England vs Ireland

by adambarney Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:06 am

First topic message reminder :

Could be game of the six nations what do you think?

by beshocked Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:05 pm

Notch we have beaten Australia and NZ in the last two seasons. We have beaten Ireland the last two times. Have finished higher than Ireland in the last two 6 nations. Are a higher ranked side.

England are the better side albeit not by much. We simply win more matches and are more consistent.

Depends what you mean by good - England are generally a competitive side who win most of their games.

You call France a poor side - based on what exactly? They thumped Italy with ease. Plus France are ranked higher than Ireland, they did beat a pretty good English side.

England deserve respect because they are generally not an easy side to beat plus we are a higher ranked side than Ireland and deservedly so.

Equally I could say why should we fear Ireland? Okay you performed very well vs New Zealand but you lost. That's the one performance that should make England wary. Winning two matches at home in this 6 nations does not make Ireland world beaters.

Certainly doesn't make you a shoo in to win a tough away game vs England.

In these kind of matches the home team is the favourite - England are at home.

England are deservedly 4th in the world as one of the more consistent sides in the 6 nations and have shown an ability to beat at least two of the big three SH sides in the last two years.

by quinsforever Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:06 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
quinsforever wrote:i got that. but it doesnt account for lucky bounces, quality of opposition, weather, etc etc. it's a bit blunt is all.

i think its going to be a great game. just hope it's clean. dont want any red mist affecting the final score.

Do you reckon Lawes, Farrell and Hartley will be left on the bench?

haha. if healey is there too that should stop the worst of it.

by bluestonevedder Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:09 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast. We will look to put pressure on the England back three who are defensively an obvious weakness for England in particular Brown, Goode and Nowell who often look lost in defense. I hope Goode is selected, please please please.

How can Nowell "often look lost in defence"? He has 2 caps!

And if you are taking Brown at FB as a defensive liability, or someone to kick at in any way, good luck to you

Nowell's defensive stats have been exceptional. Positioning against France might have been an issue when they did crossfield kicks, but he always made the tackle. I think his defence is currently his best attribute. The only thing that he's really lacking is attacking awareness- when to seek contact, when to offload, when to go to ground, when to pass. I think that's pretty common for most people in their first few caps mind, let alone when they are 20 years of age! His metres made against the French were also excellent- the most of any winger in the opening weekend if I'm not mistaken?

Goode I give you, does occasionally look lost in defence. Mainly lost in working out where to tackle the player.

by ChequeredJersey Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:09 pm

quinsforever wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
quinsforever wrote:i got that. but it doesnt account for lucky bounces, quality of opposition, weather, etc etc. it's a bit blunt is all.

i think its going to be a great game. just hope it's clean. dont want any red mist affecting the final score.

Do you reckon Lawes, Farrell and Hartley will be left on the bench?
haha. if healey is there too that should stop the worst of it.

Guns should be careful here as this could really really open up a can of nematodes

by GloriousEmpire Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:10 pm

Nowell was rounded twice by French attackers. He was flat footed and had no idea what he should be doing. The knock ons, the tackle in the air, wasteful kicking the ball away. The guy isn't international standard. England should identify that and move on for both of their benefit.

by GunsGerms Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:11 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast. We will look to put pressure on the England back three who are defensively an obvious weakness for England in particular Brown, Goode and Nowell who often look lost in defense. I hope Goode is selected, please please please.

How can Nowell "often look lost in defence"? He has 2 caps!

And if you are taking Brown at FB as a defensive liability, or someone to kick at in any way, good luck to you

In the two tests he played he often looked lost in defense.

Brown was at fault for one of Huget's tries and could have done better for Fickou's try as technically Fickou was him man but Goode was out of position too.

Brown's defense was also weak enough last campaign. Most of Englands tries conceded come through the back three.

by Scrumpy Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:11 pm

Nowell is doing fine for a 20 year old in his 2nd game for his Country.

by quinsforever Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:13 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast. We will look to put pressure on the England back three who are defensively an obvious weakness for England in particular Brown, Goode and Nowell who often look lost in defense. I hope Goode is selected, please please please.

i really hope he isnt. please please please.

by GunsGerms Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:14 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
quinsforever wrote:i got that. but it doesnt account for lucky bounces, quality of opposition, weather, etc etc. it's a bit blunt is all.

i think its going to be a great game. just hope it's clean. dont want any red mist affecting the final score.

Do you reckon Lawes, Farrell and Hartley will be left on the bench?
haha. if healey is there too that should stop the worst of it.

Guns should be careful here as this could really really open up a can of nematodes

Healy has two yellow cards in his whole international career and only one short ban in 44 tests. Just because one of them was v England doesnt make him a liability. He gets fouled way more than he gets involved in anything like that.

Dicipline has massively improved under Schmidt. Very few penalties conceded in our last three games.

by beshocked Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:15 pm

Got to stick with Nowell throughout the 6 nations now. Scrumpy I agree - given the circumstances he's doing alright.

Gloriousempire I agree that Nowell made errors but I feel that you are being overly harsh. Very harsh to say he is not international standard based on two games.

by **rodders** Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:16 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast.

No chance, we'll be booting the ball to that wee fella Nowell for 80min and getting Kearney and Bowe/Trimble to climb all over him.

by bluestonevedder Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:17 pm

beshocked wrote:Got to stick with Nowell throughout the 6 nations now. Scrumpy I agree - given the circumstances he's doing alright.

Gloriousempire I agree that Nowell made errors but I feel that you are being overly harsh. Very harsh to say he is not international standard based on two games.

+1. He's an industrious winger, which is a welcome change of pace to England's game. Let the lad play. He looked a lot more comfortable against Scotland.

by quinsforever Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:18 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Nowell is doing fine for a 20 year old in his 2nd game for his Country.

agree. he looked a lot better against scotland too, irrespective of the opposition. communicated better with his teammates, wasnt as frantic as vs france (understandable tbh). he did make one big mistake - failing to spread to may when england had a big overlap, but, he put brown in the corner from the same passage of play so made up.

i think nowell is going to be very very hard to displace from the england team as he gets more matches. he hits the line with real pace and is freakishly strong. he's not a mazy runner like May, but he shows real intent and commitment. i'm thrilled to see him playing for england.

GE you are so so wrong about Nowell. and with each match he plays that becomes ever more apparent.

by GunsGerms Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:18 pm

Craig Joubert is the referee again which I'm not overjoyed about. He reffed the Ireland Scotland game and it was very stop start as a result. Lots of scrum resets which England will relish. In general he is a decent ref but I hope for a fast game.

by Scrumpy Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:19 pm

A lot of things being discussed here but I think we're all missing one thing, Darcy's beard!

What a thing of beauty!

Will that be at HQ?

by ChequeredJersey Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:19 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast. We will look to put pressure on the England back three who are defensively an obvious weakness for England in particular Brown, Goode and Nowell who often look lost in defense. I hope Goode is selected, please please please.

How can Nowell "often look lost in defence"? He has 2 caps!

And if you are taking Brown at FB as a defensive liability, or someone to kick at in any way, good luck to you

In the two tests he played he often looked lost in defense.

Brown was at fault for one of Huget's tries and could have done better for Fickou's try as technically Fickou was him man but Goode was out of position too.

Brown's defense was also weak enough last campaign. Most of Englands tries conceded come through the back three.

Ah yes. I forgot that defending at wing and FB were the same thing! Thanks for correcting me! If you are intending to create flukey bounce on a rugby ball then targeting Brown could be a strategy, otherwise, go right ahead...

Brown won't be playing wing. Nowell didn't look at all out of ease defensively against Scotland, partially because I'm not certain they ever made an attack?

As for the can of worms, who says I was referring to Healy?

by Duty281 Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:20 pm

Notch wrote:beshocked et al; why are we overconfident? Can you really honestly say you have a good team yet? We can't, we're still a work in progress. But England have to be the same; if they want to have any chance in their own World Cup they need to improve a great deal from the last two games. I expect they will, ultimately, but that improvement will take time.

Two mediocre sides meet, but at least we don't have any illusions over where we are in the great scheme of things. So far England have lost to a very poor France team and huffed and puffed against an abysmal Scottish team. They've shown glimpses of quality developed but the Irish coaching staff will also be looking at a whole lot of weaknesses that are on display for everyone to see, a whole lot of not having enough accuracy in the basics. Not that we are world beaters; Ireland have beaten the same Scottish team without ever really coming close to an impressive performance and tactically out-smarted an under performing Welsh team who have always been far short of the top sides in world rugby.

I don't see why either set of fans should be feeling particularly delighted with where their teams are, but Ireland fans should be very happy given we've improved a great deal form being an abysmal side this time last year- not that means we are where we want to be by a long shot but we're on an upward trajectory at least. I sense England are too, but right now they're scaring nobody.

Can anyone seriously explain why any side should be afraid of England? Respectful, always- but where does the fear factor come from? They look far from superhuman, far from the quality of the top international sides and we have a lot of players who are experienced at winning in England at both club and test level so there's no shortage of respect but also a great deal of justified confidence. Sure, we know we need to improve too but this game is really delicately poised, really closely matched. Feels like a lot of fans are massively overrating the home side. England are not a lesser side than Ireland, not worst than us- but they certainly aren't better either.

Probably because of that time that England beat New Zealand by seventeen points - the only team to beat NZ in a long while.

by quinsforever Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:21 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
quinsforever wrote:i got that. but it doesnt account for lucky bounces, quality of opposition, weather, etc etc. it's a bit blunt is all.

i think its going to be a great game. just hope it's clean. dont want any red mist affecting the final score.

Do you reckon Lawes, Farrell and Hartley will be left on the bench?
haha. if healey is there too that should stop the worst of it.

Guns should be careful here as this could really really open up a can of nematodes

Healy has two yellow cards in his whole international career and only one short ban in 44 tests. Just because one of them was v England doesnt make him a liability. He gets fouled way more than he gets involved in anything like that.

Dicipline has massively improved under Schmidt. Very few penalties conceded in our last three games.

the occasion did get the better of healy in that instance though. i distinctly remember Keith Wood saying ireland need to get him off the pitch if he cant calm down. no-one is saying he's a dirty player GG, just that he, like the names you mentioned, has the ability to lose control on occasion.

by SecretFly Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:22 pm

beshocked wrote:
Equally I could say why should we fear Ireland?

It doesn't matter though if you don't fear us or if we secretly fear you, beshocked.
If we lose, we'll have lost. If we win, we'll have won.
History over the last few years will have no part to play in deciding whether we should win or whether England has a right to win. No rights and no should'as. It's who wins and who loses.

by TJ Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:22 pm

I have just been watchingthe France England game again. I will put some comments on the game thread but the first french try was from a very asute kick seeing the space in the corner to go for the kick. the wing on that side was right up in the line and the FB central. I would call that a defensive mistake. However overall I thought Nowell brought something to the game missing from England - a winger with attacking threat.

by quinsforever Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:23 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast. We will look to put pressure on the England back three who are defensively an obvious weakness for England in particular Brown, Goode and Nowell who often look lost in defense. I hope Goode is selected, please please please.

How can Nowell "often look lost in defence"? He has 2 caps!

And if you are taking Brown at FB as a defensive liability, or someone to kick at in any way, good luck to you

In the two tests he played he often looked lost in defense.

Brown was at fault for one of Huget's tries and could have done better for Fickou's try as technically Fickou was him man but Goode was out of position too.

Brown's defense was also weak enough last campaign. Most of Englands tries conceded come through the back three.

Ah yes. I forgot that defending at wing and FB were the same thing! Thanks for correcting me! If you are intending to create flukey bounce on a rugby ball then targeting Brown could be a strategy, otherwise, go right ahead...

Brown won't be playing wing. Nowell didn't look at all out of ease defensively against Scotland, partially because I'm not certain they ever made an attack?

As for the can of worms, who says I was referring to Healy?

ROG is only on the bench these days... Run

by SecretFly Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:23 pm

Scrumpy wrote:A lot of things being discussed here but I think we're all missing one thing, Darcy's beard!

What a thing of beauty!

Will that be at HQ?

Ned Kelly reborn.

by quinsforever Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:A lot of things being discussed here but I think we're all missing one thing, Darcy's beard!

What a thing of beauty!

Will that be at HQ?

Ned Kelly reborn.

wasnt he australian?

by **Notch** Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:25 pm

beshocked wrote:England deserve respect because they are generally not an easy side to beat plus we are a higher ranked side than Ireland and deservedly so.

Equally I could say why should we fear Ireland? Okay you performed very well vs New Zealand but you lost. That's the one performance that should make England wary. Winning two matches at home in this 6 nations does not make Ireland world beaters.

Certainly doesn't make you a shoo in to win a tough away game vs England.

In these kind of matches the home team is the favourite - England are at home.

Literally all of these are points I have actually already made if you read what I have said. Haven't ever said England don't deserve respect. Also have argued that Ireland are world beaters, favourites or a shoo-in. You shouldn't fear us. We shouldn't- and don't- fear you either.

It's so frustrating when you don't actually read what I've said before responding...

by Scrumpy Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:26 pm

Nowell reminds me a bit of 1/2p, I think he'll get better and better being in this environment.

and no its not just the scrum cap!

by yappysnap Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:27 pm

Scrumpy wrote:A lot of things being discussed here but I think we're all missing one thing, Darcy's beard!

What a thing of beauty!

Will that be at HQ?

I hope it is! It's the best part of the 6N's so far.

I guess it all depends on how he gets on breathing through it between now and then. Any sloppy food and it could get a little dangerous...

by SecretFly Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:27 pm

quinsforever wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:A lot of things being discussed here but I think we're all missing one thing, Darcy's beard!

What a thing of beauty!

Will that be at HQ?

Ned Kelly reborn.
wasnt he australian?

Does race matter? It's a visual comparison.
Ned himself though, if you wanrt to get detailed on it, was of course Australian but you'd need to look through his history to realise just how Irish he was...and just how much it informed his notoriety.

by ChequeredJersey Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:28 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Nowell reminds me a bit of 1/2p, I think he'll get better and better being in this environment.

and no its not just the scrum cap!

The mistake creating an easy try for the opposition?

by GunsGerms Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:28 pm

quinsforever wrote:the occasion did get the better of healy in that instance though. i distinctly remember Keith Wood saying ireland need to get him off the pitch if he cant calm down. no-one is saying he's a dirty player GG, just that he, like the names you mentioned, has the ability to lose control on occasion.

In fairness to Healy the referee Jerome Garces chose to turn a blind eye to a catalogue of Dan Cole indescretions that day, maul collapses, illegal rucking and lying on the ball to name a few. I dont think he will get away with anything like that with Joubert as ref. This time round Ireland have decent cover for all positions in the forwards and Schmidt isnt afraid to sub. He took Paul O'Connell off after 60 mins v Wales because he wasnt getting around the park quick enough. He doesnt miss much.

Can you think of another time Healy has "lost control"?

by lostinwales Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:29 pm

All England back 3 can play FB (ha ha) All are good with the high ball. According to the stats on scrum.com Nowell made 10 tackles (1 missed) vs France, which is freakishly high for a winger (given that we are used to Ashton...) and only Wood made more

If Goode was there I'd be worried about the tackling but he is quite possibly better at taking high balls than the rest. As has been said though if Goode starts there might just be one or two muted and polite complaints.

I think if Ireland try the high ball/pressure routine onto England's back 3 they wont get any change at all.

by quinsforever Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:30 pm

SecretFly wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:A lot of things being discussed here but I think we're all missing one thing, Darcy's beard!

What a thing of beauty!

Will that be at HQ?

Ned Kelly reborn.
wasnt he australian?

Does race matter? It's a visual comparison.
Ned himself though, if you wanrt to get detailed on it, was of course Australian but you'd need to look through his history to realise just how Irish he was...and just how much it informed his notoriety.

assume you meant nationality? think you'll find race is caucasian whether he's australian or irish.

i like darcy's beard a lot. makes it much easier to spot him on the rugby pitch as i've always found that a bit tricky Run

by quinsforever Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:33 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
quinsforever wrote:the occasion did get the better of healy in that instance though. i distinctly remember Keith Wood saying ireland need to get him off the pitch if he cant calm down. no-one is saying he's a dirty player GG, just that he, like the names you mentioned, has the ability to lose control on occasion.

In fairness to Healy the referee Jerome Garces chose to turn a blind eye to a catalogue of Dan Cole indescretions that day, maul collapses, illegal rucking and lying on the ball to name a few. I dont think he will get away with anything like that with Joubert as ref. This time round Ireland have decent cover for all positions in the forwards and Schmidt isnt afraid to sub. He took Paul O'Connell off after 60 mins v Wales because he wasnt getting around the park quick enough. He doesnt miss much.

Can you think of another time Healy has "lost control"?

dont get upset gg. was just easing you.

on another note, i thought Garces officiating Sco v Eng was absolutely appalling. didnt favour one side over the other, but basically didnt blow the whistle at the breakdown at all. i think we'd both much rather joubert or barnes at the breakdown with both england and ireland currently favouring quick ball. thumbsup

by asoreleftshoulder Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:34 pm

quinsforever wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:A lot of things being discussed here but I think we're all missing one thing, Darcy's beard!

What a thing of beauty!

Will that be at HQ?

Ned Kelly reborn.
wasnt he australian?

He was an Aussie with an Irish accent if you believe the crap film made about him starring the Joker.

by Scrumpy Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:34 pm

Is it all beard or has he developed a double chin?

by **Notch** Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:37 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Probably because of that time that England beat New Zealand by seventeen points - the only team to beat NZ in a long while.

If you played like that in every test then you'd be a different proposition as a team, much further along the development curve. Unfortunately since then there have also been a lot of poor performances and a lot in between. It's silly to bring it up because it wasn't backed up in last years Six Nations and its even less relevant now. It proves England can play extremely well- but we also know they can play averagely and be beaten.

Honestly, you have to earn respect on the pitch and England have done that- but to earn fear, to be so far ahead of your opponents so as to be justified in being annoyed a side can even comprehend you as being beatable? Thats much harder. The All Blacks have it. Usain Bolt has it. Certain Brazil teams in the football over the years have had it. Englands rugby union side really, really, really don't have it. Sorry. You don't!

In the context of the Six Nations, England are as good a side as anyone. They can rightly be confident of beating anybody from the 6N at Twickenham including Ireland. But they also can be beaten by any of Wales, France and Ireland in the Six Nations at Twickenham. There's no major gulf between those sides that makes any result a foregone conclusion. Any game against those three home or away and both sides fans will rightly be confident their side can win.

All this faux-outrage over the fact other fans see England as beatable based on the two average performances they've turned in so far is silly. Ireland and England are two closely matched sides who are far off the genuine top class sides based on recent form. Whichever one plays better on the day will win and most people will predict it'll be by less than a score other way whether it ultimately is or isn't.

by GunsGerms Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:37 pm

quinsforever wrote:dont get upset gg. was just easing you.

on another note, i thought Garces officiating Sco v Eng was absolutely appalling. didnt favour one side over the other, but basically didnt blow the whistle at the breakdown at all. i think we'd both much rather joubert or barnes at the breakdown with both england and ireland currently favouring quick ball.

Im not upset, I enjoy feisty debate Quins.

by Hood83 Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:41 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:Nowell was rounded twice by French attackers. He was flat footed and had no idea what he should be doing. The knock ons, the tackle in the air, wasteful kicking the ball away. The guy isn't international standard. England should identify that and move on for both of their benefit.

Any preference or expectations as to who should replace him? Both now and should everyone be injury free?

by Scrumpy Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:42 pm

Why the title change?

by Barney McGrew did it Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:43 pm

I smile when Mike Brown doesn’t get all the respect he’s earned. The most under-rated player in test rugby, and the best FB in the NH. Picks up MotMs for fun. Keep ignoring him I say, and keep me smiling.

Mind you he’ll have to work a bit harder when he finds he has Goode and Burrell as his wingers.

Our current wingers are far too green yet to be judged, and will definitely be targeted - but keep watching.

by **Notch** Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:50 pm

Sorry for the temp. change of title. Accidentally clicked on title of post before I wrote my last post and it auto-filled the last thread title I edited over the original one. Didn't notice and hit send.

by Breadvan Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:55 pm

Freakin 2 weeks to the game and we're 6 pages in? lol..

Going to be an tight/immense game tho....

by GunsGerms Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:56 pm

Hood83 wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:Nowell was rounded twice by French attackers. He was flat footed and had no idea what he should be doing. The knock ons, the tackle in the air, wasteful kicking the ball away. The guy isn't international standard. England should identify that and move on for both of their benefit.

Any preference or expectations as to who should replace him? Both now and should everyone be injury free?

Goode or Ashton please.

by SecretFly Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:57 pm

quinsforever wrote: think you'll find race is caucasian whether he's australian or irish.

I think you'll find, quins, that whites, blacks and orientals are all genetic bothers and Caucasian means as little as Irish if we're going to get technical about it. But we all know the shorthand use of 'race' - as you certainly did when you made the clear distinction between caucasian D'arcy with a beard and an Australian caucasion with one. Wink

by GunsGerms Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:00 am

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I smile when Mike Brown doesn’t get all the respect he’s earned. The most under-rated player in test rugby, and the best FB in the NH. Picks up MotMs for fun. Keep ignoring him I say, and keep me smiling.

Mind you he’ll have to work a bit harder when he finds he has Goode and Burrell as his wingers.

Our current wingers are far too green yet to be judged, and will definitely be targeted - but keep watching.

How can he possibly be the best FB in the NH when three players Hogg, Kearney (injured) and 1/2p world player of year nominee were selected ahead of him for the Lions tour?

by quinsforever Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:01 am

SecretFly wrote:
quinsforever wrote: think you'll find race is caucasian whether he's australian or irish.

I think you'll find, quins, that whites, blacks and orientals are all genetic bothers and Caucasian means as little as Irish if we're going to get technical about it. But we all know the shorthand use of 'race' - as you certainly did when you made the clear distinction between caucasian D'arcy with a beard and an Australian caucasion with one.

although maybe owners of beards like that deserve their own sub-species

by Scrumpy Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:02 am

Is he banned from Ikea?

by beshocked Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:02 am

SecretFly wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Equally I could say why should we fear Ireland?

It doesn't matter though if you don't fear us or if we secretly fear you, beshocked.
If we lose, we'll have lost. If we win, we'll have won.
History over the last few years will have no part to play in deciding whether we should win or whether England has a right to win. No rights and no should'as. It's who wins and who loses.

I agree but psychologically winning or losing makes a difference.

E.g. Ireland beat Wales in Wales last season and this season they have thumped Wales. Beating opposition gives you the confidence you can do it again.

Equally if you haven't beaten a side in a while you naturally freeze up a little bit as Ireland have done on numerous occasions vs NZ and Wales vs Australia. Both sides should have picked up a win at some point but the win has eluded them.

by No 7&1/2 Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:03 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Barney McGrew did it wrote:I smile when Mike Brown doesn’t get all the respect he’s earned. The most under-rated player in test rugby, and the best FB in the NH. Picks up MotMs for fun. Keep ignoring him I say, and keep me smiling.

Mind you he’ll have to work a bit harder when he finds he has Goode and Burrell as his wingers.

Our current wingers are far too green yet to be judged, and will definitely be targeted - but keep watching.

How can he possibly be the best FB in the NH when three players Hogg, Kearney (injured) and 1/2p world player of year nominee were selected ahead of him for the Lions tour?

Because of his performances at full back rather than the wing. It comes back to him not being played there consistently enough for people to consider him one of the best in the position. Very good player though.

by ChequeredJersey Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:04 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Barney McGrew did it wrote:I smile when Mike Brown doesn’t get all the respect he’s earned. The most under-rated player in test rugby, and the best FB in the NH. Picks up MotMs for fun. Keep ignoring him I say, and keep me smiling.

Mind you he’ll have to work a bit harder when he finds he has Goode and Burrell as his wingers.

Our current wingers are far too green yet to be judged, and will definitely be targeted - but keep watching.

How can he possibly be the best FB in the NH when three players Hogg, Kearney (injured) and 1/2p world player of year nominee were selected ahead of him for the Lions tour?

Probably because he had been played at wing not fullback for the preceding 6 Nations, which I gather you have struggled to understand elsewhere on this thread too. That or Gatland is not as good a coach as some think, which is a possibility. I'd suggest mostly the former though

by quinsforever Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:05 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Barney McGrew did it wrote:I smile when Mike Brown doesn’t get all the respect he’s earned. The most under-rated player in test rugby, and the best FB in the NH. Picks up MotMs for fun. Keep ignoring him I say, and keep me smiling.

Mind you he’ll have to work a bit harder when he finds he has Goode and Burrell as his wingers.

Our current wingers are far too green yet to be judged, and will definitely be targeted - but keep watching.

How can he possibly be the best FB in the NH when three players Hogg, Kearney (injured) and 1/2p world player of year nominee were selected ahead of him for the Lions tour?

HAHAHA. he hadnt even played FB for england before the Lions tour!

and as you should surely know GG, selection is very subjective.

this year, 1/2P has been rubbish. Kearney is a FB i really like to watch, and Hogg only looks good because the rest of his team are so poor (IMO).

and lets not forget Dulin who is a very slick runner at FB.

i would say that there is no-one who is better than Brown at FB in the NH, but he is not better than Kearney or Dulin this season. Brown's catching is really a marvel. Ireland are about to discover this.

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