1872 Cup Thread 2014: Glasgow vs Edinburgh

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :


 
It's that time again. The oldest club fixture in world rugby.
Glasgow looking for an unprecedented fifth successive win.
Bring it.
 

 
It's the the social club versus the golf club, the unwashed versus the exfoliators, the heroin users versus the social drinkers, the chips & cheese versus the salt & sauce, the ramraiders versus the online bank hackers, the knock-off Rolecks versus the original Pateks and the cardiac arrest versus the stress-related work sign-off for a fortnight.
 
A. The Fixtures
 
Round 1
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield Library
 
Referee: Neil Paterson (SRU, 57th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Bob Nevins (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Cole (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
Round 2
Saturday 26 April 2014, 19:05
Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun Stadium
 
Referee: Mathieu Raynal (FFR, 2nd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Graeme Marshall (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Douglas Hunter (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
B. Form - head to head
 
20 Played 20
11 Wins 8
8 Losses 11
1 Draws 1
37 Tries 34
22 Conversions 22
53 Penalties 55
11 Drop Goals 5
421 Points 394
26 Avg. Age 26
 
C. Form - last year & this
 
Friday 21 December 2012, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 23 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun
 
Saturday 29 December 2012, 16:05
Edinburgh Rugby 17 - 21 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield
 
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield

D. Teams
 
Round 1:
 
(i) Edinburgh

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tom Brown
10 Greig Tonks
09 Greig Laidlaw (c)
 
01 Wicus Blaauw
02 Ross Ford
03 Willem Nel
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Ollie Atkins
06 Cornell Du Preez
07 Roddy Grant
08 David Denton
 
16 Aleki Lutui
17 Alex Allan
18 Geoff Cross
19 Izak van der Westhuizen
20 Mike Coman
21 Grayson Hart
22 Tony Fenner
23 Sam Beard
 
(ii) Glasgow

15. Sean Maitland
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Stuart Hogg
12. Alex Dunbar
11. DTH van der Merwe
10. Duncan Weir
09. Chris Cusiter (c)
 
01. Ryan Grant
02. Pat MacArthur
03. Jon Welsh
04. Tim Swinson
05. Tom Ryder
06. Rob Harley
07. Tyrone Holmes
08. Ryan Wilson
 
16. Dougie Hall
17. Gordon Reid
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Josh Strauss
21. Chris Fusaro
22. Henry Pyrgos
23. Ruaridh Jackson
 
Round 2
 
(i) Glasgow
 
15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Finn Russell
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Ruaridh Jackson
09. Chris Cusiter

01. Ryan Grant
02. Dougie Hall
03. Jon Welsh
04. Jonny Gray
05. Al Kellock (Captain)
06. Rob Harley
07. Chris Fusaro
08. Josh Strauss

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Duncan Weir
23. Richie Vernon
 
(ii) Edinburgh

15 Cuthbert
14 Brown
13 Scott
12 Strauss
11 Visser
10 Bezuidenhout
09 Laidlaw (c)

08 Denton
07 Du Preez
06 Coman
05 van der Westhuizen
04 Gilchrist
03 Nel
02 Ford
01 Dickinson

16 Hilterbrand
17 Blaauw
18 Berghan
19 Toolis
20 Leonardi
21 Hart
22 Francis
23 Beard

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I think we all have to accept that in the modern professional business of rugby, players may be attracted as much by financial remuneration (amongst other things, ie chances of silverware, chances of international recognition, etc) as much as anything else - not a lot different to any other profession tbh

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Fair play, if someone offered me a similar job in my field but somewhere where the sun actually shines more than 3 times a year I'd be out of here faster than Carlin Isles

^ that was a lie, possibly faster than Jack Cuthbert, at a push

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Fair play, if someone offered me a similar job in my field but somewhere where the sun actually shines more than 3 times a year I'd be out of here faster than Carlin Isles

^ that was a lie, possibly faster than Jack Cuthbert, at a push

I think that specifically precludes Belshaft then!

[VinceWLB]

If he really thinks he is too big for Glasgow, i for one wouldn't mind seeing the back of him, no one is bigger than the club.
His form earlier this season was very poor.

[Totalflanker]

Social media at its subtle best in trying to dispelled the rumours - any reason for the player selected to hold the ball? A little strange given the subject matter and the actual team selection for the game......

https://mobile.twitter.com/GlasgowWarriors/status/459317497104068608/photo/1

[RDW]

Right time for a V2 forum quiz to move on from this Hogg malarkey - can anyone name every club featured in that photo? Without cheating and looking at the player profiles on the Glasgow website!

Virtual   for whoever does the best!

[George Carlin]

Fair play, if someone offered me a similar job in my field but somewhere where the sun actually shines more than 3 times a year I'd be out of here faster than Carlin Isles

^ that was a lie, possibly faster than Jack Cuthbert, at a push

Well, that's certainly what happened to me.   

Rains 5 days a year here, if you're interested.
Although to be fair, in the summer it can reach 50 degrees, the melting point for most people from Ayrshire.

[Captain_Sensible]

Social media at its subtle best in trying to dispelled the rumours - any reason for the player selected to hold the ball? A little strange given the subject matter and the actual team selection for the game......

https://mobile.twitter.com/GlasgowWarriors/status/459317497104068608/photo/1

It's scary that Jonny Gray is about twice as wide as every other player in that photo. What a tank.

[jimbopip]

Fair play, if someone offered me a similar job in my field but somewhere where the sun actually shines more than 3 times a year I'd be out of here faster than Carlin Isles

^ that was a lie, possibly faster than Jack Cuthbert, at a push

Well, that's certainly what happened to me.   

Rains 5 days a year here, if you're interested.
Although to be fair, in the summer it can reach 50 15 degrees which is the melting point of the average denizen of Ayrshire. Although mention of religion tends be the true melting point for most people from Ayrshire.

There fixed that for you , Georgie.

[jimbopip]

Actually, didn't really fix it more merged two punchlines and totally fecced it.
Hooever, Big Al and Rob Harley starting and the plucked eyebrows brigade have picked a pack-reliant team  

[George Carlin]

Actually, didn't really fix it more merged two punchlines and totally fecced it.
Hooever, Big Al and Rob Harley starting and the plucked eyebrows brigade have picked a pack-reliant team  

  

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Right time for a V2 forum quiz to move on from this Hogg malarkey - can anyone name every club featured in that photo? Without cheating and looking at the player profiles on the Glasgow website!

Virtual   for whoever does the best!

Robert Gordon's Coll for Cus and Jacko, I think, or was it Aberdeen GS? Gray Jnr at Meatball at Cambuslang, plus from Cumnock

[RDW]

Think it is Aberdeen grammar

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Hawick or Hawick YM for Hoggy

[George Carlin]

Gordy Reid needs to learn that white is not the kindest colour.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Fat-ist, GC

[George Carlin]

Fat-ist, GC

No. I think Gordy is the fattest*.

*Copyright - Jimmy Carr.

[GLove39]

Think it is Aberdeen grammar

 
No they're Gordon's boys not AGS  

[RDW]

My mistake!

Any others?

Is Jedi East kilbride or have I just mortally offended the big bastard?   

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

My mistake!

Any others?

Is Jedi East kilbride or have I just mortally offended the big bastard?   

GHA!

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

The Jedi is a Hutchie Boy !

[Guest]

Sorry I have to bring it back to Hogg to quickly mention - wonder if he was seeking a contract at 10? He mentioned he'd be happy playing 10 himself; wonder if part of his wanting to move is that he doesn't want to be considered at 15.

I am beginning to worry a little about him ... he needs the Seans at glasgow to sit him down for a few pints if you ask me; seeing both of them in interviews before I think they've got their heads screwed on right and could show him the way of consistent, professional rugby playing.

[123456789]

By all accounts Townsend has said Hogg has 14 months left on his contract and will not be leaving, although that doesn't sound too promising long term. I understand the viewpoint that we want as many players as possible to play professional rugby and leaving would free up space but ultimately we need to keep as many of our best players into Scotland if we want Glasgow and Edinburgh to become marketable and competitive then they simply have to keep the best talent. With all due respect for Peter Murchie (a quality rugby player who does a very good job) very few children will beg their parents to take them to come to see him play, Hogg on the other hand is one of the few Scottish players who could claim that status. Richie Gray was another and it is safe to say that his moves have not worked out perfectly; I don't think any of us could have envisaged a situation in which he wasn't a certainty for Scotland two years ago (even if we knew that the squad the squad would be picked by the baffoon) and it is safe to say that Gray would be the first name on the team sheet for Scotland had he stayed, and imagine the boost that would have given Glasgow. Without appearing shallow the marketing opportunities with both the brothers would be infinite, and with both of them available to play as well. In fact I can think of very few situations in which our very best players have actually improved as a result of moving on.

If Hogg has an attitude problem then he needs to be sat down by the senior players as soon as possible and read the riot act; he needs to learn that he is a figurehead for Scottish rugby and the youngest Lion on the last tour, our most talented back in a generation (although Matt Scott must surely be pushing him close) and needs to act appropriately. Furthermore he let his country down, and let many Scottish team mates at Glasgow down too, leaving would surely accentuate this. Unless of course he has faced a backlash which I believe is highly unlikely. If his attitude is a problem with a special player like Hogg everything must be done to keep him without giving him special treatment, I can't think of anything worse than letting him go to a foreign club with no incentives to play him and no necessity to make sure he is ready for his country. If he has been contacting other clubs I think the SRU need to act accordingly and remind him that he is contracted to them and I don't think his place on the summer tour should be guaranteed, we have other full-backs and should be able to comfortably beat three of the four teams with Tonks, Brown, Murchie or Maitland at full-back, additionally I think a few games at the start of next season in the club game should do the trick. We need to keep players like him for the future of professional rugby but he also cannot be allowed to forget that he let his country down and therefore should be the last person to walk all over Glasgow and the SRU and get away with it.

[IanBru]

Considering that it has now been officially denied by Townsend, what evidence do we have that Hogg was even in any kind of meeting? A grainy photograph? Is that really enough evidence to suggest that Hogg has an attitude problem?

Isn't it about time that we file this one in the same rusted filing cabinet as the Lindbergh baby, the Giancana-Kennedy connection, and the prospect of Megan Fox responding to my letters?

[123456789]

I had a wee look on the Ulster forum and they seem to be claiming that Hogg has not only been flirting with them, Munster, and god knows who else. I think it's completely implausible that any player with an advisor (and a contract) would behave as openly as some are suggesting he has however if (and I accept it is a big if) he has a mahoosive attitude problem.

Although I thought there was some truth in the Giancana-Kennedy connection   

[IanBru]

Although I thought there was some truth in the Giancana-Kennedy connection   

So... Hoover got to you too?

"We're through the looking glass here people."

[George Carlin]

Considering that it has now been officially denied by Townsend, what evidence do we have that Hogg was even in any kind of meeting? A grainy photograph? Is that really enough evidence to suggest that Hogg has an attitude problem?

Isn't it about time that we file this one in the same rusted filing cabinet as the Lindbergh baby, the Giancana-Kennedy connection, and the prospect of Megan Fox responding to my letters?

I thought that Megan's lawyers had got back to you on her behalf? Remember, at least 100 feet away at all times.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Anyone any idea where the 'Hogg has an attitude problem' line came from? I can't find any substance whatsoever to back it up, its simply become a perpetuated myth - v disappointing

[BigGee]

I bet Hoggy will be back in the side next week against Treviso and will probably play out the rest of the season. I think he is not playing this week as he is probably not fit enough and it would not have been fair to drop Murchie who has been playing very well.

This should be put to bed now. As ASBO says there is nothing whatsoever in fact, or even in any kind of substaniated rumour that he has an attitude problem. He has so far in his career (other than a little blip against the Welsh) conducted himself perfectly professionally and he certainly observed the correct tone of humility after that incident.

Lets not go after one of our own players for no obvious reason. That might give him food for thought as to the grass being greener elsewhere!

[tigertattie]

Considering that it has now been officially denied by Townsend, what evidence do we have that Hogg was even in any kind of meeting? A grainy photograph? Is that really enough evidence to suggest that Hogg has an attitude problem?

Isn't it about time that we file this one in the same rusted filing cabinet as the Lindbergh baby, the Giancana-Kennedy connection, and the prospect of Megan Fox responding to my letters?

Meg replies to mine.  She even includes a sexy photo! Jealous much?

[Manky-Flanker]

As ASBO says there is nothing whatsoever in fact, or even in any kind of substaniated rumour that he has an attitude problem. He has so far in his career (other than a little blip against the Welsh) conducted himself perfectly professionally and he certainly observed the correct tone of humility after that incident.

The only thing I can recall was his old habit of rolling the ball towards the last tackler after scoring a try. He did it to Munster and against England Saxons. However I thought that particular unsporting habit had been coached out of him a while ago. Since then there's really been nothing to suggest he has an attitude issue, at least on the field.

[RDW]

Since the Lions tour I have noticed him doing wee niggly things on the pitch - pushing, backchat, sly digs etc. Prime example being the last 1872 leg where he pushed Tom Brown over the advertising boards!

I don't know about an attitude problem, but he needs to get these kind of things out of his game. You can't go around strutting like you're a top dog if your form doesn't back it up.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Considering that it has now been officially denied by Townsend, what evidence do we have that Hogg was even in any kind of meeting? A grainy photograph? Is that really enough evidence to suggest that Hogg has an attitude problem?

Isn't it about time that we file this one in the same rusted filing cabinet as the Lindbergh baby, the Giancana-Kennedy connection, and the prospect of Megan Fox responding to my letters?

Meg replies to mine.  She even includes a sexy photo! Jealous much?

Aye, tattie, we reply to them together as she's lying in bed next to me - and btw, its a bod double in the photos

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Since the Lions tour I have noticed him doing wee niggly things on the pitch - pushing, backchat, sly digs etc. PrimeOnly example being the last 1872 leg where he pushed Tom Brown over the advertising boards!

I don't know about an attitude problem, but he needs to get these kind of things out of his game.  You can't go around strutting like you're a top dog if your form doesn't back it up.

Hmmm, fixed that for you - a very MFL recollection of events too!

[RDW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1IeCtIbag

Tom Brown Tackles him into touch and hold on to him a bit longer than needed but let's go - Hogg takes exception to this, grabs him and they get in a bit of a wrestling match and end up over the advertising boards. No need for Hogg to react like that.  Brown shouldn't have even been carded!

And it is a very one eyed view to try to claim that Hogg hasn't been doing some petty niggly things on the pitch this season.

[RDW]

If Hogg hadn't reacted like that no one would have even noticed the incident, and both players would have stayed on the pitch.

I am a huge admirer of Hogg's abilities but I have definitely noticed this creeping into him game. Maybe time with Mike Phillips has changed him!

[MacKnocked-on]

At least he got rid of the footballer's haircut he was sporting last season

[jimbopip]

If Hogg hadn't reacted like that no one would have even noticed the incident, and both players would have stayed on the pitch.

I am a huge admirer of Hogg's abilities but I have definitely noticed this creeping into him game.  Maybe time with Mike Phillips has changed him!

Time with Mike Bigmac Phillips would certainly change most sentient beings. When did Duffy last make decent album?

[RDW]

 

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1IeCtIbag

Tom Brown Tackles him into touch and hold on to him a bit longer than needed but let's go - Hogg takes exception to this, grabs him and they get in a bit of a wrestling match and end up over the advertising boards. No need for Hogg to react like that.  Brown shouldn't have even been carded!

And it is a very one eyed view to try to claim that Hogg hasn't been doing some petty niggly things on the pitch this season.

So let's consider the respective offences:

Brown holds on to Hogg post tackle to make his point
Hogg grabs Brown to register his displeasure
Both Brown and Hogg contrive to handbag each other over the hoardings

Your conclusion: "No need for Hogg to react like that"

An alternative conclusion: "No need for Brown to have instigated that"

Case dismissed

[RDW]

So is holding onto someone slightly longer than required in touch a serious offence now? It happens all the time when people are tackled into touch.

Brown let go and Hogg came haring back in to start a scrap. Yes if Brown hadn't held onto him in touch it wouldn't have happened, but if Hogg feels the need to start a fight with someone whenever someone holds onto him too long then he has got a problem!

[IanBru]

if Hogg feels the need to start a fight with someone whenever someone holds onto him too long then he has got a problem!

I have the same problem.

That's why I had to break up with Rihanna.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

[GLove39]

if Hogg feels the need to start a fight with someone whenever someone holds onto him too long then he has got a problem!

I have the same problem.

That's why I had to break up with Rihanna.

The Northampton player?

[Weegie Wizard]

I don't think there was anything in that incident and neither players should have been carded.
It is on a par with Tonks dragging maitland away after the Edinburgh try and nobody is complaining about that.
Just looks more dramatic as they both fell over at the end

[IanBru]

if Hogg feels the need to start a fight with someone whenever someone holds onto him too long then he has got a problem!

I have the same problem.

That's why I had to break up with Rihanna.

The Northampton player?

  
Yes, the very one. 

[Guest]

if Hogg feels the need to start a fight with someone whenever someone holds onto him too long then he has got a problem!

I have the same problem.

That's why I had to break up with Rihanna.

That's funny I can handle that kind of hanky panky with her in the bedroom just fine.

[Guest]

RE: Brown and Hogg and yes i realise I basically started everyone talking about Hogg again   but to me it looks like Brown was more at fault there than Hogg - there must have been something earlier in the match too though because it took all of 2 seconds to go from tackle to wrestle; usually it's a little longer, at least 4 or 5!

Personally when someone does that to me in a match I just ignore it - the ref isn't picking up on it so I'll do it right back later for a little longer. Funnily enough they tend to stop?

[tigertattie]

Hogg's problem, like it or not, is that he is a high profile player.  Because he burst onto the scene he gets a lot of media attention. I would suggest that Hogg has no more "daft moments" than many other players, but he is spotted more often.

It does mean that Hogg needs to be doubley careful or he could end up with a Mike Phillips, or even an Andy Powell type tag hanging over him

[Tattie Scones RRN]

Deary me

A bit of afters in a local derby? Whatever next?

It's about time a Scottish player had a bit of agression in them. We've had too many pansies over the last few years.

Nice to see a bit of passion for a change (not OTT by the way)

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