Ulster v Munster

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No one making a new thread so it falls to a Ladyboy to keep yis honest

the IT on Tuesday wrote:Penney said Conor Murray and Simon Zebo would return to the fray towards the end of next week and were not yet ruled out of the upcoming Heineken Cup tie with Gloucester.

Flanker Sean Dougall and centre James Downey (groin) will also miss this week’s game but should be fine for the Gloucester trip.

Donnacha Ryan will not make that clash and is unlikely to be fit for the final Heineken Cup clash with Edinburgh, but Penney said the lock would be available for the Six Nations.

profitius wrote:Munster team vs Ulster named. Its weaker than I thought it would be. No JJ, Cronin, Downey, Earls or Donn Ryan.  


Munster: Felix Jones; Andrew Conway, Casey Laulala, Ivan Dineen, Ronan O'Mahony; Ian Keatley, Cathal Sheridan; Dave Kilcoyne, Damien Varley, Stephen Archer; Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell; Peter O'Mahony Capt., Tommy O'Donnell, James Coughlan.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, John Ryan, BJ Botha, Dave Foley, CJ Stander, Duncan Williams, Johnny Holland, Johne Murphy.


Murray is back in training and Zebo must be nearing a return also.

the IT today wrote:There is some optimism in Ulster as the province is expected to announce a three-month contract for Stephen Ferris, which would give the popular Ravenhill figure a realistic chance to prove his fitness.

The highly-regarded international has been unavailable due to injury since November 2012 but has been making progress on his ankle injury since an operation in the summer. Ulster also expect that their captain, Johann Muller, Irish international backrow Chris Henry, John Afoa and Nick Williams will be all set to face Munster in a sold-out Ravenhill on Friday. It is also expected that forward Iain Henderson will return.

Notch wrote:Ulster XV and replacements to face Munster, RaboDirect PRO12, Ravenhill, Friday 2nd January (kick off 19:05);

(15-9): J Payne, A Trimble, D Cave, L Marshall, C Gilroy, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): T Court, R Herring, J Afoa, I Henderson, D Tuohy, R Diack (Captain), C Henry, R Wilson; (16-23): N Annett, C Black, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, N Williams, S Doyle, P Marshall, M Allen.

First reaction- TERRIBLE news Muller suffered an injury in training this week. Big blow- hope he is there for Montpellier. Extra back row forward on the bench to cover for the fact Henry and Henderson are on their first games back.

Hanrahan isn't involved at all for Munster, not gutted about that.

littlejohn wrote:POC outplayed by Touhy today - showed more aggression and power

Yeah Touhy dominated the lineout but O'Connell was Munster's best player I thought....

How did Pienaar beat Payne to motm??

Pienaar got man of the match? i thought he was pretty poor at times thought Payne would have deserved it more

littlejohn wrote:

Golden wrote:Jones was anonymous again. Long gone are the days when he was pushing Kearney for the irish jersey

Dont think he was given much of a chance - I still see him as a decent alternative to Earls long-term - not a full back but wing/centre

Has he ever played centre?

He's a fullback for me. Just not the same fullback as before his many many injuries

Well done Ulster, Alain Keatley and Ian Rolland were outstanding for you.

rodders wrote:

littlejohn wrote:POC outplayed by Touhy today - showed more aggression and power

Yeah Touhy dominated the lineout but O'Connell was Munster's best player I thought....

How did Pienaar beat Payne to motm??

Tuohy better than POC, i can't stop laughing..

Rolland was motm...by a mile

Golden wrote:

littlejohn wrote:

Golden wrote:Jones was anonymous again. Long gone are the days when he was pushing Kearney for the irish jersey

Dont think he was given much of a chance - I still see him as a decent alternative to Earls long-term - not a full back but wing/centre

Has he ever played centre?

He's a fullback for me. Just not the same fullback as before his many many injuries

Not in recent years but I see his jinking ability is still there just no space for him to exploit - maybe he's lost half a yard of pace though - hopefully he'll get it back

ME-109 wrote:Well done Ulster, Alain Keatley and Ian Rolland were outstanding for you.

Yikes you'd swear this was a welsh derby with the amount of stick Rolland's getting.   

Why has Diack got a spider web on his head?

ME-109 wrote:

rodders wrote:

littlejohn wrote:POC outplayed by Touhy today - showed more aggression and power

Yeah Touhy dominated the lineout but O'Connell was Munster's best player I thought....

How did Pienaar beat Payne to motm??

Tuohy better than POC, i can't stop laughing..

Rolland was motm...by a mile

I'm a neutral in this and saw Touhy smashing players in rucks and running over players a couple times with ball in hand - looks very strong to me - didn't really see how he did in lineout - so why so funny?

If Diack could run as quick as he talked he'd be a hell of a winger

rodders wrote:

littlejohn wrote:POC outplayed by Touhy today - showed more aggression and power

Yeah Touhy dominated the lineout but O'Connell was Munster's best player I thought....

How did Pienaar beat Payne to motm??

Ah you will stop thats just silly! Poc was immense today and all Munster tries came from line outs / maul

Just hysterical littlejohn

Golden wrote:Yikes you'd swear this was a welsh derby with the amount of stick Rolland's getting.   

The difference is, nobody is blaming the referee for the loss.

He was pretty awful though, he really did not have a hold on the game at all in any aspect of play.

Happy to have the win but honestly, we can't afford to let so many opportunities slip. We butchered a lot of chances that better teams would have taken. Trimble passing the ball shockingly early to Marshall, Jackson not passing, etc. Just silly things.

Another thing that is bothering me about Ulster though is our support play at the breakdown. We are horrendously bad at securing possession, we are turned over far too often or give away penalties. For a breakdown specialist, why are we so bad at this area of the game? I thought the Munster pack thoroughly dismantled us in the pack, Tuohy (my MOTM) and Henry aside.

Look if we can agree that Touhy is just a plastic Paddy then we can argue O'Connell was the best genuine Irish lock on show.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Golden wrote:Yikes you'd swear this was a welsh derby with the amount of stick Rolland's getting.   

The difference is, nobody is blaming the referee for the loss.

He was pretty awful though, he really did not have a hold on the game at all in any aspect of play.

Happy to have the win but honestly, we can't afford to let so many opportunities slip.  We butchered a lot of chances that better teams would have taken.  Trimble passing the ball shockingly early to Marshall, Jackson not passing, etc.  Just silly things.

Another thing that is bothering me about Ulster though is our support play at the breakdown.  We are horrendously bad at securing possession, we are turned over far too often or give away penalties.  For a breakdown specialist, why are we so bad at this area of the game?  I thought the Munster pack thoroughly dismantled us in the pack, Tuohy (my MOTM) and Henry aside.

He would have been blamed if that Munster try was given

rodders wrote:Look if we can agree that Touhy is just a plastic Paddy then we can argue O'Connell was the best genuine Irish lock on show.

Same applies to Payne then vs Jones

littlejohn wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

rodders wrote:

littlejohn wrote:POC outplayed by Touhy today - showed more aggression and power

Yeah Touhy dominated the lineout but O'Connell was Munster's best player I thought....

How did Pienaar beat Payne to motm??

Tuohy better than POC, i can't stop laughing..

Rolland was motm...by a mile

I'm a neutral in this and saw Touhy smashing players in rucks and running over players a couple times with ball in hand - looks very strong to me - didn't really see how he did in lineout - so why so funny?

You're right little john, don't worry about a few of our more sentimental rugby fans who can't face the facts.

Tuohy was everywhere and had a fantastic game. My choice for MOTM.

littlejohn wrote:

rodders wrote:Look if we can agree that Touhy is just a plastic Paddy then we can argue O'Connell was the best genuine Irish lock on show.

Same applies to Payne then vs Jones

I didn't even realise Jones was playing ...   

Golden wrote:
He would have been blamed if that Munster try was given

What gives you that impression?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

littlejohn wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

rodders wrote:

littlejohn wrote:POC outplayed by Touhy today - showed more aggression and power

Yeah Touhy dominated the lineout but O'Connell was Munster's best player I thought....

How did Pienaar beat Payne to motm??

Tuohy better than POC, i can't stop laughing..

Rolland was motm...by a mile

I'm a neutral in this and saw Touhy smashing players in rucks and running over players a couple times with ball in hand - looks very strong to me - didn't really see how he did in lineout - so why so funny?

You're right little john, don't worry about a few of our more sentimental rugby fans who can't face the facts.

Tuohy was everywhere and had a fantastic game.  My choice for MOTM.

Mine too - I'm struggling to see why people/Musterites think he wasn't effective today - a right nuisance at the breakdowns

Seriously though, always delighted to beat the Munstermen in any fashion but we'll need a massive improvement against Montpellier and Leicester because that wasn't great from either side. I'm pretty worried about our form to be honest.

Crowd came up with a massive roar when Tuohy smashed into O'Connell just outside the Ulster 22, O'Connell completed his tackle in fairness so its not as those he was exposed.  But Tuohy had a massive game in every area.

Why did Rolland go for scrum when Munster 5 metres over the line? Ulster players dragging from back and both sides? At least 2 penos

BlueMuff wrote:Why did Rolland go for scrum when Munster 5 metres over the line? Ulster players dragging from back and both sides? At least 2 penos

If you ignore the fact that the lineout which led to it was so not straight that it went straight down the Munster line and the fact that Dudley Phillips (who didn't call the not straight) then give a very iffy call against Tuohy for taking out the Munster jumper.  Munster should never have been in a position to be awarded a scrum or a try.

There was a gladiatorial atmosphere tonight at Ravenhill. The crowd demanded blood. Munster refused to be intimidated. That is what interpros should be like.

Alain Rolland- unbelievable performance. Seemed determined to hand it to Munster. Munster fans are claiming the reverse... in the heat of battle I can't understand that at all but maybe I might see their point if I watch it again with a cool head. The officials were very poor tonight. Taking around 36 minutes to decide on that first TMO decision set to tone. Luckily we managed to dog it out.

GOD, I love beating Munster. I love it.

Notch wrote:There was a gladiatorial atmosphere tonight at Ravenhill. The crowd demanded blood. Munster refused to be intimidated. That is what interpros should be like.

Alain Rolland- unbelievable performance. Seemed determined to hand it to Munster. Luckily we managed to dog it out.

GOD, I love beating Munster. I love it.

How exactly? He was god awful but god awful for both teams. He seemed to be really off the pace and lost control of the breakdown.

do you like beating Munster Notch? it seems like you like beating Munster, just the subtle signs I can pick up on through close observation lol

Artful_Dodger wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Why did Rolland go for scrum when Munster 5 metres over the line? Ulster players dragging from back and both sides? At least 2 penos

If you ignore the fact that the lineout which led to it was so not straight that it went straight down the Munster line and the fact that Dudley Phillips (who didn't call the not straight) then give a very iffy call against Tuohy for taking out the Munster jumper.  Munster should never have been in a position to be awarded a scrum or a try.

What? None of this makes sense! Ulster players blatantly at the back of the maul pulling players down and coming from the side it was a complete mess from ulster perspective. There was at least 2 clear penos

Nachos Jones wrote:
How exactly? He was god awful but god awful for both teams. He seemed to be really off the pace and lost control of the breakdown.

I guess I just take notice of all the awful decisions he gave against us without really questioning any poor decisions he gave against Munster, and then the Munster fans are the exact opposite.

BlueMuff wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Why did Rolland go for scrum when Munster 5 metres over the line? Ulster players dragging from back and both sides? At least 2 penos

If you ignore the fact that the lineout which led to it was so not straight that it went straight down the Munster line and the fact that Dudley Phillips (who didn't call the not straight) then give a very iffy call against Tuohy for taking out the Munster jumper.  Munster should never have been in a position to be awarded a scrum or a try.

What? None of this makes sense! Ulster players blatantly at the back of the maul pulling players down and coming from the side it was a complete mess from ulster perspective. There was at least 2 clear penos

Aye, but if the rule where you have to throw the ball in straight is enforced it never gets to that.

BlueMuff wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Why did Rolland go for scrum when Munster 5 metres over the line? Ulster players dragging from back and both sides? At least 2 penos

If you ignore the fact that the lineout which led to it was so not straight that it went straight down the Munster line and the fact that Dudley Phillips (who didn't call the not straight) then give a very iffy call against Tuohy for taking out the Munster jumper.  Munster should never have been in a position to be awarded a scrum or a try.

What? None of this makes sense! Ulster players blatantly at the back of the maul pulling players down and coming from the side it was a complete mess from ulster perspective. There was at least 2 clear penos

I don't see what you don't understand - The lineout which led to that maul which went over the line came from a penalty at the previous lineout awarded by Dudley Phillips who completely ignored the throw straight down the Munster line and awarded a very dodgey penalty against Tuohy.

Notch wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:
How exactly? He was god awful but god awful for both teams. He seemed to be really off the pace and lost control of the breakdown.

I guess I just take notice of all the awful decisions he gave against us without really questioning any poor decisions he gave against Munster, and then the Munster fans are the exact opposite.

Fair enough, I am a Munster fan but he really was terrible. Never liked the way he ref's games and never will. Both Munster and Ulster fans will complain about him today.

Congrats on the win, it was deserved.

Thanks. It was a good game, two good teams going hammer and tongs.

rodders wrote:

littlejohn wrote:

rodders wrote:Look if we can agree that Touhy is just a plastic Paddy then we can argue O'Connell was the best genuine Irish lock on show.

Same applies to Payne then vs Jones

I didn't even realise Jones was playing ...   

You missed his great tackle on Jared Payne then who will know all about it tomorrow   

Notch wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Why did Rolland go for scrum when Munster 5 metres over the line? Ulster players dragging from back and both sides? At least 2 penos

If you ignore the fact that the lineout which led to it was so not straight that it went straight down the Munster line and the fact that Dudley Phillips (who didn't call the not straight) then give a very iffy call against Tuohy for taking out the Munster jumper.  Munster should never have been in a position to be awarded a scrum or a try.

What? None of this makes sense! Ulster players blatantly at the back of the maul pulling players down and coming from the side it was a complete mess from ulster perspective. There was at least 2 clear penos

Aye, but if the rule where you have to throw the ball in straight is enforced it never gets to that.

He wasn't interested in crocked throws into the scrum either. One very obvious throw into the second row from Pienaar.

For those that didn't see it or those who wants to see it again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVU7VS93uGE&feature=youtu.be

He'll be doing this for Ireland next season.

Payne that is by the way.

A poor game caused by a very poor refereeing performance. Ulster could and should have had a bonus point win if the officials had any bottle - penalising/carding players for obstruction. OTOH Munster should at least have has two bonus points, because the penalty against POM was ridiculous, and the third maul looked like a penalty as well. POC'S yellow was ridiculous not because Munster didn't deserve it but because it was for dissent! Given Rolland's performance surely he might expect some negative feedback from the pitch.

Despite Keatley having a shocker Munster were still in this game until the end and that is a great testament to why the stag province are topping the table.

Ulster will need Muller back for their HEC games or it could be another year of disappointment.

Notch wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:
How exactly? He was god awful but god awful for both teams. He seemed to be really off the pace and lost control of the breakdown.

I guess I just take notice of all the awful decisions he gave against us without really questioning any poor decisions he gave against Munster, and then the Munster fans are the exact opposite.

There were 3 decisions that just looked biased to me against Munster.

1. The decision not to award the penalty try without even going to the TMO bearing in mind that most the Ulster team were offside anyway.
2. The POM penalty (he asked to see a replay and said he was going to bin the Munster player who had hands in the ruck). When he saw the replay he must have realised that POM's turnover was perfectly legit he decided not to bin him but still gave the penalty.
3. Sending POC to the bin for the last 2 minutes was just grandstanding.

There were lots of other stuff that wasn't as pivotal to the result on both sides, but the last 10 minutes was like he was afraid he was going to be lynched by the crowd if Ulster didn't get the win.

I think Munster's second half performance deserved a losing bonus point at least.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Why did Rolland go for scrum when Munster 5 metres over the line? Ulster players dragging from back and both sides? At least 2 penos

If you ignore the fact that the lineout which led to it was so not straight that it went straight down the Munster line and the fact that Dudley Phillips (who didn't call the not straight) then give a very iffy call against Tuohy for taking out the Munster jumper.  Munster should never have been in a position to be awarded a scrum or a try.

What? None of this makes sense! Ulster players blatantly at the back of the maul pulling players down and coming from the side it was a complete mess from ulster perspective. There was at least 2 clear penos

Aye, but if the rule where you have to throw the ball in straight is enforced it never gets to that.

He wasn't interested in crocked throws into the scrum either. One very obvious throw into the second row from Pienaar.

Aye, and plenty from the Munster 9s too! It was a bad day at the office in nearly every facet.

I would have said that O'Connell got away with far too much in the game in terms of constantly being in the referees ear... he wasn't the Captain. He probably should have been, if you didn't know he wasn't you would have assumed he was, but he can't be in the referees ear if he isn't the Captain.

I was quite incensed about it at the game only to realise that he did give warnings out throughout the game and when those warnings weren't heeded he went to his pocket. It took a hell of a long time for him to go to his pocket mind you. Could have given a few Munster players yellow before that.

I'd just like to point out that a player being on his feet does NOT entitle him to play the ball in a ruck. It doesn't matter if he can see the ball. It doesn't matter if he can reach the ball. It doesn't matter if he is on his feet. If he isn't the first arriving player then he cannot play it. Simple.

I can understand fans from both sides saying Rolland was biased against them. It was a hard fought contest - well done Ulster on the win. However, I watched on BBC NI and I must admit the commentators there do tend to get up my left nostril. They seem to know only the Ulster players, often miscalling the players from the other side (e.g. called TOD James Coughlan on one occasion). The reason I am pointing this out is that in the second half they were bemoaning the number of penalties which Ulster were giving away and saying that Rolland would have to go for a card AGAINST Ulster ...

Well the crowd were in Rolland's ear, so what would you expect POC to do.

You saw how he treated POM over the non-penalty. He wouldn't even speak to him.

JmD wrote:I'd just like to point out that a player being on his feet does NOT entitle him to play the ball in a ruck. It doesn't matter if he can see the ball. It doesn't matter if he can reach the ball. It doesn't matter if he is on his feet. If he isn't the first arriving player then he cannot play it. Simple.

According to Alan Quinlan (with Pope in agreement) it wasn't a ruck.

Rolland had called ruck so POM was wrong and should have been binned in Alainworld, but in truth it was never a ruck - same as before when Marshall was pinged for being on his feet competing for the ball that had never got to ground...

Sin é wrote:Well the crowd were in Rolland's ear, so what would you expect POC to do.

The same as the other 27 players on the field who aren't Captain of their side.

Sin é wrote:

JmD wrote:I'd just like to point out that a player being on his feet does NOT entitle him to play the ball in a ruck. It doesn't matter if he can see the ball. It doesn't matter if he can reach the ball. It doesn't matter if he is on his feet. If he isn't the first arriving player then he cannot play it. Simple.

According to Alan Quinlan (with Pope in agreement) it wasn't a ruck.

I didn't think it was a ruck either, but Rolland called it as one early. He gave POM three warnings to get his hands off the ball and he still played it. Just another example of POM's utter lack of awareness on the pitch. Whether it was actually a ruck or not POM should have have the wit to release after being warned. Incompetent refereeing and incompetence on the pitch from POM.

The Great Aukster wrote:Rolland had called ruck so POM was wrong and should have been binned in Alainworld, but in truth it was never a ruck - same as before when Marshall was pinged for being on his feet competing for the ball that had never got to ground...

The ball had come out from the ruck he had called and play had moved on (hence Rolland asking the TMO to show a replay it so that he could see the number of the Munster player who had infringed so that he could Yellow Card him). POM was very visible.

Why didn't he Yellow Card a player then, having stated he was going to do so?

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:Well the crowd were in Rolland's ear, so what would you expect POC to do.

The same as the other 27 players on the field who aren't Captain of their side.

Well, I'd imagine that most players would get a bit heated if having gone to the TMO all night he then refuses to go to the TMO because he didn't see the ball being grounded.

Two serious errors from Rolland cost Munster a losing bonus point and a try bonus point tonight (and maybe even a draw).

Most players will say is that all they ask from the Ref is consistency - well Rolland didn't consistently use the TMO tonight.