England *EPS 2014* and 6N Squad

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EPS

Forwards (17)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints) Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) David Wilson (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Ben Foden (Northampton Saints) Alex Goode (Saracens) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Christian Wade (London Wasps) Marland Yarde (London Irish) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England RBS 6 Nations squad (35)

Forwards (18)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Matt Mullan (London Wasps) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers) Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (17)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Alex Goode (Saracens) Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby) Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints) Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby) Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons squad:
Forwards (17): C Clark (Northampton), J Crane (Leicester), P Doran Jones (Harlequins), W Fraser (Saracens), J Haskell (Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter), G Kitchener (Leicester), G Kruis (Saracens), K Myall (Wasps), D Paice (London Irish), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester), H Thomas (Sale), T Waldrom (Leicester), L Wallace (Harlequins), R Webber (Bath), N Wood (Gloucester).

Backs (15): A Allen (Leicester), L Burrell (Northampton), E Daly (Wasps), G Ford (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), J May (Gloucester), U Monye (Harlequins), S Myler (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter), C Sharples (Gloucester), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tait (Leicester), J Tomkins (Saracens), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).

Sharples was a bit of a disaster in defence, I don't think he actually got any better so can understand his exclusion.

Brown won't be dropped for Goode, I'm 100% sure this won't happen.

How is Waller not included in any squad? There can't be a better scrummaging LH in England at the minute.

One good thing about Quins match was that Robshaw absolutely bossed the ASM pack in the breakdown

Sgt_Pooly wrote:How is Waller not included in any squad? There can't be a better scrummaging LH in England at the minute.

Probably because there are about half a dozen looseheads who are better than him. We are exceptionally blessed in that position at the moment. If he keeps improving his time will come.

ChequeredJersey wrote:One good thing about Quins match was that Robshaw absolutely bossed the ASM pack in the breakdown

Yep. Just like he's done many times before for club and country.

No doubt though one bad performance from the team and the same old one liners will be rolled out.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:How is Waller not included in any squad? There can't be a better scrummaging LH in England at the minute.

Probably because there are about half a dozen looseheads who are better than him.  We are exceptionally blessed in that position at the moment.  If he keeps improving his time will come.

Is his prowess at AP level all due to him, or due to the excellent established scrummagers around him, the power of the pack behind him etc? 60% of a scrum's effectiveness is due to the locks, is it not?

yappysnap wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:One good thing about Quins match was that Robshaw absolutely bossed the ASM pack in the breakdown

Yep. Just like he's done many times before for club and country.

No doubt though one bad performance from the team and the same old one liners will be rolled out.

Funny how many so called better players have a bad game against him if he's so average, isn't it

ChequeredJersey wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:One good thing about Quins match was that Robshaw absolutely bossed the ASM pack in the breakdown

Yep. Just like he's done many times before for club and country.

No doubt though one bad performance from the team and the same old one liners will be rolled out.

Funny how many so called better players have a bad game against him if he's so average, isn't it

The Robshaw/Wallace combination worked better than Robshaw/Guest, though. Wallace has really come into his own this season. I was also very encouraged by how Collier went against Clermont - got schooled (or the ref got conned) a couple of times but for most of the game held steady, and Quins got one against the head at the end. Given that an injury to Cole or Thomas would catapult him into the squad, it was a relief that he wasn't completely destroyed.

Poorfour wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:One good thing about Quins match was that Robshaw absolutely bossed the ASM pack in the breakdown

Yep. Just like he's done many times before for club and country.

No doubt though one bad performance from the team and the same old one liners will be rolled out.

Funny how many so called better players have a bad game against him if he's so average, isn't it

The Robshaw/Wallace combination worked better than Robshaw/Guest, though. Wallace has really come into his own this season. I was also very encouraged by how Collier went against Clermont - got schooled (or the ref got conned) a couple of times but for most of the game held steady, and Quins got one against the head at the end. Given that an injury to Cole or Thomas would catapult him into the squad, it was a relief that he wasn't completely destroyed.

I agree with all of the above. Though the one against the head at the end was apparently Ward's hooking

Yes - but Ward wouldn't have had the chance without a solid platform from Marler and Collier and the scrum held solid even after the hook was lost (when you'd have expected Clermont to redouble their efforts).

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:How is Waller not included in any squad? There can't be a better scrummaging LH in England at the minute.

Probably because there are about half a dozen looseheads who are better than him.  We are exceptionally blessed in that position at the moment.  If he keeps improving his time will come.

Is his prowess at AP level all due to him, or due to the excellent established scrummagers around him, the power of the pack behind him etc? 60% of a scrum's effectiveness is due to the locks, is it not?

The same could be said of any prop I guess.

I can't think of half a dozen LH props that have out performed this season, in fact I can't think of one.

Corbs looks like he's pretty much finished, Marler has struggled most of the season in the scrum, Mako hasn't played that much and Mullen again has struggled in the set piece.

Waller has been the most impressive EQ LH by some distance.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:How is Waller not included in any squad? There can't be a better scrummaging LH in England at the minute.

Probably because there are about half a dozen looseheads who are better than him.  We are exceptionally blessed in that position at the moment.  If he keeps improving his time will come.

Is his prowess at AP level all due to him, or due to the excellent established scrummagers around him, the power of the pack behind him etc? 60% of a scrum's effectiveness is due to the locks, is it not?

The same could be said of any prop I guess.

I can't think of half a dozen LH props that have out performed this season, in fact I can't think of one.

Corbs looks like he's pretty much finished, Marler has struggled most of the season in the scrum, Mako hasn't played that much and Mullen again has struggled in the set piece.

Waller has been the most impressive EQ LH by some distance.

I would deny that this is in fact true at all

Marler struggled at the start of the season when the whole team was playing poopie. At that time he looked a long way off the player he'd shown signs of being on the summer tour.

BUT.

Now that the whole pack has upped their games he is looking 100 times better. I can't remember any major concerns in the scrum in any games. Well no more then the few pens every prop gets in the scrum lottery anyway; and he's been up against Clermont, Racing, Saints, Sarries, Tigers, Bath packs all with fairly big name and older props in them.

He's more then solid at scrum time and when you see him interviewed about it you realise just how smart he is for a relative youngster.

Brookes hammered him up at our place and that was only a few weeks ago.

I've hardly seen Marler get on top in the scrum at all this season, that may come from Collier being poor but to suggest he's not struggled would be incorrect.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Brookes hammered him up at our place and that was only a few weeks ago.

I've hardly seen Marler get on top in the scrum at all this season, that may come from Collier being poor but to suggest he's not struggled would be incorrect.

That is your impression. I disagree. I agree Brookes and the Falcons scrum definitely had the advantage, but against Sarries, Saints, Tigers, Clermont, Racing and even Bath he has looked at the very least equal in a much weaker overall scrum. He has not dominated any opponents except Racing, but has edged opponents in matches vs Sale etc. Just because you think one thing doesn't inherently make it true, especially in an area as subjective as the scrum, but I'll look at some stats in a bit to see what tehy imply

I agree he isn't dominant. But there are very few regularly dominant scrummagers out there now days.

He is more then reliable though. And any issues he has aren't helped by his very small hooker and some issues in the rest of the pack behind him.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Brookes hammered him up at our place and that was only a few weeks ago.

I've hardly seen Marler get on top in the scrum at all this season, that may come from Collier being poor but to suggest he's not struggled would be incorrect.

That is your impression. I disagree. I agree Brookes and the Falcons scrum definitely had the advantage, but against Sarries, Saints, Tigers, Clermont, Racing and even Bath he has looked at the very least equal in a much weaker overall scrum. He has not dominated any opponents except Racing, but has edged opponents in matches vs Sale etc. Just because you think one thing doesn't inherently make it true, especially in an area as subjective as the scrum, but I'll look at some stats in a bit to see what tehy imply

I thought he struggled in all these games.

He's was decidedly second best at the weekend and got hammered by an average Falcons front row.

I don't think Marler is a good scrummager or that good a player tbh, I tend to think he's more hype than substance.

You are entitled to your opinion

Unless you think he struggled against Racing, in which you are still entitled to your opinion but I'll be quietly ignoring your opinion on any props for the foreseeable future!

Now there's a threat!

Yea he didn't struggle in that game, that was the one with Tiny at TH if I recall right. I think I'd have stood a good chance against that scrum.

Didn't hurt that the entire Racing 15 had the team spirit and gumption of the current England cricket team...

Awful team, shows you money can't buy you everything.

Guys, can someone just confirm where we are with injuries at the moment? Have i missed any?

Corbs - Should miss the 6n
Yarde - Should miss the 6n
Wade - Should miss the 6n
Croft - Missing the 6n
Foden - Should miss the 6n?
Care - Might miss the 6n
Tuilagi - Missing the 6n.

Fraser, sure he would have been involved. No one else is coming to mind.

Parling, miss the start of 6N

Tomkins too. Shame

So its currently:

Forwards:
Corbs - Should miss the 6n
Croft - Missing the 6n
Fraser - Missing the 6n (I agree he would have been part of it)
Davy Wilson - Might miss some of the 6n
Parling - Missing the 6n

Backs:
Yarde - Should miss the 6n
Wade - Should miss the 6n
Foden - Should miss the 6n?
Care - Might miss the 6n
Tuilagi - Missing the 6n..
Tomkins - Missing the 6n

Would you agree that its more the backs that are the issue with quite a few of those looking to be starters?

Wilson - not sure how long he is out for though.

Wilson too, I think.

But Manu might make the last 2 matches, isn't that right?

If we get any more back 3 or centre injuries, I hope Daly gets called up

Dear Bomber, please pick Marler against Wales again, hugs, Munkian x

Happy with that

So's Hibbard

Why, so he won't have the worst haircut on the pitch?

With all the English hipsters playing ? Tough call

Unfortunately for him Danny Care's probably not starting cause he has that prize sown up

Whats with everyone having a downer on Marler? Whilst i agree he's no Julian White at scrum time (not many were) he's coming along nicely and wasnt shown up in any of the Ai's?

Which English Q'd LH's have been playing better?

Paul James...ah..maybe not

Also, George North could get PTSD (not really) from the huge hit Marler put in on him last week

GeordieFalcon wrote:Whats with everyone having a downer on Marler? Whilst i agree he's no Julian White at scrum time (not many were) he's coming along nicely and wasnt shown up in any of the Ai's?

Which English Q'd LH's have been playing better?

Well Mako did very well vs the Toulouse frontrow..... One of the only plus points of the game on the weekend.

Agreed Beshocked...thus both the LH's fighting for that England spot are playing fine...i'd be happy with either starting...

Just not sure where all the doom and gloom is coming from?

A front row of
1 Mako / Marler
2 Hartley
3 Cole

Is going to give ANY front row a proper game....and be a right pain in the backside in the loose aswell!

Mako and Marler will be the LHs in the match day squad. Both are underrated in the scrum actually, young and will keep getting better. I'm not worried about either starting. People are slamming Marler because he's not been dominating opponents, and our scrum has been weak. Which is due to a number if factors, plus I think that actually our best pack has not been in trouble that often- Marler was fine against ASM. When PDJ has started or come on we have sucked though

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SudNevXT8CI

ChequeredJersey wrote:Also, George North could get PTSD (not really) from the huge hit Marler put in on him last week

Well, he managed a 70m solo try so I look forward to him recovering

I guess you have to look forward to something else being a Newport supporter!  

Yey, Scrumpy is here !

Must be a whole new experience for you having Bath players capped for England, bet your ovaries are all tingly

munkian wrote:Yey, Scrumpy is here !

Must be a whole new experience for you having Bath players capped for England, bet your ovaries are all tingly

  

Did you enjoy the game Munk?   

The bromance infest v2 too...

Not hugely, was sober. We won the 2nd half though