1872 Cup Thread 2014: Glasgow vs Edinburgh

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :


 
It's that time again. The oldest club fixture in world rugby.
Glasgow looking for an unprecedented fifth successive win.
Bring it.
 

 
It's the the social club versus the golf club, the unwashed versus the exfoliators, the heroin users versus the social drinkers, the chips & cheese versus the salt & sauce, the ramraiders versus the online bank hackers, the knock-off Rolecks versus the original Pateks and the cardiac arrest versus the stress-related work sign-off for a fortnight.
 
A. The Fixtures
 
Round 1
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield Library
 
Referee: Neil Paterson (SRU, 57th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Bob Nevins (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Cole (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
Round 2
Saturday 26 April 2014, 19:05
Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun Stadium
 
Referee: Mathieu Raynal (FFR, 2nd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Graeme Marshall (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Douglas Hunter (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
B. Form - head to head
 
20 Played 20
11 Wins 8
8 Losses 11
1 Draws 1
37 Tries 34
22 Conversions 22
53 Penalties 55
11 Drop Goals 5
421 Points 394
26 Avg. Age 26
 
C. Form - last year & this
 
Friday 21 December 2012, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 23 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun
 
Saturday 29 December 2012, 16:05
Edinburgh Rugby 17 - 21 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield
 
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield

D. Teams
 
Round 1:
 
(i) Edinburgh

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tom Brown
10 Greig Tonks
09 Greig Laidlaw (c)
 
01 Wicus Blaauw
02 Ross Ford
03 Willem Nel
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Ollie Atkins
06 Cornell Du Preez
07 Roddy Grant
08 David Denton
 
16 Aleki Lutui
17 Alex Allan
18 Geoff Cross
19 Izak van der Westhuizen
20 Mike Coman
21 Grayson Hart
22 Tony Fenner
23 Sam Beard
 
(ii) Glasgow

15. Sean Maitland
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Stuart Hogg
12. Alex Dunbar
11. DTH van der Merwe
10. Duncan Weir
09. Chris Cusiter (c)
 
01. Ryan Grant
02. Pat MacArthur
03. Jon Welsh
04. Tim Swinson
05. Tom Ryder
06. Rob Harley
07. Tyrone Holmes
08. Ryan Wilson
 
16. Dougie Hall
17. Gordon Reid
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Josh Strauss
21. Chris Fusaro
22. Henry Pyrgos
23. Ruaridh Jackson
 
Round 2
 
(i) Glasgow
 
15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Finn Russell
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Ruaridh Jackson
09. Chris Cusiter

01. Ryan Grant
02. Dougie Hall
03. Jon Welsh
04. Jonny Gray
05. Al Kellock (Captain)
06. Rob Harley
07. Chris Fusaro
08. Josh Strauss

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Duncan Weir
23. Richie Vernon
 
(ii) Edinburgh

15 Cuthbert
14 Brown
13 Scott
12 Strauss
11 Visser
10 Bezuidenhout
09 Laidlaw (c)

08 Denton
07 Du Preez
06 Coman
05 van der Westhuizen
04 Gilchrist
03 Nel
02 Ford
01 Dickinson

16 Hilterbrand
17 Blaauw
18 Berghan
19 Toolis
20 Leonardi
21 Hart
22 Francis
23 Beard

[tigertattie]

Part of me wants to stuff the soap dodgers. Part of me wants to give them the bonus point win.

I'm going for the typically Scottish outcome. Glasgow win but no BP so they don't get the home semi.

[jimbopip]

Having seen Toonie's comments about how important this game is I suspect we will see a full-strength 23 and those players who may be called on for the play-offs getting their chance to impress in the final two games.
So, deep breath

1. Grant
2. Hall
3. Angela
4. Wee Jonny
5. Swinson
6. Bluto
7. Fozzie
8. Wilson
9. Cooseater
10.Russell
11. Seymour
12 Dunbar
13   
14. Maitland
15. Murchie

16. Shrek
17. WeePee
18. Dr Cross
19. Naka
20. Harley
21. MadMata
22. Hornee Furra Linee
23. Richie Vee

The big one for me is 10. I think Russell gets this match to nail the jersey and the next two to bed himself in (to mix my metaphors) or Toonie finally chooses between Meatball and the soon to be gone one. Horne on the bench gives more options than Meatball of Jacko.
Murchie deserves to stay in the side but I expect Hogg to be given the next two games to show if he's ready for the play offs.
Interestingly, the pack more or less picks itself, Grant looked dynamic in the loose on Friday and that probably will get him a start, but the backs are where we seem to have lots of permutations. Whichever set Toonie goes for should be far too good for the Sherry and Woman's Hour brigade.
Whatever it takes.

[jimbopip]

Oh and Jedi and Wilson have signed contracts.    

[IanBru]

Meatball of Jacko.

Worst. Jackson Five tribute band. Ever.

[jimbopip]

Ah Ian, well done you spotted my deliberate mistake. Go to the top of the class. I knew neither FES nor RDW would get it : it's very difficult to read through the tears.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Great news for Big Jim 'Jedi' Eddie and Ryan 'A Proper Enforcer' Wilson. Where are all the Weegie diaspora going to watch this on Saturday? You lot should be getting into trains, planes automobiles to get back here and cheer us on v the MFLs.

[jimbopip]

If only it were possible Schiz mi amigo. It's the rugby club fun day on Saturday. Pippetto is playing for the under 11's in the morning and I'm turning out for the Vet's in the afternoon in what could be my last ever game if common sense prevails. I'm hoping that we can get the game in the clubhouse as Princess daughter has said she'll come and collect me when I feel it's time to say good bye. Otherwise it's back to the homestead and screaming at the computer.
Of course if the Vet's win and Glasgow slaughter the effeminates and I've been forced to partake of alcohol then I may just decide that rugby's easy and commit to another season.   

[jimbopip]

Great news for Big Jim 'Jedi' Eddie and Ryan 'A Proper kebab shop Enforcer' Wilson.    Where are all the Weegie diaspora going to watch this on Saturday?   You lot should be getting into trains, planes automobiles to get back here and cheer us on v the MFLs.

Fixed it for you , no charge.  

[IanBru]

1. Grant
2. Hall
3. Angela
4. Wee Jonny
5. Swinson
6. Bluto
7. Fozzie
8. Wilson
9. Cooseater
10.Russell
11. Seymour
12 Dunbar
13   
14. Maitland
15. Murchie

16. Shrek
17. WeePee
18. Dr Cross
19. Naka
20. Harley
21. MadMata
22. Hornee Furra Linee
23. Richie Vee

Exactly the team I'd pick, Jimbo, exactly. Seriously, why aren't we all assistant coaches for Toonie?

I have a strange feeling that Edinburgh will be a tough old nut to crack. We're absolutely mad if we think they're going to bend over the table for Glasgow, and even if they're playing for pride, that can be one hell of a motivator. It looks like Atkins and VDW will be back, so we'll need a tough-as-oak boiler-house to dominate at the breakdown. The two Edinburgh backs I really fear, Scott and Visser, will definitely be starting. We saw on Saturday that when they combine well they are difficult to stop. We'll need tough and mobile centres to shut down the space.

The points situation is remarkably simple. Glasgow need to win all three matches with two try bonuses to guarantee a home semi-final.
For every bonus point that Munster fail to get (i.e. any drop below their maximum possible ten points) is a point that we don't need to gain. Even if we're tied on points, we'll be ahead of them because we would have won more matches.

One important game management point arises in our last three matches. Against Ulster and Munster it was as important to deny them the losing bonus as it was to gain the try bonus. We were naturally cautious in the last twenty minutes, with the match already won, not to let them come close to us. By contrast, our last three matches are against sides who we aren't competing with. If we're twenty points up in the final quarter, there is very little to lose by going balls-to-the-wall in attack to gain that fourth try. By this, I mean we put on Niko and Isles, we shift Naka and Strauss to the centre (ok, maybe not that bit...), and we toss the ball around.

And so, it has been written.

[RDW]

Bru - where did you hear that Atkins and VDV will be back? We'll be well and truly shafted if we're down down academy players like the zebre game.

[IanBru]

Ah, sorry RDW - I got a bit confused about Atkins.

Still, according to Solomons, Gilchrist and VDW will be back.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/rugby/near-neighbours-are-some-distance-apart.24006445

I'm strangely excited by this - it'll be great to see how the future of Scotland's second row compares in Gilchrist v Ickle Jonny.

[RDW]

Gonna be a tough task for Solomons this week to try to pick up the Edinburgh players and give them some confidence. A worrying trait of this Edinburgh team the past few years is that when heads go down or players lose interest we lose by 50 points. We have to be near our best to be competitive, and anything less than that will result in a horsing.

There really is no excuse for our shocking defence the last few games. Our defence was pretty good in the middle of the season and was key to our big HK victories. It must be down to player fatigue/lack of interest, but with the top 3 teams in the league coming up the players really need to get interested again very, very quickly.

Likely Edinburgh team:

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Nel
4 Gilchrist
5 VDV
6 Coman people
7 De Preez
8 Balders

9 Hart
10 Leonard
11 Visser
12 Strauss
13 Scott
15 Brown
16 Cuthbert

Subs Blaauw, Hilterbrand, Berghan, Toolis, Leonardi, S-H-C, Bezzy, Beard

[EWT Spoons]

Edinburgh are most likely going to get owned in this game, leaving the field broken and embarrassed, but I have to be honest, and I feel slightly dirty* in saying this, but I’m really enjoying watching Glasgow play at the moment.  They’re disturbingly good in defence and attack.  Plus what’s even more pleasing is that of the 15 that started against Ulster last week, 14 of them are SQ and the other is in line to be SQ ( I think).

It’s also nice seeing promising young Scottish players getting a chance, with the like of Russell and Bennett getting a run out in recent weeks.

In contrast Edinburgh look a shambles.  I am hopeful that next season we can start to try and emulate Glasgow’s success, or at the very least look halfway competent.   

*obligatory soap dodging reference   

[Captain_Sensible]

I was thinking about this during the week, and is there any Edinburgh player who would get into a first-choice, Glasgow match-day squad?

Rennie and Cross spring to mind, but they can hardly be counted as Edinburgh players anymore. Matt Scott at a push, but beyond that, no one.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Nice work there, Spoons, see what you did

I think this game might be closer that a lot of folk are assuming - derbies have a way of being nail-biting in general.

If Glasgow do manage to win the league, then Toonie will have gone further up in my regard for how he's managed the squad over the season and seems to have it peaking at just the right time - not always been a supporter of his, but credit where it's due

[Captain_Sensible]

Nice work there, Spoons, see what you did

I think this game might be closer that a lot of folk are assuming - derbies have a way of being nail-biting in general.

If Glasgow do manage to win the league, then Toonie will have gone further up in my regard for how he's managed the squad over the season and seems to have it peaking at just the right time - not always been a supporter of his, but credit where it's due

If Glasgow do win the league, it will be the most impressive achievement from a manager and group of players in the Scottish game since the 1990 Grand Slam, and should be viewed as just as significant.

[RDW]

Given that Scott-Dunbar are the long term solution to Scotland's centre woes (hopefully), would Scott not be more than 'at a push'?

It is a fair point though.

The likes of Du Preez, Dickinson, Denton, Visser etc would no doubt get a lot of gametime over a season if they were in the Glasgow Squad, but they would in no way be guaranteed starters.

There's plenty Scotland internationalists in the Glasgow squad that aren't guaranteed starters!

[Captain_Sensible]

Given that Scott-Dunbar are the long term solution to Scotland's centre woes (hopefully), would Scott not be more than 'at a push'?

It is a fair point though.  

The likes of Du Preez, Dickinson, Denton, Visser etc would no doubt get a lot of gametime over a season if they were in the Glasgow Squad, but they would in no way be guaranteed starters.

There's plenty Scotland internationalists in the Glasgow squad that aren't guaranteed starters!

Oh sure, there would be a number of Embra players that would get gametime at Glasgow over an entire season. I was more talking about picking a combined match day squad right now. You make a good point re Scott, but apart from him there are no other good candidates at Embra. The gulf is application, approach and class at the moment is massive.

I'm saying this as an Edinburgh lad and an Edinburgh fan, by the way.

[RDW]

I know you are, and I'm in agreement!

I don't think there's such a vast difference in the quality of individuals in Glasgow's strongest XV and Edinburgh's, but the collective being that is Glasgow is significantly superior in all aspects really. That comes down to coaching, attitude and confidence.

Let's hope that can translate that into Scotland form too...

[Captain_Sensible]

I know you are, and I'm in agreement!

I don't think there's that big a difference in the quality of individuals in Glasgow's strongest XV and Edinburgh's, but the collective being that is Glasgow is significantly superior in all aspects really. That comes down to coaching, attitude and confidence.

Let's hope that can translate that into Scotland form too...

Hmmmm, I disagree with the bit in bold. Player wise, Glasgow have a fair edge in the front row, second row, scrum half, fly-half, centres, wing and fullback. Everywhere bar back row, where they are still in front anyway. That's why they are in the top four and why, to a large extent, Edinburgh have lost three on the bounce.

You're right that coaching, attitude and confidence make a massive difference, but Toonie has a much better squad to work with.

If I was Cotter, I'd be tempted to pick an almost all-Glasgow first XV for Scotland right now. Kelly Brown, Richie Gray and Matt Scott would be the only non-Weedge players to make it in.

Essentially...

Reid, Hall, Welsh
Gray, Gray
Brown, Wilson, Fusaro
Cusiter, Russell
Maitland, Scott, Dunbar, Seymour,
Hogg

Bench - Dickinson, MacArthur, Murray, Swinson, Denton, ???, ???, Fife

[RDW]

I'm not saying Glasgow don't have that the better players generally, I'm saying there isn't that big a difference on an individual level.

Glasgow has an all international front row, Edinburgh has 2 internationalists and a project player

Glasgow have a young up and coming 2nd row capped by Scotland (Gray) and a more experience player capped by Scotland (Swinson) , Edinburgh also have a young up and coming internationalist (Gilchrist), and a NSQ player (VDV)

Edinburgh's backrow of Du Preez, Denton and Grant is probably the closest unit we have to matching Glasgow's Strauss-Wilson-Fusaro.  A combined backrow would probably be Du Prezz-Fusaro-Strauss with Denton on the bench.


So in an individual player level there isn't that much difference in the pack.  As a unit though Glasgow are much more effective.


Glasgow definitely have the advantage in the backs though. Both teams have been having issues at 10 but Glasgow have two internationalists on the books whereas our options are pretty sparse.

Matt Scott is the shining light in an ordinary back division, whereas Glasgow are spoilt for choice in the centre with Dunbar, Bennet, Horne, Russell, Vernon and even Lamont if needed

Again on the wings Glasgow have so much depth.  I'd take an on form Visser over any of them other than Maitland, but he is inconsistent and we all know about his defence.

Hogg is the obvious standout at 15 but there's not much difference between Tonks, Murchie and Cuthbert IMO.


So again to reiterate - individually I don't think there's a significant difference. Glasgow's sum of their collective parts is a whole lot greater though.

[Captain_Sensible]

I'm not saying Glasgow don't have that the better players generally, I'm saying there isn't that big a difference on an individual level.

Glasgow has an all international front row, Edinburgh has 2 internationalists and a project player

Glasgow have a young up and coming 2nd row capped by Scotland (Gray) and a more experience player capped by Scotland (Swinson) , Edinburgh also have a young up and coming internationalist (Gilchrist), and a NSQ player (VDV)

Edinburgh's backrow of Du Preez, Denton and Grant is probably the closest unit we have to matching Glasgow's Strauss-Wilson-Fusaro.  A combined backrow would probably be Du Prezz-Fusaro-Strauss with Denton on the bench.


So in an individual player level there isn't that much difference in the pack.  As a unit though Glasgow are much more effective.


Glasgow definitely have the advantage in the backs though. Both teams have been having issues at 10 but Glasgow have two internationalists on the books whereas our options are pretty sparse.

Matt Scott is the shining light in an ordinary back division, whereas Glasgow are spoilt for choice in the centre with Dunbar, Bennet, Horne, Russell, Vernon and even Lamont if needed

Again on the wings Glasgow have so much depth.  I'd take an on form Visser over any of them other than Maitland, but he is inconsistent and we all know about his defence.

Hogg is the obvious standout at 15 but there's not much difference between Tonks, Murchie and Cuthbert IMO.


So again to reiterate - individually I don't think there's a significant difference. Glasgow's sum of their collective parts is a whole lot greater though.

Still can't agree with that lats sentence, RDW. You've basically admitted that Glasgow's entire back line is superior to Edinburgh's, bar one player, maybe two. That's a pretty significant difference in my book.

In terms of the pack, Dickinson's a handy player, but Ford has been shocking this season, and Nel is frequently found out during scrums. Glasgow's front row should clean Edinburgh's clock on Saturday. In the second row, the sheer work-rate of Swinson and Gray is insane. I've never seen anything approaching it from VDV and Gilchrist, decent though they may be. As you say, the backrow is more even. On the whole though, Glasgow have almost always had forward dominance or parity during this season's games. Edinburgh really haven't. Again, coaching is important, but the Weedge have a higher individual calibre of player to work with across their squad than Embra. In some cases, much higher.

[RDW]

I think we're generally in agreement, but you're taking what I'm saying a bit too literally maybe or I'm not being clear.

What I'm saying is that, if both strongest XVs are picked and every player is on top form, it's not as if Glasgow's players individually would on average be rated as 8/10 and Edinburgh only 3/10. Yes Glasgow have a higher calibre of players generally across the whole squad, but we're hardly talking Real Madrid vs Stenhousemuir.

Proof of this I suppose is looking at what happens when they play for Scotland. Both Edinburgh and Glasgow players have been poor for Scotland this year, but when the Glasgow players go back to Glasgow they put in strong performances and work much better as a team.

Also worth noting that the core of the squad that beat Munster, Leinster, Ospreys Perpignan and Gloucester have also lost to Treviso, Connact, Zebre and the Blues this year. This shows they do have the ability to do it, but consistency and commitment has been way off in 2014.

So I'm essentially saying I think think it's more down to attitude, desire, coaching and mindset more than a lack of talent generally. We could do with a better reserve front row and wingers, a decent 10 and 13 though.

[tigertattie]

This is one game that BBC Alba really need to offer a red button commentary on!

Surely it will be the most watch program on the channel????

[GLove39]

This is one game that BBC Alba really need to offer a red button commentary on!

Surely it will be the most watch program on the channel????

Nonsense, nothing beats the sound of Hugh Dan MacLennan yelling, “Furrrraaaaaaa Lineeeeeeeeee”

[RDW]

Surely it will be the most watch program on the channel????

I dunno like, De a-nis is one hell of a programme!

I really don't think we should moan about Alba being in gaelic. Yes there's very little point in it being Gaelic, but they have shown club rugby in Scotland for a number of seasons now when no one else would. If it wasn't for them we would only have seen games broadcast by BBC Wales and S4C, and we all know what the quality of those broadcasts are like!

[TJ]

I suspect Alba got the rights cheaper than BBC scotland would as its a minority channel. I seem to remeber that BBC scotland thought it too expensive

[RDW]

Fairly damming stuff from Tom English on the BBS sport website

On Saturday evening at Scotstoun, Glasgow Warriors will host Edinburgh in a Scottish derby in the Pro12.

It will be trumpeted as a great local rivalry, but the reality is that these two clubs can be bracketed together only by geography. In the way they are performing on the field, and off, they are worlds apart.

Glasgow operate on a different plain. They have just won five games in a row in this competition. A week ago, they turned over Heineken Cup semi-finalists Munster in Limerick and followed it up by beating Heineken Cup quarter-finalists Ulster in Glasgow. That is one hell of a double over two of Europe's finest outfits.

Warriors are fourth in the Pro12 and are pushing for a home semi-final in the play-offs. Edinburgh are a distant eighth. Their hopes of making the top four died long ago.

Alan Solomons, the Edinburgh coach, has also given up on making the top six. He has conceded that they will not qualify for the new European Champions Cup next season.

Gregor Townsend, his Glasgow counterpart, has got the balance just right between home-grown players and imports who do not just take a pay cheque but also make a difference. They have some key foreigners in their ranks, but are unmistakeably Scottish in their make-up. They have some terrific Scottish prospects in the team or on the verge.
Glasgow have got their stuff together. They have left Edinburgh behind in their slipstream.

Last week, in the wake of Edinburgh's defeat by Cardiff in the Pro12, Solomons offered the opinion that his team are making good progress and are on the right track.

The comments came and went and nobody really challenged him. Maybe because Edinburgh have ceased to be a factor. They are almost an irrelevance.

It has got so bad for Edinburgh that even the coach's hubris is met with indifference. Last Saturday, they lost for the 12th time in the league this season. This time it was to Zebre, who are bottom of the league and who had won only three of their previous 19 league matches until Edinburgh's soft touches came to town.

In other words, they have lost 63% of their games in the Pro12. They have three terribly difficult ones to play - away to Glasgow, home to Munster and away to Leinster. They need to win one of them to avoid replicating the win-loss return of last season, a rate of failure that cost Michael Bradley his job.

Where, you have to ask, is this progress that Solomons has spoken about?

Edinburgh live an unloved, nomadic existence. Every time you watch them play, they have a batch of players from the southern hemisphere, each one hailed by Solomons as the second coming of Todd Blackadder in terms of quality and influence, but few have lived up to their billing. Edinburgh are a pretty soulless team led by a man who is benefitting from a cosy culture at the Scottish Rugby Union.

After that Cardiff loss, Solomons bemoaned the conditioning of his players. He partly put this down to the fact that he only fetched-up at Edinburgh two weeks before the beginning of the season, at which point it was too late to get his team conditioned the way he would have wanted.

He pointed out that, in his previous job, as director of rugby at the Southern Kings in Super Rugby, his players were perfect examples of conditioning at its scientific best.

"They are not in the same league," said Solomons, when asked to compare his new team to his previous side in fitness terms. "In that league, we had 10 games in a row, including going to Australia and New Zealand.

"We went on tour and played the Crusaders then played the Hurricanes, then played the Brumbies, then played the Rebels, and then went straight back home and played the Bulls. That gives you an idea of the massively high level you are trying to play week-in and week-out. Now, in order to cope with that, you have to be appropriately conditioned and that made the difference for us."

What Solomons did not mention, of course, is that his team won only one of those five games he referred to. They conceded 55 points to the Crusaders and 46 points to the Hurricanes. The last in that series, at home to the Bulls, resulted in a 34-0 defeat for the Kings, who finished 15th and last in the competition.

Secondly, it was the fault of the SRU that Solomons and his battery of coaches were not around to conduct pre-season. They allowed him to stay on in South Africa for most of the summer and left Edinburgh without their top man at a time when they needed to be putting in the foundations for the months ahead.

Thirdly, the Edinburgh squad that lost to Cardiff and sparked the conditioning comments contained 10 players Solomons signed. How was their conditioning? How was the conditioning of the Edinburgh team that failed so miserably against Zebre?

That side had six Solomons signings in the starting line-up and another four on the bench.

The truth is that Edinburgh have been a failure this season. Maybe not quite as hopeless as last season, but pretty grim all the same. If that is the progress that Solomons refers to - ie, not as bad as Bradley - then it tells you something about the Edinburgh mindset.

Solomons' view is that once the squad beds-down and has a proper pre-season under their belt then they will fly. This is the kind of 'jam tomorrow' line we have heard from Scotland director of rugby Scott Johnson. Maybe he will be proved right. You dearly hope that he will be. But he doesn't half test the faith when he bangs on about the progress made this season.

Mark Dodson, the chief executive, has given Solomons licence to sign almost 20 foreign players on contracts of varying lengths. Some qualify to play for Scotland, many do not. With the odd exception, they look a very average lot. It is early days, of course. But, on what we have seen so far of Solomons' recruitment technique, quality control seems to have given way to the scattergun.

Meanwhile, Glasgow move forward. Fifteen wins from 19 league games. Four defeats but three of them by a converted try or less. Only one defeat by more than seven points in the entire Pro12 season. Townsend does not need to apply a Solomons-esque top-spin to that performance. It speaks for itself.

On Saturday night, they come together at Scotstoun, one side in pursuit of silverware, the other trying to salvage some respect.

[TJ]

I don't think we can judge Solomans yet - but its been a worryingly poor season. A few times its looked like they were getting it together but then comes a step back again like the Zebre match. They still look like a team with no leadership

[RDW]

The win % is as bad as last year, but the 3 big HK wins and wins over Leinster and Ospreys are enough to have some form of hope for the future. They weren't just sneaky wins, we genuinely played very well and outplayed top class opposition.

If we played like that every week we'd be challenging for the top 6 by this stage of the season.

[BigGee]

Look at how the two Welsh derby's went at the weekend. Dragons, who have if anything been poorer than Edinburgh in the second half of the season gave Ospreys a decent game and in denying them a bonus point probably scuppered their playoff hopes. Cardiff, who have been a bit of a joke all year (except when playing Glasgow in the HC) managed to put the Scarlets away!

Derby's never go to form and this is a banana skin for the Warriors. They will have to work for the win and even harder for the bonus point, even though both should still be within their grasp. If they believe the hype and take their eye off the ball an upset could easily happen, I am sure Edinburgh will be up for this game.

However it goes though, it should not give Edinburgh any false sense of security about their season. They have played some good games and do have some very good players but they have been so inconsistent. I think the squad size and management has been a huge problem. Far to many players frozen out, many for good reasons, but it has asked to much of the ones that have played and they look like they have nothing left to give.

Its a derby at the end of the day though, they will find something left in the tank!

[tigertattie]

Solomons is going to live or die by his comments.  If he cannot get the team performing after they have had a full pre season under him then his comments are going to come back and bite him on the backside.

For me, a lot of the "conditioning issues" are due to Solomons deciding that player rotation is a myth!

As for the slating of his signings, players like Du Preez have done the business for us, but players like Strauss are just "meh"

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

At least Tom English is not pulling his punches. Some of those players at the Zebre match should not have been on that field in an Edinburgh top. There are some real mercenaries in that team tbh.

[BigGee]

I think it is only fair to give him another full year to start making a difference. Some of his complaints about conditioning and the squad he inherited have some truth in them. Players like Nikki Walker, signed last year have not even played once! He has also signed some young Scottish prospects for next year and we still don't know how many of the stop gaps will be retained at the end of the year.

This is not Man united at the end of the day and ditching a coach after 10 months makes no sense, He does come with a pedigree and seemed like the man for the job when he was appointed. He may still turn out to be!

[BigGee]

At least Tom English is not pulling his punches.  Some of those players at the Zebre match should not have been on that field in an Edinburgh top.   There are some real mercenaries in that team tbh.    

Hopefully some of them have played themselves out of a new contract after that performance!

[tigertattie]

No one is saying sack Solomons (I think)

But he is putting a massive target on his back saying that he needs a pre season with the squad.  Once he gets it, if he doesn't deliver on his promise then ouchies!

[George Carlin]

Glasgow need to keep the intensity up for this game and I think will name an almost full strength squad. Two reasons - 1. I honestly don't think it's feasible for us to lose to Zebre or Treviso on current form. It is definitely possible for Glasgow to lose to Edinburgh; 2. We will probably need at least 2 TBPs to get a home semi. Really silly to pressurise ourselves to have to get those in the final two games.

For what it's worth, I think Tom English is rather harsh on Solomons, whom I just don't recall talking up what Edinburgh were supposed to achieve this season. And all he said about next season is that they'd be a lot better than this season. Which they will.

[BigGee]

No one is saying sack Solomons (I think)

But he is putting a massive target on his back saying that he needs a pre season with the squad.  Once he gets it, if he doesn't deliver on his promise then ouchies!

I think a few would like to see the back of him but most will be happy to let things run on for now. However I don't see him still here at the end of next season if things have not improved from this year. I don't mean win the league better either, just more consistent performances and just being generally more competitive than they have been. It is not going to be turned round that quickly, but it can be done. Glasgow did not become a good team overnight either!

[TJ]

No one is saying sack Solomons (I think)

But he is putting a massive target on his back saying that he needs a pre season with the squad.  Once he gets it, if he doesn't deliver on his promise then ouchies!

Yup - he needs to have a much better season next year with a good run in the amlin, and a top 6 ( or very near miss) in the Rabo

[justified sinner]

Just saw this on the Rabo site preview.

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (FFR, 2nd competition game)


Surely not, I know Edinburgh get newby refs all the time, because they're one if the bottom half teams, but surely this match should have an experienced ref. Or at least a Scottish ref as normal.

[IanBru]

That's genuinely bizarre - the one match where we don't need a neutral referee, and we get one from outside of the competition, and yet we were forced to put up with an Irish referee (with all the implications of bias, whether founded or unfounded) against Ulster last week?

I just don't see the point of all this!

[IanBru]

I've just checked the interwebloggosphere, and Wikipedia comes up with this genuinely terrifying sentence:

However [Raynal's] first match in charge of a teir 1 fixture was the 24 November 2012 Autumn international clash between Scotland and Tonga in Aberdeen

I suppose there's some small comfort in knowing that one Scottish side will win this match. Unless there's a draw.

There's going to be a draw.

[RDW]

Is there no Scottish pro 12 refs anymore? They weren't very good to be fair...

[Majestic83]

Byron mcguigan saying on twitter he is flying to nz tonight? Holiday, leaving Glasgow? Even though he isn't getting much game time it would be a weird time to let someone go on holiday

[tigertattie]

away to get a pre-season in at some 3rd division kiwi team?

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

So Byron is offski by the sounds of it. Scored some reasonable tries but was not really up for the fight and remains one of Toonie's stranger signings.

[Majestic83]

having a quick look on google it looks like Byron played for a club team in NZ in 2011 so possibly heading back out there.

[jimbopip]

So Byron is offski by the sounds of it.   Scored some reasonable tries but was not really up for the fight and remains one of Toonie's stranger signings.  

Does he not like kebabs then?  

[George Carlin]

He was perfectly reasonable, but he did fit into the 'barking' bracket.

He was fine injury cover for Maitland and DTH, but obviously wasn't as good a winger as either.

He also did fine in the centre whilst Bennett was crocked but I always preferred Ascarate to be honest and once your position is under thread by someone who literally used to be a forward, I kind of agree that the writing was on the wall.

Mind you, it looks like a bit of a Liza Minnelli hissy to not actually stay with your team until the end of the season. I presume that they're still paying him.

[IanBru]

Hey folks, I've now got two spare tickets available - main stand, block G, front row.

PM me if you're interested.

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