Scotland v England, Murrayfield, Sat 8th Feb, 17:00

by yappysnap Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:32 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start a thread to discuss next weeks game.

ENGLAND

England head coach Stuart Lancaster has kept faith with the side which lost to France and named an unchanged line-up for Saturday's match against Scotland.
Gloucester's Jonny May starts on the wing despite breaking his nose nine minutes into the 26-24 loss in Paris.
Courtney Lawes will be in the second row after his cheekbone bruising eased, while Danny Care and Owen Farrell form the half-back partnership.
"They're determined to put last week's result behind them," said Lancaster.
England will be hoping to avoid a third successive Test defeat, having lost to New Zealand in the autumn and France in the opening weekend of the Six Nations.
Scotland, however, were well beaten by Ireland on Sunday have not prevailed in the Calcutta Cup since their 15-9 win at Murrayfield in 2008.
"Scotland will be hugely motivated by their defeat in Dublin and, as we found two years ago, Murrayfield is a tough place to play," added Lancaster, who began his England reign with a 13-6 win against Scotland in 2012.
May is not expected to wear a protective face mask when he wins his third cap in Edinburgh.
Luther Burrell, who scored on his debut at the Stade de France, will make his second Test appearance at centre, while Jack Nowell takes up the right-wing spot for what will also be his second cap.
Wasps prop Matt Mullan will travel as the 24th man.

England XI v Scotland: Mike Brown (Harlequins, 22 caps), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 1 cap), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 2 caps), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 20 caps), Danny Care (Harlequins, 43 caps), Joe Marler (Harlequins, 16 caps), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 51 caps), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 44 caps), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 15 caps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 26 caps), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 24 caps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 21 caps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 6 caps)
Replacements: Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 11 caps), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks, 2 caps), Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 6 caps), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, 13 caps), Brad Barritt (Saracens, 17 caps), Alex Goode (Saracens, 14 caps)

Scotland

Scots team:

1.grant
2.ford
3.low
4.swinson
5.hamilton
6.wilson
7.fusaro
8.denton
9.laidlaw
10.weir
11.lamont
12.scott
13.dunbar
14.seymor
15 hogg

by 123456789 Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:50 pm

A mud bath would no longer favour Scotland, our "stodgy" forwards are pretty much useless now, Jim Hamilton, for example, is just a big angry man who swears a lot and gives away penalties, we might as well start with 14 men and 6-0 down. We have no openside flanker, at least not one that our esteemed "Dear Leader" (his new title, continuing his remarkable rise from Backs coach, to head coach, to Director of Rugby and now Supreme commander. All the more impressive given he has achieved nothing) Scott Johnson is prepared to pick, rather we pick a back row with two number eights and a blindside therefore penalties and turnovers, essential in a mud bath, are unlikely as our main tackler is also our only source of turnovers.

On the other hand decent conditions will allow our big ball carriers to come into the game and the likes of Hogg and Scott will be more likely to be able to attack.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:53 pm

Numbers - you da man indeedy doo ! Cool

by **BigGee** Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:59 am

The Herald this morning strongly hinting that Fusaro will play and KB will be dropped right out of the match day squad. I have to say that is how I read it after reading Humphries interview yesterday, though I would probably have retained him on the bench.

Maybe this is going to be a more radical re-shuffle than anyone imagines. You could hardly blame the selectors for doing it, a lot of them deserve it!

by **RDW** Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:03 am

Scotsman is also predicting the gray's will swap places on the bench.

Also suggesting SG will replace Maitland. Doh

by **BigGee** Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:11 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Scotsman is also predicting the gray's will swap places on the bench.

Also suggesting SG will replace Maitland.

Max actually was not to bad when he came on, it was good to see a full bloodied tackle from him, something he is not always known for. Hopefully that will free up a spot on the bench for Dougie Fyfe on the bench, that's probably not a bad way to win first cap.

The back row is likely to be Beattie-Denton-Fusaro, with Ryan Wilson on the bench

Second Row probably Swinson-Gray-Gray, though I am not sure in which combination.

by beshocked Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:26 am

Who are your big ball carriers 123456789? I know there's Denton but other than him?

If Brown does drop out, it's nice to see how Johnson treats the player he picked as captain.

Expect London Irish to feel the pain on the weekend.

by **BigGee** Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:45 am

beshocked wrote:Who are your big ball carriers 123456789? I know there's Denton but other than him?

If Brown does drop out, it's nice to see how Johnson treats the player he picked as captain.

Expect London Irish to feel the pain on the weekend.

Beattie carries well, a bit more heads up and less direct than Dents, but arguably more effective. Swinson and Gray x2 are also pretty effective as well in the more direct mode!

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:53 am

Beattie is probably the next best ball carrier after Denton. Brown has never been a great ball carrier, it's something he's worked on a fair bit in the last few years (rather like Strokosch).

Both locks (that is Richie Gray and Tim Swinson) are decent carriers, as is Ford at hooker.

I'm hoping to see Brown retained as captain, but moved to 6 to accommodate Chris Fusaro at 7. Then one of Denton or Beattie at 8, with the other on the bench. Done.

Swinson and Richie Gray at lock with young Jonny on the bench (or Gilchrist).

Same props as Sunday, with MacArthur replacing Ford.

Not too many changes - three new players coming into the pack in total - two of whom were on the bench in Dublin. That should be the right mix of continuity, given players a second chance, but drawing the line under others (Hamilton and Ford in particular).

To be clear, I make neither Ford nor Hamilton "scapegoats". Both have made fine contributions to Scottish rugby, and hopefully Ford has plenty more to give. But we just can't tolerate his poor technique at the set piece anymore, it's stalling the development of the team as the backs aren't getting good attacking ball, and similarly if Hamilton isn't going to be a stalwart of the set piece, then his work in the loose certainly isn't going to keep the jersey on his back.

I really hope SJ makes these changes.

In the backs it's more straightforward. Scott switches with Taylor and either Evans or Seymour replace the injured Maitland, with the other coming onto the bench.

What it should look like:

1.Grant 2.MacArthur 3.Low 4.Swinson 5.R Gray 6.Brown(c) 7.Fusaro 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Weir 11.S Lamont 12.Scott 13.Dunbar 14.Seymour 15.Hogg

16.Cross 17.Ford 18.Dickinson 19.J Gray 20.Beattie 21.Cusiter 22.Taylor 23.Evans

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:57 am

From the Herag:

Captain Brown to make way for new boy

by Alasdair Reid

Chris Fusaro, the 24-year-old Glasgow Warriors flanker, looks set to make his international debut for Scotland in Saturday's Calcutta Cup match with England at Murrayfield.

Herald Sport understands that Fusaro, who has been close to selection on a number of previous occasions, is being lined up to take the openside place of the captain Kelly Brown, who is likely to drop out of the matchday squad altogether. The shock move comes in the wake of the Scots' 28-6 defeat by Ireland in Dublin last Sunday, a performance variously described by the forwards coach Jonathan Humphreys as "awful", "dreadful" and "a shambles".

Earlier this season, the interim head coach Scott Johnson suggested the 5ft 11in Fusaro, who weighs in at just under 15st, lacked the bulk needed to compete in the heavy traffic of international rugby. However, it appears that his combination of pace, stamina and ball-winning skills have counted in his favour after Ireland exposed Scotland's weaknesses in contact.

If it comes to pass, the selection of Fusaro is one of three changes that are likely to be made to the starting line-up that ran out against Ireland. With Sean Maitland ruled out by an ankle injury - further assessment yesterday revealed soft tissue damage that will not require surgery but will put him out of the game for up to eight weeks - Tommy Seymour looks set to be given a place on the wing ahead of Max Evans, who came on as a substitute in Dublin, while Matt Scott is expected to resume his customary place at inside centre, taking the No.12 shirt back from Duncan Taylor.

Sources have also suggested that a couple of significant changes are to be made on the bench. It is understood that Newcastle Falcons hooker Scott Lawson has been preferred to Glasgow's Pat MacArthur, and that Jonny Gray could oust his brother Richie to cover the second-row positions.

Scrum-half Greig Laidlaw, who was criticised in some quarters for his service in the game against Ireland, is expected to retain his position in the starting XV, as is his half-back partner Duncan Weir. Glasgow's Chris Cusiter looked sharp when he took over from Laidlaw in Dublin, but the latter's goalkicking abilities appear to be indispensable at the moment.

Although the weather forecast for Saturday afternoon is less severe than that which was being predicted earlier in the week, an attritional contest is still expected, not least on account of the condition of the Murrayfield pitch. With that in mind, goal-kicking accuracy could turn out to be as critical as it has been in other recent games against England.

Oh my feicin god, it gets worse. Fusaro for Brown so at least we have an openside is good, but don't see why Brown - 6 drops out althogether; with his experience at 6,7 & 8 surely he's made for the bench even if this nonsense of 2 no8s continues instead of a proper blindside flanker. Not sure what Hamilton did to keep his slot - Gray did'nt make much of an impact coming on, but young Gray or Gilchrist could have replaced Big 'Past It/Maybe never had it' Jim. Keeping Ford is nothing short of a disgrace. Laidlaw is one lucky boy that the collective wisdom seems to be that we need his kicking skills - personally I'm not convinced, when his slow distribution is causing too much damage. I give in

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:59 am

What it will likely look like:

1.Grant 2.Ford 3.Low 4.Swinson 5.Hamilton 6.Wilson 7.Fusaro 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Weir 11.S Lamont 12.Scott 13.Dunbar 14.Seymour 15.Hogg

16.Lawson 17.Cross 18.Dickinson 19.J Gray 20.Beattie 21.Cusiter 22.Taylor 23.Evans

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:02 am

I really hope that match report is wrong. Sounds like mostly the wrong people are set to lose their places.

Keeping Wilson at 6 is just draft, keeping Ford at 2 would be an utter disgrace (and dropping MacArthur altogether really stupid) and I'm at a total loss as to why Hamilton stays but Richie Gray gets dropped!!

I would on the other hand keep Laidlaw. Weir's kicking is too erratic to be trusted. I appreciate that Laidlaw's service wasn't great on Sunday, but he can and has played better. He's a big match player and I'd back him to come good.

That report has me depressed!

by munkian Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:09 am

Ah come on, you're used to it by now, surely ? Wink

by **BigGee** Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:10 am

What is keeping Hamilton in the team, is it the business about line out calling. If that is the case then it really has got to be sorted out. We have got to get our best players onto the park and RG is definitely one of those. It is almost unbelievable that no-one thought this might become a problem and did something about it!

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:19 am

If Ford keeps his place it ranks up with mistakes akin to :

A man coming off a plane in 1939 after a meeting in Munich with a certain German Dictator claiming peace in our time.

The captain of Titanic deciding to cane it through an Ice Field.

Or the selection of SCW to lead a Lions tour.

I have been one of Ford's biggest fans but to have him keeping his place is inexcusable. He cost us 2 tries from 2 set piece turnovers against Ireland.

As a pro his performance should be measured on the technical requirements of his position. He failed impressively at the weekend.

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:20 am

If Hamilton is keeping his place because of his lineout calling then lord help us.

Did anyone notice how the lineout went on Sunday?

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:28 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:If Ford keeps his place it ranks up with mistakes akin to :

A man coming off a plane in 1939 after a meeting in Munich with a certain German Dictator claiming peace in our time.

The captain of Titanic deciding to cane it through an Ice Field.

Or the selection of SCW to lead a Lions tour.

Don't joke. It's too soon.

by beshocked Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:28 am

FES those selections of yours are very sensible. Perhaps you should be Scotland coach instead of Johnson.

As to what the Scottish papers are saying about the Scottish side. I am pleased with those selections as an England and Sarries fan - means Brown gets to vent his frustation on London Irish, England get to attack the Scottish lineout and backrow.

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 am

It's really great when the opposition fans are happy with your team selection!!

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:37 am

for me my team for England :

1. Grant
2. MacArthur
3. Lowe
4. Swinson
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. Denton

9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Seymore
12. Scott
13. Dunbar
14. Tonks
15. Hogg

16.Lawson 17.Cross 18.Dickinson 19.J Gray 20.Beattie 21.Cusiter 22.Taylor 23. Evans

Lamont just too damn slow for an international class winger. He got tackled from behind by the irish pensioner on Sunday.

by yappysnap Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:51 am

OP updated with the England team thumbsup

Excited for this game now. Looking at the actual number of caps there it helps to put the close loss to France in a little more context. Yes there were selection and tactical problems but it's a very young team (the youngest in the comp) and a very inexperienced team (the least caps in the comp) so to have only lost due to our own mistakes is impressive, if very annoying.

Starting backline has 98 caps between them Care is the most experienced with 43 caps
Starting pack has 193 caps between them, Hartley on a massive 51 caps (also our only over 50).

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:59 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:for me my team for England :

1. Grant
2. MacArthur
3. Lowe
4. Swinson
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. Denton

9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Seymore
12. Scott
13. Dunbar
14. Tonks
15. Hogg

16.Lawson 17.Cross 18.Dickinson 19.J Gray 20.Beattie 21.Cusiter 22.Taylor 23. Evans

Lamont just too damn slow for an international class winger. He got tackled from behind by the irish pensioner on Sunday.

As much as we'd like something similiar, it's not going to happen. By all accounts, Ford's still in there.

Would swap Tonks for Evans with Fife on the bench instead and Brown with Beattie

by yappysnap Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:14 am

Oh and there's this amusing story as well...

Former Scotland and British Lions star Peter Wright has told the Daily Mail the Calcutta Cup match could become farcical if the worst predictions about the state of the Murrayfield pitch turn out to be true.

Although the SRU yesterday announced it would be investing in a new hybrid surface over the summer, that will not help the current situation. With rain forecast in Edinburgh this weekend to add to the groundsman's problems, Wright said the easily cut-up surface could become a quagmire.

"I hope I'm wrong but I do have concerns that the state of the pitch will have a big influence over who wins the match," he told the newspaper. "Just say the score is tight with 10 minutes left and the pitch has cut up so badly it's impossible to keep your feet in the scrum.

"Such an important game could then be decided by a player losing his footing at the set-piece and giving away a penalty. That shouldn't be the way a team wins a Six Nations match."

He said the choice of stud would be vital, especially for the forwards. "If they pick a stud that's too small that could lessen their grip; if they chose one that's too big their foot could stick in the dirt and cause injury.

"If a player loses his footing once, he'll be conscious of it happening again and that could lead to a bit of a farce with players not wanting to try anything too fancy.

"My advice to the forwards would be to not to move their foot much in the scrum, make sure the scrum is stable and keep things steady. The backs also have to watch when they side-step and not get their foot stuck in a divot. I'm concerned that a heavy, cut-up pitch will lead to not much decent rugby being played which would be a shame."

Former England lock Ben Kay was of a similar mind. He said England's pack prefer a straight pushing contest "but if you can't get traction because the pitch is cutting up, you have a problem. If you think of England's defeats at Murrayfield they were often on wet, muddy pitches.

"Power runners don't have the contact with the ground to break through and the players with skill don't have the same confidence underfoot. England won't use it as an excuse but they would prefer a fast, firm track."

by Duty281 Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:16 am

Pleased with England's team selection - hope they respond well after last Saturday. The first twenty minutes will be the toughest!

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:18 am

yappysnap wrote:OP updated with the England team

Excited for this game now. Looking at the actual number of caps there it helps to put the close loss to France in a little more context. Yes there were selection and tactical problems but it's a very young team (the youngest in the comp) and a very inexperienced team (the least caps in the comp) so to have only lost due to our own mistakes is impressive, if very annoying.

Starting backline has 98 caps between them Care is the most experienced with 43 caps
Starting pack has 193 caps between them, Hartley on a massive 51 caps (also our only over 50).

Id rather have a winning team than one we have excuses for why they loose.

On the plus side forthis game we now have the pitch as well as inexperience.

All the same Im bemused as to why people deem it a success that England are having to call up starting players straight from the under 20s. Meanwhile we have no real reserve fly half and the only reserve flankers are Kvesic and Johnson.

This is the big squad for thew world cup. Whoopey.

by beshocked Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:25 am

You're absolutely right PSW. Things start looking a bit bleaker in the backrow if Robshaw and Wood get injured. I suppose Billy could move to 6 and Morgan to 8. Giving us two monster ball carriers in the backrow if Wood gets injured. Does mess with the balance a bit but it could work.

by WELL-PAST-IT Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:31 am

yappysnap wrote:Well- Past-It, at club level I agree with all of that about Dickson. Unfortunately at Int level i've seen none of it and I think it's been proven over the AI's and last weekends game that for England to have any attacking threat there must be pace at 9. That is more important then anything else while we have Farrell and a hodge podge midfield.

Dickson replaced Care in the 62nd minute, did England go to pot then, no they carried on with the same game keeping the French in their third of the pitch. It could be argued that in the last 20 minutes you do not want a hot head (respectfully meant) like Care who will often tap and go when you actually need to pick up the three points on offer. Dickson is not a flair player but he does give quick ball, marshals the forwards better than anyone else and is defensively sound. He has managed to keep one of the worlds best regarded 9s out of the team for large parts of the season so far in Kahn Fotuali'i. Just because a player platys the game simple and you like to see runners not passers, does not mean that the player is not suitable to England's style, just not what you want to see. He has 13 caps now and I have failed to see him have a bad game. He played well in the AI, especially in the AB game where we only collapsed after he was taken off for the out of form Youngs

Having said that, I agree that Dickson would be behind an in form Youngs, problem is we do not have one, he is so out of form and confidence that he is struggling at AP level. The last thing he needs is to come on as a replacement and cost England a try, that would completely shatter him. Youngs on his day is a s goods as any 9 in the world.

So we are left with Dickson or Wigglesworth.

Saints do not have a 7th best player in the AP in any position outside their 3rd side. furious

Goode still there, when will SL ever learn, when he comes on at FB he weakens the side, if he comes on as a replacement anywhere else, he is a liability and forces the whole shape of the side to change to it's detriment. furious

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:34 am

beshocked wrote:You're absolutely right PSW. Things start looking a bit bleaker in the backrow if Robshaw and Wood get injured. I suppose Billy could move to 6 and Morgan to 8. Giving us two monster ball carriers in the backrow if Wood gets injured. Does mess with the balance a bit but it could work.

You could always move Launchbury or Lawes into the back row, or maybe even Dylan Hartley. That's what Scotland would do.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:36 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Well- Past-It, at club level I agree with all of that about Dickson. Unfortunately at Int level i've seen none of it and I think it's been proven over the AI's and last weekends game that for England to have any attacking threat there must be pace at 9. That is more important then anything else while we have Farrell and a hodge podge midfield.

Dickson replaced Care in the 62nd minute, did England go to pot then, no they carried on with the same game keeping the French in their third of the pitch. It could be argued that in the last 20 minutes you do not want a hot head (respectfully meant) like Care who will often tap and go when you actually need to pick up the three points on offer.

Its not just his tap and go
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/danny-care-apologises-for-yellow-card-380729

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:42 am

The scrum half I always want to see more of is Joe Simpson. He doesn't seem to have built on the huge promise he showed earlier in his career, but he's lightening quick on the break.

Still, he's only 25. Plenty more to come from him.

by beshocked Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:45 am

"Saints do not have a 7th best player in the AP in any position outside their 3rd side."

Well past it what about Elliott?

He is rated behind Varndell,Sharples,Ashton,Watson,Nowell,Yarde and Wade and May in the England pecking order. Should be behind Strettle and could also be behind Banahan and Cueto in Lancaster's eyes.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:48 am

beshocked wrote:"Saints do not have a 7th best player in the AP in any position outside their 3rd side."

Well past it what about Elliott?

He is rated behind Varndell,Sharples,Ashton,Watson,Nowell,Yarde and Wade and May in the England pecking order. Should be behind Strettle and could also be behind Banahan and Cueto in Lancaster's eyes.

Monye is still a Saxon too.

by beshocked Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:54 am

True PSW. I quite like Elliott. Think he's underrated. I don't think he's rated at all by the England coaches though.

You also have wingers like Charlie Walker and Miles Benjamin who are probably rated higher too.

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:58 am

...and Adam Thompstone.

You know what though, England do have a lot of wingers to choose from, all of whom could probably run the 100 metres in half the time it would take Sean Lamont.

by Chjw131 Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:01 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
beshocked wrote:You're absolutely right PSW. Things start looking a bit bleaker in the backrow if Robshaw and Wood get injured. I suppose Billy could move to 6 and Morgan to 8. Giving us two monster ball carriers in the backrow if Wood gets injured. Does mess with the balance a bit but it could work.

You could always move Launchbury or Lawes into the back row, or maybe even Dylan Hartley. That's what Scotland would do.

I think that's exactly what would happen FES. If Robshaw or Wood were injured we'd see 4. D Attwood 5. C Lawes 6. J Launchbury 7. T Wood 8. B Vunipola - Launchbury's work-rate is eye-watering and his error rate is world class. Lawes has already proved he probably shouldn't play at 6!

The alternative would be either TJ, Kvesic or Haskell into the BS/OS spot. I'd be happy enough for Hask to come in at 6. Dickinson went very well for the Saxons and has made himself 3rd choice No.8 but I don't think playing Billy V and Morgan in the same backrow is a good shout. Not enough work-rate.

by lostinwales Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:01 pm

I know the pitch and conditions for the Saxons game wasnt exactly the best, but Thompstone didnt look the part at all.

by Chjw131 Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:02 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:The scrum half I always want to see more of is Joe Simpson. He doesn't seem to have built on the huge promise he showed earlier in his career, but he's lightening quick on the break.

Still, he's only 25. Plenty more to come from him.

I think Simpson will be quickly deposed by Robson as 4/5th choice SH.

by Chjw131 Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:03 pm

lostinwales wrote:I know the pitch and conditions for the Saxons game wasnt exactly the best, but Thompstone didnt look the part at all.

It was a poor game and he butchered one chance and turned the ball over two or three times. I've seen him play far better for Tigers. I think Benjamin should be ahead of him though.

I actually wouldn't mind Banners being rehabilitated. He offers 12/13 and wing cover. He can also kick well now.

by lostinwales Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:04 pm

Chjw131 wrote:...
The alternative would be either TJ, Kvesic or Haskell into the BS/OS spot. I'd be happy enough for Hask to come in at 6. Dickinson went very well for the Saxons and has made himself 3rd choice No.8 but I don't think playing Billy V and Morgan in the same backrow is a good shout. Not enough work-rate.

Is the brand in any kind of form? good call if he is.

Billy V at 6 isnt ideal but there dont seem to be any issues with his work rate at the moment

by Chjw131 Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:05 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:...
The alternative would be either TJ, Kvesic or Haskell into the BS/OS spot. I'd be happy enough for Hask to come in at 6. Dickinson went very well for the Saxons and has made himself 3rd choice No.8 but I don't think playing Billy V and Morgan in the same backrow is a good shout. Not enough work-rate.

Is the brand in any kind of form? good call if he is.

Billy V at 6 isnt ideal but there dont seem to be any issues with his work rate at the moment

Agree his work-rate has improved but it's not in the same areas as a Wood/Robshaw/Launchbury and those guys are absolutely key to the way we play. If Fearns can get some more time at 6 or, heaven forbid Garvey were actually recognised that wouldn't be a bad back-up if Hask was out of form.

by ChequeredJersey Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:07 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Well- Past-It, at club level I agree with all of that about Dickson. Unfortunately at Int level i've seen none of it and I think it's been proven over the AI's and last weekends game that for England to have any attacking threat there must be pace at 9. That is more important then anything else while we have Farrell and a hodge podge midfield.

Dickson replaced Care in the 62nd minute, did England go to pot then, no they carried on with the same game keeping the French in their third of the pitch. It could be argued that in the last 20 minutes you do not want a hot head (respectfully meant) like Care who will often tap and go when you actually need to pick up the three points on offer.

Its not just his tap and go
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/danny-care-apologises-for-yellow-card-380729

Ah yes, the kind of thing that nobody would mature out of over 4 years

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:11 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Well- Past-It, at club level I agree with all of that about Dickson. Unfortunately at Int level i've seen none of it and I think it's been proven over the AI's and last weekends game that for England to have any attacking threat there must be pace at 9. That is more important then anything else while we have Farrell and a hodge podge midfield.

Dickson replaced Care in the 62nd minute, did England go to pot then, no they carried on with the same game keeping the French in their third of the pitch. It could be argued that in the last 20 minutes you do not want a hot head (respectfully meant) like Care who will often tap and go when you actually need to pick up the three points on offer.

Its not just his tap and go
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/danny-care-apologises-for-yellow-card-380729

Ah yes, the kind of thing that nobody would mature out of over 4 years

He was still peeing in public a couple of years ago

by ChequeredJersey Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:12 pm

Good point, but on the pitch he's been a good boy! And the dressing down he got after the drunkeness seems to have matured him a lot

by EnglishReign Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:13 pm

Good side again. They did well in Paris and hopefully won't be forced into an early back 3 change again.

Forecast doesn't look too bad either.

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:16 pm

Don't worry. There's still time for us to drive a combine harvester across the pitch before Saturday and select 15 forwards.....

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:16 pm

To be fair we were having a go at him for taking a drop goal now we are having a pop that he might go for a try.

England have had a problem with players losing their heads late on in games the last few years. Whether its Robshaw wasting 5 minutes making the wrong decisions as to whether to go for a goal or a try or Vunipola getting himself carded within 30 seconds of coming onto the pitch or Lawes handing the ball to Scott Williams; England seem to be the masters of their own downfall. Its quite refreshing to see them doing it both ends of the game for a change Doh

by ChequeredJersey Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:19 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Don't worry. There's still time for us to drive a combine harvester across the pitch before Saturday and select 15 forwards.....

Will any of them be competent Hookers or breakdown players?

by funnyExiledScot Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:21 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Don't worry. There's still time for us to drive a combine harvester across the pitch before Saturday and select 15 forwards.....

Will any of them be competent Hookers or breakdown players?

Don't be ridiculous. They will all be number 8s.

by jimbopip Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:30 pm

Ok assuming Rab C doesn't put out another experimental, or just plain mental, side here's what I think would be a sensible XV
1. Grant, although needs to do more in the loose than last week
2. MacArthur, or Lawson but not repeat not Ford.
3. Welsh, may not be in the squad but should be. If not then Low.
4. Swinson, one of the few who escaped with any credit from Dublin.
5. J Gray, elder Gray on bench; outsprinted by an Irish prop indeed!
6. Play a blindside. Strokes will do.
7. Play an openside. Fusaro will do
8. Wilson. Beattie on bench.
9. Cusiter Too many box kicks from Laidlaw
10 Weir
11 Seymour
12 Taylor
13 Dunbar
14 Fife though we'll probably see Evans.
15 Hogg

16 Dickinson 17 Lawson/MacArthur 18 Cross 19 R Gray 20 Beattie/Wilson 21 Laidlaw 22 Heathcoat 23 Scott

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:35 pm

Jimbo.....Taylor?

Englands backs are pretty cack by their usual standards and if Scotland by some miracle do win some ball, then surely Scott would do more damage?

by WELL-PAST-IT Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:39 pm

beshocked wrote:"Saints do not have a 7th best player in the AP in any position outside their 3rd side."

Well past it what about Elliott?

He is rated behind Varndell,Sharples,Ashton,Watson,Nowell,Yarde and Wade and May in the England pecking order. Should be behind Strettle and could also be behind Banahan and Cueto in Lancaster's eyes.

BS, it was tongue in cheek with rose tinted glasses, you of all people should know about them. I could argue that you have both left and right wings shown plus a fullback and on current form I would rate him above Varndell and Sharples. As you have so frequently stated, what does Lancaster know about form and ability. Elliot is in the Saxons, Banahan, Strettle and Cueto are not.

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