Scotland v England, Murrayfield, Sat 8th Feb, 17:00

England head coach Stuart Lancaster has kept faith with the side which lost to France and named an unchanged line-up for Saturday's match against Scotland.
Gloucester's Jonny May starts on the wing despite breaking his nose nine minutes into the 26-24 loss in Paris.
Courtney Lawes will be in the second row after his cheekbone bruising eased, while Danny Care and Owen Farrell form the half-back partnership.
"They're determined to put last week's result behind them," said Lancaster.
England will be hoping to avoid a third successive Test defeat, having lost to New Zealand in the autumn and France in the opening weekend of the Six Nations.
Scotland, however, were well beaten by Ireland on Sunday have not prevailed in the Calcutta Cup since their 15-9 win at Murrayfield in 2008.
"Scotland will be hugely motivated by their defeat in Dublin and, as we found two years ago, Murrayfield is a tough place to play," added Lancaster, who began his England reign with a 13-6 win against Scotland in 2012.
May is not expected to wear a protective face mask when he wins his third cap in Edinburgh.
Luther Burrell, who scored on his debut at the Stade de France, will make his second Test appearance at centre, while Jack Nowell takes up the right-wing spot for what will also be his second cap.
Wasps prop Matt Mullan will travel as the 24th man.

England XI v Scotland: Mike Brown (Harlequins, 22 caps), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 1 cap), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 2 caps), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 20 caps), Danny Care (Harlequins, 43 caps), Joe Marler (Harlequins, 16 caps), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 51 caps), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 44 caps), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 15 caps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 26 caps), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 24 caps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 21 caps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 6 caps)
Replacements: Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 11 caps), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks, 2 caps), Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 6 caps), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, 13 caps), Brad Barritt (Saracens, 17 caps), Alex Goode (Saracens, 14 caps)

Chjw131 wrote:

BigGee wrote:I am willing to give the benefit to Ryan Wilson, who has continuously impressed for Glasgow as a heads up rugby player. Yes KB and AS may well be better defensively but they don't offer anything like the same threat going forward, which ultimately is where we need to be going. He is not a show pony number 8, who can't play a full 80 mins in the way that Morgan and Vinapolo are, albeit very effective whilst they are on. He has a very good work rate and on that basis should be able to play 8 or 6. Other than the specialist 7's, most modern day back rows can do both positions. He gives some pretty good lineout options as well if they can manage to hit him.

Ryan Wilson is a very good player and is at the beginning of his international career. He is definitely someone from last weekend who does deserve a second chance, unlike a few others who have been lashing it up for years!

Whenever i've caught him play Wilson has looked pretty good at 8. The clear choice was to move Brown to 6 and Wilson to 8 with Denton on the bench. Johnson hasn't a clue about man management that's for sure. Destroying Brown's confidence is not the way to get the best from him. I think he could've gone really well against us there, with several of his Sarries colleagues in the opposing pack.

Bit harsh on Morgan and BV, neither I would say are 'show-ponies'. They're both hard carrying 8's and BV's work-rate has gone through the roof. It's questionable either could go the full 80 but neither have been given the chance. It also doesn't seem to be that necessary with either one covering on the bench.

Hamilton who is about as mobile as a life sized Lego re-enactment of Mount Rushmore.

BigGee wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

BigGee wrote:I am willing to give the benefit to Ryan Wilson, who has continuously impressed for Glasgow as a heads up rugby player. Yes KB and AS may well be better defensively but they don't offer anything like the same threat going forward, which ultimately is where we need to be going. He is not a show pony number 8, who can't play a full 80 mins in the way that Morgan and Vinapolo are, albeit very effective whilst they are on. He has a very good work rate and on that basis should be able to play 8 or 6. Other than the specialist 7's, most modern day back rows can do both positions. He gives some pretty good lineout options as well if they can manage to hit him.

Ryan Wilson is a very good player and is at the beginning of his international career. He is definitely someone from last weekend who does deserve a second chance, unlike a few others who have been lashing it up for years!

Whenever i've caught him play Wilson has looked pretty good at 8. The clear choice was to move Brown to 6 and Wilson to 8 with Denton on the bench. Johnson hasn't a clue about man management that's for sure. Destroying Brown's confidence is not the way to get the best from him. I think he could've gone really well against us there, with several of his Sarries colleagues in the opposing pack.

Bit harsh on Morgan and BV, neither I would say are 'show-ponies'. They're both hard carrying 8's and BV's work-rate has gone through the roof. It's questionable either could go the full 80 but neither have been given the chance. It also doesn't seem to be that necessary with either one covering on the bench.

Don't get me wrong, I am not down on the two of them as players. They do what they do extremely well. The point I am making is that they are out and out No.8's, whereas I think Ryan Wilson has a bit more flexibility and could play as a blind side as well. The English pack is very very strong and will batter Scotland if it is allowed to. I am not sure that they have been tested internationally against another pack that will come at them just as hard, South Africa springs to mind. BV is still young though, he will continue to improve if he stays injury free. He is likely to be England's number 8 for a long time!

GLove39 wrote:Wonderful post IanBru   Feeling perked up now.
Oi GC

Hamilton who is about as mobile as a life sized Lego re-enactment of Mount Rushmore.

I'll have you know that Lego is very mobile. As anyone who tunes into BBC 2 around 7ish tomorrow night will confirm!

Chjw131 wrote:

BigGee wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

BigGee wrote:I am willing to give the benefit to Ryan Wilson, who has continuously impressed for Glasgow as a heads up rugby player. Yes KB and AS may well be better defensively but they don't offer anything like the same threat going forward, which ultimately is where we need to be going. He is not a show pony number 8, who can't play a full 80 mins in the way that Morgan and Vinapolo are, albeit very effective whilst they are on. He has a very good work rate and on that basis should be able to play 8 or 6. Other than the specialist 7's, most modern day back rows can do both positions. He gives some pretty good lineout options as well if they can manage to hit him.

Ryan Wilson is a very good player and is at the beginning of his international career. He is definitely someone from last weekend who does deserve a second chance, unlike a few others who have been lashing it up for years!

Whenever i've caught him play Wilson has looked pretty good at 8. The clear choice was to move Brown to 6 and Wilson to 8 with Denton on the bench. Johnson hasn't a clue about man management that's for sure. Destroying Brown's confidence is not the way to get the best from him. I think he could've gone really well against us there, with several of his Sarries colleagues in the opposing pack.

Bit harsh on Morgan and BV, neither I would say are 'show-ponies'. They're both hard carrying 8's and BV's work-rate has gone through the roof. It's questionable either could go the full 80 but neither have been given the chance. It also doesn't seem to be that necessary with either one covering on the bench.

Don't get me wrong, I am not down on the two of them as players. They do what they do extremely well. The point I am making is that they are out and out No.8's, whereas I think Ryan Wilson has a bit more flexibility and could play as a blind side as well. The English pack is very very strong and will batter Scotland if it is allowed to. I am not sure that they have been tested internationally against another pack that will come at them just as hard, South Africa springs to mind. BV is still young though, he will continue to improve if he stays injury free. He is likely to be England's number 8 for a long time!

Agree, it was said back in the Autumn that whilst there was a lot of talk around the pack being world-beaters they haven't faced the man-test yet. I still think there's areas that need improving. But at present it's the best we could put out bar Corbisiero.

I actually think Scotland will be pretty fired-up for this one. A poor performance against Ireland should be enough incentive. I just think they'd go better with a fired-up Brown at 6.

We have to hope that Hartley doesn't get injured early on. I like Tom Youngs' general play but his throwing has reverted to being sub-international standard. With Ford we could see two hookers, neither of who can hit their targets.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

BigGee wrote:I am willing to give the benefit to Ryan Wilson, who has continuously impressed for Glasgow as a heads up rugby player. Yes KB and AS may well be better defensively but they don't offer anything like the same threat going forward, which ultimately is where we need to be going. He is not a show pony number 8, who can't play a full 80 mins in the way that Morgan and Vinapolo are, albeit very effective whilst they are on. He has a very good work rate and on that basis should be able to play 8 or 6. Other than the specialist 7's, most modern day back rows can do both positions. He gives some pretty good lineout options as well if they can manage to hit him.

Ryan Wilson is a very good player and is at the beginning of his international career. He is definitely someone from last weekend who does deserve a second chance, unlike a few others who have been lashing it up for years!

Well let's just hope we don't have much defending to do on Saturday, which I'm sure will be the case....

I don't mean to do down Wilson at all. He's an excellent prospect at number 8, a nice balance of ball carrying and general workrate. He can clearly "do a job" at 6, but I'd rather have a specialist personally, particularly given that we have two very good and experienced specialists fit and available (including the captain....).

Had SJ dropped Denton for Wilson, I'd have had more sympathy for the selection.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Regardless of anything Flower of Scotland is one of the most ear wrenching anthems of all time. My mams Scottish and even she hates it.

Closely followed by GSTQ

GeordieFalcon wrote:Regardless of anything Flower of Scotland is one of the most ear wrenching anthems of all time. My mams Scottish and even she hates it.

Closely followed by GSTQ

jelly wrote:Why would any nation on earth have a national anthem, the title of which is the capital city of another country?

Jerusalem was an old left wing rant about capitalism.

munkian wrote:Or sing a slave song....

gregortree wrote:

jelly wrote:Why would any nation on earth have a national anthem, the title of which is the capital city of another country?

Jerusalem was an old left wing rant about capitalism.

Never realised the WI was a commie front. Nor that William Blake was Marx's mentor.

The phrase "dark Satanic Mills", which entered the English language from this poem, is often interpreted as referring to the early Industrial Revolution and its destruction of nature and human relationships.[8]

This view has been linked to the fate of the Albion Flour Mills, which was the first major factory in London. Designed by John Rennie and Samuel Wyatt, it was built on land purchased by Wyatt in Southwark. This rotary steam-powered flour mill by Matthew Boulton and James Watt used grinding gears by Rennie[9] to produce 6000 bushels of flour a week.

The factory could have driven independent traditional millers out of business, but it was destroyed in 1791 by fire, perhaps deliberately. London's independent millers celebrated with placards reading, "Success to the mills of ALBION but no Albion Mills."[10] Opponents referred to the factory as satanic, and accused its owners of adulterating flour and using cheap imports at the expense of British producers. A contemporary illustration of the fire shows a devil squatting on the building.[11] The mills were a short distance from Blake's home.

Blake's phrase resonates with a wider theme in his works, what he envisioned as a physically and spiritually repressive ideology based on a quantifiable reality. Blake saw the cotton mills and collieries of the period as a mechanism for the enslavement of millions, but the concepts underpinning the works had a wider application

Scrumpy wrote:

munkian wrote:Or sing a slave song....

Now that is a great tune.

munkian wrote:

gregortree wrote:

jelly wrote:Why would any nation on earth have a national anthem, the title of which is the capital city of another country?

Jerusalem was an old left wing rant about capitalism.

Never realised the WI was a commie front. Nor that William Blake was Marx's mentor.

Its an interpretation of the lyrics -

The phrase "dark Satanic Mills", which entered the English language from this poem, is often interpreted as referring to the early Industrial Revolution and its destruction of nature and human relationships.[8]

This view has been linked to the fate of the Albion Flour Mills, which was the first major factory in London. Designed by John Rennie and Samuel Wyatt, it was built on land purchased by Wyatt in Southwark. This rotary steam-powered flour mill by Matthew Boulton and James Watt used grinding gears by Rennie[9] to produce 6000 bushels of flour a week.

The factory could have driven independent traditional millers out of business, but it was destroyed in 1791 by fire, perhaps deliberately. London's independent millers celebrated with placards reading, "Success to the mills of ALBION but no Albion Mills."[10] Opponents referred to the factory as satanic, and accused its owners of adulterating flour and using cheap imports at the expense of British producers. A contemporary illustration of the fire shows a devil squatting on the building.[11] The mills were a short distance from Blake's home.

Blake's phrase resonates with a wider theme in his works, what he envisioned as a physically and spiritually repressive ideology based on a quantifiable reality. Blake saw the cotton mills and collieries of the period as a mechanism for the enslavement of millions, but the concepts underpinning the works had a wider application

gregortree wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Regardless of anything Flower of Scotland is one of the most ear wrenching anthems of all time. My mams Scottish and even she hates it.

Closely followed by GSTQ

Both are dull dull dirges. Instead:

Jerusalem stirs, it wonders, and it mentions the 'E' word but not in a bad way.

And for Scotland how about this Burns poem set to a stirring tune (needs some suitable music):

Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory;
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name,
Sae fam'd in martial story.
Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England's province stands-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

Chjw131 wrote:It's Land of Hope and Glory for me. Plus we shouldn't even be singing GSTQ it's the UK national anthem. Not that Scotland will be part of that for much longer...

tigertattie wrote:

gregortree wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Regardless of anything Flower of Scotland is one of the most ear wrenching anthems of all time. My mams Scottish and even she hates it.

Ah, this tune already exists.  It's another corries one.  It's another dirge.

On sat we shall sing flower of Scotland to the tune from keystone cops, it's far more fitting I say!

Steeleye Span did it  before the Corries. Needs a jazzy time signature makeover and bingo !

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:It's Land of Hope and Glory for me. Plus we shouldn't even be singing GSTQ it's the UK national anthem. Not that Scotland will be part of that for much longer...

not smart to bring that up....

I'm not a Moderator or anything but I would seriously consider editing that post.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:lets have the full version of GSTQ

"Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid, Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the Queen".

Probably the best way to wind up the Scottish XXIII pre game.

After all fairs fair:

"Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again

The hills are bare now
And autumn leaves lie thick and still
O'er land that is lost now
Which those so dearly held
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again"


what's good to the goose is good for the gander.

Fails to remember that the Scots were virtually annihilated by Wade and their leaders hung drawn and quartered.

Perhaps we should give the England side a history lesson to let them know what is expected of them, you can bet the Scots will, or will it be about Botany Bay and the cruel English abusing convicts.

gregortree wrote:  Do you think we   will be sent home to think again ?

gregortree wrote:Looks like the anthems will be the best bit then, which is not saying much, but then I'd better shut up on the songs. Nobody wants to discuss the actual rugby. Munk... who you supportin' ?

munkian wrote:I love how people think that Flower of Scotland is English hating. Its about a small Scottish force seeing off invaders and conquerors....Whilst THAT verse of GSTQ is about crushing civilians of a conquered country

beshocked wrote:chjw131 you could be more contraversial if you mentioned this verse that you used to be in GSTQ/GSTK.

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.

To be honest that verse has as much place as the jingoistic Flower of Scotland. I feel that neither should be used anymore.

I would like to see England use Jerusalem or I vow to thee my country even though the IRB think they have the right to steal the tune.

beshocked wrote:Chequeredjersey the IRB have ripped off I Vow to thee my country/ plus the tune from Holst's Jupiter to make their shoddy world of Union. Can't say that pleases me.

Sorry well past it didn't see you already mentioned the rebellious scots verse.  

Oh and Edward II was a weakling. Probably the weakest and worst monarch of England. Allegedly he was killed with a red hot poker.....