1872 Cup Thread 2014: Glasgow vs Edinburgh

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :


 
It's that time again. The oldest club fixture in world rugby.
Glasgow looking for an unprecedented fifth successive win.
Bring it.
 

 
It's the the social club versus the golf club, the unwashed versus the exfoliators, the heroin users versus the social drinkers, the chips & cheese versus the salt & sauce, the ramraiders versus the online bank hackers, the knock-off Rolecks versus the original Pateks and the cardiac arrest versus the stress-related work sign-off for a fortnight.
 
A. The Fixtures
 
Round 1
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield Library
 
Referee: Neil Paterson (SRU, 57th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Bob Nevins (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Cole (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
Round 2
Saturday 26 April 2014, 19:05
Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun Stadium
 
Referee: Mathieu Raynal (FFR, 2nd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Graeme Marshall (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Douglas Hunter (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
B. Form - head to head
 
20 Played 20
11 Wins 8
8 Losses 11
1 Draws 1
37 Tries 34
22 Conversions 22
53 Penalties 55
11 Drop Goals 5
421 Points 394
26 Avg. Age 26
 
C. Form - last year & this
 
Friday 21 December 2012, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 23 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun
 
Saturday 29 December 2012, 16:05
Edinburgh Rugby 17 - 21 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield
 
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield

D. Teams
 
Round 1:
 
(i) Edinburgh

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tom Brown
10 Greig Tonks
09 Greig Laidlaw (c)
 
01 Wicus Blaauw
02 Ross Ford
03 Willem Nel
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Ollie Atkins
06 Cornell Du Preez
07 Roddy Grant
08 David Denton
 
16 Aleki Lutui
17 Alex Allan
18 Geoff Cross
19 Izak van der Westhuizen
20 Mike Coman
21 Grayson Hart
22 Tony Fenner
23 Sam Beard
 
(ii) Glasgow

15. Sean Maitland
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Stuart Hogg
12. Alex Dunbar
11. DTH van der Merwe
10. Duncan Weir
09. Chris Cusiter (c)
 
01. Ryan Grant
02. Pat MacArthur
03. Jon Welsh
04. Tim Swinson
05. Tom Ryder
06. Rob Harley
07. Tyrone Holmes
08. Ryan Wilson
 
16. Dougie Hall
17. Gordon Reid
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Josh Strauss
21. Chris Fusaro
22. Henry Pyrgos
23. Ruaridh Jackson
 
Round 2
 
(i) Glasgow
 
15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Finn Russell
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Ruaridh Jackson
09. Chris Cusiter

01. Ryan Grant
02. Dougie Hall
03. Jon Welsh
04. Jonny Gray
05. Al Kellock (Captain)
06. Rob Harley
07. Chris Fusaro
08. Josh Strauss

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Duncan Weir
23. Richie Vernon
 
(ii) Edinburgh

15 Cuthbert
14 Brown
13 Scott
12 Strauss
11 Visser
10 Bezuidenhout
09 Laidlaw (c)

08 Denton
07 Du Preez
06 Coman
05 van der Westhuizen
04 Gilchrist
03 Nel
02 Ford
01 Dickinson

16 Hilterbrand
17 Blaauw
18 Berghan
19 Toolis
20 Leonardi
21 Hart
22 Francis
23 Beard

[RDW]

Edinburgh team being announced today - bet you all can't wait!

Glasgow too...

[RDW]

Just noticed I've gone past the 8000 post mark - can't believe I let it slip by, I was expecting fanfares and dancing girls and everything!

Or as my girlfriend keeps telling me, it shows even more that I really need to get a life....

[tigertattie]

 
 there you go sir

[Captain_Sensible]

Glasgow Warriors team to play Edinburgh Rugby, RaboDirect PRO12, Scotstoun Stadium, Saturday 26 April (kick-off 7.05pm) – live on BBC ALBA:
15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Finn Russell
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Ruaridh Jackson
9. Chris Cusiter

1. Ryan Grant
2. Dougie Hall
3. Jon Welsh
4. Jonny Gray
5. Al Kellock (Captain)
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Josh Strauss

Substitutes

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Duncan Weir
23. Richie Vernon

[IanBru]

EDINBURGH RUGBY team v Glasgow:
15 Cuthbert
14 Brown
13 Scott
12 Strauss
11 Visser
10 Bezuidenhout
9 Laidlaw CAPTAIN

8 Denton
7 Du Preez
6 Coman
5 van der Westhuizen
4 Gilchrist
3 Nel
2 Ford
1 Dickinson

subs:
16 Hilterbrand
17 Blaauw
18 Berghan
19 Toolis
20 Leonardi
21 Hart
22 Francis
23 Beard

I thought the MFLs said they wouldn't be fielding a weakened team for this fixture?

Oh well, never mind.

[George Carlin]

Glasgow Warriors team to play Edinburgh Rugby, RaboDirect PRO12, Scotstoun Stadium, Saturday 26 April (kick-off 7.05pm) – live on BBC ALBA:
15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Finn Russell
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Ruaridh Jackson
9. Chris Cusiter

1. Ryan Grant
2. Dougie Hall
3. Jon Welsh
4. Jonny Gray
5. Al Kellock (Captain)
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Josh Strauss

Substitutes

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Duncan Weir
23. Richie Vernon

We're playing Kellock and Jackson. So Edinburgh can't say that they haven't been given every chance to get the win.

Can we assume that Du Preez and Nel are basically being held together by duct tape by now?

[RDW]

Very interesting to see Laidlaw back straight back in it - hopefully the rest has done him some good. He is a strong presence at Edinburgh so hopefully it will give them some backbone unlike the last few weeks.

Very strange to see Jackson and Kellock starting...

[RDW]

Also, Piers Francis on the bench??   

  

[George Carlin]

Very interesting to see Laidlaw back straight back in it - hopefully the rest has done him some good.  He is a strong presence at Edinburgh so hopefully it will give them some backbone unlike the last few weeks.

Very strange to see Jackson and Kellock starting...

Totally. Starting with Gray and Swinson, with Big Naka on the bench is much stronger, as is 10 Russell 12 Horne 13 Bennett. I assume Dunbar is injured?

[IanBru]

It's like a kind of testimonial match for some of these guys.

Jackson, Cusiter, Low, Laidlaw, Francis, and possibly Kellock!

[RDW]

Maybe Swinson is getting rested.

And big Al is good at these games - his snarling and pointing at rucks goes up another level against Edinburgh.

Our bench really is awful.

On the plus side, I'm glad Glasgow haven't rubbed salt into the wound by including Cross!

[Captain_Sensible]

So, all eight Glasgow replacements are internationalists. None of Edinburgh's are. Ouch.

Decent first XV from Edinburgh, might get messy when the subs come on.

[RDW]

It's a fairly unsubtle pack Edinburgh have gone for, but I just hope Solomons is a bit more imaginative and doesn't just go for the usual pick and go, one out pass tactics. It gets us nowhere, and it will be very ineffective given Harley, Strauss and Gray etc. will be battering back anything that runs at them.

[TJ]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm my optimismmeter has just swung back to " we're doomed"

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Maybe Swinson is getting rested.

And big Al is good at these games - his snarling and pointing at rucks goes up another level against Edinburgh.

Our bench really is awful.

On the plus side, I'm glad Glasgow haven't rubbed salt into the wound by including Cross!

This is true

[Weegie Wizard]

From Warriors website:

Not available due to injury: Mike Cusack (medical/illness), Alex Dunbar (wrist/thumb), Peter Horne (knee), Ed Kalman (back), Sean Lamont (knee), Tom Ryder (knees), Tim Swinson (illness) and DTH van der Merwe (shoulder)

That explains Dunbar, Swinson and Horne's absence. Hope Horne's knee just needs a rest rather than anything more serious. No mention of Hogg though

[RDW]

Hogg is on the naughty step.

Or off to Ulster.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

From Warriors website:

Not available due to injury: Mike Cusack (medical/illness), Alex Dunbar (wrist/thumb), Peter Horne (knee), Ed Kalman (back), Sean Lamont (knee), Tom Ryder (knees), Tim Swinson (illness) and DTH van der Merwe (shoulder)

That explains Dunbar, Swinson and Horne's absence. Hope Horne's knee just needs a rest rather than anything more serious. No mention of Hogg though

That is a worry, hopefully just the inevitable niggle

[tigertattie]

Lol. Told ya that we'd get Du Preez at 7

Nice one pappy.

I'm not too worried about the bench as Solomons ain't gonna use half those boys! I do feel for Du Preez and Nel. Both of those guys are gonna be blowing hard.  Has there ever been a match on TV where a players legs have actually fallen off them?

Strauss at 12 though! epic fail again. Especially with the pacey backline Glasgow have thrown out there

[Weegie Wizard]

Hogg is on the naughty step.

Or off to Ulster.

[RDW]

Hogg is on the naughty step.

Or off to Ulster.

  

[EWT Spoons]

Hope Horne is alright

Can’t say the Edinburgh team looks particularly exciting.  I’m not really sure what Strauss has done to justify the continued moving  of Scott (12) from the 12 slot.  

Strange Laidlaw has been brought back for this game.  Hopefully the rest has reinvigorated him.

The pack looks alright but as mentioned Nel and Du Preez must be exhausted by now.

The less said about the bench the better.

The prospect of Visser up against Maitland considering Maitland’s form recently and Visser’s questionable defence prior to getting injured (can’t imagine it’s made him any braver), is not a match up I’m looking forward to.

Just read this back and on the whole it’s very glass totally empty isn’t it.  Ah well, watching Edinburgh at the moment*, is pretty depressing mixed in with a very occasional highlight, so it’s getting harder and harder to be positive.   Next year will be a different story….hopefully.

*moment = last few years

[RDW]

There should be some decent match ups in this game:

Dickinson V Welsh
Ford V Hall
Gilchrist V Gray
Denton V Strauss   
Laidlaw V Cusiter
Visser vs a stiff breeze
Scott V Bennet

Murchie V Cuthbert might be a trial for the backup 15 slot in Scotland squad in the summer too.

[George Carlin]

The Edinburgh pack as a collective actually looks good.

But if the moisturized ones aren't close by the 50 minute mark, I do fear for them once Glasgow have emptied their bench - particularly the Fijian contingent coming on to play 7s flagball.

[BigGee]

A little odd about Hoggy though. I can see why Murchie plays, as he has been very good and does not deserve to be dropped but if Hogg is fit you would have thought he would be on the bench.

There may be nothing in it and if he has had a dodgy hamstring he probably has not done much running on top of the suspension and maybe is just not match fit. It is just this thing with Ulster is niggling away at me a bit. Hopefully we are all reading far to much into it.

Otherwise it is a pretty strong Glasgow team who should really have no excuses for at least getting the win and hopefully a five pointer as a bonuws. I would be happy with just the win though.

[Weegie Wizard]

I agree about the Edinburgh pack. Very strong starting 8.
I would be much more confident if we had Russell at 10 and either Horne or Dunbar fit but I think we'll be too strong in the last quarter.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

We've really got to stop shunting Scott out to 13! Although it does show Solomons is learning about Scottish rugby, its just a shame that what he's picking up on is our love of selecting players not in their best positions

[tigertattie]

Scott (12) needs to be playing back at 12 next season.  This Strauss fella playing there for Edinburgh just now is just poo.

Edinburgh really need to get a decent 13 on the books next year with mr De Luca going elsewhere!

[George Carlin]

Our brethren on the Ulster boards are adamant that Anscombe would never pollute his team with someone of Hogg's mediocrity (I am paraphrasing, you understand) so if they're not worried, then I'm not worried. I would like signs that he's back in training for the last two games though.

If we pick up 5 pointers in our next 2 games and are guaranteed 2nd place, would anyone else like to see a completely basket case team against Zebre just to give some guys game time? I would absolutely love to see:
1. Reid
2. MacArthur
3. Cross
4. Ryder
5. Nakarawa
6. Eddie
7. Holmes
8. Ashe

9. Matawalu
10. Russell
11. Isles
12. Horne
13. Niua
14. Lamont
15. Hogg

We'd either win by 50 points or lose by 50 points.

[Notch]

Its not that he's mediocre GC (although his form for club and country is very definitely mediocre I think he's just under performing and has the potential to be very, very good indeed). It that if you sign an NIQ player, he has to be significantly better than what you have already and it has to be in an area where you are weak.

Its not just that Hogg isn't necessarily a better player than Payne is at 15, its that he would take a valuable NIQ spot and a valuable chunk of the budget away from the areas where we actually need to sign players. Unless the IRFU are meddling to force us not to use Payne at 15 any more, we need to be spending that money on the forwards! Also NIQs are expected to be guys who are going to come in and strengthen the team immediately, not guys who have massive potential but are not currently realising it.

If Hogg was Irish I'd be very keen indeed but it's different for NIQ players.

[George Carlin]

If Connacht can get Craig Clarke and Leinster can poach Brad Thorne on a loan, Notch, then surely there are some big Saffers that you can get over here? Muller would surely recommend it as a tenure in the northern hemisphere. He's pretty much achieved semi-deity status, hasn't he? Besides, Ulster is a blue chip name in the game now.

[Notch]

We're meant to be signing Franco van der Merwe at the end of the Super Rugby season.

The rumour about Hogg is that he was the one pursuing a meeting with Ulster, not Ulster pursuing Hogg. Hogg wants to leave Glasgow. Thats what the dogs on the street are barking.

[cakeordeath]

I am going to say this now. I fancy Edinburgh for the win

[cakeordeath]

We're meant to be signing Franco van der Merwe at the end of the Super Rugby season.

The rumour about Hogg is that he was the one pursuing a meeting with Ulster, not Ulster pursuing Hogg. Hogg wants to leave Glasgow. Thats what the dogs on the street are barking.

Interesting, he does seem to be absent from the team sheet, and doesn't seem to be injured. Ulster would be a strange choice though. Unless he see's the proximity as an advantage.

Rumours and spy talk

[Notch]

He has family in Ulster, but there's no evidence that Ulster are actually interested.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

This "story" gets more bizarre the longer it runs.

According to one of the more "well informed" posters on the Glasgow forum, on Friday the journalists over from Ulster were all adamant that it was a done deal.

If it was Hogg who was pursing Ulster, why would the club agree to a meeting on a match day, where it would quickly come out that Hogg was there? Seems an open venue for a first date!

Not suggesting what you are saying is not correct, Notch. Just seems to me that there was a deal close to being made and maybe it has fallen through.

Whatever the situation is, one thing I think is clear is that Hogg is not a happy boy at Glasgow. Coming off the back of what, two maybe three good performances this year I would not have thought he was in the position to be acting the big man.

[Weegie Wizard]

If true, that would be very bad news for Glasgow. Not only is he one of our best players, it is a position that we don't have nearly as much depth as if Strauss, for example, were to leave.

[Notch]

This "story" gets more bizarre the longer it runs.

According to one of the more "well informed" posters on the Glasgow forum, on Friday the journalists over from Ulster were all adamant that it was a done deal.

If it was Hogg who was pursing Ulster, why would the club agree to a meeting on a match day, where it would quickly come out that Hogg was there?  Seems an open venue for a first date!

Not suggesting what you are saying is not correct, Notch.  Just seems to me that there was a deal close to being made and maybe it has fallen through.

Whatever the situation is, one thing I think is clear is that Hogg is not a happy boy at Glasgow. Coming off the back of what, two maybe three good performances this year I would not have thought he was in the position to be acting the big man.  

What I'm saying might very well be not correct, I have no idea. But the journalists in Ulster get their info from the same place we do, which is baseless rumours on the internet. So they have as much an idea as I do. Certainly there are a lot of people who think a deal for Hogg is all but done, but its still pure speculation. Anyway, the meeting wasn't on match day. This came out on Wednesday or Thursday last week. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a deal but we don't know.

However, it seems pretty clear that that Hogg wants out of Glasgow. I would rather we strengthened our pack first. I'd only really be happy with this deal with the proviso it meant we were keeping Cave and Payne as well. If we lose one of them and gain Hogg, I think I and a lot of other Ulster fans would be very disappointed.

My guess is Hogg will not be in Ulster colours next season. He might not be in Glasgow but I don't think he will be in Belfast either.

[RDW]

Genuine question - why does Hogg want out of Glasgow? They are a team on the verge of achieving success (soon hopefully), great club atmosphere, looked after well for International time and probably earning good money.

Has he just got too big for his boots? He was sensational leading up to the Lions tour and fully deserved a call up, but he's not hit those heights since.

[Notch]

I don't know, but the fact he's going around openly courting other clubs when he has time to run on his contract doesn't seem very professional and maybe he has a bit of an ego...

[RDW]

Is there any definitive proof that he was in that hotel or is it just a dodgy picture?

I would lose a lot of respect for Hogg if he left Glasgow just now, especially for a team like Ulster (which isn't a derogatory comment against Ulster by the way).

[BigGee]

This is all very bizzare and not a little worrying. Hoggy is a very good player who does have the potenital to get even better at both club and international level. He is still very young though and in all honesty has not really acheived anything in the game yet. I don't for a moment see him spending his whole career at Glasgow but at this stage to want to be bought out of a contract seems very odd indeed.

I really do hope that he has not got ahead of himself and is developing any prima donna tendancies. Many good young careers have not developed the way they should and have been left rather unfulfilled on that basis. The one of the orange welshman springs to mind!

I hope that this is all nonsense and the imagination of the media. There has been no other indication from anyone in the Warriors that he was unhappy there. At the end of the day the team is playing well and is going somewhere, you would have thought that he would want to be a part of that.

The PR people at Glasgow could do with putting this to bed if there really is nothing in it!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I don't know, but the factspeculation he's going around openly courting other clubs when he has time to run on his contract doesn't seem very professional and maybe he has a bit of an ego if any of it is in any way true...

Fixed that for you

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

This "story" gets more bizarre the longer it runs.

According to one of the more "well informed" posters on the Glasgow forum, on Friday the journalists over from Ulster were all adamant that it was a done deal.

If it was Hogg who was pursing Ulster, why would the club agree to a meeting on a match day, where it would quickly come out that Hogg was there?  Seems an open venue for a first date!

Not suggesting what you are saying is not correct, Notch.  Just seems to me that there was a deal close to being made and maybe it has fallen through.

Whatever the situation is, one thing I think is clear is that Hogg is not a happy boy at Glasgow. Coming off the back of what, two maybe three good performances this year I would not have thought he was in the position to be acting the big man.  

What I'm saying might very well be not correct, I have no idea. But the journalists in Ulster get their info from the same place we do, which is baseless rumours on the internet. So they have as much an idea as I do. Certainly there are a lot of people who think a deal for Hogg is all but done, but its still pure speculation. Anyway, the meeting wasn't on match day. This came out on Wednesday or Thursday last week. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a deal but we don't know.

However, it seems pretty clear that that Hogg wants out of Glasgow. I would rather we strengthened our pack first. I'd only really be happy with this deal with the proviso it meant we were keeping Cave and Payne as well. If we lose one of them and gain Hogg, I think I and a lot of other Ulster fans would be very disappointed.

My guess is Hogg will not be in Ulster colours next season. He might not be in Glasgow but I don't think he will be in Belfast either.

All fair points and apologies about the matchday mistake.

[Notch]

I don't know, but the factspeculation he's going around openly courting other clubs when he has time to run on his contract doesn't seem very professional and maybe he has a bit of an ego if any of it is in any way true...

Fixed that for you

Appreciate it

[Notch]

Is there any definitive proof that he was in that hotel or is it just a dodgy picture?

I would lose a lot of respect for Hogg if he left Glasgow just now, especially for a team like Ulster (which isn't a derogatory comment against Ulster by the way).

I dunno, Glasgow are on a level pegging or ahead of Ulster as far as standing in the Pro12 is concerned but when it comes to Europe our record is considerably better, and we're further on in terms of building a fan base, filling our stadium, having a cracking home atmosphere etc. It wouldn't quite be a sideways move for him, it would be moving up in the world- but not by a very large amount.

[BigGee]

From the Glasgow forum Jamie Borthwick, STV journalist, just tweeted that 'Townsend says no truth at all in rumour that Hogg moving to Ulster'

Hopefully that will put it to bed. The most likely explanation as to him not playing is that he is not match fit after a longish layoff and an injury!

[RDW]

Aye notch it wasn't a comment on which club is better, just can't see why he'd choose to leave a glasgow for Ulster.

I'd maybe understand if Toulouse were tapping him up!

[BigGee]

I am sure Hogg will depart Glasgow at some stage, probably in the not to distant future. There is no way we will be able to match what he might earn in France and they will pay a lot for a flair player like him. He would go then with my understanding and my blessing.

To have gone in the middle of a contract period however of his own choice, would have left a bad taste with all the Glasgow and Scotland fans. I don't imagine it would have gone down to well with his team mates either, who he would be playing with for Scotland. It would have been a very poor move for him and he would have been very badly advised to have done so.

It seems it was never happening anyway.

[RDW]

Am I right in thinking Rowan Shepard is his agent?

If it does turn out to be pure fabrication we'll not hold it against him!

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