Australian Open: Day Ten - 2014

First topic message reminder :

http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/schedule/schedule15.html

Day 9 somehow got lost , but Day 10 is ready to start.



Cibulkova would be an interesting winner, but she has a hard time closing matches (she is a class apart from the recent Djokovic antics).

Vika should have an easier time, but ARad is a tough cookie.

The Mens side has seen two "upsets" already, is there room for more?

Can Grigor (Baby Fed, to the French version) do the possible and upset Nadal the Iron Man?

Perhaps Federer (the elder) is the more capable between the two to cause an upset and beat Murray?

Fun day of Tennis awaits. Goodluck to all contestants today.

I'm loving Murray's attitude. Going for broke yet again when trying to save the match!

Well, good match to watch. Well played both; glad to see Murray back, and a fantastic effort against a man in good nick. As for Federer, 11 consecutive semi-finals at the AO...staggering.

Very impressed with both. Old Man did very well to hang on the second opportunity.

Havent been able to see and read all of the match commentary. Sky suggest Murray's back was playing up? Any truth in that from watching the match?

A match where both players will probably come away feeling encouraged.

Good fight from Andy, good play from Federer.

He'll have to be more ruthless against Rafa though.

Oh baby yesssssssssssss

Well done Federer, and his fans. Looked really good in spells, the improved backhand needs to stay strong if he has a chance to beat Rafa. And he has to serve like he did the first 2 sets.

For Murray, as satisfactory a loss as it's possible to have. His tennis and his match fitness is not quite there, but it's not a million miles off either and his determination was tremendous.

Of course Andy wasn't 100% maybe 93,6%, but Fed can do 2 intense sets and then it drops, possibly giving away the third set, to regroup in fourth. Could be good in Masters

Interceptor wrote:Havent been able to see and read all of the match commentary. Sky suggest Murray's back was playing up? Any truth in that from watching the match?

Hard to say for sure. He was grimacing a bit, but he tends to do that anyway. Might not have been his back, but he did seem slightly worried about some niggle. Fed even mentioned it after the match - that Andy might have been carrying something.

Interceptor wrote:Havent been able to see and read all of the match commentary. Sky suggest Murray's back was playing up? Any truth in that from watching the match?

It looked stiff and sore the longer it went on, but I wouldn't say the back has regressed or anything. It just lacks strength and it isn't used to matches like this. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

Interceptor wrote:Sky suggest Murray's back was playing up? Any truth in that from watching the match?

Not back to pre-surgery (around W win time) state, but getting there.

Jahu wrote:Of course Andy wasn't 100% maybe 93,6%, but Fed can do 2 intense sets and then it drops, possibly giving away the third set, to regroup in fourth. Could be good in Masters

A lot less at the net for Fed in the 3rd & 4th sets. Too tired maybe? Or just a loss of focus on his tactics?

I think we have gone from first super set, to average second, to crap third set and then pray and hope, to a good 2 first sets and then a little struggle. Seems a little more focused in AO.

Thanks for the replies ladies and gents. No shame in losing to Fed's, just glad another of the big guns in the game is back.

Completely outplayed in 3/4 sets by a 33 year old with no return game, poor serve and crippled movement?

What will the excuses be I wonder   

It's a shame we have to see Nadal still in this tournament, this may be his luckiest slam yet.

Allez Swiss man    

An extra hour on court dealing with a fightback - could have been worse I suppose.
 
Now, Fedal # 33, and it's difficult to look beyond Nadal win #23.  
 
As ever, the 1st set is likely to be significant, Federer has to win it, and even then......  
 
In only 8/32 matches so far has the loser of the first set gone on to win, the ratio is 6:2 in Nadal's favour on that score.  The two occasions when Fed has reversed a first set loss are Miami 2005 and Hamburg 2007, the last occasion when Nadal recovered from a set down was Cincinnati 2013.  
 
Therefore, if Nadal wins the 1st set he's almost invariably home and hosed (16:2 so far), but even if Fed wins the first set he's still got a fight on his hands (8:6 so far).

Danny_1982 wrote:Well done Federer, and his fans. Looked really good in spells, the improved backhand needs to stay strong if he has a chance to beat Rafa. And he has to serve like he did the first 2 sets.

For Murray, as satisfactory a loss as it's possible to have. His tennis and his match fitness is not quite there, but it's not a million miles off either and his determination was tremendous.

Thanks Danny. I was pleased with the solidity of the backhand, and his willingness to stay with the topspin variation for longer periods of time. Movement looked good and I think he may have been playing within himself, to an extent, in the fourth set. BP conversion and general nerves on the big points were a worry though. I don't give him much chance against Nadal, but to even get this far was more than many expected of him.

As for Murray, great to see him back and firing - some serious guts on display today! He can go away, have a rest, and continue to work on the back strengthening. Hopefully he'll now have the confidence that he can tough it out in due course against the guys at the top; it was his general fitness that got him in the end today, and he couldn't have done anything about that with the lack of matches. Commiserations to his fans, but it's wonderful to see him return to the game.

Grinding Muzza got out grinded by the fella known for his errors!   

Federer leads Murray in slam H2H 4-1.

Only stat that means anything   

Well done in saving match points in the 3rd   

Good to see Murray back in the mix after surgery, and no shame whatever in losing to a 32 year old player when that player happens to be R.Federer.

Have just watched Murray's press conference in full and he went up in my estimation tonight.

barrystar wrote:

Lionel Hutz wrote:

Jahu wrote:BP 3/11 for Fed, Poor.

Hate the Break Point Stat. I think it should look at the number of games that a player gets break points in. Federer has had break points in four games by my reading and broken in three of them with the fourth still ongoing

Yes - but it can also be pretty telling.  Take the RG 2007 final for example:

Fed's conversion rate was 5% (1/17)

Nadal's conversion rate was 40% (4/10)

Isn't that the story of that particular match?

It's interesting but when it works its a coincidence. I think it would be better to have the number of games that there were break points in in brackets. If you race to 0-40 and swing at the first two before taking the third, who cares if you have a 33% break point conversion

laverfan wrote:

Lionel Hutz wrote:Is this trouble for Murray either way. Eurosport commentators say he's wrecked but I can never tell with him. He always looks tired to me.

Lionel, Absolutely delighted to see you on v2. Welcome.

Thanks laverfan. I took a few months away to adjust to the reality of Federer not being a contender any more and thought I'd start posting on MTL again in the new year only to find it gone? What happened to it? and did all the regulars migrate to here?

When you listen to certain posters here, you'd think Serena is the only one who talks about injuries, etc after they lose....

Here is Andy Murray using his surgery as an "excuse" as to why he lost, and yet the same poster(s) is/are quiet.
  
ANDY MURRAY: I don't know how many players have come back from surgery and won the first Grand Slam back in their second tournament. Very unlikely to happen.

ANDY MURRAY: Look, it's frustrating because, you know, when you start the process, you're getting ready, it's basically been four months when you're lying on your back not being able to move or walk. You put in a lot of hard work for this long period.

Then, you know, as much as you haven't played enough matches and stuff, a lot of work and time goes into getting yourself ready. You want to give yourself the best chance to win.

Yeah, like I say, a lot of work went into this slam compared with other ones where you have a few weeks to prepare. This time I had a long time to prepare, maybe just not enough matches.

ANDY MURRAY: It's very important. I mean, there's certain injuries and niggles that you'll have that don't hamper your movement too much. They can just hurt a little bit, but you can still move absolutely fine.

But there's certain times where certain issues will hamper your movement, and that 5%, 10% at the top, top level is going to make a big difference 'cause the game is played at such a quick pace now.

You know, guys are moving so, so well. Being able to retrieve those extra two, three balls in a rally can be the difference between winning a set and not.

You know, if you're moving freely, it's going to make a big difference.

ANDY MURRAY: I didn't really know exactly what to expect. Like I say, I've never been through this process before, so I don't know how long it takes. I don't know, you know, what's normal.

Some people have surgeries and don't come back from them well at all. So there's that in the back of your mind. And some come back and do fine.

But it's obviously not easy. Yeah, the only concern was I hadn't played enough matches. I can do all the practicing and training I want.

Like I said, I trained for a good couple of months, although it was a bit slow at the beginning. I trained for quite a bit of time to get ready, but I just wasn't sure exactly how I was going to feel playing matches at this level because it's different.


On this MB, I guess it's one law for the Medes, and another for the Persians....

As for me, I prefer to listen to players like Serena and Murray being honest about their injuries, instead of refusing to talk about them in some mistaken belief that such a policy is "gracious".

The only thing bad for Federer was failing to serve it out in the third. And that happens to many players especially against a great returner. In the fourth set, he changed tactics. It seemed that shortening points was no longer the best thing for him and he really ground Murray down in that final set. Seemed to me like he would prefer to let Murray run for a few shots rather than going straight to the net. Its a smart play, especially considering Murray would have just swinging for it if Federer went in too much. I think he should be happy.

shivfan wrote:When you listen to certain posters here, you'd think Serena is the only one who talks about injuries, etc after they lose....

Here is Andy Murray using his surgery as an "excuse" as to why he lost, and yet the same poster(s) is/are quiet.
  
ANDY MURRAY:  I don't know how many players have come back from surgery and won the first Grand Slam back in their second tournament.  Very unlikely to happen.

ANDY MURRAY:  Look, it's frustrating because, you know, when you start the process, you're getting ready, it's basically been four months when you're lying on your back not being able to move or walk.  You put in a lot of hard work for this long period.

Then, you know, as much as you haven't played enough matches and stuff, a lot of work and time goes into getting yourself ready.  You want to give yourself the best chance to win.

Yeah, like I say, a lot of work went into this slam compared with other ones where you have a few weeks to prepare.  This time I had a long time to prepare, maybe just not enough matches.

ANDY MURRAY:  It's very important.  I mean, there's certain injuries and niggles that you'll have that don't hamper your movement too much.  They can just hurt a little bit, but you can still move absolutely fine.

But there's certain times where certain issues will hamper your movement, and that 5%, 10% at the top, top level is going to make a big difference 'cause the game is played at such a quick pace now.

You know, guys are moving so, so well.  Being able to retrieve those extra two, three balls in a rally can be the difference between winning a set and not.

You know, if you're moving freely, it's going to make a big difference.

ANDY MURRAY:  I didn't really know exactly what to expect.  Like I say, I've never been through this process before, so I don't know how long it takes.  I don't know, you know, what's normal.

Some people have surgeries and don't come back from them well at all.  So there's that in the back of your mind.  And some come back and do fine.

But it's obviously not easy.  Yeah, the only concern was I hadn't played enough matches.  I can do all the practicing and training I want.

Like I said, I trained for a good couple of months, although it was a bit slow at the beginning.  I trained for quite a bit of time to get ready, but I just wasn't sure exactly how I was going to feel playing matches at this level because it's different.


On this MB, I guess it's one law for the Medes, and another for the Persians....

As for me, I prefer to listen to players like Serena and Murray being honest about their injuries, instead of refusing to talk about them in some mistaken belief that such a policy is "gracious".

I think those comments are fair. The problem was the lay off more than the injury. A lack of match fitness rather than a relapse in the injury

shivfan, I say let's just be consistent. Either a player can say "dammit, I'd have probably won but for this injury" or don't mention it. I don't mind either, but congratulating the opponent, saying they played great and then mentioning injuries smacks rather of trying to have it both ways. No idea what Andy Murray has said so I'm not attacking him, just responding to your point.

As for Murray, had he won the first and lost later on with fitness there'd have been an obvious connection but it seems he did better as time went on, until the very end.

EDIT: Personally, I can't see how Murray can be 100% at this stage, that's got to be acknowledged. Against that, there's no way Federer will be as comfortable with the changed equipment as he will later in the year, so fair play all round.

Well done to Federer. On top for nearly all of the match. As a Murray supporter not too disappointed though. Could just have folded but stuck to the task right until the end. Hopefully good sign for the future.

The only annoying thing was that the service games he lost in sets 2 and 4 (one in each) really came from his own errors. Plenty of times Federer put him in trouble with great tennis and most times he got out of it. But in both of these games he gifted 3 points by missing shots when in an attacking position.

So Murray will now drop out of the top 4. Again I'm not too upset about that. Gives him a target to get back in there. Maybe we will see an improvement in his performances at the Masters events.

Interesting day all around. We have another Fedal clash. And I think the combination of Rafa having craters on his hand and Federer playing tennis of the gods again means we could be in for a real doozy. I thought Dimitrov played well, but Rafa is the ultimate fighter in the sport, and raised his level when it got tight. Dimi seems to also have a slightly small tank, so I'm not sure if he's quite ready for the long awaited breakthrough. Could be, I just don't think so.

kingraf wrote:Interesting day all around. We have another Fedal clash. And I think the combination of Rafa having craters on his hand...

Getting the excuses in already. Rafa was injured a) but he still won or b) that's why he lost.  "Craters"

Fedal clashes. You look for the cause for optimism and you can usually find some reasons to say "this will be Federer's day". But it just doesn't work out that way. I can't say Federer is in a better or as good a position to beat Rafa than he was when they met in the semi a couple of years ago. Tough for Federer but the odds are extremely in Rafa's favour

I hope shivfan only posted selected highlights of Murray's presser - surely it wasn't all about the back/surgery/recovery etc?

It's always difficult for players - they don't set their own agenda in these press conferences. Poor Muzz has a whole entourage of British journalists wanting to know how his back is. Poor Rafa has the global press wanting to ask how his knees are. Even ducking the question can be taken as "not giving credit" to opponents.

The thing that matters is that Murray was fit enough to win 4 rounds, so Fed still had to play well enough to beat him. Same with Serena to an extent - she was fit enough to win the previous match but in Ivanovic she met a player who was good enough to expose any weaknesses.

Lionel Hutz wrote:Fedal clashes. You look for the cause for optimism and you can usually find some reasons to say "this will be Federer's day". But it just doesn't work out that way. I can't say Federer is in a better or as good a position to beat Rafa than he was when they met in the semi a couple of years ago. Tough for Federer but the odds are extremely in Rafa's favour

That's why I think he has little chance. He was playing better than this in 2012, and still lost - a tight and heavily contested match, but a loss nonetheless. Although Nadal is also not playing as well as 2012, I don't think it'll make a difference. I'm just going to enjoy the spectacle and (hopefully) great points

Maybe praying for rain for Fed's semi with Rafa would help?! Not sure what the forecast is, but if it is a cool evening, it's hard to see how Fed wins.

Silver wrote:

Lionel Hutz wrote:Fedal clashes. You look for the cause for optimism and you can usually find some reasons to say "this will be Federer's day". But it just doesn't work out that way. I can't say Federer is in a better or as good a position to beat Rafa than he was when they met in the semi a couple of years ago. Tough for Federer but the odds are extremely in Rafa's favour

That's why I think he has little chance. He was playing better than this in 2012, and still lost - a tight and heavily contested match, but a loss nonetheless. Although Nadal is also not playing as well as 2012, I don't think it'll make a difference. I'm just going to enjoy the spectacle and (hopefully) great points

Yeah, I think its 75% Nadal. I think the only cause for hope for us Federer fans is that this attacking style is what is needed. Not so much about the level of play but the style.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Completely outplayed in 3/4 sets by a 33 year old with no return game, poor serve and crippled movement?

What will the excuses be I wonder     

It's a shame we have to see Nadal still in this tournament, this may be his luckiest slam yet.

Allez Swiss man    

Good to see the Fed worshippers / Murray knockers out in full force

For obvious reasons, i.e. not having won a slam in nearly two years, it's been a while   

YvonneT wrote:Maybe praying for rain for Fed's semi with Rafa would help?! Not sure what the forecast is, but if it is a cool evening, it's hard to see how Fed wins.

Gradually heating up again here in Melbourne

35c and dry all tomorrow

32c but with 50% chance of rain Friday .......

Pretty much as I expected. Not seen the match yet - but great to have some of the old Roger back

As mentioned by a few of us Murray fans - don't expect to see him at his best until Wimbledon

However, other than Miami, he has plenty of points to be gained

lags72 wrote:32c but with 50% chance of rain Friday .......

Intruiging. I will do a little rain dance for you Fed fans.

bogbrush wrote:shivfan, I say let's just be consistent. Either a player can say "dammit, I'd have probably won but for this injury" or don't mention it. I don't mind either, but congratulating the opponent, saying they played great and then mentioning injuries smacks rather of trying to have it both ways. No idea what Andy Murray has said so I'm not attacking him, just responding to your point.

As for Murray, had he won the first and lost later on with fitness there'd have been an obvious connection but it seems he did better as time went on, until the very end.

EDIT: Personally, I can't see how Murray can be 100% at this stage, that's got to be acknowledged. Against that, there's no way Federer will be as comfortable with the changed equipment as he will later in the year, so fair play all round.

Not seen the conference, but I'd be amazed if Murray just came out talking about his back without prompting. In fairness he can say that he's pleased with how he's comeback, without undermining the victor. He gets asked about it so often, he has no choice but to answer

On the other hand, if he said if it hadn't been his time out he'd have won......................!!!!

I am surprised Federer has been able to turn around his form so quick even if whatever physical issues he was carrying last year are gone. As Murray was my first choice to win, I was happy enough with Federer in his quarter - as I felt he would have been more vulnerable to Del Potro, Berdych or Wawrinka. As it turned out, I doubt he could have got past any of them to get beyond the quarters.

banbrotam wrote:

bogbrush wrote:shivfan, I say let's just be consistent. Either a player can say "dammit, I'd have probably won but for this injury" or don't mention it. I don't mind either, but congratulating the opponent, saying they played great and then mentioning injuries smacks rather of trying to have it both ways. No idea what Andy Murray has said so I'm not attacking him, just responding to your point.

As for Murray, had he won the first and lost later on with fitness there'd have been an obvious connection but it seems he did better as time went on, until the very end.

EDIT: Personally, I can't see how Murray can be 100% at this stage, that's got to be acknowledged. Against that, there's no way Federer will be as comfortable with the changed equipment as he will later in the year, so fair play all round.

Not seen the conference, but I'd be amazed if Murray just came out talking about his back without prompting. In fairness he can say that he's pleased with how he's comeback, without undermining the victor. He gets asked about it so often, he has no choice but to answer

On the other hand, if he said if it hadn't been his time out he'd have won......................!!!!

As with every case of this ever, I'm sure he was asked specifically about the injury, in which case you can't really say "nope, actually I'm at 100%" because that would clearly be a lie. Happens to Rafa too, and to Roger, and it's frequently reported out of context

The respective current levels from Federer and Nadal mean that I'm not instantly dismissing the forthcoming instalment of this once-interesting rivalry.

This is bad news for me as it gives me hope. And when I have any kind of hope for a sporting encounter, it usually gets stomped all over and leaves me wondering why on earth I let myself care about events I can't control, involving people I don't know, that don't change my life in the slightest.

Never mind. I'll just promise myself "never again"... and then go and get disappointed by Dubai, Indian Wells and Miami.

HM, so emotional, so deep. Chill man, its sports, it hurts and it pleases

I can't pass judgement on the match as I was working but it went much the way I expected (predicted the score spot on). Roger was in too good form not to win whilst Murray well we know about his preparation for this tournament. Posters here are commenting on how well Roger played and if that is the case then I would give him a serious chance of beating Rafa who has looked vulnerable at times in his last two matches.

No complaints from me as Roger has been consistently better than Andy in Melbourne and merits the semi-final spot. For Andy hopefully this is another step on his way back to being a proper contender. Well done to all you Fed fans who stood by your player and here is hoping the semi is a humdinger.

ChequeredJersey wrote:As with every case of this ever, I'm sure he was asked specifically about the injury, in which case you can't really say "nope, actually I'm at 100%" because that would clearly be a lie. Happens to Rafa too, and to Roger, and it's frequently reported out of context

Del Potro actually did this at RG12. He was clearly impeded by injury in the final 2-3 sets but refused to admit it in the press conference. Insisted he was fine and moved the subject on.

Top man.

I don't often post on this bearpit but can anyone explain why on a British website there is so much hate for the British player and love (and I do mean love) for a Swiss player?

Murray is getting crucified on here for losing to a still excellent player on about his 6th match after a long-term injury layoff.

Also I think the media spinning this as the return of Federer is wishful thinking. Its natural to want to see a great back in their prime but its not going to happen at his age. I honestly think Nadal in straight sets for the semi, and would have thought that had Murray got through too.

VTR wrote:I don't often post on this bearpit but can anyone explain why on a British website there is so much hate for the British player and love (and I do mean love) for a Swiss player?

Murray is getting crucified on here for losing to a still excellent player on about his 6th match after a long-term injury layoff.

Also I think the media spinning this as the return of Federer is wishful thinking. Its natural to want to see a great back in their prime but its not going to happen at his age. I honestly think Nadal in straight sets for the semi, and would have thought that had Murray got through too.

He is?   

This pretty much sums up my experience of being a Federer fan when waiting for a match vs. the great nemesis

VTR wrote:I don't often post on this bearpit but can anyone explain why on a British website there is so much hate for the British player and love (and I do mean love) for a Swiss player?

I'm not sure why a British website should equate to love of a British player but I can only think of one poster who does hate Murray. Most posters like the guy.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

VTR wrote:I don't often post on this bearpit but can anyone explain why on a British website there is so much hate for the British player and love (and I do mean love) for a Swiss player?

Murray is getting crucified on here for losing to a still excellent player on about his 6th match after a long-term injury layoff.

Also I think the media spinning this as the return of Federer is wishful thinking. Its natural to want to see a great back in their prime but its not going to happen at his age. I honestly think Nadal in straight sets for the semi, and would have thought that had Murray got through too.

He is?   

Ok maybe that's a bit OTT but he has taken some flak and takes a lot of flak in general on these boards (I read them every day but very rarely dare to enter the debate!)

Murray is loved here man. After Fed i think he is most loved here. Sure Nadal third ain't bad, and we all know Djoko is loved my his mom only and a couple of his Bankers

Jahu wrote:Murray is loved here man. After Fed i think he is most loved here. Sure Nadal third ain't bad, and we all know Djoko is loved my his mom only and a couple of his Bankers

I like Djoko.

He has nice ears.