Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

One guy I think deserves high praise from these two Treviso games is Sean Doyle.
As you know I reported some doubt about his future and that he needed to put his hand - he has done so big time.

Few more games like that and he will be with us next year for sure.

Biltong wrote:I see the journalists are all wetting themselves over Pienaar's performance on the weekend.

It's inevitable isn't it Biltong? The place kickers always get the glory when it comes to high-stakes knockout rugby. Ask your average English person (not hardcore English rugby fan, just your average person) to name the first rugby player that comes into their head and I bet the majority say Jonny Wilkinson. Pienaar himself is incredibly modest, a real team man. Humble and magnanimous whenever the media come to him looking for a quote the first thing he mentions is either God or his teammates, usually both. I'm not religious at all but I have enormous respect for the way he conducts himself. He knows it takes a team of 15 men to win at a place like Welford Road, of course! But the journos need an angle to hang their story on.

I still think he does play better for Ulster than South Africa but games like the one at the weekend suit him better than the more open rugby of the Rugby Championship. That's all about tempo as far as the 9s are concerned. Ruans all round game has looked good for me, but the tempo provided by Du Preez suits the Boks better. This game was about the halfbacks kicking for field position, keeping their composure and bossing the game. In other words, tailor made for Ruan Pienaar. It wasn't played at the same tempo as the test matches in the summer but it was played with a massive amount of physicality and I wish that the journos would given the Ulster lads with numbers lower than 9 on their back a wee bit more credit myself.

Pretty much agree with you Notch. Pienaar's ability to control matches in the NH conditions suit Ulster very well.

My concern has been that the Boks have been elevating their game to monstering the breakdowns at pace, hitting hard running lines enmasse and for that they need a halfback that has accurate and quick service. I am not sure whether the years at Uslter have changed Pienaar to thepoint where he doesn't adapt well enough for the Springboks. But I firmly believe with him at ine we are playing a "safe" scrumhalf, and for our new approach to the attacking game that is not what we need.

Having said that Meyer does rate him highly and due to the fact that the next RWC will be played in Europe we will see a lot of him until then.

I wouldn't exactly be gutted if he was dropped and therefore available for even more games for Ulster, although I'm torn as he is a good man and I like to see good men succeed. I mean, with all due respect, I'm not overly concerned about South Africas form as a neutral other than how we can maybe beat 'em so I'm not really bothered if he isn't the right fit for you! It's interesting how poorly he is regarded in his home country. In most rugby-playing countries Pienaar would be a superstar, I guess that illustrates the gulf in class.

Talking of the right fit, any thoughts on Robbie Diack and Rob Herring being named in the squad for Ireland? I know your thoughts on CJ Stander, I was wondering if you feel the same way about Diack who has been here longer- this is his sixth season in Ireland as a pro rugby player and he doesn't seem to have any plans to return to South Africa, it seems like Belfast is home for him now.

Herring is different, this is his second season but he qualifies through a relative. Maybe a grandparent or something. Neither player is likely to make the match day squad against Scotland but both are likely to be involved in the 'A' international against England which will tie them to Ireland.

Yeah look, I was really peeved off about Stander, that in my eyes was direct poaching, but Robbie Diack is a good player, he didn't get a shot at the Boks, I reckon Ireland can benefit from him most definitely, Rob Herring I really don't know much about to be honest.

Stander doesnt look anywhere close to and Ireland cap given he cant crack the Munster HEC 23. His situation is strange to me.

Herring could be very very good with the right application. He is only 24 or something too.

The irony is that Diack is much close to that cap than Stander!   

Loving the moderate debate on these last few posts. No hysteria - just some general pleasure at where Ulster find themselves.

Over the next few weeks - my main hope is that the Irish coaching team find a good blend, from some good provincial performances. I read in one of the rags today that 15/16 of the 23 man squad would be from Leinster. This may well prove to be the case - the coaching team know them - but look at the performances by Munster and Leinster - and some of the Connacht boys have been first class. (tonking by Sarries aside...)

We (Ireland) should be approaching the 6Ns with real optimism. Yes - England have a tough pack. Yes Wales have a fantastic squad. Yes the French have a wonderful pool of players to chose from - but results in Europe count for something.

If Ireland pick a mostly Leinster team, I will understand - and be fully behind them :-)

Overall we have the playing units to go quite well.

Almost reaching the stage where I just want to see and Irish 15 take the field and show what we can do.

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Touhy
5. O'Connell
6. O'Mahoney
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. Darcy
13. Cave
14. Zebo
15. Kearney.

The rest is up to them!

Gwon Ireland.

Thought some here would be interested in this.  Such a tragic story.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/royal-school-armagh-s-captain-fantastic-1.1662845?fb_action_ids=10152224032992697&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=.Ut6K0ml5kKM.like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B424963197637165%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.recommends%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%22.Ut6K0ml5kKM.like%22%5D

I remember that awful incident in South Africa although I had no idea that team had lost another member so soon after.

I also know John McCall's tragic death had a profound affect on Paul Marshall. He was captain of the MCB team that year and said he was envious of McCall being able to lift that trophy. He has often spoken about how the loss of someone so young and so vital made him reassess his priorities.

John McCall was the pride of Armagh when he lifted that trophy aloft and there were people who were twice his age who looked up to him, I was one of them. As an ex Royal School boy myself I was welled up with pride to see that young man lead the team to victory, the Royal School Armagh was the home of the schools cup after all
It was gutting to hear of his passing, a bright light who would no doubt have an Ulster regular first teamer regular by now. So sad.

Biltong wrote:Pretty much agree with you Notch. Pienaar's ability to control matches in the NH conditions suit Ulster very well.

My concern has been that the Boks have been elevating their game to monstering the breakdowns at pace, hitting hard running lines enmasse and for that they need a halfback that has accurate and quick service. I am not sure whether the years at Uslter have changed Pienaar to thepoint where he doesn't adapt well enough for the Springboks. But I firmly believe with him at ine we are playing a "safe" scrumhalf, and for our new approach to the attacking game that is not what we need.

Having said that Meyer does rate him highly and due to the fact that the next RWC will be played in Europe we will see a lot of him until then.

Fourie Du Preez works like a terrier at the breakdown & around the bok pack. Ruan may be the best kicking nine in world rugby but in a dog fight game where the ball presentation is poor FdP has been much superior at recycling the ball. And he's unfazeable.
Would love to see Du Preez & a fit Johann Goosen this term.

Loads of talk about signings being announced this week and possibly today. Geoff, where for art thou..?

I think Fourie Du Preez is one of the best scrum-halves we've had in the pro era, very probably the best. At least in the last ten years. The other guy who comes close to that for me is Gus Pichot.

I'm attending a seminar tonight with some of the Ulster rugby development officers....they're usually tight lipped about things though but sometimes let things some inside info slip.....

Just reading up on the other forum - thinks are really heating up with the rumours!

A bit excited!

Give us the lowdown clive - I'll be sacked if I start reading the other forum in here!

Robbie Robinson (it's Robbie not Richie isn't it?) from the chiefs is one strongly mentioned

Yea, Robbie Robinson - as a project I think - covers 10 and 15 (theres footage online with him and a 12 on his back also)
He scored the winning try for the Cheifs in the S15 final there.

Also mentioned and not shot down is Rurdri Murphy and Keegan Daniels.

Also, they have said that another announcement will be made that will divide opinion. Not new signings related.

I’m hoping they are talking about Anscombe. I know a lot of ones on the other forum don’t rate him.

But I’m a little worried - is there any of our players that haven’t yet been tied down to a new contract??? Other than Muller of course.

Robinson looked good when he was a highlander. I haven't watched as much since he joined the chiefs

Exciting stuff.

One of the guys who always seems to be in the know on t'other forum is telling us to 'get excited people'

I am already, I just wish they would give up the names.

A Brumbie (Murphy?) a Chief (Robinson) and another hmmmmm ...........

Francois Louw also in the chat

Louw signed a contract with Bath till 2017 or something like that. It's getting silly now

Well that just makes me doubt everything then! Its hard to decipher what to trust over there. Its a mile a minute - and I don't quite get the banter half the time!

This speculation is always silly! Remember when they said we'd sign Ruan P... hmm.

Ah well. Sometimes they're right. But its often wrong.

wow wow wow - when is Cave contracted till?? Somebody tell me! Does his current contract end this summer?

I think I need a cup of tea and a lie down. All this speculation is not healthy! Where the hell is Geoff?

clivemcl wrote:wow wow wow - when is Cave contracted till?? Somebody tell me! Does his current contract end this summer?

End of next season.

Standulstermen wrote:

clivemcl wrote:wow wow wow - when is Cave contracted till?? Somebody tell me! Does his current contract end this summer?

End of next season.

Good Good - either way - at that point I wouldn't blame him for taking more money elsewhere.

We need Geoff to ring some sanity. GEOFF WHERE ARE YOU!!!!!!!

Also noticing that the rumour which started the chaos on the other forum is of a multi capped all black in his latter years. None of the names that emerged were relevant to this info.

Backrow/lock?

McCaw? .....

Just reading back on Geoffs comments. The NIQ is at lock. SO... Retallick? Ali Williams?

I never know who to believe on that forum, or the wider media for that matter. I mean I'm sure we all remember being told that Ruan had signed for a french club. Thank goodness that turned out to be balderdash.

Ulster surely would be an attractive prospect for any player to sign for right now so if we are to be excited I am aiming high (only in my head though so I don't look daft).

clivemcl wrote:Just reading back on Geoffs comments. The NIQ is at lock. SO... Retallick? Ali Williams?

Brad Thorn??

Been busy - just droping in to give an assessment of new signings specualtion.

Robinson - 90% - looks likes a done deal
Murphy - 50%
Daniels - 30%. Heard contradictory words on this but he does fit the profile of what we want
Luow - 0% - utter nonsense

Of the above only Daniels would be NIQ so a 2nd Row still to come
Also will still be looking another IQ/project type player for prop

Is that Robbie Robinson from the Chiefs??

Yes

That's a good signing if it comes off.

Seen as covering both 10 and 15 I understand and with so many players away with Ireland will, alongside Pienaer keep the weakened backs in order.

So for Internationals we could still go Pienaer, Robinson, Wallace, Cave and 3 kids on the wing and 15.

If you think of it during an RWC year we could still field

Marshall
Robinson
Trimble/Gilroy
Wallace/Farrell
Cave?
Allen
Nelson

That's taking one of Gilroy and Trimble out and assuming we won't have Pienaar, Jackson, Payne, Marshall, Olding and Bowe

With regard to Daniels listed above is that in fact Keegan Daniel from the Sharks?

Robbie Robinson is a really good player. He could well become a starter at 15, if Payne will be playing 13 at all next season.

Artful_Dodger wrote:With regard to Daniels listed above is that in fact Keegan Daniel from the Sharks?

Yes - can play 6 and 7 which is part of the remit and is not quite good enough to be in Saffers 23 .
Ideal

geoff998rugby wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:With regard to Daniels listed above is that in fact Keegan Daniel from the Sharks?

Yes - can play 6 and 7 which is part of the remit and is not quite good enough to be in Saffers 23 .
Ideal

Would be a very good signing, lets see how things develop

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Robbie Robinson is a really good player.  He could well become a starter at 15, if Payne will be playing 13 at all next season.

The plot thickens.... not good news for Cave and Olding one would presume....

Olding will be going nowhere

Nor is Cave for at least a year.

Olding is going nowhere for years and years.
I predict a 4 year contract next autumn and it will definitely be 3 years.

Long term I can see Cave struggling - big decision next autumn

Wasn't suggesting they were.