, and they were battled hardened so well played England for turning them over.

Good solid win against SH opposition not to be sniffed at  

[GloriousEmpire]

Even me?!?!

There was nothing wrong with either England try.

Awful box kick from Genia and a great pickup from Robshaw for the first.

Cracking spot of the gap from Farrell and near finish.

That's all I seen.

There was nothing wrong with the charge down or the grounding for Robshaws try. But England should've been facing a line out on their own 5 meter line but for a refereeing blunder of epic proportion. Secondly I count five knock ons in England's progression up field as the simple art of passing catching let them down but was more than ably compensated by Clancy and his wayward assistants inability to spot any of them.

The second I'm afraid was blatant and obvious obstruction. As BT has pointed out, there isn't a sliding scale of "enough obstruction" there merely is or isn't. There was in this case.

[yappysnap]

Good win by England.

Got over the early rust and the nerves from going behind to come back and win it well.

Good D all game (bar a sloppy 10 mins) and control when needed.

For next week we need Hartley and Youngs starting. Not sure about 36 but he should be given another start, it'd be easier for him if Tomkins was better positionally. Yarde and Ashton need to up their games, Brown carried that back three (and happily made GE look even more the idiot).

Dickson showed he's a guality club player but doesn't have the extra spark to make it at Int level. He lacks the pace to threaten and can not kick or pass well enough to cause problems to the opposition defence.

[Cumbrian]

Just got in and not had a chance to read the inevitable bile on this thread. GET IN THERE|! Totally deserved it, there was no luck or controversy about it whatsoever, none. None at all. None. GET IN!

[yappysnap]

Just got in and not had a chance to read the inevitable bile on this thread.  GET IN THERE|! Totally deserved it,  there was no luck or controversy about it whatsoever, none.  None at all. None. GET IN!

+1
Love the hate coming in from the same old clowns

[Sgt_Pooly]

You play to the ref, anybody who has played the game knows this surely?

Refs make mistakes, we made the most out of the one today.

From the ball in touch (it was in touch from Brown), Aus fumbled their lineout and then Genia botched the box kick. They had ample opportunity to clear their lines.

[TJ]

I was disappointed with both Lawes and Twelvetrees. I was hoping for more. Brown maybe ebnhanced his reputation but very lucky a couple of times. Like his willingness to attack. Like his willingness to try the high risk play ( trying to keep kicks in) Ashton looked to be coming good but still sold himself in the tackle a couple of times. Farrell showed hes simply is not the answer at 10 unless all you want to do is play set piece and kick .No one really impressed bar perhaps Brown.

[Cumbrian]

Even me?!?!

There was nothing wrong with either England try.

Awful box kick from Genia and a great pickup from Robshaw for the first.

Cracking spot of the gap from Farrell and near finish.

That's all I seen.

There was nothing wrong with the charge down or the grounding for Robshaws try. But England should've been facing a line out on their own 5 meter line but for a refereeing blunder of epic proportion. Secondly I count five knock ons in England's progression up field as the simple art of passing catching let them down but was more than ably compensated by Clancy and his wayward assistants inability to spot any of them.

The second I'm afraid was blatant and obvious obstruction. As BT has pointed out, there isn't a sliding scale of "enough obstruction" there merely is or isn't. There was in this case.

Of course you did sweetheart.  

[Scrumpy]

"Farrell showed hes simply is not the answer at 10 unless all you want to do is play set piece and kick"

History has shown that brand of rugby works well in KO rugby like RWCs etc.... not great on the eye but can and does work at the highest level. England are never going to play like the All Blacks, stick to what you know imo.

[Cumbrian]

I was disappointed with both Lawes and Twelvetrees.  I was hoping for more.  Brown maybe ebnhanced his reputation but very lucky a couple of times.  Like his willingness to attack.  Like his willingness to try the high risk play ( trying to keep kicks in)  Ashton looked to be coming good but still sold himself in the tackle a couple of times.  Farrell showed hes simply is not the answer at 10 unless all you want to do is play set piece and kick  .No one really impressed bar perhaps Brown.

I agree about 36, he wasn't brilliant but I don't remember Lawes doing much wrong. Either way though, I don't believe that you can drop a player after one game. You've got to give them a chance to either prove or redeem themselves. They could get better if you give them the chance, same goes to Tomkins. They're on;y young lads trying to make their way into international rugby after all.

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