Wales v Italy

First topic message reminder :

Should be announced soon, just making a preliminary thread. I think the squad picks itself, doubt Warbs will start.

Wales Online predict -

Probable Wales team: L Halfpenny; A Cuthbert, J Roberts, S Williams, G North; R Priestland, M Phillips; P James, R Hibbard, A Jones; AW Jones, L Charteris; D Lydiate, J Tipuric, T Faletau



Actual Wales team

Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues); Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), George North (Northampton Saints); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro); Paul James (Bath), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, capt), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Toby Faletau (NG Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Andrew Coombs (NG Dragons), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), James Hook (Perpignan), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

I'm still struggling to find the Italian team lineup...

Right, found this

Michele Rizzo  
Leonardo Ghiraldini  
Martin Castrogiovanni
Quintin Geldenhuys
Marco Bortolami
Alessandro Zanni  
Mauro Bergamasco
Sergio Parisse  
Edoardo Gori  
Tommy Allan
Leonardo Sarto
Alberto Sgarbi  
Michele Campagnaro
Angelo Esposito
Luke McLean
Davide Giazzon  
Alberto De Marchi    
Lorenzo Cittadini  
Joshua Furno      
Francesco Minto    
Tobias Botes  
Luciano Orquera    
Tomasso Iannone

ScarletSpiderman wrote:LD - no issue with him of late that I have not had with him in the past (please feel free to look back at old posts).  He is not a KID he is 25.  Yes when fit he is a good player, when unfit he should not be in the team.  I have said it before with numerous other players IF your an not fit enough to start you are not fit enough to bench, a bench player could be required to come on from the first minute of the game, so fitness is key.

As for the WRUburton, apologies if it offends any one, I would have no issues with explaining it to him, and if he is as down to earth as he is meant to be then he would take it with a pinch of salt in the good nature it was intended (much like Rob McGog does, and that could be seen as boarderline racist/regionalist)

WRUburton does not offend me in the slightest, not one jot, what is boiling my pee though, is the fact that people are accusing him of chasing the money and being disloyal, if anybody else had the offers put in front of them that he had, and he wanted to stay in Wales, and the disputed offers to stay in Wales was 200 grand from the Blues or 270 grand from the WRU, I wonder which deal they would have taken, he has only done what was right for HIMSELF, not what was right for the likes of you or me or anybody else for that matter.

1/2p has chased the money why isn't anyone knocking him?

I can see no issue with the use of WRuburton.

Did he not just sign for the WRU for the next two years past the RWC?

If anyone takes offence with the terminology please explain.

i expect Wales to win by two tries plus . no disrespect to Italy but there is a gap in class and if Wales turn it on then there is only one out come .

Biltong wrote:I can see no issue with the use of WRuburton.

Did he not just sign for the WRU for the next two years past the RWC?

If anyone takes offence with the terminology please explain.

I don't get it either Bil, I really wish someone would explain why it offends them, otherwise I won't know whether to use it on the next player to sell their soul to the WRU.   

i think WRUburton quite witty . dont blame the guy one bit .hes captain he has to lead by example . lets hope more follow suit . TipWRUic na doesn't work

Scrumpy, I think you should try and stop baiting people, I can see exactly what you are trying to do and nobody seems to be rising to it, so can we all please get back to the article and talk about Wales V Italy.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i think WRUburton quite witty . dont blame the guy one bit .hes captain he has to lead by example . lets hope more follow suit . TipWRUic        na doesn't work

Spot on, I think we need to be careful of over reacting, if Scrumpy or SS were anti welsh I could understand the sentiment, but in this case I hardly think the use of it warrants offence.

But that is just me.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:LD - no issue with him of late that I have not had with him in the past (please feel free to look back at old posts).  He is not a KID he is 25.  Yes when fit he is a good player, when unfit he should not be in the team.  I have said it before with numerous other players IF your an not fit enough to start you are not fit enough to bench, a bench player could be required to come on from the first minute of the game, so fitness is key.

As for the WRUburton, apologies if it offends any one, I would have no issues with explaining it to him, and if he is as down to earth as he is meant to be then he would take it with a pinch of salt in the good nature it was intended (much like Rob McGog does, and that could be seen as boarderline racist/regionalist)

WRUburton does not offend me in the slightest, not one jot, what is boiling my pee though, is the fact that people are accusing him of chasing the money and being disloyal, if anybody else had the offers put in front of them that he had, and he wanted to stay in Wales, and the disputed offers to stay in Wales was 200 grand from the Blues or 270 grand from the WRU, I wonder which deal they would have taken, he has only done what was right for HIMSELF, not what was right for the likes of you or me or anybody else for that matter.

Lord D
You are naïve if you think this is just about chasing the money, it directly affects other players i.e. in this case Tipuric as he is the obvious competitor to Warbs Welsh jersey. Its also about transparency after all it is very much the Welsh public who are paying his yearly salary.... what does he have to do for his money as opposed to the alternative offers, what are the other incentives i.e. follow up contracts, links with industry or the WRU when his career finishes, working hours.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i think WRUburton quite witty . dont blame the guy one bit .hes captain he has to lead by example . lets hope more follow suit . TipWRUic        na doesn't work

What about Allyn WRUyn Jones.   

flyhalffactory wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:LD - no issue with him of late that I have not had with him in the past (please feel free to look back at old posts).  He is not a KID he is 25.  Yes when fit he is a good player, when unfit he should not be in the team.  I have said it before with numerous other players IF your an not fit enough to start you are not fit enough to bench, a bench player could be required to come on from the first minute of the game, so fitness is key.

As for the WRUburton, apologies if it offends any one, I would have no issues with explaining it to him, and if he is as down to earth as he is meant to be then he would take it with a pinch of salt in the good nature it was intended (much like Rob McGog does, and that could be seen as boarderline racist/regionalist)

WRUburton does not offend me in the slightest, not one jot, what is boiling my pee though, is the fact that people are accusing him of chasing the money and being disloyal, if anybody else had the offers put in front of them that he had, and he wanted to stay in Wales, and the disputed offers to stay in Wales was 200 grand from the Blues or 270 grand from the WRU, I wonder which deal they would have taken, he has only done what was right for HIMSELF, not what was right for the likes of you or me or anybody else for that matter.

Lord D
You are naïve if you think this is just about chasing the money, it directly affects other players i.e. in this case Tipuric as he is the obvious competitor to Warbs Welsh jersey. Its also about transparency after all it is very much the Welsh public who are paying his yearly salary.... what does he have to do for his money as opposed to the alternative offers, what are the other incentives i.e. follow up contracts, links with industry or the WRU when his career finishes, working hours.

The difference is 70 grand, it does not matter where the money is comming from, and the fact that he has got a central contract should not cause Tuperic to miss out on Welsh honours, if he is playing better then he plays, he will always be picked for the Welsh squad anyway, and even when Warburton did not have a central contract if he was fit, he was getting picked infront of Tuperic in the first pace rightly or wrongly, but ask yourself, would you leave 70 grand go begging ?

LordDowlais wrote:Scrumpy, I think you should try and stop baiting people, I can see exactly what you are trying to do and nobody seems to be rising to it, so can we all please get back to the article and talk about Wales V Italy.

When have I tried to bait anyone?

Stop singling out the English guy for heavens sake!

I did ask will the roof be open or shut but no one answered, If I was Italy I'd want it open all week.

Scrumpy wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Scrumpy, I think you should try and stop baiting people, I can see exactly what you are trying to do and nobody seems to be rising to it, so can we all please get back to the article and talk about Wales V Italy.

When have I tried to bait anyone?

Stop singling out the English guy for heavens sake!

I did ask will the roof be open or shut but no one answered, If I was Italy I'd want it open all week.

You know what you are doing.

LordDowlais wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i think WRUburton quite witty . dont blame the guy one bit .hes captain he has to lead by example . lets hope more follow suit . TipWRUic        na doesn't work

What about Allyn WRUyn Jones.   

That would have to be Alun RRWyn Jones, but it just does got correctly. Anyway, apologies to anyone who did take offence, no issues with the man himself or his decision regarding his future, I am disappointed with how things have been handled (put my grievances down on the thread about him signing).

Anyway back to topic, can't really see past a decent welsh win, we have a squad named that is only really missing one or two names from being a 'fully fit' and 'on their day' side we would want to field against the SH superpowers. That said the Italians are going to make us have to earn the win, and I have a feeling it will be tight of r a good 60-70 mins.

I haven't the foggiest what you're on about LD?   

Scrumpy wrote:I haven't the foggiest what you're on about LD?   

Then lets just leave it and talk about Wales V Italy then.  

Really like that side, will br good to see how that backrow goes as not think they have played together as a unit yet.

I am surprised to see Warburton on the bench if he's fit for bench then in my mind he's fit to start what happens for argument sake if one of the backrow get injured in first couple of minutes he would then have to play nearly full game.

Am guessing Coombs or Warburton will be No8 cover.

So maybe its best not to accuse fans of baiting LD when they aren't.
 
 
I'm getting more stick than WRU£urton!   

LordDowlais wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:LD - no issue with him of late that I have not had with him in the past (please feel free to look back at old posts).  He is not a KID he is 25.  Yes when fit he is a good player, when unfit he should not be in the team.  I have said it before with numerous other players IF your an not fit enough to start you are not fit enough to bench, a bench player could be required to come on from the first minute of the game, so fitness is key.

As for the WRUburton, apologies if it offends any one, I would have no issues with explaining it to him, and if he is as down to earth as he is meant to be then he would take it with a pinch of salt in the good nature it was intended (much like Rob McGog does, and that could be seen as boarderline racist/regionalist)

WRUburton does not offend me in the slightest, not one jot, what is boiling my pee though, is the fact that people are accusing him of chasing the money and being disloyal, if anybody else had the offers put in front of them that he had, and he wanted to stay in Wales, and the disputed offers to stay in Wales was 200 grand from the Blues or 270 grand from the WRU, I wonder which deal they would have taken, he has only done what was right for HIMSELF, not what was right for the likes of you or me or anybody else for that matter.

Lord D
You are naïve if you think this is just about chasing the money, it directly affects other players i.e. in this case Tipuric as he is the obvious competitor to Warbs Welsh jersey. Its also about transparency after all it is very much the Welsh public who are paying his yearly salary.... what does he have to do for his money as opposed to the alternative offers, what are the other incentives i.e. follow up contracts, links with industry or the WRU when his career finishes, working hours.

The difference is 70 grand, it does not matter where the money is comming from, and the fact that he has got a central contract should not cause Tuperic to miss out on Welsh honours, if he is playing better then he plays, he will always be picked for the Welsh squad anyway, and even when Warburton did not have a central contract if he was fit, he was getting picked infront of Tuperic in the first pace rightly or wrongly, but ask yourself, would you leave 70 grand go begging ?

As I said its not the money to any particular player, we would all want the most money. But its simple economics Welsh rugby has only so much of a pot and its very much to do with two discrete points..... firstly public money hence public accountability (as opposed to say a French clubs paying him a salary), and secondly by Warbs taking a central contract then the likes of Tipuric might have less support from the WRU and be forced even further to ply his trade outside of Wales.

This is not a personal attack on a player as for myself I think an on form Warburton is a shoe-in for most teams in rugby and was the right choice as captain for Wales and the Lions. Its also not an attack on central contracts as I have my own views on this type of commercial contract. Its about the right of the welsh paying public to voice an opinion on a welsh paying public activity, which you don't appear to think they should have during the 6Ns

I think Wales will win big here. It's a very strong team Wales are putting out and I can't see Italy coping. The only real danger to Wales is complacency, but I can't see Gatland and his coaching team allowing that to sneak in, not where there's such a significant record on the line for this Championship. A strong start against Italy will be important to establishing momentum for the Ireland game.

On Warburton, presumably the options in front of hims were (a) earn less and stay with the Blues on a much reduced salarly, (b) earn more but stay in Wales and remain playing for the Blues, or (c) earn even more and move to France, turning his back on Welsh domestic rugby.

I personally don't see the disloyalty. However, there are perfectly valid questions around the precedent set, particularly how a centrally contracted player will be treated by the national set-up when compared to non-centrally contracted players, but with a top class coaching team like Gatland and Edwards, I'm sure they'll manage.

Maybe I'm missing something.

I think that this is a stronger side that Wales have put out than they would have without their injuries. We have all been saying for years now that Paul James should start in front of Gethin Jenkins and a second row of AWJ and Luke Charteris for me is the best pairing we have, the general consensus is that Tuperic is playing better than Warburton, before his injury anyway and Scott Williams is more than an able deputy for John Davis, so therefore I would be extremely disappointed if we lost on Saturday and if we can tire their forwards out by the hour mark I think it could become messy for the Italians, I just hope that we do not get dragged into an arm wrestle with them because if they sense a victory with twenty minutes to go they could cause a whole world of problems for us. My prediction, Wales by 15 to 20.

If the roof is open then I think it will be a mud wrestle rather than an arm wrestle, Italy have nothing to lose which is when they are at their best.

LordDowlais wrote:I think that this is a stronger side that Wales have put out than they would have without their injuries. We have all been saying for years now that Paul James should start in front of Gethin Jenkins and a second row of AWJ and Luke Charteris for me is the best pairing we have, the general consensus is that Tuperic is playing better than Warburton, before his injury anyway and Scott Williams is more than an able deputy for John Davis, so therefore I would be extremely disappointed if we lost on Saturday and if we can tire their forwards out by the hour mark I think it could become messy for the Italians, I just hope that we do not get dragged into an arm wrestle with them because if they sense a victory with twenty minutes to go they could cause a whole world of problems for us. My prediction, Wales by 15 to 20.

Totally agree with regards the strength being arguably stronger than a fully fit 'first' team. Would love to see us win by that much but I have a feeling that we will end up winning by two scores, probably either 8 or 10, and sealing it in the last ten to fifteen minutes. If this was the second or third game in, I would have been more confident, but they just worry me as first up. I think I would have preferred England or France, so that we could be the team who go into it trying to prove something rather than facing a banana skin.

Scrumpy wrote:If the roof is open then I think it will be a mud wrestle rather than an arm wrestle, Italy have nothing to lose which is when they are at their best.

                   lets be fair . Italy always have  nothing to lose but lose they do . tight first half . rampant Wales second half

Scrumpy wrote:If the roof is open then I think it will be a mud wrestle rather than an arm wrestle, Italy have nothing to lose which is when they are at their best.

I'd close the roof if at all possible. Whilst I think Wales will win regardless, a mudbath would serve as a leveller of sorts.

Still, I think Wales will win by 20 points. Too much firepower in the backs.

Italy did alright in their 1st game last year.
 
Italy  23–18  France I seem to remember.

But they don't travel too well, I'll give you that.

If we were playing Italy away then I would agree with you SS, but we are at home, the weather for Saturday is going to be one of the worst days for a while so I have been told, so it will not suit us or Italy to have the roof open, so my guess would be a closed roof stadium and an electric atmosphere to boot, I think Halfpenny will kick about 15 to 20 points and we will get about two tries, so I make it at least 25 points for us and about 8 to 11 for Italy.

Scrumpy wrote:Italy did alright in their 1st game last year.
 
Italy  23–18  France I seem to remember.

But they don't travel too well, I'll give you that.

that was a good game . only England they not beaten isn't it

Not yet, but I still respect them and don't expect an easy free scoring ride in Rome.

Very very strong team.
The front 5 looks really good, i ave all the faith in Adam even though some have knocked him of late. Big powerful ball carrying pack which is nice to see.
Hope Dan and Justin have big games as they will both need it. Tipuric has to make it impossible to allow Gatland to drop him, that means he needs his best game in the welsh jersey.
I understand Priestland being picked because his attacking game of ate has been very good. Dan might miss out but I think Gatland might do what he did in the Autumn and swap them around again.

Bench is ok but it still amazes me how Gatland is the only man not to see that Samson is the future of our scrum. I understand he likes the mobility of Rhodri but what happens if Adam is off after 10 minutes injured, the Azzuri pride themselves on their scrum and rightfully so.
Shame Jake Ball isn't on the bench but it will take time and i'm sure he will sooner or later.
Would have liked to seen Rhys start as well but we all knew Gatland was going to stick to his guns with Mike. He needs to play good though

But I have been and always will be wary of the Italian backlash, we've seen they can win big so I hope it will be a tight game

Scrumpy wrote:Not yet, but I still respect them and don't expect an easy free scoring ride in Rome.

The English rugby team and commentators certainly disrespected them last 6 nations and were nearly left with egg all over their face.


But anyway - yes Italy are much improved but I don't see us disrespecting them - our team selection shows that.

In other brilliant news, JD2 is being released to play for the Turks this weekend - could we see him in Ireland ?

Scrumpy wrote:Not yet, but I still respect them and don't expect an easy free scoring ride in Rome.

last game to win the tournament . wouldn't you fancy it  

munkian wrote:In other brilliant news, JD2 is being released to play for the Turks this weekend - could we see him in Ireland ?

As with other players, don't put him into the national side unless he is 100%. Careers are short, and rushing people back from injury with no game time is unfair on them and the rest of the team. And is another W on the table worth risking another injury?

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Not yet, but I still respect them and don't expect an easy free scoring ride in Rome.

            last game to win the tournament . wouldn't you fancy it  

Yep, but its 3 of the previous 4 games I don't, unless our backs start to play ball.

Oh I agree, no need to rush him back, especially if Doc and Great Scot do well

Scrumpy wrote:

munkian wrote:

No9 wrote:Strong side... to be honest, I don't think there's any surprises here.

However, is this side capable of putting 20+ points on the Italians. I'm not trying to down play the Italians, but this game could be crucial to Wales' 3rd title hopes.

I think most of us, believe deep down that Wales wont get a Slam, which means we believe we will slip up and lose one game (at least). That being the case, it could be down to points difference. And as England have Italy last, they should know what they have to do by then.

So we have to put Italy to the sword big time, and get a heft points difference now, as it will be more difficult to chase points later on.

Why aim to just put Italy to the sword ? And so what if England have Italy last ? They have to go to Rome and have only beaten Italy by little more than a score there over the past couple of visits

 
As an English and rugby fan the days of Italy being regarded as whipping boys is a little disrespectful imo.  

There was no disrespect with my comment, as I suspect you know... I'm just pointing out, that to take a record 3 titles in a row, we have to build up a points difference, because we know how important that can be in the end. After all, we have fallen foul of points difference several times in the past.

But to continue (and to respond to Munkian), I'm not saying we should only target Italy, but if you look at past records, team form then any team would target the greater points difference against Italy, rather than Ireland, France, England or Scotland.

However, come to think about it... Last year our biggest points difference was against England, so perhaps we should consider putting England to the sword and gain the bigger points margin... Yep... take that one as disrespectful if you want..   

LordDowlais wrote:I think that this is a stronger side that Wales have put out than they would have without their injuries. We have all been saying for years now that Paul James should start in front of Gethin Jenkins and a second row of AWJ and Luke Charteris for me is the best pairing we have, the general consensus is that Tuperic is playing better than Warburton, before his injury anyway and Scott Williams is more than an able deputy for John Davis, so therefore I would be extremely disappointed if we lost on Saturday and if we can tire their forwards out by the hour mark I think it could become messy for the Italians, I just hope that we do not get dragged into an arm wrestle with them because if they sense a victory with twenty minutes to go they could cause a whole world of problems for us. My prediction, Wales by 15 to 20.

Spot on LD, I endorse everything you say including the points win Wales by 20.
Probably would have had Biggar on the bench instead of Hook, with Liam Williams, covering FB/Wing and the possibility of North covering midfield if required

When do the Italians name their team?

I'm not sure, I've been looking around for it and will update the thread soon as I find it

munkian wrote:I'm not sure, I've been looking around for it and will update the thread soon as I find it

Cheers. I was thinking we are all making predictions but we could be thrown a real curve ball, like Parrise at fly half or something.

Christ, is Lancaster coaching them ?

Scrumpy wrote:Not yet, but I still respect them and don't expect an easy free scoring ride in Rome.

And I wouldn't expect you, or any England fan to expect that in Rome after the scare they gave you in Twickenham last season. England played awful in that game, and it provided the foundations for a nice hammering from Wales the following week.

If there was a lock on the bench who would that be?
With Evans and Davies not available would 5th choice be ... Ryan jones?
I don't think it's that controversial to not have one on the subs bench.

The welsh public only love buggar when he's not selected.

As I stated earlier I don't think that's our best team at the moment. With injuries and players just coming back from injury, plus the limited capabilities of other players I would have went with this:
Halfpenny, Cuthbert, North, Roberts, L.Williams, Biggar, Webb - Faletau, Tipuric, Coombes, AWJ, Charteris, A.Jones, Hibbard, James.
Bench: Owens, Rh.Jones, Lee, Ball, Warburton, Phillips, Priestland, Hook.

There is a lock. Coombs is a lock and has been doing just fine in a misfiring front five (especially in the derbies).

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:If there was a lock on the bench who would that be?
With Evans and Davies not available would 5th choice be ... Ryan jones?
I don't think it's that controversial to not have one on the subs bench.

The welsh public only love buggar when he's not selected.

Jake Ball, big physical 22 year old, a bit like a slightly more bulky version of a young Alun Wyn Jones.

Italy are still the whipping boys. It's just England who struggle to beat them and Ireland who can't beat them.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:If there was a lock on the bench who would that be?
With Evans and Davies not available would 5th choice be ... Ryan jones?
I don't think it's that controversial to not have one on the subs bench.

The welsh public only love buggar when he's not selected.

Jake Ball of the Scarlets.
No, it would be Andrew Coombes, Ryan Jones is injured and should never be used as a lock at international level again (see the game he started against England with Deniol Jones.....).
We have Coombes on the bench, who plays at lock or blind-side, and has done both at international level to a good standard.

Don't know what you're talking about, but it's clear and obvious they despise Priestland (who I have been an advocator of). I've never been a Biggar fan but he's the best available right now. I thought RP had a terrible game against Harlequins.

Oh and France!

Oh but we don't know which France will turn up this year! I can take a guess that it will either be the rubbish France or the really rubbish France.

Coombs is on bench and Ball is in squad for other games.