Peter O'Mahony is a God (in Munster) - but is he actually any good?

First topic message reminder :

Liam Toland, former Munster backrow doesnt really rate him right now and neither do I. Do you and why?

"Peter O’Mahony is an interesting character who is developing into a fine leader. I fear, however, that his combative style is stunting his rugby playing progress. He has all the tools to be world class but often gets bogged down in street fighting. IRB Player of the Year Kieran Read is what O’Mahony should be striving for – broaden your game."
-Liam Toland
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/just-who-are-we-this-six-nations-is-a-real-chance-to-find-our-personality-1.1665970?page=2

Hes touted as a fine leader having captained at all levels at some point but is that enough to pick him?

Onfield he is all fire and brimstone and always looks like he is "starting" but for me he is a bit like the forward version of Luke Fitzgerald. Plenty of skill/talent but clueless when it comes to applying it to certain situations. All in all a fairly ineffective player in my opinion. A little more composure and intellegent rugby would go a long way for both players.

Gibson wrote:FFS please dont bring up the nightmare that was Kidney again. 5 years wasted. We have the coach we've really needed for years, at last.
Stop being stereotypical Paddies. We are on a roll and ye lot are still whinging and in-bitching about irrelevancies.

As my mate Maggie T would say... Rejoice!

only a bit of fun Gibson..however you have been in kaaskopland too long you are doing the typical Dutch revisionism. Five years ago you loved DK. Now you love JS, in 5 years it will be someone else you tart..

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:This beats the England / Ireland thread for entertainment purposes..

what's next...how about the reason we won both games is because Joe showed his preference for a Munster style game by getting Ireland to play like Munster. I suppose imitation is the best form of flattery..

He's one up on the Munster man then.  At least the players were allowed chase down the kicked balls in Joe's Munster blueprint.  Declan ordered most of them to stay behind as we kicked, kicked and kicked to fast lads running back at us.

Zebo is a master at reclaiming restart. The difference now is that ROG has improved Sexton game no end - even since the AIs, his game management and kicking game has improved a lot.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the new young prince of the kicking tee is just getting better and better. 10/10 on Saturday.

Sin é wrote: By the way, Plumtree is on record as saying he isn't into analysis (he put a stint in as an analyst for the All Blacks some time back).

This is absolutely correct. Well its correct if you subtract a number of words from his original statements. Plumtree is on record as saying he wasn't into video analysis during his stint under Mitchell. He complained that the computer analysis system was pretty raw and it was always getting bugs and it wasn't fit for purposes. Oh Sin you scallywag, go back to just making up quotes again rather than doctoring them. Your made up ones are my favourites.

Oh....I just got a text message from Jesus, that beardy rascal. He says his auld fella is from Cork. That explains it.

John Plumtree wrote:That’s the world that I come from,” he continued. “We have got some outstanding backs but unless their pack is formidable and dominates, as a group, then we won’t get what we want.”

It’s an honest judgment of Ireland’s finest grunts but one that should not be sensationalised as a slight because Plumtree had positive words for all eight of his starters against the Scots at the Aviva Stadium last week.

With Peter O’Mahony it is his work-rate and accuracy; Chris Henry his form for Ulster over the last few weeks while Rory Best he describes as an underrated player. Mike Ross is “stepping up” and Toner is proving Plumtree’s early concerns about his lengthy frame wrong.

Dan Tuohy was praised for the effortless manner in which he replaced Paul O’Connell at such short notice in round one while O’Connell himself, Cian Healy and Jamie Heaslip were labelled simply as outstanding. The absent Sean O’Brien he called world class.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/plumtree-challenges-pack-to-prove-greatness-257679.html

No wonder he got the sack from the Sharks. Sure is a great motivator.

Sin é wrote:Well, according to a lot of the squad, Schmidt gives them players their homework and and retreats away at the end of the week.

Plumtree doesn't think POC is a world class player. He thinks Ireland has only 1 world class player - Sean O'Brien. It doesn't surprise me that he doesn't rate O'Connell. Kiwis never rated the lineout and just think of it as a way to get the ball back into play. Brad Thorn was a world class player, but he was a hopeless lineout technician.

By the way, Plumtree is on record as saying he isn't into analysis (he put a stint in as an analyst for the All Blacks some time back).

John Plumtree wrote:I've been around a long time, and Paul's right up there in terms of the professional rugby players I've been involved with. I've coached in New Zealand and South Africa at the top level, and they can't talk highly enough about that guy. He's huge in terms of how he applies himself to his own preparation, making sure he ticks his own boxes so that he can lead the team right, and that takes time and effort.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/2014/0204/502247-plumtree-hails-fussy-oconnell/

Hmm... this is more of your own bizarro interpretations. You're not entitled to your own facts though! I think Plumtree saying he didn't enjoy working exclusively as a video analyst and being a guy who 'doesn't do analysis' aren't the same either tbh.

 

Was that you Notch?

Sin é wrote:

John Plumtree wrote:That’s the world that I come from,” he continued. “We have got some outstanding backs but unless their pack is formidable and dominates, as a group, then we won’t get what we want.”

It’s an honest judgment of Ireland’s finest grunts but one that should not be sensationalised as a slight because Plumtree had positive words for all eight of his starters against the Scots at the Aviva Stadium last week.

With Peter O’Mahony it is his work-rate and accuracy; Chris Henry his form for Ulster over the last few weeks while Rory Best he describes as an underrated player. Mike Ross is “stepping up” and Toner is proving Plumtree’s early concerns about his lengthy frame wrong.

Dan Tuohy was praised for the effortless manner in which he replaced Paul O’Connell at such short notice in round one while O’Connell himself, Cian Healy and Jamie Heaslip were labelled simply as outstanding. The absent Sean O’Brien he called world class.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/plumtree-challenges-pack-to-prove-greatness-257679.html

No wonder he got the sack from the Sharks. Sure is a great motivator.

Oh I see what you're doing there. Cian Healy, Heaslip and O'Connell Plumtree thinks are schit because he didn't get around to saying they were World Class? Had O'Brien been playing, Plumtree would have just piled him in with the others and called him "oustanding". But because O'Brien didn't play, he had no choice but just to say "World Class".

O'Connell didn't play in the Scotland game, just like Sean O'Brien !  

Oh yeah  Well, you're still dragging this one out a little, I feel Sin.  So Plum is going to be your marked man on this here new coaching episode/adventure?

BTW, whatever about Heaslip - he has those who like him and those that don't rate him...but I think if Paulie is a bit pizzed off with not being called World Class, then he'll have a partner in Healy. Insults all round from Plum...... the basteraud!

Anyone see Cian Healy slap Warburton on the face in the Ireland v Wales game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF6ntUyA3lk

Pure accident

ME-109 wrote:Pure accident

You sure?

It probably was actually.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote: By the way, Plumtree is on record as saying he isn't into analysis (he put a stint in as an analyst for the All Blacks some time back).

This is absolutely correct.  Well its correct if you subtract a number of words from his original statements.  Plumtree is on record as saying he wasn't into video analysis during his stint under Mitchell.  He complained that the computer analysis system was pretty raw and it was always getting bugs and it wasn't fit for purposes.  Oh Sin you scallywag, go back to just making up quotes again rather than doctoring them. Your made up ones are my favourites.

Oh....I just got a text message from Jesus, that beardy rascal.  He says his auld fella is from Cork.  That explains it.

Why are you hilighting video - thats the kind I meant.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Pure accident

You sure?

It probably was actually.

Well on looking at it again...

Pure accident   

On me looking at it again..Warburton was getting a "keep your head out of the way" warning..... Good man, Healy. Police your space.

ME-109 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:This beats the England / Ireland thread for entertainment purposes..

what's next...how about the reason we won both games is because Joe showed his preference for a Munster style game by getting Ireland to play like Munster. I suppose imitation is the best form of flattery..

He's one up on the Munster man then.  At least the players were allowed chase down the kicked balls in Joe's Munster blueprint.  Declan ordered most of them to stay behind as we kicked, kicked and kicked to fast lads running back at us.

so you agree the traditional Munster way of playing is the best way for this team?

So fly are you agreeing or not?

ME-109 wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:This beats the England / Ireland thread for entertainment purposes..

what's next...how about the reason we won both games is because Joe showed his preference for a Munster style game by getting Ireland to play like Munster. I suppose imitation is the best form of flattery..

He's one up on the Munster man then.  At least the players were allowed chase down the kicked balls in Joe's Munster blueprint.  Declan ordered most of them to stay behind as we kicked, kicked and kicked to fast lads running back at us.

so you agree the traditional Munster way of playing is the best way for this team?

So fly are you agreeing or not?

Oh sorry, ME...didn't honestly see that query.  Em...it's no secret that I have a soft spot for the Munster way...when it's done right.... with a full heart, lungs of steel and attitude aplenty.  
It needs everything right for it to work.  

I always say anything I say now can be retraced in 606 history (if people are bored enough to chase it down!!)  So I like the Munster way...always have.

And then I like the Leinster way.  It's not either/or for me.  It's a combination of both...or one for one game and the other for a different enemy.  Mix'n'match,stir it up.  Keep the enemies guessing.  That's what I want.  Munster way done well is okay by me - it wins games.  We have the players to do both.

You might be surprised to hear all that but you really shouldn't be if you've read enough of me.  No...I don't blame you if you don't......

Was just curious as to what type of garbled answer you would give..

ME-109 wrote:Was just curious as to what type of garbled answer you would give..

Ha.

ME-109 wrote:Was just curious as to what type of garbled answer you would give..

You mean you thought I'd deny that the Munster way was okay???

Sorry to have shocked you.  The problem with Ireland under Kidney, is that he was a past Munster coach who didn't really implement a Munster way.  It certainly seldom had the raw aggression that way needs.  Kicking away to stand static in a passive defence waiting for the enemy to run you down is no Munster way.  Question is why Kidney didn't insist on the full Munster way?

SecretFly wrote:Oh sorry, ME...didn't honestly see that query.  Em...it's no secret that I have a soft spot for the Munster way...when it's done right.... with a full heart, lungs of steel and attitude aplenty.  
It needs everything right for it to work.  

I always say anything I say now can be retracted in 606 history (if people are bored enough to chase it down!!)  So I like the Munster way...always have.

And then I like the Leinster way.  It's not either/or for me.  It's a combination of both...or one for one game and the other for a different enemy.  Mix'n'match,stir it up.  Keep the enemies guessing.  That's what I want.  Munster way done well is okay by me - it wins games.  We have the players to do both.

You might be surprised to hear all that but you really shouldn't be if you've read enough of me.  No...I don't blame you if you don't......

Hold on there me old muckidy muck. Reign those horses of yours in a second. If a Leinster man makes Ireland win matches playing the Munster way does that not make it the Leinster way? And if the Leinster way is now not the Leinster way and is in fact the old Munster way then what on earth are Munster playing? It can't be the Munster way because its the Leinster way which is now the Irish way.

If you follow that there's a bonio in it for you.

All I know is that munster are on top of Pro12 and in the final run down for HEC playing a game that...well, anyway they like on the day that's in it.

It's a working.... and everyone still keeps saying it's shyte.... Go figure. The wonderful world of Disney.

It has to be called the Munster way though to satisfy the Munster compliment quota. This is the only to ensure Munster fans continue to wear green jerseys at Ireland games.

POM is our best player and its the Munster way. Got it?

GunsGerms wrote:It has to be called the Munster way though to satisfy the Munster compliment quota. This is the only to ensure Munster fans continue to wear green jerseys at Ireland games.

POM is our best player and its the Munster way. Got it?

Sin is on another thread lambasting one of the coaches who are implementing the Munster Way. Schmidt and IRFU will have to do a lot more work on Sin before they get his approval ratings up

I don't mind really calling it the Munster way. Provided we can call it the Leinster slam if we win the six nations.

The Munster Way preparing the Ground for the Leinster Slam Dunk.

A joke... but I have a vague feeling that might be a plan of sorts. Just when they're expecting Munster they get hit with Leinster..... sweet combo...sucker punch.

What if it's 'the Leinster Way' led by Zebo?

Engine#4 wrote:What if it's 'the Leinster Way' led by Zebo?

There's room for everyone at the party..if he has tricks, we'll use them.

The great thing is Saint Joe's teams have never really played like that before. But in this case it was the correct thing to do, so they did it. Repeatedly. And all rehearsed and perfected in 6 days.

They won't do the same against the English pack. They'll try and move them around a but.

GunsGerms wrote:It has to be called the Munster way though to satisfy the Munster compliment quota. This is the only to ensure Munster fans continue to wear green jerseys at Ireland games.

POM is our best player and its the Munster way. Got it?

Glad to see you're learning. Also you can call it any slam you want..the Leinster slam lead by Poc , pom and Murray

All three of them?

GunsGerms wrote:All three of them?

Ok and the Racing Metro dude...(and probably Zebo   )

Ok, so at this point where is POM in his development?

Is it time for the Peter O'Mahony to have his own pajama line?
Should he be fast tracked for captaincy for the WC?
Does he still have composure issues, backchatting to refs etc?
Is his combative style particularly at the ruck sustainable for 5 games?

I know Guns is only listing off these options so this is not an attack on his post ... but since he mentioned something, I guess it's the right time to get it off my chest - as an objective tirade if you will.

Will we get over one thing here on Irish threads? - Captaincy!

I hate the mention of the word.  It's a rubbish word in the professional age.  If you don't already have three or four 'Captains' walking around the field in any one game then you're not at the top rung of rugby anyway;  you're not in the top five or six and you don't have much of a team that's going to compete well against the best.

Captaincy. Did POM need it in the Welsh game?  He didn't give a f**k who the Captain was, he was getting on with his own business - and if that was inspiring some of his team-mates then so be it.  You don't need to be Captain to lead.





Sexton for Captain!!!!

ME-109 wrote:Glad to see you're learning. Also you can call it any slam you want..the Leinster slam lead by Poc , pom and Murray

With the Ulster lads scoring the tries!

would be a smart move to make POM captain. impossible to shut him up, so if you give him the captaincy at least he wont get penalised by a proper referee for it.  

quinsforever wrote:would be a smart move to make POM captain. impossible to shut him up, so if you give him the captaincy at least he wont get penalised by a proper referee for it.  

Is it possible to shut anyone from Ireland up?

san wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Glad to see you're learning. Also you can call it any slam you want..the Leinster slam lead by Poc , pom and Murray

With the Ulster lads scoring the tries!

A nice over-hyped combo it's turning out to be....

In terms of his development he needs to improve his tackling.

Dont rate O'Mahony, and never have done..think there's much better candidates than him for his position in the Ireland side..

Feckless Rogue wrote:In terms of his development he needs to improve his tackling.

Funny, the other week you said "He's just doesn't have the size, power or work rate for test level rugby. It's as simple as that. Good club player.". So its his tackling now is it? Cian Healy charged at him in an interpro game last year and ended up going 5 yards backwards. How many times have you seen that?

Ok, sorry he's perfect actually. No improvements needed. Sorry for mentioning it.

gobby chap. wont get away with that at HQ. if he backchats more than twice, the crowd will boo, and the ref will feel comfortable penalising.

had a great game at the Aviva though, fair play.

ME-109 wrote:what's next...how about the reason we won both games is because Joe showed his preference for a Munster style game by getting Ireland to play like Munster. I suppose imitation is the best form of flattery..

Well not really the Munster way was for ROG to drill the ball into touch and clap. Then lie all over the oppositions ball until they lost heart and gave up the ghost.

Ireland are keeping the ball infield and forcing the opposition to concede the territory or possession with aggressive chasing. Then are using their own lineout to build their offence off. They are actually playing very like the all blacks, just giving the opposition the ball deep and trusting the defensive systems to win it back.

To the layman I can see how the tactics look similar, but to the rugby purist and master tactician like myself I can only marvel at the audacity to execute such obvious tactics. Its almost maverick in its conservativeness.

It reminds me very much of Ali using the right hand lead against Foreman in the rumble in the jungle.

rodders wrote:
To the layman I can see how the tactics look similar, but to the rugby purist and master tactician like myself I can only marvel at the audacity to execute such obvious tactics. Its almost maverick in its conservativeness.

It reminds me very much of Ali using the right hand lead against Foreman in the rumble in the jungle.

Hate to be an analogy pedant there Rodders... But a right hand lead is in no way conservative - especially in heavyweight boxing. It leaves you wide open. That's what made it special against a man who most thought had the hardest punch theretofore seen.   

I suppose you could stretch the analogy to saying that we're calling other teams' bluff.... That we're saying our opponents simply aren't as quick or as dangerous with the ball in hand as they and the media think they are.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

rodders wrote:
To the layman I can see how the tactics look similar, but to the rugby purist and master tactician like myself I can only marvel at the audacity to execute such obvious tactics. Its almost maverick in its conservativeness.

It reminds me very much of Ali using the right hand lead against Foreman in the rumble in the jungle.

Hate to be an analogy pedant there Rodders... But a right hand lead is in no way conservative - especially in heavyweight boxing. It leaves you wide open. That's what made it special against a man who most thought had the hardest punch theretofore seen.   

Ah yes that's not what I meant by the analogy. What I was referring that the right hand lead was completely unexpected by everyone - Ali would have been expected to use his jab and quick feet to move in and out of range, rather than be so bold as to do something as risky and simplistic as throw repeated right hand leads, which was a fairly crude approach.

Likewise nearly everyone expected Joe to come up with some super sexy offloading game - but so far has gone back to a very simplistic approach of using the rolling maul and kick chase game to break down opponents.

To identify that so many top class and feared wingers actually aren't comfortable under the high ball, and using the strengths we have in that area to put teams under pressure shows real tactical awareness - I think the utilization and success of the maul too has caught teams of guard. It shows how ruthlessly pragmatic Joe is.

rodders wrote:

Likewise nearly everyone expected Joe to come up with some super sexy offloading game - but so far has gone back to a very simplistic approach of using the rolling maul and kick chase game to break down opponents.  

Well I'm in agreement with that analogy. T'was the most impressive aspect of an already impressive result. So... in that sense, what do you think we're gonna do next weekend?

Are we gonna dance? ....Or are we gonna rope-a-dope?

You all did hear the words from the man's mouth himself (Schmidt)?

What was the reason for the tactics that killed off Wales?

They were actually wet'n'windy tactics that were meant for a day that was meant to be stormy.  When we realised it was going to be mostly an okay day, we decided we'd still go with the storm weather tactics.

It's as simple as that.  Sexton even said they tried a few more creative plays but they didn't seem to be coming off.  They weren't coming off because there were still too many players in "storm weather tactics" mindsets.

It's simple.  Joe won with the wrong tactics for the weather on the day.

He is a buffoon.  He is a chancer.  He should be sacked.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

rodders wrote:

Likewise nearly everyone expected Joe to come up with some super sexy offloading game - but so far has gone back to a very simplistic approach of using the rolling maul and kick chase game to break down opponents.  

Well I'm in agreement with that analogy. T'was the most impressive aspect of an already impressive result. So... in that sense, what do you think we're gonna do next weekend?

Are we gonna dance? ....Or are we gonna rope-a-dope?

One rope- a- dope coming up! I think we'll save our dance moves for the French!