Floyd Vacates At Welter To Avoid Manny

First topic message reminder :

Here's Floyd's comment:

"Floyd Mayweather is at the level now he can come out with his own world championship belt...I'm 45 and 0 throughout my professional career, and like I always said before, and I'ma say it again; you put 'em in front of me, I'll beat 'em...you gotta realize this, everybody kept talking about the title, he's mandatory; he can have the belt. A belt doesn't make me,"

mobilemaster8 wrote:Well Pacquiao was a champion at LMW as well so lets see if he will fight GGG or Lara........

Martinez is a poor poor win. If it had happened say 3-4 years ago, when he was sparking out Williams etc then yeh. But now after scraping past 3 domestic UK middleweights and a blown up uselss version of Chavez Snr, what sort of recognition would Floyd get?!  None.

maybe Flloyd should have fought him 3 or 4 years ago then???? when Martinez was begging for the fight.

Martinez missed his chance...Manny has now lost 2...missed his chance

expect by the time Lara, GGG or Bradley get considered by Flloyd they may have lost and missed their chances too.

I remember when Margarito was the most dangerous opponent. people laugh at it now.

Flloyd waiting out his rivals to lose, ranks him higher than them.

poor defeats for Ortiz and khan don't cost them their chances though....

They still cant do it. No matter hard they try they just cant look at it as a fan. Not when they have old Mayweathers best interests at heart. Roll on Khan, Maidana and Garcia.

RanjitPatel wrote:Boxthis, a few people on this thread have proposed GGG as a Floyd opponent.

Yes, if he makes 154.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Well Pacquiao was a champion at LMW as well so lets see if he will fight GGG or Lara........

Pacquiao should have fought some top contenders at 154. He didn't. Instead he took on an old Mosely, which was a pretty garbage fight. Then he stopped pretending he was ever a real JMW champion. What does this have to do with Floyd?

mobilemaster8 wrote:Martinez is a poor poor win. If it had happened say 3-4 years ago, when he was sparking out Williams etc then yeh. But now after scraping past 3 domestic UK middleweights and a blown up uselss version of Chavez Snr, what sort of recognition would Floyd get?!  None.

Well consensus amongst fans is that it's a better fight than most. If Martinez can make 154, and that's a big if, I'd much rather see that fight than Khan, Alexander, Garcia, Maidana etc, etc. I'd rather see it more than I would Bradley. Real boxing fans should worry about seeing the best challenges.

RanjitPatel wrote:I said Pacquaio wouldn't take a mandatory cut so the theories still intact.

It isnt though. Because Mayweather has said even if Pacquiao did take a mandatory cut he would rather vacate. What was his reaction to Pacquaio becoming mandatory? "I dont need a belt. Il let him have it." Cleary dying for the fight.

Martinez, even at this age can beat Floyd. He probably isn't a better fighter, but he matches very well. He's got the reach advantage, and more importantly, he isnt going to go looking for Floyd, and I don't think Floyd is as comfortable as youd like to believe taking the fight to an opponent, especially one with the reach and speed to tag him coming in. Cotto lacked the speed and Reach, so Floyd could take his chances (still got tagged, mind you). Floyd isn't going to fight Serge, simple as that, and no amount of gesturing can convince me that it's because he'll win easily (the most self-defeating theory ever)

Boxtthis wrote:

mobilemaster8 wrote:Well Pacquiao was a champion at LMW as well so lets see if he will fight GGG or Lara........

Pacquiao should have fought some top contenders at 154. He didn't. Instead he took on an old Mosely, which was a pretty garbage fight. Then he stopped pretending he was ever a real JMW champion. What does this have to do with Floyd?

mobilemaster8 wrote:Martinez is a poor poor win. If it had happened say 3-4 years ago, when he was sparking out Williams etc then yeh. But now after scraping past 3 domestic UK middleweights and a blown up uselss version of Chavez Snr, what sort of recognition would Floyd get?!  None.

Well consensus amongst fans is that it's a better fight than most. If Martinez can make 154, and that's a big if, I'd much rather see that fight than Khan, Alexander, Garcia, Maidana etc, etc. I'd rather see it more than I would Bradley. Real boxing fans should worry about seeing the best challenges.

No. The general consensus is fans wanting floyd to lose. They want him to fight GGG or Sergio so they can be 20lbs heavier come FN.

Bradley would be a fantastic win. If Garcia wins a couple of superfights then he is a big win.

No they want him to take fights that are challenging and to test himself. You go on about Bradley but he isnt even being considered. Garcia is an easy fight so will happen down the line if Garcia doesnt fluff his lines. Its Mayweather fans scared their man might lose. I cant believe a serious boxing fan would not like to see Mayweather try and pull off a win against Martinez or Golovkin. That would be really worth watching.

mobilemaster8 wrote:
No. The general consensus is fans wanting floyd to lose. They want him to fight GGG or Sergio so they can be 20lbs heavier come FN.

Bradley would be a fantastic win. If Garcia wins a couple of superfights then he is a big win.

They want to see him challenged. Simple as that. He's dominated all of his fights over the last 5 years or so. He hasn't been anything other than a prohibitive favourite for ages. The odds are always massively in his favour. The odds would be a lot slimmer against Martinez, GGG, or Lara, you can be assured of that. Imagine Floyd going in to a fight with a real sense that he may lose? That would be exciting.

Bradley and Garcia are ok wins, not fantastic wins. Those are two fights where Floyd, again, would be an odds on favourite. Although I do agree that these guys are deserving of a shot (well Garcia is getting there). It's just not that exciting because we know Floyd will win.

It's not about wanting him to lose. Although, for you, it appears to be about desperately not wanting him to lose.

IM not fussed if he loses or not, its not my career and has no impact on my life at all to be honest.

I just don't understand the stick he gets just because he is head and shoulders above everyone in his weight division for the past 16 years.

Just because he is the best out there, does not mean at 37 he should start jumping bloody weight divisions against monster punchers who out weigh him by about 20+lbs just to prove a point that's not even valid.

You dont understand the stick he gets because you have swallowed his marketed career hook line and sinker.

He gets stick for not testing and challenging himself enough, for going missing when his division was challenging, for carefully selecting his opponents, for showing no signs of wanting to face his biggest rival. The list goes on. If you didnt care you wouldnt make every excuse under the sun for this. You rate him as one of the top five ever boxers but are blind to how he goes about his career. You see Mosley as "pound for pound number 3" babble when Mayweather fought him rather than a past it boxer who hadnt boxed in over a year when he faced Mayweather. His critics can see through all this which is why he gets the stick. If he had stuck around welterweight and became a proper a champion there by boxing Cotto, Mosley, Pacquiao, Margarito, Williams, Bradley, Marquez etc when it meant something then people probably wouldnt demand him to move up but frankly people a lot of people are bored of seeing him stack the deck in his favour with his fights and cherry pick his way through and wasting his time fighting overhyped TexMex or hyped up mismatches.

catchweight wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If Marquez was unhappy with Mayweather weighing above the 144lb agreement he should then have cancelled the fight.

Hilarious

Is that not the reality of the situation or am I missing something, you seem happy enough to post one word replies without expanding it. Mayweather was not very sporting to weigh above the 144lb agreement but contractually he did nothing wrong, the fight was signed at 147lbs with a 300k penalty for each pound you were over 144lbs.

mobilemaster8 wrote:IM not fussed if he loses or not, its not my career and has no impact on my life at all to be honest.

I just don't understand the stick he gets just because he is head and shoulders above everyone in his weight division for the past 16 years.

Just because he is the best out there, does not mean at 37 he should start jumping bloody weight divisions against monster punchers who out weigh him by about 20+lbs just to prove a point that's not even valid.

Mayweather gets criticism because he divides opinion.

There is no doubt he is an amazing talent, however whilst some people are adamant in their belief that he is the greatest boxer of his generation and one of the best ever, many other people look at his record - particularly in the last 5 years or so - and argue that he has avoided the absolute toughest challenges available to him and instead has cherry picked his way through this latter part of his career.

One thing is certain, Mayweather is as astute in business as he is in the ring. His carefully crafted Money Mayweather persona is one of the reasons why he is now the leading PPV star in boxing. There is no doubt that there are a lot of people who watch Mayweather fights, hoping to see him taste defeat.

A large part of his box office appeal is centered around his unblemished record. The fact he wins so convincingly is naturally going to rile the large section of the public who want to see him get a pasting. Couple this with the perception that he is avoiding his toughest challengers and it's easy to see why he lights up bulletin boards with feverish debate.

Ive said it before, but all the anger and abuse that gets flung at Floyd on here is a backhanded compliment. Catchweight is ranting that he should be fighting middleweights - thats just because he is so much better than anyone at his natural weight.

Garcia and Bradley are both young, undefeated belt holders in and around his division (LWW/WW). The fact that they are being dismissed as not good enough to get in the ring with Mayweather speaks volumes.

Manny hasnt beaten a WW in two years - I want to see him rebuild his career a bit before the Floyd fight happens. I think it will though.

Nope Im ranting that Mayweather should test himself and take on the biggest challenges and the toughest opponents. Something he has consistently failed to do for years no matter how many excuses, promoters babble and glossing over his worshipers use. I like fighters to challenge themselves and take on the biggest challenges. Thats part of being great as much as talent. If every great boxer adopted Mayweathers approach the sport would have been much poorer and I wouldnt have got to see as many great fights as a fan. If I hadnt got into the sport prior to Mayweather I would either not have been drawn in by Mayweather or else been fooled by his career policy like a lot of others. You say its a backhanded compliment to his ability, I say its backhanded criticism that if hes supposed to be as wonderful and talented as everyone says that its gone to waste by him taking the path of least resistance for so many years of his career and left so many challenges go by.

Lets also be straight, Pacquiao beat Bradley in all but the eyes of a few blind judges. Hes still the best welterweight fight out there for Mayweather and by the looks of things one Mayweather is still keen on avoiding.

Manny should rematch Bradley first, put that to bed. I agree that he should have won that fight, but he should also arguably have a losing record to Marquez so its swings and roundabouts. After Bradley then Mayweather, who should fight Garcia in the meantime. Thats what I would like to see.

The question how high in weight Mayweather should push is just a question on where you draw the line. Would you put him in with Ward? Kovalev? Wlad? They would be challenges for him too. I just personally dont think its fair to expect a boxer to compete being outweighed by 20+lbs on the day of a fight, which Floyd would be against Martinez or GGG. Similarly I dont want to see fighters boil down until they are just shells.

I consider Floyd and GGG too far apart in weight to be fair - either way one would have to take the fight at a serious disadvantage.

As a fan I would much rather see Mayweather in a challenging fight even if he has to give up weight. Why draw a line in the sand? As a fan I would rather see him move up and if he keeps winning why stop? He might lose eventually but who would think less of him? I would think far more of Mayweather if he stepped up and challenged Martinez or Golovkin and lost than arsing around fighting Khan or Maidana which he knows are wins.

If Mayweather had went up to welterweight, decided that he would clear it of all challengers and rule the division then I would have no problem with it. But he opted to retire while the division was strong and then came back and cherry picked the past it leftovers and wasted time taking a few other pointless fights that only served his bank balance. Theres hardly a fight you can look back on that Mayweathers had in the last few years and think, yeah that was the hardest fight available or he really pushed the boat out fighting that guy.

Even ignoring the middleweights, looking at whos available now you have Lara coming off a dominating performance, you have Bradley coming off a big win and you have Pacquiao who put himself back in the mix. Will Mayweather opt for any of them? I seriously doubt it. He will be looking at Khan and Maidana or if we are really lucky, Garcia.

I agree completely that Khan or Maidana would be disappointing if either were announced.

Although I accept your points re Mayweather and cherry picking, the Alvarez fight was generally accepted as the toughest fight out there for Mayweather at the time [shame Canelo failed to appear].

Lara is getting vastly overrated on here Floyd would get zero credit for beating him less than canelo! Very disappointed if khan gets the point but you can't slag mayweathers opponents in the last 5 years and not mannys there basically the same

Brilliant as he is, he'll never crack a top ten without facing Pacquaio end of next year at the latest.


It's his attitude about making the fight that stinks. Just as retiring when Cotto beat Shane stunk. 


Being centre of attention is what he loves more than anything. Proving he's the best doesn't seem to matter.


To be honest, I don't even think a win over Manny would place him in the top ten now. You know, when you realise how much better his legacy could and should have been. Pac circa 2009-10, Cotto circa Shane, Marg circa Cotto. There does appear to be a pattern of weaseling. I say that though as one who is sickened by his attitude to Pacman.

It's been said a million times before, but fans like Mobile are what ruins the sport.

They actively look for reasons to rule out a tough fight. Some of the excuses they dream up for Floyd are shambolic..

His reach is too long
He hits too hard
He's too big
Why should Floyd give Manny the chance to get lucky
Floyd has earned the right to easy fights

For the life of me I cannot understand why someone would not want to see Floyd taking on a massive challenge in GGG. They would rather see him splatter Maidana around the ring.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:It's been said a million times before, but fans like Mobile are what ruins the sport.

They actively look for reasons to rule out a tough fight. Some of the excuses they dream up for Floyd are shambolic..

His reach is too long
He hits too hard
He's too big
Why should Floyd give Manny the chance to get lucky
Floyd has earned the right to easy fights

For the life of me I cannot understand why someone would not want to see Floyd taking on a massive challenge in GGG. They would rather see him splatter Maidana around the ring.

Floyd weighs in less then 150 on fight night when fighting at lmw! Most lww weigh more than him fight night and even some lightweights! If he did beat GGG (who is also being overrated) I don't think he would but if he did all that would be said was oh to challenge himself he needs to fight ward and so on and so on until he finally loses, at which point people would say I told you so first time he fights a worth while fight he's beat!

Diamond in the rough wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:It's been said a million times before, but fans like Mobile are what ruins the sport.

They actively look for reasons to rule out a tough fight. Some of the excuses they dream up for Floyd are shambolic..

His reach is too long
He hits too hard
He's too big
Why should Floyd give Manny the chance to get lucky
Floyd has earned the right to easy fights

For the life of me I cannot understand why someone would not want to see Floyd taking on a massive challenge in GGG. They would rather see him splatter Maidana around the ring.

Floyd weighs in less then 150 on fight night when fighting at lmw! Most lww weigh more than him fight night and even some lightweights! If he did beat GGG (who is also being overrated) I don't think he would but if he did all that would be said was oh to challenge himself he needs to fight ward and so on and so on until he finally loses, at which point people would say I told you so first time he fights a worth while fight he's beat!

If he's concerned about giving up weight advantage against other guys that can make 154 then he shouldn't be champion at 154. If GGG and Martinez can make that weight then the fight should be feasible. Ward could never make that weight, so no one would ever call for that fight.

If he wants to be a champion at a weight, he should fight the biggest challenges at that weight. He beat the No.1 contender at 154 (well 152) in Canelo, which was a really good win. He should be prepared to fight other top contenders.

ps If he beat GGG he'd be praised to high heaven - don't kid yourself on. This whole 'what's the point because he never gets any credit' thing with Floyd is a ridiculous excuse. He's the only boxer I hear people talking about in these terms.

Diamond in the rough wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:It's been said a million times before, but fans like Mobile are what ruins the sport.

They actively look for reasons to rule out a tough fight. Some of the excuses they dream up for Floyd are shambolic..

His reach is too long
He hits too hard
He's too big
Why should Floyd give Manny the chance to get lucky
Floyd has earned the right to easy fights

For the life of me I cannot understand why someone would not want to see Floyd taking on a massive challenge in GGG. They would rather see him splatter Maidana around the ring.

Floyd weighs in less then 150 on fight night when fighting at lmw! Most lww weigh more than him fight night and even some lightweights! If he did beat GGG (who is also being overrated) I don't think he would but if he did all that would be said was oh to challenge himself he needs to fight ward and so on and so on until he finally loses, at which point people would say I told you so first time he fights a worth while fight he's beat!

You think he DEHYDRATES post weigh in??

Because he was 150+ when weighing in for both Canelo and ODLH a few years earlier.

Lets throw Floyd in with Wlad - surely he should be taking on the toughest challenges available?

What about Ward? Why not his next fight? Surely the 150 ish that Mayweather walks around at and the fact he's 5'8 is enough to take on a man who weighs north of 175 and is only 6ft tall and undefeated....christ guys. What about Golovkin? Surely he should be fighting him right? He's only 3 inches taller and around 15lbs heavier on fight night - don't let that detract from Mayweather needing to CHALLENGE himself against the best available?

Lets face it, around the weight - he's hammered Alvarez (widely regarded as the best given he'd beaten Trout who beat Cotto etc)

Who else is there?

Bradley - should fight, no argument.

Pacquiao - has he earned his shot given he's 1 - 2? Why does this present Mayweather with a ducker tag in that he's scared? He's beaten better than Pacquiao. In 2009 he was a real threat. Now, what is he? How has he achieved status to challenge Mayweather?

Is that it? Who else? He shouldn't be entertaining Khan, I'm not going to justify that - Maidana has recently taken a belt so he's not exactly a tomato can is he?

You know Catchweight/Lumbering - you can be objective without being a fanatic. I'm not a fan of Mayweathers selection process, but you're saying utterly stupid things. Martinez is a shell of himself now. He'd weigh around 167+ on fight night - so besides it being a huge jump in weight for Floyd he's also got to compete with the fact that if he wins Martinez was a shell and if he loses its because he's not good enough when in reality it'd be the weight being too much in all likelihood.

Can you please stop debating this like children stamping your feet and saying "NO UR RONG I M BEST CUS UR JUST A NUTHUGA" and add some thought, reason and objectivity?

I pretty sure Floyd woke up the day of the fight against canelo weighing 146 and had to eat to get his weight up! I don't think he rehydrates his walking about weight Isnt far from his fighting weight

Tbh, Jab, I don't think anyone is clamouring for a Pac fight now and most are saying it's absurd he's #1 contender.

The only relevance is that 1) Floyd appears to have vacated as soon as the absurdity happened [we can only postulate as to why, nobody is right or wrong]; and 2) people are saying Pac WAS the #1 fight back in 08/09 when Floyd 'retired' and PBF deserves criticism for that, especially given a general under-current of feeling regarding carefully picked fights.

He calls himself a 154 champ, so fight the top guy at 154 - Lara. He's already beaten the previous top LMW dog, albeit at 152, so why shouldn't he?

Nobody is asking for anything ridiculous, GGG is only being mentioned now IF he comes down to 154 (where Floyd says he is the champ) which is the same as Martinez 2-3 yrs ago when that fight also never happened.

He's always around 150 unless he's fighting at Welter when he comes down to the 147 limit with ease.

He probably didn't even think about his weight in the run up to the Canelo fight - like you say maybe he woke up a little light and had to pile on, but he would have never been over given he weighed in around 150 anyway.

Diamond in the rough wrote:I pretty sure Floyd woke up the day of the fight against canelo weighing 146 and had to eat to get his weight up! I don't think he rehydrates his walking about weight Isnt far from his fighting weight

He's generally known as a small hydrater, only puts on a couple of lbs and walks around only a few pounds over fight weight - bit like Froch. But I've not heard of him shrinking and in 2 of his '154' bouts he weighed in 150+.

Not one of these crazy guys like, I think, Thurman who was fighting at WW but rehydrated to 160 or something.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Lets throw Floyd in with Wlad - surely he should be taking on the toughest challenges available?

What about Ward? Why not his next fight? Surely the 150 ish that Mayweather walks around at and the fact he's 5'8 is enough to take on a man who weighs north of 175 and is only 6ft tall and undefeated....christ guys. What about Golovkin? Surely he should be fighting him right? He's only 3 inches taller and around 15lbs heavier on fight night - don't let that detract from Mayweather needing to CHALLENGE himself against the best available?

Ridiculous hyperbole. You're doing the exact same thing that you accuse CW/LJ of i.e. going over the top. Who is seriously mentioning Ward? If Floyd is champion at 154, it would be nice to see him fight the best people who can make 154. If Golovkin and Martinez can then it should be fair game. If they can't, scrap that idea.

What won't be nice is if he fights the Khan (hardly fought at 147 and ranked lower top ten), Maidana (limited and the softest of the 147 beltholders), Garcia (good-ish, but two weight classes below him). Bradley is a clear champion at 147 - that would be a decent fight I suppose. If Mayweather want to be considered a nailed on ATG then he's got to be held to different standards than others, which means taking on some riskier fights.

I find it ridiculous how people seem so intent on being Floyd's white knight.

I think I will be taking lessons from Jabmachines wonderfully articulate and well balanced posts in the future.

Right after........I learn how to post properly.........From TRUSSMAN........

For now.....

i will be happy if he fights Bradley or Garcia next. both undefeated, top quality fighters around his weight.

I will be very disappointed if he fights khan.

also mayweather deserves stick for the way he has handled the pacman situation, now and before. it will always hang around him like a bad smell.

joeyjojo618 wrote:
Manny hasnt beaten a WW in two years - I want to see him rebuild his career a bit before the Floyd fight happens. I think it will though.

Yet Khan is being touted as a credible opponent, "his speed is dangerous" etc yet hasn't had a fight at WW, where I assume a fight with Floyd would happen ( I can't see Floyd agreeing to LWW), and Khan has lost two of his last 4 fights at LWW, being sparked out in tremendous fashion, struggling against Diaz and getting put on his buttocks during the fight.

If we're talking about who's earned their place in the queue

1) Bradley - Undefeated. Has responded well to the post Manny fall out, survived a war with Provdonikov, clearly beat Marquez
2) Garcia - Undefeated. May just have a left hook, but it's done the job against plenty of fighters. The pre-fight build up between his dad and Floyd Sr/ Uncle Roger, would be superb
3) Manny - Not the fighter he was, but he's done more than enough to warrant a shot


The others

Khan - Can't cut it at the highest level. Gets battered at LWW, no way he cuts the mustard at WW
Marquez - roided up against Manny in my opinion and lost conclusively to Bradley. Has already lost conclusively to Floyd.
GGG - Too big. Floyd has no obligation to go up in weight and coming down would probably limit GGG's chances. Stylewise I don't see it being a great fight
Martinez - Again too big. Exciting to watch but has looked poor in recent outings and struggled at times with pretty ordinary fighters.

The likes of Lara etc haven't done enough yet to earn a shot.

Can I ask a question and await the inevitable abuse. Why should it be ridiculous for fans to want Floyd to fight Golovkin at 160. Not saying he should or would particularly hold it against him if he doesn’t but as a fan I get excited about fights that I cannot pick a winner in, if such a fight is between two brilliant fighters all the better, if such a fight involved the extraordinary fighter of his generation attempting to do something extraordinary then even better. Floyd vs GGG at 160 ticks each every box for me as a fan so why would I not want to see it.

The fact that it represents a chance of Floyd losing matters not a jot to me, I am not a member of his immediate family. The Alvarez fight for me confirmed Floyd is not likely to lose to anyone south of 160 any time soon and that there are few capable of even making it interesting, so why would I get excited about any of them?

for me flloyd will never be as great as Jones or Hopkins. he would never take a fight as an underdog, or move up to a weight hes not comfortable at to challenge himself.

Flloyd took on Oscar and Canelo, because the money was too good to turn down. I don't think he has any ambition as a sportsman. Yet I believe Roy and Bernard have plenty.

Of course Flloyd doesn't have to look to make things hard for himself. there is no disgrace in his decisions. Hes had a wonderfully managed career, and deserves plenty of recognition. but id rather support Hopkins or jones, who were much better for boxing as far as im concerned

Rowley wrote:Can I ask a question and await the inevitable abuse. Why should it be ridiculous for fans to want Floyd to fight Golovkin at 160. Not saying he should or would particularly hold it against him if he doesn’t but as a fan I get excited about fights that I cannot pick a winner in, if such a fight is between two brilliant fighters all the better, if such a fight involved the extraordinary fighter of his generation attempting to do something extraordinary then even better. Floyd vs GGG at 160 ticks each every box for me as a fan so why would I not want to see it.

The fact that it represents a chance of Floyd losing matters not a jot to me, I am not a member of his immediate family. The Alvarez fight for me confirmed Floyd is not likely to lose to anyone south of 160 any time soon and that there are few capable of even making it interesting, so why would I get excited about any of them?

My opinion is based on weight difference. I would imagine Floyd would struggle to EXCEED 160lbs. I reckong he would make 160 without having to cut whereas GGG will.

I'd love to see Floyd lose, but I don't think it should be because he took on a far bigger fighter just because that was the most dangerous fight out there. If that's the basis for finding a challenging fight then as mentioned by others, lets stick him in with Wlad

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Diamond in the rough wrote:I pretty sure Floyd woke up the day of the fight against canelo weighing 146 and had to eat to get his weight up! I don't think he rehydrates his walking about weight Isnt far from his fighting weight

He's generally known as a small hydrater, only puts on a couple of lbs and walks around only a few pounds over fight weight - bit like Froch.  But I've not heard of him shrinking and in 2 of his '154' bouts he weighed in 150+.

Not one of these crazy guys like, I think, Thurman who was fighting at WW but rehydrated to 160 or something.

Just read it now he weighed in 150 1/2 fight night weight was 150 so lost half a pound! I'm pretty sure the heaviest he's ever been on fight night is 151

Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake wrote:If that's the basis for finding a challenging fight then as mentioned by others, lets stick him in with Wlad

If he was a current belt holder at cruiser I would agree with sticking him in with Wlad, however he isn't he is a current light middle belt holder, as such asking him to go in with someone in the division above is hardly asking for the moon on a stick.

Given he's stretching to make 152 let alone 154 so asking him to go to 160 is a bit much seeing as he's not fought there before. He'd have to gradually work his way there by conditioning which at 36 is not easy and then of course there's no guarantee he'd perform with the extra timber on him.

He does not actually have to weigh 160 to fight at middle. Is perfectly permissible to enter a middleweight fight weighing 152.

You have to wonder about Mayweather because he just hasnt fought enough top opponents when it mattered. Beating past it guys and avoiding the tougher challenges doesnt count as the real thing.

Im not convinced hes able to beat younger and fresher fighters like de la Hoya, Cotto or Mosley. He didnt fight Pacquaio, he hasnt fought Bradley, he never fought Margarito or Williams. Probably wont fight Lara either. He can outclass Gatti, Guerrero, Ortiz, Maidana and these types but the real tests have gone unchallenged. The more his career goes on, the more I think hes generally fooling people into believing hes much greater than he is. Lower down in the weights when he started off he was exceptional but as a welterweight where he has spent the business end of his career it been carefully planned.

Not exactly sure why you're using Margarito as a stick there Catchweight - the guy hasn't been considered dangerous given he's lost to every top level fighter (except Cotto 1 which is debatable given his handwrapping allegations)

If I list his last opponents like this

Alvarez
Guerrero
Cotto
Ortiz
Mosely
Marquez
Hatton
De La Hoya
Baldomir
Judah

Thats 10 top boxers, argue otherwise and you're nit-picking. They only look poor in retrospect. I'm not trying to defend Floyd because I'm some sort of "white knight" I'm defending him because you're beating him with the wrong sticks or ones you've made up.

And to Rowley, weighing in at 152 against a guy who will undoubtably weight nearly a stone more than you and who has a 2 inch height advantage is a lot, trust me. As much as I may get derided for saying, I've sparred with the upper end of the weight class above me and its a lot tougher as I'm at the smaller end of mine.

You throw names in there but without any context. The top fighters on that list are probably Mosley, de la Hoya and Cotto. They were all past it when Mayweather beat them. He never beat a genuinely top fighter in any of his years at welterweight. If an old de la Hoya could run Mayweather close, an well past it Mosley could shake him up and Cotto give him a good fight despite being past his best who is to say they couldnt beat him when they were at their best?

You find out how really good a fighter is when they take on the other toughest challenges out there. Mayweather certainly hasnt done that at welterweight. Its no comparison to the Leonard, Duran, Benetiz, Hagler and Hearns fighting each other or even when Trinidad, de la Hoya, Wright and Mosley were doing it ten years ago.

I appreciate it is tough JM, that is why I want to see it. For me Mayweather is so far in front of every other fighter in or around his weight class in terms of skill that if it is level playing field in terms of weight the fight has limited appeal as there is such a chasm in terms of skill. As such a gap in weight and height serves to make up for the shortfall in skill and generate the interest.

Would guess the difference come fight night would be no less than when Jones challenged Ruiz, Armstrong challenged Garcia or when Robinson challenged Maxim, they all had enough skill to make light of those size differences or at least make the fights competitive, see no reason Floyd cannot do likewise if he chooses.

Oh I'm not debating the possibility Rowley, but we know how Floyd picks and to go that far isn't within what he'd do - I'm not sure people realise I hold this mindset. I'm in total agreement it'd be amazing if he did but should he? I'm not so sure.

Catchweight, you're nit-picking.

Rowley wrote:I appreciate it is tough JM, that is why I want to see it. For me Mayweather is so far in front of every other fighter in or around his weight class in terms of skill that if it is level playing field in terms of weight the fight has limited appeal as there is such a chasm in terms of skill. As such a gap in weight and height serves to make up for the shortfall in skill and generate the interest.

Would guess the difference come fight night would be no less than when Jones challenged Ruiz, Armstrong challenged Garcia or when Robinson challenged Maxim, they all had enough skill to make light of those size differences or at least make the fights competitive, see no reason Floyd cannot do likewise if he chooses.

 

Hear hear

 

catchweight wrote:You throw names in there but without any context. The top fighters on that list are probably Mosley, de la Hoya and Cotto. They were all past it when Mayweather beat them.    He never beat a genuinely top fighter in any of his years at welterweight. If an old de la Hoya could run Mayweather close, an well past it Mosley could shake him up and Cotto give him a good fight despite being past his best who is to say they couldnt beat him when they were at their best?

You find out how really good a fighter is when they take on the other toughest challenges out there. Mayweather certainly hasnt done that at welterweight. Its no comparison to the Leonard, Duran, Benetiz, Hagler and Hearns fighting each other or even when Trinidad, de la Hoya, Wright and Mosley were doing it ten years ago.

To be fair your taking it into context aswell! Mosley ranked 3 at WW behind manny and Floyd so floyd fought the next best fighter and the one manny turned down! If cotto was past his prime when Floyd fought him same goes for manny after marg beat him! De la Hoya was def past his prime but Floyd moved up for first fight at that weight and turning him into a ppv star nobody would've turned that fight down! Hatton was ranked number 1 LWW similar to Bradley before he moved up and fought manny!

Sorry but its not nitpicking pointing out that the best welterweights he fought were past their best why fought them and he has consistently avoided the toughest tests out there as a welterweight.

This Mosley was ranked 3 crap again. Mosley was pound for pound 3, 3 weight world champ yada yada yada. I dont need any of that crap to know that when Mayweather finally did face him he was way past his best and hadnt fought a match in well over a year. Thats what matters. Pacquiao wasted his time fighting an even worse Mosley yes.

Look at the welterweight division over the last five or six and spot whats going on. The best welterweights:

Mosley - past it
Cotto - past it
de la Hoya past it
Pacquiao - not happened
Bradley - not happened
Williams - never happened
Margarito - never happened
Marquez - happened when Marquez had never fought at the weight and he came in over weight.

He has supplemented that with fairly unproven welterweights and usually overrated boxers like Guerrero, Ortiz, Hatton which are fine but hardly the stuff of legends. He can handpick fighters from 3 or 4 divisions when he wants to leading to all this bogus ratings and pound for pound waffle. In the old days there would be one division with ten top contenders that he would be forced to work through. Not numerous divisions he could pic n mix through. He wasnt involved in the division when the fights were there, he retired and let everyone else beat each other up only to come back and start handpicking the leftovers he wanted.

You can argue the wins but its simply impossible to avoid the reality that he just isnt taking the toughest fights on any kind of regular basis and has missed virtually every actual genuine challenge at the welterweight when it meant something. It would be fine if he was being judged on this but theres just a neverending stream of excuses for it, continual denial and flat out unwillingness to want to see him challenged.

When do you propose a fight with Marquez could have happened then?