Peter O'Mahony is a God (in Munster) - but is he actually any good?

First topic message reminder :

Liam Toland, former Munster backrow doesnt really rate him right now and neither do I. Do you and why?

"Peter O’Mahony is an interesting character who is developing into a fine leader. I fear, however, that his combative style is stunting his rugby playing progress. He has all the tools to be world class but often gets bogged down in street fighting. IRB Player of the Year Kieran Read is what O’Mahony should be striving for – broaden your game."
-Liam Toland
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/just-who-are-we-this-six-nations-is-a-real-chance-to-find-our-personality-1.1665970?page=2

Hes touted as a fine leader having captained at all levels at some point but is that enough to pick him?

Onfield he is all fire and brimstone and always looks like he is "starting" but for me he is a bit like the forward version of Luke Fitzgerald. Plenty of skill/talent but clueless when it comes to applying it to certain situations. All in all a fairly ineffective player in my opinion. A little more composure and intellegent rugby would go a long way for both players.

Sorry folks, I dragged this away from topic. carry on with the CJ Stander stuff

GunsGerms wrote:
Your opening sentence "Foley tips O’Mahony to become world class" sort of sums up the source of my ambivalence to him. In many ways O'Mahony is the most hyped young forward in Ireland and while everyone is saying he will be world class maybe this prompts posters like me to scrutanise his efforts even more. Hopefully he wont be the next Luke Fitz.

Yeah Guns I think that's harsh - is O'Mahoney over hyped? Yes to some degree. He's certainly not yet of the calibre of the likes of O'Brien, Heaslip, Ferris and the king of them all David Wallace.... maybe not quite there with Quinny, Neal Best, Leamy yet either.

But he is improving and has really taken on that mantel of captaining Munster, which is no easy feat given the expectation there, and is becoming a real talisman.

I wouldn't change his confrontational nature, in fact I'd like to see a few more Irish forwards step up in that regard... a few penalties here and there are acceptable if it puts the fear of god into the opposition.

The issue for me is that up until now his physicality hasn't matches his attitude but that is starting to change. The experience in the US against a physical back row seems to have helped him develop.

So what I'd say is - yes O'Mahoney has been massively (over)hyped, however he himself clearly hasn't bought into this and is continuing to knuckle down and improve in a manner some other similarly hyped players haven't. That says a lot about his character and I'm sure he will continue to be a big player for Munster and Ireland for years to come.

Yes he does have lots of character. I do admire him alright. do you mean Neil Back? Just kidding Best was decent enough too.

Neil Back? ....are you suggesting he's a cheat as well....

http://www.thescore.ie/analysis-peter-omahony-ireland-1299481-Feb2014/

POM is essential. He was the missing link. Himself, Henry and Heaslip will be focking deadly together, as they develop as a unit.  Pure balance. We've never had that.

SOB benched. Dems de breaks.

I like POM always have he is a great player.

He looks to be owning Warburton at the moment.

I'd be embarrassed if I were the author of this stupid silly article

...yeah, he looked pretty immense today! almost like a bigger 7 though, his work on the deck was great.

BlueMuff wrote:I'd be embarrassed if I were the author of this stupid silly article

Well, POM has certainly proved him wrong anyway. I'm sure Guns would be the first to admit it though.

Hood83 wrote:...yeah, he looked pretty immense today! almost like a bigger 7 though, his work on the deck was great.

He is like Alan Quinlan, but with a fantastic carrying game too. When the game opens up, he is immense also.

Peter O'Mahony - Is he actually any good?

Hmm, yeh hes alright, decent player.

  

Feckless Rogue wrote:He's just doesn't have the size, power or work rate for test level rugby. It's as simple as that. Good club player.

Who hacked into my account and posted that?

Of course, with my great knowlege and understanding of rugby, I always predicted POM would be a contender for player of the tournament.

Hah! Humble pie time for some.

Was annoyed at his getting on the wrong side of Barnes- that was brianless- but as a rugby player? He's doing the business.

He's ok for a Munsterman I suppose.

Hmmm...Guns has been vindicated. POM, weak link in that performance...much too much Munster passion on display...almost cost us the game....

Another great performance, not even an Ireland fan but I was screaming at him when he was giving the ref some lip, reign it in boy!

I'm happy to say that I was completely wrong, the past two games he has been immense for Ireland and deserved MOM today.
He has proves to me that h is much more than a club player.

Well done sir

Intresting when he comes up against wood

SecretFly wrote:Hmmm...Guns has been vindicated.  POM, weak link in that performance...much too much Munster passion on display...almost cost us the game....

Gatty rates the auld Munster pashion ..   

Gatland: “He’s [POM] been good the last couple of times I have seen him play. He’s excellent on the ball and you can never under-estimate the passion that any Munster player brings.

“You can see that when he sings the anthem and he wears his heart on his sleeve. He was very impressive.”

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Hmmm...Guns has been vindicated.  POM, weak link in that performance...much too much Munster passion on display...almost cost us the game....

Gatty rates the auld Munster pashion ..   

Gatland: “He’s [POM] been good the last couple of times I have seen him play. He’s excellent on the ball and you can never under-estimate the passion that any Munster player brings.

“You can see that when he sings the anthem and he wears his heart on his sleeve. He was very impressive.”

So do I, Sin - so do I.

I was being heavily IRONIC there.... He was brilliant.
And it's his passion I love. Though keep away from refs that tell you to stay away from them, Peter

flankertye wrote:Another great performance, not even an Ireland fan but I was screaming at him when he was giving the ref some lip, reign it in boy!

Funny thing, he seems to get away with it. Only 3 yellow cards in his career to date.

Sin é wrote:

flankertye wrote:Another great performance, not even an Ireland fan but I was screaming at him when he was giving the ref some lip, reign it in boy!

Funny thing, he seems to get away with it. Only 3 yellow cards in his career to date.

He cruised very close that time! Especially given it ws Barnes! I was surprised no Irish player came forward and took him away.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Hmmm...Guns has been vindicated.  POM, weak link in that performance...much too much Munster passion on display...almost cost us the game....

Gatty rates the auld Munster pashion ..   

Gatland: “He’s [POM] been good the last couple of times I have seen him play. He’s excellent on the ball and you can never under-estimate the passion that any Munster player brings.

“You can see that when he sings the anthem and he wears his heart on his sleeve. He was very impressive.”

So do I, Sin - so do I.  

I was being heavily IRONIC there....  He was brilliant.  
And it's his passion I love.  Though keep away from refs that tell you to stay away from them, Peter

I know you were Fly, just that a lot of supporters sneer at Munster passion.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

flankertye wrote:Another great performance, not even an Ireland fan but I was screaming at him when he was giving the ref some lip, reign it in boy!

Funny thing, he seems to get away with it. Only 3 yellow cards in his career to date.

He cruised very close that time! Especially given it ws Barnes!  I was surprised no Irish player came forward and took him away.

Well, Barnes looked like he wasn't going to bin anyone and let Phillips away with his back chat.

POC was gone off at that stage anyway.

One thing for sure, he has some engine. When Boss made that last break from the Ireland 22, POC was the player on his shoulder. Not bad after 80 minutes.

I never have...never will. I always mention it to whoever is watching the game with me. Even said it today to a few family members. "That's what you need. Some Munster F**K You Intensity passion."

I love players who wear their heart on their sleeve. Though Rory Best does a good impression of a Munster man too from time to time.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

flankertye wrote:Another great performance, not even an Ireland fan but I was screaming at him when he was giving the ref some lip, reign it in boy!

Funny thing, he seems to get away with it. Only 3 yellow cards in his career to date.

He cruised very close that time! Especially given it ws Barnes!  I was surprised no Irish player came forward and took him away.

Well, Barnes looked like he wasn't going to bin anyone and let Phillips away with his back chat.

POC was gone off at that stage anyway.

One thing for sure, he has some engine. When Boss made that last break from the Ireland 22, POM was the player on his shoulder. Not bad after 80 minutes.

Edited that for you, Sin - easy mistake to make as both show their passion and considering he was coming off a chest infection, POC was no slouch today (but he had gone off for a well-earned rest by this stage).

POM played his normal game nothing more (thats how good he is).

The giving out about his tete a tete with Barnes is pointless as that is how he is. He made his point and that was it. If POC was still on the field he would probably not have said anything. I think Jamie was checking his twitter account at the time or something....

Good man jamie...keeping his fan base happy twittering whilst having a stormer game (Ahem - I mean, just his normal game)

Ambidextrous too, Jamie?

Heaslip is a genius.

KiaRose wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

flankertye wrote:Another great performance, not even an Ireland fan but I was screaming at him when he was giving the ref some lip, reign it in boy!

Funny thing, he seems to get away with it. Only 3 yellow cards in his career to date.

He cruised very close that time! Especially given it ws Barnes!  I was surprised no Irish player came forward and took him away.

Well, Barnes looked like he wasn't going to bin anyone and let Phillips away with his back chat.

POC was gone off at that stage anyway.

One thing for sure, he has some engine. When Boss made that last break from the Ireland 22, POM was the player on his shoulder. Not bad after 80 minutes.

Edited that for you, Sin - easy mistake to make as both show their passion and considering he was coming off a chest infection, POC was no slouch today (but he had gone off for a well-earned rest by this stage).

Was pretty amazing considering he looked dead on his feet about 2 mins previously. Maybe he should be considered for the second row cos he brought some grunt to the scrum on a couple of occasions.

GunsGerms wrote:Liam Toland, former Munster backrow doesnt really rate him right now and neither do I. Do you and why?

"Peter O’Mahony is an interesting character who is developing into a fine leader. I fear, however, that his combative style is stunting his rugby playing progress. He has all the tools to be world class but often gets bogged down in street fighting. IRB Player of the Year Kieran Read is what O’Mahony should be striving for – broaden your game."
-Liam Toland
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/just-who-are-we-this-six-nations-is-a-real-chance-to-find-our-personality-1.1665970?page=2

Hes touted as a fine leader having captained at all levels at some point but is that enough to pick him?

Onfield he is all fire and brimstone and always looks like he is "starting" but for me he is a bit like the forward version of Luke Fitzgerald. Plenty of skill/talent but clueless when it comes to applying it to certain situations. All in all a fairly ineffective player in my opinion. A little more composure and intellegent rugby would go a long way for both players.

No he is very GOOD

Yep he was outstanding yesterday and deseverdly man of thr match. Exceptional performance.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:I'd be embarrassed if I were the author of this stupid silly article

Well, POM has certainly proved him wrong anyway.  I'm sure Guns would be the first to admit it though.

Not embarssed by the article but Rory nailed it. On his last three performances he certainly proved me wrong.

Maybe Luke Fitz will get a chance to prove me wrong too. I doubt it though.

Hopefully some people will start taking "average dave" seriously too and Trimble. Both put in great shifts again.

GunsGerms wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:I'd be embarrassed if I were the author of this stupid silly article

Well, POM has certainly proved him wrong anyway.  I'm sure Guns would be the first to admit it though.

Not embarssed by the article but Rory nailed it. On his last three performances he certainly proved me wrong.

Really guns, you forgot that in the mess that was last years 6ns he was close to being our best player, plus he plays like that consistently for Munster. Nice try at the last three games comment...  

Cant please a munster man.

Ill take you seriously when you admit DK is a quality player.

Who Dave Kearney? He is a good player...but he isn't the best we have...

I would go out on a limb and say that POM has consistently been Irelands best player over the last 2 seasons.

ME-109 wrote:Who Dave Kearney? He is a good player...but he isn't the best we have...

He will be very close in time .... and I still say he'll be drifting more infield (centre) than staying on the wing as his career progresses (if his coaches have any idea where his real strengths are, that is).

ME-109 wrote:Who Dave Kearney? He is a good player...but he isn't the best we have...

Agreed Tommy Bowe is with Kearney close behind now.

Nachos Jones wrote:I would go out on a limb and say that POM has consistently been Irelands best player over the last 2 seasons.

Can't agree with that. For me it has to be Best (even though his formed dipped during last years 6 nations) or SOB, but it's all subjective.

The two eyed fan knows that this isn't how POM has played for Ireland in the past.  I was an arch-critic, and obviously unfairly so.  I thought POM was a two bit Tom Croft impersonator who hid out in the backs looking for the big carries.  And he didn't do it very well.  The criticism was well merited from those of us outside Munster who saw he was not the same animal in green as he was in red.  However, against France last season he showed in the tight he could be excellent and he was Ireland's best player, despite RTE's inexplicable decision to make Murray MOTM.  

POM is the defining microcosm of the difference between Kidney's Ireland and Joe Schmidt's Ireland.  A clear game plan, players playing to their strengths.  Balance in the backrow and second row, players who compliment each other even if they aren't individually world class operators.  What is perhaps the most interesting thing from the Six Nations so far is that Schmidt has already produced two far more Munsteresque displays than Kidney himself ever did for Ireland.  Long may it continue.

In fact I'm coming back and adding this line or two in here two. Andrew Trimble is now joint-microcosm in this team. Kidney hadn't a clue how to use him, not a clue. He is a limited player, good at a handful of things and rather average at quite a few others. But Schmidt has identified how to play to his strengths and he now looks like a genuine international class player. I'd still pick Earls and Zebo if fit and firing in front of him, but a serious conversation is needed about whether Bowe automatically comes in in front of Trimble.

This raises an interesting point though - the back row has indeed looked very balanced, so where does this leave SOB? He would be the best irish player we have, but where does he fit into the equation when we now have good balance in the back row?

My thoughts would be to move him to 8 in the future, but Heaslip has been very good this season.

I clearly remember that last 6N for Ireland was a shambles but 1 player walked away from every match he played with credit and that was POM. SOB is arguably the best player Ireland have but he has some very off games, POM is consistently performing. His runs, defence and work at the rucks is simply astonishing. No better player in this 6N so far (Lawes and Vunipola come close).

Rory, it's a great problem to have and no doubt someone is gonna be unhappy when they're all fit. The thing is, each person in the Backrow knows their job and knows the game plan set by Schmidt, we looked so disjointed under Kidney. Our Backrow was great against the All Blacks with SOB starring, so we know he can fit into this unit. The selection could boil down to what Schmidt thinks we need on the particular day, which combination Will serve us best.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:The two eyed fan knows that this isn't how POM has played for Ireland in the past. I was an arch-critic, and obviously unfairly so. I thought POM was a two bit Tom Croft impersonator who hid out in the backs looking for the big carries. And he didn't do it very well. The criticism was well merited from those of us outside Munster who saw he was not the same animal in green as he was in red.

A player needs exposure to International before they become natural Internationals. Some of them have the exposure and never get there...others do - eventually. But expecting POM to shoot out of the blocks, all guns blazing and be the same player in green as he was in Red from the off is a little too much expectancy pressure put on a young player.

This last week saw many Ulster fans suggest Marshall shouldn't have been dropped for D'arcy after his game against Scotland. Some of the rest of us said, yeah, Marshall is getting there bit by bit but for this big important game against the Champions it's better to let D'arcy back in.

Same argument. Ulster fans see all that is good in Marshall - others see a lot of good but still some honing to be done. A player developing nicely as an International... but not fully there yet.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:This raises an interesting point though - the back row has indeed looked very balanced, so where does this leave SOB?  He would be the best irish player we have, but where does he fit into the equation when we now have good balance in the back row?

My thoughts would be to move him to 8 in the future, but Heaslip has been very good this season.

How long have I, you and others been bleating about balance in the backrow Rory? The best players do not always make up the best unit. Henry, POM and Heaslip were all mentioned in various teams of the week last round of the championship depending on the publication. All three have been outstanding. POM has been the most noticeable of the three, but Heaslip and Henry have been more than able supporting actors. People go on about the "unseen work" that players do. Its a nonsensical notion. Henry, Heaslip and POM have been outstanding at the dirty, unfashionable work. The thing is you see them doing it. Unseen work is just an excuse for one eyed fans to praise a player they rate when there is no evidence of them actually doing anything on the pitch.

Who do you drop for SOB? He is Ireland's best player without a shadow of a doubt. By a distance as well. Whoever drops out would have every right to be bitterly disappointed. I have no answer to it and you could make a case for all three of the current incumbents to retain their places.

POM was a bit of a headless chicken last year. Plenty of huff and puff but fairly ineffective. His focus seems to have improved a lot.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:This raises an interesting point though - the back row has indeed looked very balanced, so where does this leave SOB?  He would be the best irish player we have, but where does he fit into the equation when we now have good balance in the back row?

My thoughts would be to move him to 8 in the future, but Heaslip has been very good this season.

It's called rotation Rory. No need for these games of which player should outstep another...we're building a rotating squad nicely..where the players that come off the bench will be expected to do as good a job as the guys on from a start...and when they start, they'll be expected to work like dogs until their take off point. At least I hope that's how Schmidt sees our future.