Ulster v Munster

First topic message reminder :

No one making a new thread so it falls to a Ladyboy to keep yis honest

the IT on Tuesday wrote:Penney said Conor Murray and Simon Zebo would return to the fray towards the end of next week and were not yet ruled out of the upcoming Heineken Cup tie with Gloucester.

Flanker Sean Dougall and centre James Downey (groin) will also miss this week’s game but should be fine for the Gloucester trip.

Donnacha Ryan will not make that clash and is unlikely to be fit for the final Heineken Cup clash with Edinburgh, but Penney said the lock would be available for the Six Nations.

profitius wrote:Munster team vs Ulster named. Its weaker than I thought it would be. No JJ, Cronin, Downey, Earls or Donn Ryan.  


Munster: Felix Jones; Andrew Conway, Casey Laulala, Ivan Dineen, Ronan O'Mahony; Ian Keatley, Cathal Sheridan; Dave Kilcoyne, Damien Varley, Stephen Archer; Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell; Peter O'Mahony Capt., Tommy O'Donnell, James Coughlan.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, John Ryan, BJ Botha, Dave Foley, CJ Stander, Duncan Williams, Johnny Holland, Johne Murphy.


Murray is back in training and Zebo must be nearing a return also.

the IT today wrote:There is some optimism in Ulster as the province is expected to announce a three-month contract for Stephen Ferris, which would give the popular Ravenhill figure a realistic chance to prove his fitness.

The highly-regarded international has been unavailable due to injury since November 2012 but has been making progress on his ankle injury since an operation in the summer. Ulster also expect that their captain, Johann Muller, Irish international backrow Chris Henry, John Afoa and Nick Williams will be all set to face Munster in a sold-out Ravenhill on Friday. It is also expected that forward Iain Henderson will return.

Notch wrote:Ulster XV and replacements to face Munster, RaboDirect PRO12, Ravenhill, Friday 2nd January (kick off 19:05);

(15-9): J Payne, A Trimble, D Cave, L Marshall, C Gilroy, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): T Court, R Herring, J Afoa, I Henderson, D Tuohy, R Diack (Captain), C Henry, R Wilson; (16-23): N Annett, C Black, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, N Williams, S Doyle, P Marshall, M Allen.

First reaction- TERRIBLE news Muller suffered an injury in training this week. Big blow- hope he is there for Montpellier. Extra back row forward on the bench to cover for the fact Henry and Henderson are on their first games back.

Hanrahan isn't involved at all for Munster, not gutted about that.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote:

JmD wrote:I'd just like to point out that a player being on his feet does NOT entitle him to play the ball in a ruck. It doesn't matter if he can see the ball. It doesn't matter if he can reach the ball. It doesn't matter if he is on his feet. If he isn't the first arriving player then he cannot play it. Simple.

According to Alan Quinlan (with Pope in agreement) it wasn't a ruck.

I didn't think it was a ruck either, but Rolland called it as one early.  He gave POM three warnings to get his hands off the ball and he still played it.  Just another example of POM's utter lack of awareness on the pitch.  Whether it was actually a ruck or not POM should have have the wit to release after being warned.  Incompetent refereeing and incompetence on the pitch from POM.  

Ah come off it, Ulster were in a try scoring position and POM was being told to stop competing for a ball legitimately. Forgive him that he thought that he what he was doing was correct.

Sin é wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote:

JmD wrote:I'd just like to point out that a player being on his feet does NOT entitle him to play the ball in a ruck. It doesn't matter if he can see the ball. It doesn't matter if he can reach the ball. It doesn't matter if he is on his feet. If he isn't the first arriving player then he cannot play it. Simple.

According to Alan Quinlan (with Pope in agreement) it wasn't a ruck.

I didn't think it was a ruck either, but Rolland called it as one early.  He gave POM three warnings to get his hands off the ball and he still played it.  Just another example of POM's utter lack of awareness on the pitch.  Whether it was actually a ruck or not POM should have have the wit to release after being warned.  Incompetent refereeing and incompetence on the pitch from POM.  

Ah come off it, Ulster were in a try scoring position and POM was being told to stop competing for a ball legitimately. Forgive him that he thought that he what he was doing was correct.

I have to watch it again to make sure, but I think he was warned three times to keep his hands out.  Three times he was warned.  You play to the referee, even if he is utterly wrong which Rolland was.  But POM was warned and didn't listen.  Play to the ref- as schoolboys are warned to.  Stupid, stupid play.  The fact that he was warned makes his offence even worse.

Just for the record:

Ulster conceded 19 penalties yet received no team warning.
Munster conceded 10 penalties, received 2 team warnings and one yellow card.

I have a massive amount of respect for O'Connell, he's one of my favourite non-Ulster players ever. One of my favourite players full stop.

I just feel he hasn't adapted to not being Captain of Munster, having had that role for so many years. Only the Captain can talk to the ref that much and he was taking serious liberties all game. It was very annoying.

We were on the receiving end of some pretty awful calls but we didn't harangue the ref.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote:

JmD wrote:I'd just like to point out that a player being on his feet does NOT entitle him to play the ball in a ruck. It doesn't matter if he can see the ball. It doesn't matter if he can reach the ball. It doesn't matter if he is on his feet. If he isn't the first arriving player then he cannot play it. Simple.

According to Alan Quinlan (with Pope in agreement) it wasn't a ruck.

I didn't think it was a ruck either, but Rolland called it as one early.  He gave POM three warnings to get his hands off the ball and he still played it.  Just another example of POM's utter lack of awareness on the pitch.  Whether it was actually a ruck or not POM should have have the wit to release after being warned.  Incompetent refereeing and incompetence on the pitch from POM.  

Ah come off it, Ulster were in a try scoring position and POM was being told to stop competing for a ball legitimately. Forgive him that he thought that he what he was doing was correct.

I have to watch it again to make sure, but I think he was warned three times to keep his hands out.  Three times he was warned.  You play to the referee, even if he is utterly wrong which Rolland was.  But POM was warned and didn't listen.  Play to the ref- as schoolboys are warned to.  Stupid, stupid play.  The fact that he was warned makes his offence even worse.

I'd always want a player to compete for the ball when the opposition are that close to your line. (A choice of conceding 7, 3 or 0 pts).

Just rewatched the incident. POM is warned twice to leave it. He is told it is a ruck. That was a wrong call, but POM was warned. Then he is told twice to leave it. Play to the ref. Stupid from POM, really brainless stuff.

Notch is right, POC clearly has no respect for POM as captain. That clearly rubbed off on the referee. If the players don't respect him then how can the referee. Not really POM's fault, but he simply lacks authority while POC is on the pitch. Exactly the same happened to Ireland with Heaslip and BOD. Heaslip was captain and the players looked to BOD for leadership. POM is Munster captain and the players looked to O'Conell. Can't be easy for a young captain trying to assert his authority.

Notch wrote:I have a massive amount of respect for O'Connell, he's one of my favourite non-Ulster players ever. One of my favourite players full stop.

I just feel he hasn't adapted to not being Captain of Munster, having had that role for so many years. Only the Captain can talk to the ref that much and he was taking serious liberties all game. It was very annoying.

We were on the receiving end of some pretty awful calls but we didn't harangue the ref.

Ulster conceded double the penalties and no team warning! Get away with that.

Respect is a two-way thing, and I thought Rolland treated POM poorly.

Its up to POM to assert himself.

Sin é wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote:

JmD wrote:I'd just like to point out that a player being on his feet does NOT entitle him to play the ball in a ruck. It doesn't matter if he can see the ball. It doesn't matter if he can reach the ball. It doesn't matter if he is on his feet. If he isn't the first arriving player then he cannot play it. Simple.

According to Alan Quinlan (with Pope in agreement) it wasn't a ruck.

I didn't think it was a ruck either, but Rolland called it as one early.  He gave POM three warnings to get his hands off the ball and he still played it.  Just another example of POM's utter lack of awareness on the pitch.  Whether it was actually a ruck or not POM should have have the wit to release after being warned.  Incompetent refereeing and incompetence on the pitch from POM.  

Ah come off it, Ulster were in a try scoring position and POM was being told to stop competing for a ball legitimately. Forgive him that he thought that he what he was doing was correct.

I have to watch it again to make sure, but I think he was warned three times to keep his hands out.  Three times he was warned.  You play to the referee, even if he is utterly wrong which Rolland was.  But POM was warned and didn't listen.  Play to the ref- as schoolboys are warned to.  Stupid, stupid play.  The fact that he was warned makes his offence even worse.

I'd always want a player to compete for the ball when the opposition are that close to your line. (A choice of conceding 7, 3 or 0 pts).

Irrelevant. At that stage of the match it was a brainless 3 points to give away. POM didn't listen to clear instructions from the referee, even if he was wrong (which I think everyone can agree he was). You play to the referee. Every schoolboy knows it. If you told to keep your hands out then you keep your hands out.

Kia, to be fair, Jim Neilly is just a confused, lovable old man who mixes up Ulster players names all the time as well! His complete inability to tell the difference between Luke Marshall and Nevin Spence was very funny at the time but is now rather bittersweet as with all memories that involve Spence.

Ryan Constable on the other hand, is irritating- as an agent who represents a large number of players in the Ulster squad, he should be nowhere near a punditry position. He's the Sheahan of the North.

It was a good game. Maybe a bit scrappy but the crowd got their monies worth. Both teams got good preparation for next week. I know refferring is difficult but the real shocker Rollaind made was the Munster maul near the end when he didn't use the TMO. Anyway no point complaining about the ref too much.


Positives for Munster was the display of the pack. POM and POC were immense for Munster. The rest had solid games. Duncan Casey was very good also. He looks a solid thrower and decent around the field. Great to see him perform in that enviornment.


Nagatives for Munster were the lack of back play and Keatley. We all knew about the lack of penetration from the backs but Keatley had a shocker. The missed touch finders were as bad or worse than the missed goal kicks. Hanrahan is clear number 1 now. Also the injuries are mounting up now.


For Ulster I thought Payne and Marshall were very good. Tuohy and Henry the pick of the pack. Hopefully Best is back next week.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I hate POM 

There I fixed it for ya!

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Just rewatched the incident.  POM is warned twice to leave it.  He is told it is a ruck.  That was a wrong call, but POM was warned.  Then he is told twice to leave it.  Play to the ref.  Stupid from POM, really brainless stuff.  

Notch is right, POC clearly has no respect for POM as captain.  That clearly rubbed off on the referee.  If the players don't respect him then how can the referee. Not really POM's fault, but he simply lacks authority while POC is on the pitch.  Exactly the same happened to Ireland with Heaslip and BOD.  Heaslip was captain and the players looked to BOD for leadership.  POM is Munster captain and the players looked to O'Conell.  Can't be easy for a young captain trying to assert his authority.  

So if POM didn't compete for that ball, Ulster would have been in for a try. Sorry, bad and all as it is, I'd prefer to give away a penalty.

Rolland always had it in for POC (and Munster in general).

I wouldn't worry about POM - he will be grand and from what I can see, the older guys are great with POM (last Heineken Cup match for example, when the Munster players were going in after their warm-up, POM, Coughlan & POC were leading the team when POC pulled Coughlan back to let POM lead the team in. POM was asked once how he felt about leading POC as captain, and POM replied that POC could look after himself - he didn't need any help from him.    I wouldn't worry about him!

What was the first penalty for against Dineen? Was it for tackling Gilroy without the ball? If so why not more? I haven't seen a replay so can't be certain

Have to say I thought we got the rough end of the stick regarding decisions. Point in case was the first few scrums when Munster got a free kick for it being unstable on the their ball. When the same was true at the next scrum on ulster ball we had a reset.

Irrespective the result was fair and good prep going into the HEC

I didn't see any evidence that Munster had grounded the ball near the end there and Rolland seemed certain it was held up. He is perfectly capable of viewing an event and believing he has just seen the exact opposite but too many refs are using the TMO as a crutch these days and he was definitive.

If I was to pose a question as regards that particular incident it would be why the entire Munster pack seemed to think they'd score more points if they mauled the ball further into the in-goal area.

Overall both teams mixed the excellent with the awful and it made for great viewing!

Sin é wrote:Just for the record:

Ulster conceded 19 penalties yet received no team warning.
Munster conceded 10 penalties, received 2 team warnings and one yellow card.

Jim Neilly was quite trenchamt on the poor discipline by Ulster and confidently expected a yellow card for them. He expressed surprise that the home team were being blown up so often - he reckoned it was unusual for a home team to get into double fgures with penalties and yet, I think it was the first pen in the 2nd half which he said was their 10th I was surprised that they didn't even any form of team warning.

Yes Stand it was for interfering with Gilroy Penalty was right call as it wasnt a guaranteed try. The interesting thing with big matches coming could be citings Thuohy charge/barge/tackle off the ball on POM, a clothesline/high tackle on Trimble and a Tackle off the ball on Trimble were all not seen or at least not dealt with by officials

SUFTUM

AR is appalling. Appalling. I would welcome some kind of analysis of the reffing decisions in that game.

In all fairness Jim bless his soul is a terrible commentator however on the pens front Ulster did give away too many

Notch wrote:Kia, to be fair, Jim Neilly is just a confused, lovable old man who mixes up Ulster players names all the time as well! His complete inability to tell the difference between Luke Marshall and Nevin Spence was very funny at the time but is now rather bittersweet as with all memories that involve Spence.

Ryan Constable on the other hand, is irritating- as an agent who represents a large number of players in the Ulster squad, he should be nowhere near a punditry position. He's the Sheahan of the North.

I accept that most commentators get the names confused. However when the camera is showing the player's face or it is clear which number is involved you do expect them to get it right. However my real gripe is when commentators only see one team on the pitch. Neilly used not be too bad but in recent years he has become very poor and it detracts from the enjoyment of the viewer. I would love to turn down the sound but then I would miss the ref's mike which can often be heard and is useful in following what is happening.

To give away a penalty at that point of the game when Munster looked like they might win it, when it was far from certain that Ulster would score given the opportunities they had already butchered then it was a stupid, stupid decision. So if an Ulster player did that I'd be angry he was so brainless, like say Stephen Ferris against Wales. At a different stage of the match it would have been grand. At that point it was a total lack of awareness.

I just ignore Jim you cant fire him cos hes lovable but you dont want to listen to him either. Maybe I should take up the I can tell the Marshalls apart so thats a good start

Jim Neilly is an eejit - his biases are not simply pro-ulster - he has obvious bias among the Ulster players.

Williams tries a one handed offload that fails - he's a buffoon, Piennaar does the same - "He just needed a player a little closer to him!"

It really annoys me at times.

But anyways... Kia - He commentates for BBC NI - Not for a nationwide (UK) or multinational audience - so what would you expect?

I am fizzing with anger - but let's just say, "the right result by questionable deduction. " Game over, well done everyone!

Neil

If he gives that penalty it's an automatic yellow even if the try wasn't on. I thought there was a clear tackle on Trimble off the ball in the 2nd half as we'll although that's only through my eyes. The penalty in the lead up to Munsters third score I thought questionable too.

If both teams feel so aggrieved it doesn't look like a great performance

Just watched the O'Mahony penalty back on TV (I had only seen it live before) and he really has nobody to blame but himself. Rolland actually told him to leave it before he went in to the ruck, then 2 more times when he started to play the ball.

Rolland had a very poor night overall, but that was a correct decision. The calls against Munster have been discussed to the death, but they got the rub of the green on more than one occasion.

The scrum that led to their first kickable penalty should have been awarded to Ulster as the ball had been held off the ground immediately following the restart kick, but Rolland seemed to completely forget this law and gave Munster the ball instead. Then there was Trimble being taken out off the ball as he ran to support Cave on a potential breakaway try opportunity. Rolland also took until the second half to realise Archer was boring in at every scrum. Munster were given more than enough opportunities to win (which they had no right to do, based on their performance), but Ulster will be thankful that Keatley left his boots in Limerick.

Standulstermen wrote:What was the first penalty for against Dineen? Was it for tackling Gilroy without the ball? If so why not more? I haven't seen a replay so can't be certain

I know that I am the only one who saw it this way but here was my take on it.

Gilroy ran in front of Dineen and when he realised the ball went to the left instead of running on, stopped (using his elbow to Dineens ribs) and upon realising he could not get the ball raised his hands and appealed for a penalty, the bounce of the ball wrong footed Gilroy. All Dineen did was to try and compete for the ball. I really saw no holding, just a man attempting to get past a player to play the ball.

Rolland called a penalty and the went to the TMO. Surely if it was such a penalty then it was cynical play and Dineen should have been awarded a yellow card? I think that Rolland realised this after watching the replays and did not want to back down so left it at the penalty.
I say this because he tried to avoid making that decision by asking the TMO to go way back in the run of play to see if Trimble had knocked on.

I know that I am well on my own in this view but that's how I saw the incident.

Indeed. Well on your own.

He went back to look at Trimble and his pass to see if he could legitimately avoid awarding a penalty try. He couldn't find anything wrong with it, and then bottled both the try and/or a card.

Putting your arm around a player from behind to pull him down when the ball is ten feet away constitutes beibg taken out off the ball in my view.

Having said that, Gilroy is clearly gunning for a Bafta nomination.

I thought I might be Don Alfonso

I didn't think that the ball was that far away and that Gilroy was wrong footed by the ball going left instead of straight on. He then basically blocked any chance that Dineen had by throwing his arms in the air looking for a penalty. He was not trying to go for the ball whereas Dineen was. I honestly thought that there was nothing in it at the time. Had it been as bad as people are saying then it was cynical play and deserved a yellow card, it simply wasn't.

Standulstermen wrote:Neil

If he gives that penalty it's an automatic yellow even if the try wasn't on. I thought there was a clear tackle on Trimble off the ball in the 2nd half as we'll although that's only through my eyes. The penalty in the lead up to Munsters third score I thought questionable too.

If both teams feel so aggrieved it doesn't look like a great performance

There were 3 I recall stand, certainly the Dineen one was a yellow (not a penalty try though).

Well, Nacho, we'll have to agree to disagree. They showed it about forty times on the big screen while Alain spent ten minutes trying to work out if he had the cajones to do anything about it. It looked cynical to me.

Personally, I thought it set the tone for a night of absolutely atrocious reffing.

Well that's what's good about forums Don, we all have our views. Agree that it set the tone for a very poor game by Roland (for both sides).

Ulster, especially Payne, were outstanding in the first half and that's were the game was won.

Yeah. We really slipped off the pace in the second half, but that's to be expected with it being the first game back from injury for a fair few players. Rolland needs to learn how a scrum works, though, and tap penalties.

I do firmly believe that if Keatley had his kicking boots on, it may have been a different story in the first half though. Certainly a lot closer than the 15 point lead Ulster had. He wasn't bad with ball in hand but his kicking gave Ulster so much breathing space.

For me, that foul on Gilroy was a yellow card or a penalty try or both. Rolland didn't have the cojones that early in the game. That set the tone.

Definite yellow for Dineen, but Gilroy's amateur dramatics probably convinced the TMO to not recommend the card. OTOH if Trimble had gone down on just one of the occasions he was impeded that could also have been a yellow for Munster. Maybe Gilroy and Trimble need to learn from each other?

I will watch the incident again when its online somewhere but surely, if you agree that Gilroy was making the most of it in looking for a penalty then he was not competing for the ball and thus blocking Dineen?

Yeah Stand you seen right Trimble was taken out off the ball just as Cave was about to pass. I think we all can agree AR had a shocker and Ulster probably deserved the win.

Nachos Jones wrote:I will watch the incident again when its online somewhere but surely, if you agree that Gilroy was making the most of it in looking for a penalty then he was not competing for the ball and thus blocking Dineen?

Does not follow at all.
He made most of the incident after he was fouled - I think your logic is flawed.

Lets be clear Rolland was terrible but he was equally terrible for both sides.
Both sides can point to a number of incidents where he got it wrong and it hurt them.
I don't think he decided the match.

Ulster should have been out of site in the first half but because they were not the rolling maul nearly killed them.
In the end a bonus Point for Munster would have been a fair result

I also do not understand comments on the quality of the game that was a very good game and Montpelier will not be as good as Munster.

I thought we had a couple of outstanding forwards last night - Tuohy and Diack.
Henderson and Hery made good returns. Boy have we missed Henry.
I thought our props were poor tonight and after being, slightly, critical of Black that last scrum was worth his wages alone - getting one over on BJ.
Again Wilson didn't impress me. A solid player who knows the ropes and can be cute in key situations but skill set is not quite good enough.

All threes were quite good and Payne was outstanding.
Pienaer was far better than some here think - not MOTM but a good game.

Geoff, I am just saying what I think. I have also said that I will re-watch the incident.

I have also said that Rolland was terrible for both teams, its just that incident seemed to stick in my mind more than any others as I was confused at how Rolland handled the situation.

Nachos Jones wrote:I will watch the incident again when its online somewhere but surely, if you agree that Gilroy was making the most of it in looking for a penalty then he was not competing for the ball and thus blocking Dineen?

Gilroy was brought down but in the process of going to ground was a but too theatrical for my taste (by throwing his arms out). If he had just went down naturally, Dineen would have been off, and that would have been a blow to Munster as he was their best back.

Yeah having just seen the incident again (I didn't have a good view of the screens) I'm more comfortable with no yellow. He did impede him but it was clumsy and his eyes were on the ball. I understand the call a bit better now but it's still bottling to give the pen and not the yellow.

I haven't seen that tackle on Trimble again yet though but that looked more blatant (on one viewing) as he would have been on. He wasn't perfect but I thought he showed a lot more than he has this season, albeit he passed to Marshall too early and butchered a try. (That's where Bowe is peerless)

Henry back is a godsend. If our injury crisis is over and we can get Best, Bowe, Muller and even Ferris back we could be in good shape

Mark Anscombe has said no injuries to speak of from the game.

Herring just needed an ice pack.

Looks like Muller, and maybe even Best being available for next week and Bowe not far behind.
  

geoff999rugby wrote:I also do not understand comments on the quality of the game that was a very good game and Montpelier will not be as good as Munster.

The game was exciting but poor quality, with far too many errors and poor kicks. However it was the capricious nature of the officials that spoiled the game for me.

Montpelier are a good team and if Ulster fall foul of a poor ref again they could cause plenty of trouble. At least Henry is back to offer some nous on the pitch, but I'd be happier if Muller was there directing things. Leicester will be another step up and Ulster will need all their experience to get a win at Welford Road.

Things we need to work on specifically is the maul, defensively and offensively. Don't get me wrong Munster are much better than most in this facet (the last non try was clearly two separate pods as well). I don't Montpellier will have the desire or be as resolute as Munster were. Given we reintegrated 4 guys back into the pack last night I'm happy enough. We haven't had the same start we enjoyed last season but then most of our guys (bar maybe Diack and Wilson) haven't played as much rugby and we have had our fair share of injuries touch wood. Add that to the fact we are still in the mix in both competitions and it's grand. In fact I would say all the provinces are in good shape bar our friends out west.

From a neutral point of view just a few things I came up with.I'm not sure now whether Munster just don't have any firepower in their back line at all or are they just badly coached?

Ulster cannot defend driving mauls.Ulster's backs come forward at a rate Munster could only dream of.Henderson is wasted in the second row.the sooner Payne is Irish qualified the better. Signing pienaar for three years is the best bit of transfer business this year as is letting court go.that's about it I think.one last thing the stadium looks awesome and Ireland's possible world cup bit in future years looks well served with the great rugby stadiums ireland now possesses.

geoff999rugby wrote:I thought we had a couple of outstanding forwards last night - Tuohy and Diack.
Henderson and Hery made good returns. Boy have we missed Henry.
I thought our props were poor tonight and after being, slightly, critical of Black that last scrum was worth his wages alone - getting one over on BJ.
Again Wilson didn't impress me. A solid player who knows the ropes and can be cute in key situations but skill set is not quite good enough.

All threes were quite good and Payne was outstanding.
Pienaer was far better than some here think - not MOTM but a good game.

I thought Henderson was rather disappointing to be honest Geoff. Pretty anonymous around the park. Henry was excellent in the first half- TOD and POM were pretty anonymous in the first half, though POM improved after the break and he and Henry were more or less even. TOD was a huge disappointment for me as I am a huge fan. Tuohy had an excellent match, though I'm not 100% sure he outplayed POC as some are suggesting. I thought they were equally prominent. I think a few people are being blinded by POC bouncing Tuohy in contact once or twice- that does not equal being outplayed. If Tuohy was the better player it was marginal, but it is good to see him putting his hand up again close to the Six Nations. Ireland need a second row option if Ryan isn't fit. Toner and McCartney are just too average for the international game. Dave Foley did well when he came on. He just looks like he needs to fill out a bit more. Duncan Casey was really excellent when he came on as well. It is good to see a new young dynamic hooker coming through the ranks at one of the provinces. Munster backs were pretty poor, Keatley is particular was abject. Hanrahan surely must get that 10 jersey.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:I thought we had a couple of outstanding forwards last night - Tuohy and Diack.
Henderson and Hery made good returns. Boy have we missed Henry.
I thought our props were poor tonight and after being, slightly, critical of Black that last scrum was worth his wages alone - getting one over on BJ.
Again Wilson didn't impress me. A solid player who knows the ropes and can be cute in key situations but skill set is not quite good enough.

All threes were quite good and Payne was outstanding.
Pienaer was far better than some here think - not MOTM but a good game.

I thought Henderson was rather disappointing to be honest Geoff.  Pretty anonymous around the park.  Henry was excellent in the first half- TOD and POM were pretty anonymous in the first half, though POM improved after the break and he and Henry were more or less even.  TOD was a huge disappointment for me as I am a huge fan.  Tuohy had an excellent match, though I'm not 100% sure he outplayed POC as some are suggesting.  I thought they were equally prominent.  I think a few people are being blinded by POC bouncing Tuohy in contact once or twice- that does not equal being outplayed.  If Tuohy was the better player it was marginal, but it is good to see him putting his hand up again close to the Six Nations.  Ireland need a second row option if Ryan isn't fit.  Toner and McCartney are just too average for the international game.  Dave Foley did well when he came on.  He just looks like he needs to fill out a bit more.  Duncan Casey was really excellent when he came on as well.  It is good to see a new young dynamic hooker coming through the ranks at one of the provinces.  Munster backs were pretty poor, Keatley is particular was abject.  Hanrahan surely must get that 10 jersey.  

No, I don't think so. That happened at the very end of the game. I think people are more impressed with the sheer number of tackles, and the effectiveness of his tackles, his line-out work, his ball carrying and his work rate in general. He had an outstanding game.

O'Connell was good in the line-out and heavily involved in the Munster pack, but he missed a fair few tackles from what I saw.

I'll not get into a Tuohy or POC debate other than if an Ireland side was being picked by me now they would both be playing.

I thought Henderson was good for 30 mins or so - yes he did fade after that but after a long lay off not bad in a position where, inspite of Irelands needs, is not his best.

If I was picking an Ulster backrow now (assuming no Ferris) it would be Henderson, Diack, Henry

Montpelier will have no appetite for the game - been told that by a Montpelier man and I do not think he was playing mind game. Hit them hard early on and they will be checking when the flight home is

Interesting backrow Geoff. Would moving Diack to 8 diminish his good work? I don't know. You have a good carrier in Henderson and Henry and Diack to graft away. Tuohy bounced a few tackles last night too. It was a bit more conspicuous from him.