Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

One guy I think deserves high praise from these two Treviso games is Sean Doyle.
As you know I reported some doubt about his future and that he needed to put his hand - he has done so big time.

Few more games like that and he will be with us next year for sure.

You think McComishs ego would have been deflated when Paul Marshall knocked him out

Geoff - I fully agree with your comments on "Allen and Andrew etc but on the other-hand there are also Olding, Marshall, Jackson, Henderson, Gilroy - 5 decent players."

It is pretty exciting to see some of the talent coming through.

The lack of front 5 guys coming in is a bit of a concern though - and as a former prop forward I wonder if it is more difficult to shine? At schools level etc. it is always the backs who get noticed. I played a 2XV match against Methody (a large number of years ago...) and my opposite number was immense. Chatting after, turned out he played for Irish schools, but Davy Wells hadn't noticed!

Good to hear that Jared Payne is a good guy - and good work David Humph - the overseas players he has brought in have been fantastic. Peinaar & Muller appear to absolute class off the field as well.

Lets hope this trend continues, and fingers crossed we see some tight five talent coming through. One other slightly concerning aspect - I was speaking to a former Irish schools and under 20 player - and he elected not to join the academy, as his mother didn't like the supplements he was asked to take....

2bfair,

I find that extremely strange since DWells concentrates on the forwards and MCB play a very forwards oriented game. I am amazed Gilroy, Marshall, Allen and Jackson managed to get noticed in that environment.

You are correct Mrs P - I guess it must have been a one-off, or else a personality clash.

In other news... BBC Radio Ulster this morning described Craig Gilroy as....

'the new forgotten man of Irish Rugby'!

  

clivemcl wrote:In other news... BBC Radio Ulster this morning described Craig Gilroy as....

'the new forgotten man of Irish Rugby'!

  

Haha! Well Trimble was the forgotten man of Irish Rugby for 2 years and he's been exceptional for Ulster in that period- if Gilroy does as well as Trimby did when he was out of favour everyone will be remembering him soon enough!

2bFair wrote:The lack of front 5 guys coming in is a bit of a concern though - and as a former prop forward I wonder if it is more difficult to shine

Yeah, like I said above there is an awareness in Ulster rugby that the club system isn't sufficient and that there is too much of a reliance on the main rugby schools, which in turn aren't producing sufficient talent to keep the province at the level they are at once Pienaar etc. leave.

There is a big investment in regional strategies being put in place, reporting under Brian and Allan Clarke to increase the quality in non traditional areas, to find talent which would otherwise go amiss, one example is the 99 strategy which is a series of open sessions for anyone born on or after 1999 to come and get try rugby under the watchful eye of the pro coaches. There is definitely a sense of urgency about this because the current set up is not seen as sustainable.

I not so worry about the front row - McCall looks good and I have high hopes for Taylor but the 2nd row is a real cause for concern.

Other than Henderson no one coming from Ulster schools even remotely good enough.
The best of a poor bunch Donnan and O'Connor are both from outside.

Ruaidhri Murphy confirmed on 2 year deal from the Brumbies.

About time - a case of one the worst kept secrets.

Beginning to see why Robinson may be coming as a 10/15 cover - injury question marks.
Only 24 games in 2 years.

A class act who can pay when Paddy and Jared are away.
Provided he is not paid a top salary I am ok with that.

Explains why NZ have not introduced him to the senior squad because at his best he looks good enough.

Wonderful news as I suspected all interested parties may have backed off due to the ongoing uncertainties. Lets hope ties remain solid with the other lads. Robinson looks to be a cracking player and most definately a class act as you've said Geoff.
I've not found much on Murphy but what little I've seen has looked very good.

P.S. As I am sure everyone would agree it was disappointing to have the match postponed on friday evening especially as we had such a strong selection, I just hope we have as strong a panel for the rematch, if we do not I shall be pregnant with rage

If as expected it is 14th March and assuming the say Irish 23 we would miss in addition to the 3 starters Jackson and maybe Henderson.

But we would have back Bowe, Fitzpatrick and Stevenson.
10 would be the big drop in standard

We're very unlucky that Wallace and Olding are both injured as well as I'd rather see either of them at 10 to McKinney.

We'll definitely be without Jackson now for this game, which is a shame when he was slated to play.

 Ulster hooker, Rory Best, is in line to become Ulster’s most capped Ireland international of all time, against England at Twickenham on Saturday.

The 31 year-old is set to win his 73rd cap, overtaking David Humphreys in the standings.

Has he now usurped the great Keith Wood as Irelands best hooker in the pro era?

I think he's getting there. Certainly if you take out Wood's Lions heroics Best is numero uno for me.... well technically he's numero uno numero duo but you get the picture...

Two tickets for Ulster vs Saracens booked   

The one guy who can be relied upon on the supporters site is indicating a Saffer 2nd Row on the way.

I''ll ask around

Is that the marquee signing Geoff?

Notch stop boasting, jealousy is an awful emotion for me to feel

As I have said all along a 6/7 Saffer and a Lock will be our big signings.

We know Keegan Daniels is being rumoured for the former this is a strong suggestion the later is being considered.

Given the rumour re Hagan, and given injury issues, the Robinson signings is drifting in the betting.

TH remains the hugh unknown

I wouldn’t be surprised by Andries Bekker. He went to Japan last year - but I can imagine Japan being the type of place that a year would be plenty for most people. He would still get decent money at Ulster no doubt, and similar age to Muller when he came.

Bekker has been a name bubbling under for a while but without anyone, at least to me, mentioning him - he is certaintly a possibillty

Sorry to hear the Robinson deal may be a goner, he looks like the real deal. Not a deal for us though

Looks like we will be without Henderson this weekend as McCarthy has been named on the Leinster bench. Unless Schmidt parachutes Ryan straight in (which I can't see). Robinson is injured indefinitely it seems at the minute. Might have to look elsewhere.

Its all negotiations at the moment.

My guess ,and its only that, is if we take Hagan and not Robinson then IRFU may allow us a Project style TH. We have a problem and they recognize that.

Would leave us with Williams, Pienaer, 6/7, Lock as NIQ and
TH as Project type player

Remember I said before Christmas we were after a 1,3, Lock, 6/7 and 10 with the Lock and 6/7 being the big signings.

The above fits that scenario

I'm more interested in Ferris to be honest. Its very doubtful any of our signings will be of the quality of a fully recovered Ferris. Yet we still have very little info on him.

Does anyone know why he didn't get a run out for Dungannon by the planned date?

A Stephen Ferris running on two well healed legs is as good as any signing - but there are just too many question marks still.

I definately want to be at ravers for the roar when he runs back out on that pitch again.

If we are relying on Ferris, Wallace or McAllister we would be mad.
Ferris return delayed again, ditto McAllister in difs - not looking good imo.
We need to assume they will not be there and if they are they are a bonus.
Even if Ferris returns he would be a 5 to 10 game a year man
Daniels would give us 25-30 games

geoff998rugby wrote:If we are relying on Ferris, Wallace or McAllister we would be mad.
Ferris return delayed again, ditto McAllister in difs - not looking good imo.
We need to assume they will not be there and if they are they are a bonus.
Even if Ferris returns he would be a 5 to 10 game a year man
Daniels would give us 25-30 games

geoff has McAllister not recovered from the ligament injury?

Twice come back and twice aggravated it - that is not a good sign.

On the basis you want a minimum of 3 players of a minimum standard for each front row position my take is we have the following lined up:

LH - Black, Murphy, McCall
Hooker - Best, Herring, Annett
TH - Fitzpatrick, Lutton, "ANOther"

If McAllister, Macklin or Ross offer anything extra it will be a bonus - we will not be relying on it

Geoff, would you put Murphy behind Black in the pecking order?

Was it not muscle injury last time out that sidelined him?

Clive I think it will be close all to play for.

Marty at least one of the injuries was Hamstring related not sure of the other one

McAllister had shown serious promise too, I do hope he can recover. He'll end up full time at Belfast zoo otherwise.
I have just about had it with all this waiting, I want to hear big names and I want to hear them now

Ah, for the days when we would wait to hear who Ulster had signed, then when it was announced we would look them up on wikipedia, and then they wouldn't be on wikipedia because they were shoite.

I miss Clinton Schifcofske!

You say you want big names; I say we've been spoilt. It might not be realistic to expect a Ruan Pienaar or a John Afoa every soon- in fact I know it isn't. And even then if you do get the big name he might turn out to be more of an Afoa than a Pienaar in terms of how committed he is to the club.

What is clear to me is that we still need options at 3, 5, 6/7 and 10 and I would rather have four good quality players than one big name. The more big names we go after the more I realise that true success can only come from within our own Academy. It's our failure to develop enough quality forwards and enough depth in the backs that leaves us so anxious about who we can sign.

Look at the quality of the front rows Leinster have, all but Strauss and Ross completely homegrown. I'll admit that Ulster have been unlucky in terms of the back row that we've lost Ferris, Pollock and McMillan to injury and in the front row with McAllister now missing but still. The changes are being made at Academy level but we are desperate for them to bear fruit...

I've been told that Keegan Daniel is a possibility. He hasn't been happy at the Sharks for some time. Apparently there has been a divide between the Afrikaners and the rest of the squad. Plumtree being shifted out didn't go down particularly well with some of the squad and Smit has rubbed some players up the wrong way. The only issue is that if he leaves at least two other South African franchises would be interested.

Anyone know anything about Sport Mediaset who are showing the Ulster Treviso match on Sunday. I assume we can't get it? And maybe there won't be much likelihood of the regular online sources having it either?

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the streaming sites will have it. I'll be scanning through them all just before kick off and see which one works.

clive the match is live on the red button and BBC website

Really Marty? That'll save me the bother then. Happy days!!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26243214

Just so you can blame BBC instead of me if it doesn't appear

Dan Tuohy has tweeted he is lifting weights with his injured arm.

That's a good sign 8 days after the op.

  he has the 'Best' powers of recovery

A very Ulster-centric RTE programme here, from Donegal, well worth a listen. Discussing Dave Gallaher, Donegal-born Captain of the Original All Blacks, Letterkenny RFC and grassroots rugby in the area- as well as chat with Paddy Wallace and Maurice Field.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/816/505696/

Adam Macklin on the bench this weekend.

Yeah I see that- John Afoa back in New Zealand for a family bereavement.

Pienaar at 10 just goes to show how little faith the coaches have in McKinney, unfortunately. Can Treviso be as bad as last week? If they defend like last week our back line will be loving it.

Sorry to hijack the thread but have the Italians signed up for the league next year? Trying to keep away from all those other threads, theyre just too depressing.

Last I heard Treviso had formally withdrawn from the Rabo with Zebre presumably likely to follow suit.

Last I heard the Italians were signing up until 2018

http://rugby1823.blogosfere.it/2014/02/pro-12-italia-in-celtic-league-fino-al-2018-e-ora.html

Zebre and Treviso are totally separate entities as one is Union run and the other a 'club' in the English or French sense (at least that's what I believed).

Oooops!

I had missed that. Sorry!

Who knows what will actually happen then?

Well it looks like Zebre will definitely stay. The Treviso issue is similar to the problem with the regions. Zebre get about twice as much funding and thats because they are run by the Union. Treviso are privately run, but want the same funding- without sacrificing their independence.

Probably like the regions we'll find they are bluffing and blustering with not much behind them. Now that the FIR look set not to go ahead with their own independent tournament where exactly are they going to go?

I think the Pro12 could have been in real trouble there, like a house of cards with the Welsh trying to leave, which chases away sponsors, causing the Italians to leave etc. But now it'd be a big, big surprise if anyone leaves for me. And with Sky Sports coming in as broadcast partners it'd be a surprise if a new sponsor isn't announced soon.

One thing about this weekend this is our team J Payne; C Gilroy, D Cave, L Marshall, M Allen; R Pienaar, P Marshall; T Court, R Herring, R Lutton; J Muller (capt), L Stevenson; R Diack, S Doyle, R Wilson
Now there are roughly 148 International caps in that team and just looking at it when was the last time Ulster could put out a team of that quality while missing 5 players to the Ireland team, Ferris, Wallace and Bowe to Injury as well as another Irish International to injury (Tuohy) and one of their best young players as well (Olding) and not forgetting off course a world cup winner in Afoa.
Shows how far they have come in recent years.