Scotland v Australia, 23 November

George Carlin wrote:
 
I just hope to sh!t that Cotter is a better selector.

George Carlin wrote:The press release suggests that it's Seymour they're waiting to confirm fitness.
 
Being able to start essentially an entire Glasgow backline (Cus, Weir, Seymour, Maitland, Lamont) alongside Taylor is potentially the best justification for starting their regular clubmate Mark Bennett.  
 
I had to look three times to realise that Beattie was playing blindside. Given that Denton played there a lot for Edinburgh, it's utterly bizarre that you wouldn't swap them round. I agree that there's a really dangerous lack of speed amongst the loosies, especially with Hooper who's bonkers-quick and who made O'Brien and Heaslip look like donkeys last week.
 
We are genuinely back in the rickety Andy Robinson selection clown car. I am delighted that Fozzy may be available for Glasgow against the Dragons, but I am very sorry for him that despite all of the warm words, apparently SJ doesn't want to play him in a match for which he is eminently suitable.
 
I just hope to sh!t that Cotter is a better selector.

MacKnocked-on wrote:Does seem odd that Denton and Beattie are listed at 8 and 6 respectively, but they at least can swap positions if need be after 20 minutes once it's been formally demonstrated through a variety of man sausage ups that they're both utterly confused.

George Carlin wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:Does seem odd that Denton and Beattie are listed at 8 and 6 respectively, but they at least can swap positions if need be after 20 minutes once it's been formally demonstrated through a variety of man sausage ups that they're both utterly confused.

 

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Whay don't they just make Ross Ford - the worst hooker in International Rugby (nth and sth) according to BloodandMud, he just beat Tom Youngs on that blog btw :shock:Christ he must be seriously gash ! - the Captain and build a team of useless lazier tw**s around him like Mrs Robinson tried to do.   Then we could laugh our cocks off until Big Bad Vern comes and sorts it out - too late for RWC2015 though!

A disgraceful selection !

tigertattie wrote:
 WTF. was Johnson out drinking with the Ozzies when he made these selections?

RDW_Scotland wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Whay don't they just make Ross Ford - the worst hooker in International Rugby (nth and sth) according to BloodandMud, he just beat Tom Youngs on that blog btw :shock:Christ he must be seriously gash ! - the Captain and build a team of useless lazier tw**s around him like Mrs Robinson tried to do.   Then we could laugh our cocks off until Big Bad Vern comes and sorts it out - too late for RWC2015 though!

A disgraceful selection !

Don't hide your feelings now 21st, get it all out in the open!  

tigertattie wrote:no one has mentioned Barclay yet!  He was disputed as being our best player last week.  Now he is not even on the bench?????????????????

Fusaro being in to get a shot I could handle.

Brown is a 6. Play him there ffs. Drop showboating Denton and put Beattie at 8 with Fusaro or Barclay at 7 coz they are 7's FFS!!!

We've already said Ford is gash so enoguh on that!

But come one SRU.  Lets get picking a team at least in thier own positions FFS

FFS I've said FFS a lot!

Its jsut so frustrating FFS

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

tigertattie wrote:no one has mentioned Barclay yet!  He was disputed as being our best player last week.  Now he is not even on the bench?????????????????

Fusaro being in to get a shot I could handle.

Brown is a 6. Play him there ffs. Drop showboating Denton and put Beattie at 8 with Fusaro or Barclay at 7 coz they are 7's FFS!!!

We've already said Ford is gash so enoguh on that!

But come one SRU.  Lets get picking a team at least in thier own positions FFS

FFS I've said FFS a lot!

Its jsut so frustrating FFS

Again am I the only one who thinks Denton has played well. He made his tackles, made decent yardage and wasn't turned over. What more do we want from a no.8?

Happy to see Beattie get a run at 8, but Denton hasn't played badly and certainly hasn't been showboating. He has made a lot of tackles in the last 2 games.

I agree though playing the Ozzies without a specialist 7 is a bit suicidal.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

tigertattie wrote:no one has mentioned Barclay yet!  He was disputed as being our best player last week.  Now he is not even on the bench?????????????????

Fusaro being in to get a shot I could handle.

Brown is a 6. Play him there ffs. Drop showboating Denton and put Beattie at 8 with Fusaro or Barclay at 7 coz they are 7's FFS!!!

We've already said Ford is gash so enoguh on that!

But come one SRU.  Lets get picking a team at least in thier own positions FFS

FFS I've said FFS a lot!

Its jsut so frustrating FFS

Again am I the only one who thinks Denton has played well. He made his tackles, made decent yardage and wasn't turned over. What more do we want from a no.8?

Happy to see Beattie get a run at 8, but Denton hasn't played badly and certainly hasn't been showboating. He has made a lot of tackles in the last 2 games.

I agree though playing the Ozzies without a specialist 7 is a bit suicidal.

Allan Massie, who is definitely one of the best journos out there, thought he had a very strong game.  I haven't watched it back on TV so can't really say.

Put it this way - there were plenty people on here after the SA game who listed him as one of the few to come out with his reputation intact.

George Carlin wrote:

And with Grant, Ford, Swinson, Beattie and Denton we're not going to be short of people fancying a carry.

tigertattie wrote:He doesnt do anything! He make the least number of tackles in the backrow (possibly even the pack) Why? beacuse he is out in the backline waiting for turnover ball to go on the "big" carry for the highlight reel. His "big" carries are not even that big.  He makes very little yardage.  He NEVER passes or offloads the ball so once he is tackled, momentum stops!

Perhaps i am being harsh on him? He is definatly limited though. Beattie is a better all round (passing, offloading and breakdown) player at 8 than Denton I feel

Captain_Sensible wrote:

tigertattie wrote:He doesnt do anything! He make the least number of tackles in the backrow (possibly even the pack) Why? beacuse he is out in the backline waiting for turnover ball to go on the "big" carry for the highlight reel. His "big" carries are not even that big.  He makes very little yardage.  He NEVER passes or offloads the ball so once he is tackled, momentum stops!

Perhaps i am being harsh on him? He is definatly limited though. Beattie is a better all round (passing, offloading and breakdown) player at 8 than Denton I feel

But, Beattie has barely played for his club this season. So picking him over Denton at the start of the AIs wouldn't have made any sense.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

tigertattie wrote:He doesnt do anything! He make the least number of tackles in the backrow (possibly even the pack) Why? beacuse he is out in the backline waiting for turnover ball to go on the "big" carry for the highlight reel. His "big" carries are not even that big.  He makes very little yardage.  He NEVER passes or offloads the ball so once he is tackled, momentum stops!

Perhaps i am being harsh on him? He is definatly limited though. Beattie is a better all round (passing, offloading and breakdown) player at 8 than Denton I feel

But, Beattie has barely played for his club this season. So picking him over Denton at the start of the AIs wouldn't have made any sense.

In addition it's easy to remember Beattie Rampaging around the park circa 2009-2010, but when was the last time he made a meaningful carry?

Denton is still pretty young and hungry for work. He certainly has had a good couple of games this Autumn and I think is worthy of playing again. At the expense of Barclay however is another matter.

As Reallybored said this could be a tactic to carry the ball more aggresively into contact and put the Ozzies and their potent poaching backrow on the backfoot.

As I have said the pack doesn't worry me as much as what our midfield might look like.

Majestic83 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

tigertattie wrote:He doesnt do anything! He make the least number of tackles in the backrow (possibly even the pack) Why? beacuse he is out in the backline waiting for turnover ball to go on the "big" carry for the highlight reel. His "big" carries are not even that big.  He makes very little yardage.  He NEVER passes or offloads the ball so once he is tackled, momentum stops!

Perhaps i am being harsh on him? He is definatly limited though. Beattie is a better all round (passing, offloading and breakdown) player at 8 than Denton I feel

But, Beattie has barely played for his club this season. So picking him over Denton at the start of the AIs wouldn't have made any sense.

In addition it's easy to remember Beattie Rampaging around the park circa 2009-2010, but when was the last time he made a meaningful carry?

Denton is still pretty young and hungry for work. He certainly has had a good couple of games this Autumn and I think is worthy of playing again. At the expense of Barclay however is another matter.

As Reallybored said this could be a tactic to carry the ball more aggresively into contact and put the Ozzies and their potent poaching backrow on the backfoot.

As I have said the pack doesn't worry me as much as what our midfield might look like.

I remember him making quite a few meaningful carries during the 6 nations and certainly put a few english players on their backsides at Twickenham.

tigertattie wrote:
A backline of ball hoofers and route one rugby players. kicking everything in our own half and then trying to sumo our way forward when we are in the Oz half!

OzT wrote:

tigertattie wrote:
A backline of ball hoofers and route one rugby players. kicking everything in our own half and then trying to sumo our way forward when we are in the Oz half!

That's worked before, specially if blowing a gale and raining buckets!!!  

George Carlin wrote:Just comparing this current crop to our 2009 vintage who beat the Wallabies:

R Lamont; S Lamont, Grove, Morrison (De Luca, 40), Danielli (Paterson, 63); Godman, Cusiter (R Lawson, 21); Jacobsen, Ford (Hall, 77), Low (Traynor, 57), Hines, Kellock, Strokosch (White, 48), Barclay, Beattie (Vernon, 63).

Surely to feck we're better off these days? In the backline, certainly?

GLove39 wrote:That is a hefty pack for Saturday.

Grant - 17st 7lb
Ford - 18st
Low - 19st 3lb
Swinson 18st 2lb
Hamilton - 19st 9lb
Beattie - 16st 5lb
Brown - 16st 10lb
Denton - 18st

Total wight = 143 stone

123456789 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Just comparing this current crop to our 2009 vintage who beat the Wallabies:

R Lamont; S Lamont, Grove, Morrison (De Luca, 40), Danielli (Paterson, 63); Godman, Cusiter (R Lawson, 21); Jacobsen, Ford (Hall, 77), Low (Traynor, 57), Hines, Kellock, Strokosch (White, 48), Barclay, Beattie (Vernon, 63).

Surely to feck we're better off these days? In the backline, certainly?

That pack is quite decent to be honest, Ford was ten times the player he is now (that's not an exaggeration, I think it's quite generous, Andy Robinson has a lot to answer for- some people aren't meant to be captains and Ford was one of them, he hasn't recovered since), Jacobsen was pretty impressive and probably on par with Grant now (except Grant can catch a ball). I'd take Murray over Low, Gray over Kellock and Brown over Strockosch. Hines was a fantastic player and I don't think we had any idea how good he was until he retired and we missed him. In fact Hines offloading could be fantastic combined with our backs and Richie Gray. As for the backs I think we know now how Townsend managed to be effective at Glasgow but not at Scotland, that backline is defensively solid but incredibly limited. We've also come a long way from the panic when Graeme Morrison got injured before the 2011 six nations.

A combination in the pack of the two teams would surely be:

1. Grant
2. Ford (2009)
3. Murray
4. Hines
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Barclay (2010)
8. Beattie (2010)

GLove39 wrote:Is it just me or are both coaches doing a sort of weird one upmanship to see who can weaken their team the most for Saturday?

Mckenzie got in early by banning 5 players.
So Scott responds by selecting Ford. And simultaneously not selecting any opensides in the entire team.
The big question now, is what can Mckenzie do to better that?

However, rather than give him another chance, the coaches have restored Kelly Brown to the No 7 jersey. ‘Mr Consistency’ was always going to return, but for Alasdair Strokosch on the blindside, the players having been told that they would be given two autumn games each and not asked to back up Test matches of ferocious intensity inside six days.

Instead, it is regular No 8 Johnnie Beattie who will wear the six jersey against the Wallabies with Brown in the position Johnson admitted last week did not suit him best. David Denton stays at No 8 as his education continues. That is especially intriguing against a team like Australia, who have made an art out of developing smaller, skilful opensides like George Smith, Phil Waugh, David Pocock and now Michael Hooper, for whom scrambling around on the ground, sticking heads and hands into rucks and causing mayhem, is the equivalent of being handed the keys to a sweet shop.

Key to Australia’s game are the players that oil the machinery and turn the ball-winning of the front five into the ball-running of the hugely skilful backs. So why would Scotland opt for three stand-up, physical players, ignoring the claims of Glasgow flanker Chris Fusaro, and play their best ball player, Beattie, in the jersey usually occupied by the biggest bludgeon?

“We tried to go there [blindside] with Kelly,” said Johnson, “but we’ve got some bumps so Kelly’s doing this for the team. It wasn’t perfect for our plans, but it is an opportunity to have a look at Johnnie on the side too. He’s played a bit of seven at age-grade so we want to have a look at left and right.”

In other words, rather than sticking to openside or blindside Beattie and Brown will effectively play both, which is not a familiar Scottish tactic. Johnson denied he was stretching his team’s shape simply to find space for his skipper, and said that had he not warranted a start he would not have got one.

“We’d like better competition in the seven area. I’m not hiding from that. Sometimes we just have to look at how we play the sevens. [Australia] play sevens that are very hard on the ball and we get that. We’re trying to find kids that are real quality on the ball and if we can’t get that then we have to find guys who can do other things.”

What about Fusaro?

“He’s just not there yet. I’ve told him that in certain areas of his game he has to improve. At the moment he’s not winning the 50-50 competitions that he should be winning on a regular basis against the big boys.

“It’s a very similar conversation I had with Phil Waugh many years ago,” said the former Wallabies coach. “When you are a player like that you have to make sure that your skill set is at an elite level, when that’s your bread and butter, and right at the moment we’ve looked at all the games and he’s doing really well, and is a kid we really like, but in that area of the game he has to keep getting better and better.

“When he strikes it and is far better than anyone else then Chris Fusaro is in our plans, and rest assured he’s part of the growth of this team as well. He just has to get better.”

He continued: “The competition that exists for sport in Australia puts pressure on them to play a certain way. It’s no coincidence that over the last decade they’ve produced wonderful sevens because it’s a lifeblood if you really want to play that style and get it right. And they have some special players. I saw Hooper as a kid and played against his father. He’s a talented lad. They have Pocock injured, and a few in the line, but if you haven’t got it then you have to do the tackle area slightly different. We have Ross Rennie out injured, remember.

“So we have to do what we have to do, but make no mistake: we understand the quality that we’re up against in that tackle area.”

Kieran Low is a new forward Johnson wants to see off the bench on Saturday, though he is not an openside either. “He’s a wonderfully gifted athlete, no doubt about it,” said the coach. “He’s a quality that we don’t have a lot of. He’s played five, six and eight in his last three games, so he’s good enough athletically to play in the back row and he’s big enough to play up front, and that’s a good sign for us for the future because it puts pressure on people.”

The lineout was a shambles early on against the Boks and helped to hand them an unassailable 21-0 lead. The Scots have taken succour from the fact they won 15 of the 16 lineouts after losing five of the first six, and stick with thrower Ross Ford and caller Jim Hamilton.

The locks, Johnson stated, were picked on form over the first two Tests – Hamilton played better than Richie Gray he said plainly – while Grant Gilchrist was always primed for bench duty this time as he vies with newcomer Jonny Gray for the understudy role. Ford, Johnson said, seemed to lack presence against South Africa, but watching the match footage and analysis again influenced him.

“I’d hate to be a hooker – you’re blamed for every ill,” the coach said. “Fordy was actually responsible for one lineout [loss] – the rest were calls and jumpers, but it always focuses on the hooker. We actually had a look at Fordy’s game and it was one of those that surprised us when we finished because his work was far better than we thought watching it at the time.

“There are areas of Fordy’s game that he clearly needs to work on, but his tackle efficiency, his work post-tackle and work in the tackle area was far better than the naked eye saw. You talk about bread-and-butter skills, and that’s a big part of his game, but rest assured I don’t want Fordy, or any player, to be a walk-up certainty to start in this team. Pat [MacArthur] is going to put pressure on him.”

Moray Low was deemed to have earned another start at tighthead, as pressure is cranked up on Euan Murray – Scotland’s opening Six Nations match is on a Sunday – and Low and Ford. MacArthur and Murray as second-half substitutes are better blends for developing the less experienced front rows.

Scotland’s strength in depth remains an issue and Johnson is sticking by his early 2013 pledge to blood more players in the Test arena, but he still wants to finish the year with five wins out of 11 Tests, and so is trying to balance that with getting his best players on the park

A mild hamstring strain has cruelly cut short the stellar season of Wallabies mid-fielder Matt Toomua and plunged Australia's back line selection dilemma deeper into crisis.
Toomua will miss two weeks of football after scans revealed a small tear in his hamstring on Tuesday.
 
Less than four days after helping steer the Wallabies to a rousing victory against Ireland in Dublin, the Brumbies playmaker sat in the lobby of the team hotel saying goodbye to his coach.
 
"It's ironic how quickly your fortunes can change in this business," Ewen McKenzie said.
"One minute you're in the team wearing the gear and the next minute you're having a farewell coffee with the coach, in your civvies heading back home.
 
"Luckily for him it's a two week injury but it's untimely.
 
"He's had a brilliant year, there's no question about that. Everything he's done, a terrific season with the Brumbies, and he's done good things for us.
 
"I'm really pleased with his development not just as a player, but he's been a really good team member."
 
The Wallabies called up NSW winger Peter Betham as soon as an injury cloud settled over their No.12.
 
Betham will arrive too late to play in the Scotland Test but will be used at training throughout the week.
 
McKenzie will be forced to make at least four changes to the starting back line after Tevita Kuridrani was handed a five-week suspension and wingers Adam Ashley-Cooper and Nick Cummins were suspended for a big night out in Dublin.
 
Meanwhile, McKenzie has questioned the consistency of the International Rugby Board's judicial process after a hearing in London on Tuesday resulted in a five-week ban for Kuridrani.
 
"In the end, you're just looking for consistency across the decision making and in that space we thought we had a really good case, because of the involvement of other people in the tackle," he said.
 
Kuridrani was one of two Wallabies who tackled Ireland No.8 Peter O'Mahony in Dublin last weekend. Toomua held O'Mahony's other leg and some Ireland players also appeared to make contact with their teammate during the tackle.
 
McKenzie travelled to London confident those factors, among others, would result in a better outcome for the Brumbies mid-fielder.
 
"He went there as a cleanskin, he'd never been in front of the judiciary before," he said.
"When you get down to the technical bits and pieces, we went through it frame by frame for some time, he is there and it didn't look great in real time but when you sit there and go through the video there were other people involved in the tackle."
 
The Wallabies will wait to see the written judgment from judicial officer Lance Crerar before deciding whether they will lodge an appeal.
 
Crerar ruled that the tackle was a mid-range entry offence, attracting an eight-week ban.
 
One week was added on as a deterrent factor before the Kuridrani's clean record resulted in four weeks being shaved off.
 
McKenzie said he was surprised and disappointed by the length of the penalty.
"If you think that you're guilty you just put your hand up, you don't even defend it, you just cop the [penalty]," he said.
 
"You can't help but compare. Every circumstance is different, there's no two situations that are the same, but you're looking for the principles involved and you mount your arguments around that.
 
"We weren't convincing enough, which was disappointing, because we thought we had a pretty good case.
 
"I've been to a few of these in my time, we went there with a good feeling and didn't quite get there."

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Either they're telling porkies or it actually turn out that professional coaches do in fact know more than we do! Surely not...

tigertattie wrote:to be fair, Gatland ball has been shown to work against the wallabies!

Captain_Sensible wrote:Swinson has dropped out of the starting squad due to injury, Gilchrist will start and Jonny Gray will be on the bench.

To be honest, that's a fux king disaster - Swinson is such a huge player for us at the breakdown and around the pitch.