Scotland Fans' 2014 6N of hell Post-mortem

First topic message reminder :

EDIT March 18th post-Scotland's capitulation to Wales

So, it's the end of the six nations. I have to say the intention of this early prediction thread was to calm all suppositions that Scotland might be anywhere near a threat this year. I have maintained that things look better with Cotter coming in (and hopefully not having to resort to 5th/6th choice wings, though that couldn't have been predicted).

Someone pointed out that in this last game if Wales had received the red card the scoreline would not have been the same in reverse. In fact I would be very worried that we still would have lost. To me it feels like it was an excuse to put the heads down/give Johnson the farewell he deserves.

Personally, I am lost for words. Not really sure where to go from here.

Anyone?

***

EDIT March 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to France.

Come hither one and all and we shall drink our sorrows away...

***
EDIT February 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to England & Ireland

I was right all along.

***

I got this in early because I did not want to see anybody from any nation suggest for any minute that Scotland has a chance of doing anything other than :

a) Cleaning their dirties in a smeg [White Wash]
b) Making lots of soup this winter [wooden spoon]
c) Scraping a win against Italy , in the dying seconds after a urine poor performance , which still might result in "b)" anyway.

No they did not beat Ireland.  
No they did not beat England.
No they did not beat France.  
No they did not beat Wales.  

They might *look* like they are going to win to any outsiders no privy to the Scotland set up, but I guarantee you no sensible Scottish fan will be expecting anything but a, b & c this season.

Why?

• We have an interim coach (for over a year!!!)who is more worried about what he says on camera than apparently coaching a sensible game plan
  
• Our breakdown is awful
  
• We have the psychological hardness of my nan - you don't know my nan but that's not good
  
• Our best players are either never played in position, not allowed to play in the XXIII at all, or are just awful at the moment. Not making the injury excuse because frankly it doesn't apply with exception of 2 key players that might be back in time. Happens in every squad
  
• etc, etc (feel free to add to this list)
  

So look, when we are compiling our 6N predictions this year, can we just for once all agree on something?

1. AN Other
2. AN Other
3. AN Other
4. AN Other
5. Maybe Scotland
6. Probably Scotland

Anyone mentions "dark horses" and "Scotland" in the same sentence without a negation clause in there somewhere (and you KNOW what I mean) I am getting our the knuckle dusters    

The good news is; by admitting this fact - you have already taken the first step on your road to recovery.  

We're all wid'ya, buddy!  

Hi my namespace is Risky and I am crying into my porridge.

I have been addicted to Scottish rugby for 41 years and feel I am losing my friends respect.

I dread getting to work on a Mondays, due to living in London and the continued comments on how poor we are.

My will power is lacking and even booze only numbs the pain for a few minutes.

Please help me...

I don't post many times on here, but I do follow the threads a lot. I realy felt I had to vent over this.

Joined the #lackingclue club yesterday as well in an attempt to lower my blood pressure. As to the game, from what I could see between my fingers it really was a horror show.

The team seems to have gone backwards over the last year. Last six Nations third really flattered us, Ireland should have beaten us, so it looks as if that blip not withstanding we are going backwards   

The only positive thing I could find yesterday was us actually playing a proper open side!

The side looked like 15 individuals, not a team. How on earth can that happen in a international side? I'm genuinely gobsmacked about that.

Vent over.

Don't they say accepting you have a problem is the first step to recovery? Someone, anyone in the system needs to acknowledge that we struggling.

Riskysports wrote:Hi my namespace is Risky and I am crying into my porridge.

I have been addicted to Scottish rugby for 41 years and feel I am losing my friends respect.

I dread getting to work on a Mondays, due to living in London and the continued comments on how poor we are.

My will power is lacking and even booze only numbs the pain for a few minutes.

Please help me...

Well if these boards are anything to go by I think the response will be pity rather than laughter. We have all been there, maybe not quite so bad but, you know.

Still, sometimes pity is worse

Hi my name is Effie and I also support scotland   

Lostinwales - yes other nations have had their dark times but they've also had a lot of success to make up for it.

We've not even had that!

Majestic83 wrote:Very disappointing game today. Not really any positives to take from it at all.
The players are going to take a lot of blame for it but I actually am beginning to feel sorry for them.

Was lucky enough to get a tour of the scotland changing room and tunnel area just before the game and bumped into sean Maitland, Hugo Southwell and ruraidh Jackson. All three were great guys and spoke to them for a good few mins. The impression they gave was that the players have lost confidence since Johnson took over and don't believe in the tactics or the way they are being managed. Was speaking to al kellock and chris Paterson later in the day and both said similar things as well ad really emphasised that they couldn't wait for cotter to arrive. Seems like it is pretty unhappy behind the scenes.

Maj, this is possibly the most disquieting aspect of the whole weekend.
Up until now the one thing you could argue in Rab C's favour is that he is very good at instilling self-belief in players. Remember at Wales he kept up the mantra of ignore the result just focus on your own performance, do what you're good at -everything else will follow. If the Scots players don't even feel good about themselves then WTF is he actually doing then?
Also, the saddest sight of the day was Ross Ford looking a picture of abject misery before the anthems. I posted some time ago that here was a young man who was out of sorts and needed a break (literally and metaphorically) if we think we are suffering after yesterday, how must he be feeling? My heart goes out to him, I just hope Solomons is able to put him back together at Edinburgh. As someone else said sending Ford back out for the second half and then subbing him after 1 minute   At best it was insensitive and at worst it was downright cruel.
This is the lowest point I can remember, as a Scottish fan, since that other Aussie chancer. Have the SRU the gumption to bump Rab C upstairs with immediate effect ? Toonie and Solomons to split the coaching and selection for the next three games Probably wouldn't work. St Sean of Lineen to take over and put out a real awkward, nasty bestard of a side. That could work. Or the senior players to pick the side? If he has lost the faith of the players he must go. There isn't time to get rid of the players and develop a new squad with his ethos. Will he go? Will the pope admit to being a former Hitler Youth? oh no that was the last one.

Hi. My name is tigertattie. I've been Scotland free for one day now.

To get my fix of blue rugby I've switched to an alternative source. Allez le blues

RDW_Scotland wrote:Lostinwales - yes other nations have had their dark times but they've also had a lot of success to make up for it.

We've not even had that!

Not when you're our age RDW, that said I still personally remember Scotland achieving success in this tournament in 1999 that the Irish could only have ever dreamed of at the time. We were just coming to the end of a similar run of completely abject mediocrity. It's true that you have been poor for 15 years now, but the other Celtic nations have had similar runs.

The bigger problem is that Scottish rugby is poorly run. Any Connacht fan could have told you that as a head coach Michael Bradley was absolutely sub-par, a waste of space, so why was he even considered for the Edinburgh job? Any Ospreys fan could have told you that as a head coach Scott Johnson is absolutely sub-par, a waste of space, so why was he even considered for the Scotland job? Why was the proposal to form a new semi-pro league behind the two Scottish regions voted down? Why is the marketing for the two pro sides so pish? Why are promising young Scottish players treated poorly whilst mediocre foreign talents are being brought in to qualify on residency?

The problems with rugby in Scotland are all tied up with the people running the game off the pitch as far as I can see.

See. Notch ain't even from here and he can see that the SRU are feckin clueless.

Every point made is valid mr notch

Question. Did anyone else get given a free DVD of Euan Murray's life story yesterday? I'm glad i did otherwise yesterday's trip to Murrayfield would have been a complete waste of time...

Aye Notch but the Ospreys supporters also said that Johnson was rubbish too and the clueless numpties at the SRU take him on. The whole thing stinks and is more of a mess than the Murrayfield pitch.

Anyhoo off to watch The Warriors and some players with points to prove !

If SJ picks Ford and Hamilton (and any of 1-6,9 ,10) next week then he's deliberately trying to bring down Scottish Rugby.

How can we be so bad though??

I think what we need is to just gut the team completely and start with players that are keen to play.

Dickinson, Lawson, Cross, J Gray, Gilchrist, Harley, Fusaro, Denton, Cusiter, Heathcote, Fife, Bennett, Dunbar, Brown, Hogg

Actually, who knows we might be seeing Lee Jones by the end of the 6N! Good luck to him and Rory Hughes, exciting prospects.

Looks an exciting backline with Hughes, Bennett, Jones and Matawalu. Hopefully Vernon has a good game. Also Jackson as we need him.

That team would get smashed. Heathcote is not ready yet.

Ford clearly needs a break and Big Jims shown his best years have gone

How can we be so bad? Coaching failure. A team that plays so below its potential is badly coached

TJ wrote:That team would get smashed.  Heathcote is not ready yet.

Ford clearly needs a break and Big Jims shown his best years have gone

How can we be so bad?  Coaching failure.  A team that plays so below its potential is badly coached

Can't be any worse. 48 points against and 6 for atm.   

true.

Nematode wrote:

TJ wrote:That team would get smashed.  Heathcote is not ready yet.

Ford clearly needs a break and Big Jims shown his best years have gone

How can we be so bad?  Coaching failure.  A team that plays so below its potential is badly coached

Can't be any worse. 48 points against and 6 for atm.   

I wouldn't go saying things like that just yet...

We're still pretty good at indoor bowls. Lets all rock up to the next event for that

We could have solved our 10 problem with Danny Brough from RL, but he's signed a 5 year deal with Huddersfield in 2013.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFvAJ6Y3t1Y

So we're good at curling, indoor bowls, cycling ... camber tossing.

At least Phil Goodlad is asking the right questions. From Swinson's reaction, the changing room is lost. Wooden spoon here we come...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/26107526

Gads that is a depressing interview. If the entire team is that flat it might explain the past few performances. Not looking forward to the italy game at this rate.

Also, the more I hear about the rejection of the semi professional league the more frustrated I become. Does anyone have the official reasons as to why it was rejected? We are never going to develop the strength in depth to form a good first XV if we only have 2 pro teams!

Not much to add that hasn't already been said. I watched the game in a pub in central London and was thoroughly embarrassed come half time let alone the final whistle. Awful, absolutely no passion for the shirt, just a terrible thing to see from a Scotland side. Not at all surprised to hear the reports of a lost dressing room, it certainly came across pretty clearly in the last 2 matches.

Cheerio SJ, you've driven us firmly in reverse much like every other head coach position you've ever had. Now if you'd do the decent thing and urine off to a country that isn't Scotland....

Final thing, #lackingclue was a great way of venting in game frustrations, congrats whoever came up with that. Probably too much to hope anyone from the SRU would actually take note mind you

Christ, we are in some shape. I have been witness to some truly depressing Scotland performances, but yesterday would take some beating.

To think that Johnson will be in over all control of Rugby strategy in our country makes me feel slightly sick.

The SRU should sack him. He must carry the can for that performance

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Not much to add that hasn't already been said. I watched the game in a pub in central London and was thoroughly embarrassed come half time let alone the final whistle. Awful, absolutely no passion for the shirt, just a terrible thing to see from a Scotland side. Not at all surprised to hear the reports of a lost dressing room, it certainly came across pretty clearly in the last 2 matches.

Cheerio SJ, you've driven us firmly in reverse much like every other head coach position you've ever had. Now if you'd do the decent thing and urine off to a country that isn't Scotland....

Final thing, #lackingclue was a great way of venting in game frustrations, congrats whoever came up with that. Probably too much to hope anyone from the SRU would actually take note mind you

I'll take credit for it. Not proud of it but it helped me to vent during the game.

Italy will rightly be favourites in our next game. I know the WUM articles are likely to surface over the next few days,  but this talk of relegation in the 6N is probably a good thing. A fire needs to be lit under some areas in Scottish Rugby.

Frankly turning out performances like we have been we don't deserve to be competing in the tournament.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Not much to add that hasn't already been said. I watched the game in a pub in central London and was thoroughly embarrassed come half time let alone the final whistle. Awful, absolutely no passion for the shirt, just a terrible thing to see from a Scotland side. Not at all surprised to hear the reports of a lost dressing room, it certainly came across pretty clearly in the last 2 matches.

Cheerio SJ, you've driven us firmly in reverse much like every other head coach position you've ever had. Now if you'd do the decent thing and urine off to a country that isn't Scotland....

Final thing, #lackingclue was a great way of venting in game frustrations, congrats whoever came up with that. Probably too much to hope anyone from the SRU would actually take note mind you

I'll take credit for it.  Not proud of it  but it helped me to vent during the game.

Italy will rightly be favourites in our next game. I know the WUM articles are likely to surface over the next few days,  but this talk of relegation in the 6N is probably a good thing. A fire needs to be lit under some areas in Scottish Rugby.

Frankly turning out performances like we have been we don't deserve to be competing in the tournament.

You are right, more performances like that and we don't deserve to be there. The gutting thing yesterday (amongst many many others) was that England didn't even need to get out of first gear. We were so poor that had England won by 40 points we couldn't have complained. Maybe the threat of relegation will shame the blazers into action - it doesn't seem like anything else will! 

Based on how the Italians are going against the French I think we can safely start cleaning out the SRU kitchen drawer to make space for the soup/porridge conveying device..

It seems Scottish Rugby is in free fall.

Anyone see the player ratings the Scotsman gave? Far too high - the lowest ranking was a 5!

The highest should be a 6, going to Seymour and Hogg and then 5 to Lamont Fusaro maybe Denton. Rest 4 or less.

By my count Matt Scott slipped at least 4 tackles -could have been more I was in a crowded bar. Think he was brought back too early?

The Sunday Herald's were almost as bad Ford, Hamilton and Swinson got 4s. Laidlaw got 6 and Dunbar 5 FFS! Were they watching the same game - arbitrary rubbish ratings as always.

Just back from Scotstoun and trying to thaw out. Conditions utterly abysmal for players and fans. Jackson chose today to have an utter horror show at 10. Bennett  , was excellent as was Pyrgos and Harley. Lee Jones looked ok too tbh although not a day for speedy back play - he did have one cracking run in the 2nd 40.

If Weir is to be jettisoned, and I have said previously he is not ready for Int rugby yet, then Heathcote is the one we have to turn too. Tonks was now quite plainly injured very early in the A game and rather then go off soldiered on and is now out for the season. Tim Swinson's interview and Maj's comments speak volumes for what is going on at M'field. Someone at the SRU has to grow a pair of cojones and blooter Johnson from whence he came, and take Humphreys with him, as he, plainly, is a totally incompetent clown as well.

How much damage will Johnson do as directory of rugby

What does a director of rughy actually do?

Unless it's give ridiculous interviews, we're all doomed

It's all right, lads. It's not like our ladies lost to England yesterday by 11 tries to 0 or anything.

Except, well. Oh.

[quote="jimbopip"][quote="Majestic83"]Very disappointing game today. Not really any positives to take from it at all.
The players are going to take a lot of blame for it but I actually am beginning to feel sorry for them.

. The impression they gave was that the players have lost confidence since Johnson took over and don't believe in the tactics or the way they are being managed. Was speaking to al kellock and chris Paterson later in the day and both said similar things as well ad really emphasised that they couldn't wait for cotter to arrive. Seems like it is pretty unhappy behind the scenes.[/quote]

The very same happened when SJ was coaching at the O's.

He lost the respect of the players. He has been trouble in every coaching role. Humph is not up to much either

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/10627088/Six-Nations-2014-Scotland-should-be-told-to-shape-up-or-ship-out.html

I'm really angry about this. Can't the SRU just bin Johnson? He said he doesn't sign contracts. Just goes day by day. Lets all buy him a plane ticket to Oz. they are pretty feckin cheap these days.

I mean come on.
FES is sitting in the corner muttering "give Bennett a shot" over and over again.
Asbo is in a dark room quietly sobbing while rocking back and forth.
GC is running around town asking foreigners if they have Scottish grand parents and can they tackle (the foreigners, not their Scottish grand parents)
And RDW keeps on having night tremors shouting "it's not fords fault"

All this stress will cost the NHS far more than a plane ticket for SJ and his mullet.

Somebody fockin' say something to make this feeling go away. We are the laughing stock of the whole of northwest Europe.

It's like watching Edinburgh in last year's Heineken cup.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Somebody fockin'  say something to make this feeling go away.  We are the laughing stock of the whole of northwest Europe.

It's like watching Edinburgh in last year's Heineken cup.

Why just northwest Europe?

cakeordeath wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/10627088/Six-Nations-2014-Scotland-should-be-told-to-shape-up-or-ship-out.html

Oh dear. Back to this? Really?

England's struggling team that have underperformed embarrassingly for a decade finally muster a modicum of respectability and already the rabid press pack are tub thumping and telling everyone else they're not good enough to grace the same field of play?

Pride before a fall, usually, as I recall.

"This is not English arrogance speaking..." Erm, yes it is.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Somebody fockin'  say something to make this feeling go away.  We are the laughing stock of the whole of northwest Europe.

It's like watching Edinburgh in last year's Heineken cup.

Its Ok Rugger we know how you feel, Its indelibley imprinted in my memory the time the All Blacks got beaten.

Also the only European country to beat Scotland at the Sevens last weekend was England.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/10627088/Six-Nations-2014-Scotland-should-be-told-to-shape-up-or-ship-out.html

Oh dear. Back to this? Really?

England's struggling team that have underperformed embarrassingly for a decade finally muster a modicum of respectability and already the rabid press pack are tub thumping and telling everyone else they're not good enough to grace the same field of play?

Pride before a fall, usually, as I recall.

"This is not English arrogance speaking..." Erm, yes it is.

Wow. I thought that this piece was a parody, but it seems to be real.

A graceless, ugly, condescending, polemic. And in the Telegraph of all places.

I presume that "Paul Hayward" once had his lunch money/girlfriend taken by a Scottish kid.

Looking forward to his next piece where he instructs us to dance next to cripples because they're 'just not trying'.

It is a bit extreme, and not only because Italy still have a worst record than we do and yet apparently that can be ignored because they are still newcomers - they've played in the 6N as long as anyone elsr has!

This is the kinda fire we need

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkp0hZfaPBM&feature=youtu.be&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DPkp0hZfaPBM%26feature%3Dyoutu.be#

#lackingclue

Scott Johnson had said he's not going to make many changes for the Italy game.