England vs Ireland

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Could be game of the six nations what do you think?

Recent form - Ireland beaten by Australia convincingly; whereas England beat Australia.

No it's not perfectly black and white, but there we go. Prediction:

England 23-11 Ireland.

There's an Irish sewage outfit we hav..................... I mean there is a sewage cleaning outfit working on pipes in the Twickenham area this week..........  

GunsGerms wrote:The Aviva has the best surface in the 6 nations. Still no tries conceded.

Don't the Aviva and Twickenham have exactly the same type of pitch?

England didnt just sneak it last year. The scoreboard was close but England were good value for the win, Sexton injured or no. However, given the conditions that day the result may not be relevant at all to the next meeting.

Both sides are entitled to imagine that they can do well. It may be worth pointing out that neither side was able to cross the line last year on a day fit only for the kind or rugby that both England and Ireland seem quite good at. A high proportion of Ireland's tries this year, and plenty of penalties as well, have derived from the strength in the line-out/rolling maul. It strikes me that much depends on England's ability to gain parity there.

I think that you can rely on all four half-backs to set the correct tactical tone with their kicking. As is so often the case, the deciding factor will be the blokes with the low numbers. I do find this one particularly hard to call; will it come down to the strength and deployment of the bench forwards, because this game has fractions in it?

Also hoping we dont pick up any injuries between now and kick off.

Guns - Of course England are going to score a try or, probably, two.

The confidence in the backs is growing, and the forward domination will ensure England have some chances, of which they will probably take.

And of course England didn't score a try against Ireland last time....but the weather was horrendous.

England have scored tries in recent times against Australia, New Zealand and France - why not Ireland as well?

HammerofThunor wrote:If you include the benchs (so England have Mako and Attwood who are big fellas) the averages are 114kg to England and 116kg to Ireland.

Doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of performance but in terms of 'monstrous' and Ireland 'punching above their weight' it's interesting.

Yeah much of Irelands weight is coming from Toner who's nearly 7ft and Ross who's a fat lump and close to 20st. Generally man for man England are bigger, generally the Irish guys are between 16 - 17.5 stone and relatively lightweight.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Irish fans are more confident than I thought! Just glad it's at Twickenham.

I called it before the tournament kicked off. England have three in a row v Ireland so this game will a massive . In recent interviews Heaslip and Schmidt have admitted that they have been eyeing this game for a while.

I have a feeling we are in for a big performance from Ireland.

HammerofThunor wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:The Aviva has the best surface in the 6 nations. Still no tries conceded.

Don't the Aviva and Twickenham have exactly the same type of pitch?

Yes but ours is greener because of the glass paneled roof.

Duty281 wrote:Recent form - Ireland beaten by Australia convincingly; whereas England beat Australia.

No it's not perfectly black and white, but there we go. Prediction:

England 23-11 Ireland.

Ireland beat Wales this year and last year (home and away) ...the team that beat the English at Twickenham. Correct - a shade of grey.

rodders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:If you include the benchs (so England have Mako and Attwood who are big fellas) the averages are 114kg to England and 116kg to Ireland.

Doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of performance but in terms of 'monstrous' and Ireland 'punching above their weight' it's interesting.

Yeah much of Irelands weight is coming from Toner who's nearly 7ft and Ross who's a fat lump and close to 20st.  Generally man for man England are bigger, generally the Irish guys are between 16 - 17.5 stone and relatively lightweight.

Well Healy is bigger than Marler, Ross is bigger than Cole, Toner is bigger than Launchbury and O'Connell is bigger than Lawes.

By generally do you mean stereotypically?

GunsGerms wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:The Aviva has the best surface in the 6 nations. Still no tries conceded.

Don't the Aviva and Twickenham have exactly the same type of pitch?

Yes but ours is greener because of the glass paneled roof.

Fair enough. Does the greeness make a difference to the play? Like red makes cars go faster?

SecretFly wrote:There's an Irish sewage outfit we hav.....................  I mean there is a sewage cleaning outfit working on pipes in the Twickenham area this week..........  

What kind of surface are the Twickenham pipers planning to give the Irish to play on ?
In Edinburgh they worried about it being too dry, so sprayed the pitch constantly with water and garlic, to scare off the English Orcs.
Didn't work, just kept the scoreline respectable at only 20.

Irish players eat stodgy spuds...
English players eat space food designed by the Olympic Committee of Sporting Perfection and Preparation Excellence.

We is gonna be destroyed..

 

Who needs tries when you've got Danny Care kicking Drop goals!

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Irish fans are more confident than I thought! Just glad it's at Twickenham.

I called it before the tournament kicked off. England have three in a row v Ireland so this game will a massive . In recent interviews Heaslip and Schmidt have admitted that they have been eyeing this game for a while.

I have a feeling we are in for a big performance from Ireland.

Good to see both sides will be going in with confidence.

Recent meetings - England.
Recent form (AIs and SNs so far) - evens
Home advantage - ENGLAND
Breakdown - Evens
Line-out – Evens (and when TY comes on IRELAND)
Scrum - Evens
Half-backs - Evens
Centres – Ireland (too early to say with England’s mix ‘n match approach)
Back three – Evens (too early to say with England’s nth choice wingers)

Sheer bluddi-mindedness – ENGLAND
MotM – England (Brown)
Godspeed – England
Niggle – I predict Hartley to out-niggle POM with Wood a creditable 3rd

All meaningless because at HQ Ireland will be 2nd best.

gregortree wrote:

SecretFly wrote:There's an Irish sewage outfit we hav.....................  I mean there is a sewage cleaning outfit working on pipes in the Twickenham area this week..........  

What kind of surface are the Twickenham pipers planning to give the Irish to play on ?
In Edinburgh they worried about it being too dry, so sprayed the pitch constantly with water and garlic, to scare off the English Orcs.
Didn't work, just kept the scoreline respectable at only 20.

They're trying to ensure three straight lines of solid muck down the pitch...one line down the middle and one each down the wings.  That might stop the English for a while through the first half until Schmidt draws up his plan of attack in his bunker in the dressing room with the players limbering up beside him by reading Irish history.  Second half,  and all the English slipping and sliding in the first half should make conditions just right for a final 79th minute drop kick to seal it for Ireland
Ireland 3 - England 0

SecretFly wrote:Irish players eat stodgy spuds...
English players eat space food designed by the Olympic Committee of Sporting Perfection and Preparation Excellence.

We is gonna be destroyed..

But what they don't tell you is the space food designed by the Olympic Committee of Sporting Perfection and Preparation is potato.

HammerofThunor wrote:

rodders wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:If you include the benchs (so England have Mako and Attwood who are big fellas) the averages are 114kg to England and 116kg to Ireland.

Doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of performance but in terms of 'monstrous' and Ireland 'punching above their weight' it's interesting.

Yeah much of Irelands weight is coming from Toner who's nearly 7ft and Ross who's a fat lump and close to 20st.  Generally man for man England are bigger, generally the Irish guys are between 16 - 17.5 stone and relatively lightweight.

Well Healy is bigger than Marler, Ross is bigger than Cole, Toner is bigger than Launchbury and O'Connell is bigger than Lawes.

By generally do you mean stereotypically?

Hmm not so sure about some of that - Toner isn't particularly physical for his size - Lawes is 6'7 and over 17st, O'Connell 6'6 and a similar weight. Hartley is definitely physically a bigger guy than Best regardless of the stats.

Vainapolo and Robshaw are bigger than the Irish back row combined ....

Scrumpy wrote:Who needs tries when you've got Danny Care kicking Drop goals!

The cheeky bar-steward is trying to outscore Owen Farrell.

Yes good point Scrumps
Drop Goals = advantage England.
and Sweet Chariot = advantage England

I do think the Irish overall except for Rodders are a bit overconfident.

Okay I know you did well to win two matches at home but England away is a much tougher prospect.

England have won the last two meetings between the sides meaning that psychologically the Irish will be up against it. As Wales seem to be vs Ireland and England seem to be with Wales.

I feel that the English halfbacks in particularly are very underrated by the Irish, in comparison the Irish halfbacks are portrayed as world beaters. In reality I would say there's not much difference - both have been working well together so far in the 6 nations.

As already mentioned by others missing SOB is a significant blow. He's a key man for Ireland.

I know there is talk of Ireland's decent defence but England in my opinion are good enough to breach it.

Does anyone else think Drop goals are under used?

IMO England get themselfs into good field position so why not use this as a weapon to score drop goals seeing as we find it hard to cross the whitewash, very hard to defend against and it will frustrate the hell out of teams.

Duty281 wrote:Guns - Of course England are going to score a try or, probably, two.

The confidence in the backs is growing, and the forward domination will ensure England have some chances, of which they will probably take.

And of course England didn't score a try against Ireland last time....but the weather was horrendous.

England have scored tries in recent times against Australia, New Zealand and France - why not Ireland as well?

I didnt say they wouldnt score any tries but I cant see them scoring three against ireland because we have the tightest defense in the tournament so far and the second tightest last year conceding an average of 1 per game. Or .75 per game if you dont include the game v champions Wales who were the tournaments top try scorers. England only scored an averare of 5 tries last campaign. Hardly potent.

I don't think any Irish player ever looks menacing...no matter how big. They just don't hone that muscle to such definition that other sides seem to do.

But that's the ploy...look skinny or fat or pale legged and put the opposition's mind at rest... who came off worse in the collision between O'Driscoll and the Welsh missile fired at him though?

GunsGerms wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Guns - Of course England are going to score a try or, probably, two.

The confidence in the backs is growing, and the forward domination will ensure England have some chances, of which they will probably take.

And of course England didn't score a try against Ireland last time....but the weather was horrendous.

England have scored tries in recent times against Australia, New Zealand and France - why not Ireland as well?

I didnt say they wouldnt score any tries but I cant see them scoring three against ireland because we have the tightest defense in the tournament so far and the second tightest last year conceding an average of 1 per game. Or .75 per game if you dont include the game v champions Wales who were the tournaments top try scorers. England only scored an averare of 5 tries last campaign. Hardly potent.

That was last year though. We've already scored 4 (I know, last year we scored all ours vs Scotland...) and have been frankly a bit wasteful in that

Scrumpy wrote:Does anyone else think Drop goals are under used?

IMO England get themselfs into good field position so why not use this as a weapon to score drop goals seeing as we find it hard to cross the whitewash, very hard to defend against and it will frustrate the hell out of teams.

It certainly did in ye olden days of Johnson and Wilkinson.  I'm not just talking England here.  They may be effective and legal but they completely kill the spirit of rugby and I personally would ban their use.  I know it's a skill but too many games have been won by a side that couldn't score a winning try but could pick off a final second on the clock drop kick.

beshocked wrote:I do think the Irish overall except for Rodders are a bit overconfident.

I'm hopeful but realistic. I think we've got the players and experience to pull off an upset.

Twickenham is a fortress though, England are very powerful and start as favourites no matter what anyone says...we'll need to be very clever and astute tactically but we have very good coaches so here's hoping for something special.

SecretFly wrote:I don't think any Irish player ever looks menacing...no matter how big.  They just don't hone that muscle to such definition that other sides seem to do.

But that's the ploy...look skinny or fat or pale legged and put the opposition's mind at rest...  who came off worse in the collision between O'Driscoll and the Welsh missile fired at him though?

You don't think POC looks menacing/intimidating??!   

I love a good drop goal, people who say it isn't in the spirit of the game need to understand that it is.

Its a weapon that is under used, I'm sure Ireland would have took one vs NZ (in AIs) if they had a restart and got into a position to take one.

SecretFly wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Does anyone else think Drop goals are under used?

IMO England get themselfs into good field position so why not use this as a weapon to score drop goals seeing as we find it hard to cross the whitewash, very hard to defend against and it will frustrate the hell out of teams.

It certainly did in ye olden days of Johnson and Wilkinson.  I'm not just talking England here.  They may be effective and legal but they completely kill the spirit of rugby and I personally would ban their use.  I know it's a skill but too many games have been won by a side that couldn't score a winning try but could pick off a final second on the clock drop kick.

The joy of the DK all depends if you are giving or receiving.

gregortree wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Does anyone else think Drop goals are under used?

IMO England get themselfs into good field position so why not use this as a weapon to score drop goals seeing as we find it hard to cross the whitewash, very hard to defend against and it will frustrate the hell out of teams.

It certainly did in ye olden days of Johnson and Wilkinson.  I'm not just talking England here.  They may be effective and legal but they completely kill the spirit of rugby and I personally would ban their use.  I know it's a skill but too many games have been won by a side that couldn't score a winning try but could pick off a final second on the clock drop kick.

The joy of the DK  all depends if you are giving or receiving.

Indeed. In the '99 World Cup vs SA they were baaaaaaad. Bloomin' de Beer  

Rodders well said. I agree.

beshocked wrote:I do think the Irish overall except for Rodders are a bit overconfident.

I think I see only Guns saying he believes it will be an out and out win for Ireland (his prerogative by the way and quite a few English here aren't afraid of saying they think it'll be England that is victorious)
So who is the other over-confident Irish guys?  And what does 'over-confidence' mean?  Unrealistic expectations?  Even the pundits, English too, will be saying it's not exactly an impossibility that Ireland might win it.  Confident that we have the ability to win...not confident to the extent of saying 'we are going to win'.  Time will tell which it is.

That Irish rolling maul is going to take some stopping. Hope they're scratching their heads over that one now.
The choke tackle might well give Ireland dividends, especially with the less experienced wingers, as they seemed to get themselves isolated at times. (Probably because the rest of the team aren't used to seeing anyone in white moving at speed, and so don't get up in support in time.)
Hate the fact we have to wait two weeks for this game. It's going to be a cracker!

gregortree wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Does anyone else think Drop goals are under used?

IMO England get themselfs into good field position so why not use this as a weapon to score drop goals seeing as we find it hard to cross the whitewash, very hard to defend against and it will frustrate the hell out of teams.

It certainly did in ye olden days of Johnson and Wilkinson.  I'm not just talking England here.  They may be effective and legal but they completely kill the spirit of rugby and I personally would ban their use.  I know it's a skill but too many games have been won by a side that couldn't score a winning try but could pick off a final second on the clock drop kick.

The joy of the DK  all depends if you are giving or receiving.

Well no...as I don't like it when even our guys use it..and they have. It kills the spirit of the game - for either sex partner

Cyril wrote:

gregortree wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Does anyone else think Drop goals are under used?

IMO England get themselfs into good field position so why not use this as a weapon to score drop goals seeing as we find it hard to cross the whitewash, very hard to defend against and it will frustrate the hell out of teams.

It certainly did in ye olden days of Johnson and Wilkinson.  I'm not just talking England here.  They may be effective and legal but they completely kill the spirit of rugby and I personally would ban their use.  I know it's a skill but too many games have been won by a side that couldn't score a winning try but could pick off a final second on the clock drop kick.

The joy of the DK  all depends if you are giving or receiving.

Indeed. In the '99 World Cup vs SA they were baaaaaaad. Bloomin' de Beer  

  second that ! He gave us a painful rogering.

beshocked et al; why are we overconfident? Can you really honestly say you have a good team yet? We can't, we're still a work in progress. But England have to be the same; if they want to have any chance in their own World Cup they need to improve a great deal from the last two games. I expect they will, ultimately, but that improvement will take time.

Two mediocre sides meet, but at least we don't have any illusions over where we are in the great scheme of things. So far England have lost to a very poor France team and huffed and puffed against an abysmal Scottish team. They've shown glimpses of quality developed but the Irish coaching staff will also be looking at a whole lot of weaknesses that are on display for everyone to see, a whole lot of not having enough accuracy in the basics. Not that we are world beaters; Ireland have beaten the same Scottish team without ever really coming close to an impressive performance and tactically out-smarted an under performing Welsh team who have always been far short of the top sides in world rugby.

I don't see why either set of fans should be feeling particularly delighted with where their teams are, but Ireland fans should be very happy given we've improved a great deal form being an abysmal side this time last year- not that means we are where we want to be by a long shot but we're on an upward trajectory at least. I sense England are too, but right now they're scaring nobody.

Can anyone seriously explain why any side should be afraid of England? Respectful, always- but where does the fear factor come from? They look far from superhuman, far from the quality of the top international sides and we have a lot of players who are experienced at winning in England at both club and test level so there's no shortage of respect but also a great deal of justified confidence. Sure, we know we need to improve too but this game is really delicately poised, really closely matched. Feels like a lot of fans are massively overrating the home side. England are not a lesser side than Ireland, not worst than us- but they certainly aren't better either.

Forget the result I just want to see Ireland trying to use a choke tackle on Bully Vunipola..

Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast. We will look to put pressure on the England back three who are defensively an obvious weakness for England in particular Brown, Goode and Nowell who often look lost in defense. I hope Goode is selected, please please please.

lostinwales wrote:Forget the result I just want to see Ireland trying to use a choke tackle on Bully Vunipola..

We havent used that tactic much so far this championship. Ireland learned in the RWC game v Wales that using a choke tackle on a monster like Roberts in pointless.

Notch wrote:beshocked et al; why are we overconfident? Can you really say you have a good team yet?

Two mediocre sides meet, but at least we don't have any illusions over where we are in the great scheme of things. So far England have lost to a very poor France team and huffed and puffed against an abysmal Scottish team. They've shown glimpses of quality developed but the Irish coaching staff will also be looking at a whole lot of weaknesses that are on display for everyone to see, a whole lot of not having enough accuracy in the basics. Not that we are world beaters; Ireland have beaten the same Scottish team without ever really coming close to an impressive performance and tactically out-smarted an under performing Welsh team who have always been far short of the top sides in world rugby.

I don't see why either set of fans should be feeling particularly delighted with where their teams are, but Ireland fans should be very happy given we've improved a great deal form being an abysmal side this time last year- not that means we are where we want to be by a long shot but we're on an upward trajectory at least.

Can anyone seriously explain why any side should be afraid of England? Respectful, always- but where does the fear factor come from? They look far from superhuman, far from the quality of the top international sides and we have a lot of players who are experienced at winning in England at both club and test level so there's no shortage of respect but also a great deal of justified confidence.

Think the confidence from England is coming from a pack which now looks settled and very well balanced, the Sh we're picking looking very good, Farrell playing flat, finally a decent midfield starting to gel (if 36 can maintain his Scotland form) and a back 3 who suddenyl look threatening. It's tempered by an underperforming bench who are lacking in impact (in a good way) though.

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast. We will look to put pressure on the England back three who are defensively an obvious weakness for England in particular Brown, Goode and Nowell who often look lost in defense. I hope Goode is selected, please please please.

Can't see this at all. Why do you think they're weak?

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast. We will look to put pressure on the England back three who are defensively an obvious weakness for England in particular Brown and Nowell.

Really don't see Brown as a weakness. Nowell - fair enough, but he appears to be learning quickly.

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will play a wider game this time round unless a storm is forecast. We will look to put pressure on the England back three who are defensively an obvious weakness for England in particular Brown, Goode and Nowell who often look lost in defense. I hope Goode is selected, please please please.

How can Nowell "often look lost in defence"? He has 2 caps!

And if you are taking Brown at FB as a defensive liability, or someone to kick at in any way, good luck to you

lostinwales wrote:Forget the result I just want to see Ireland trying to use a choke tackle on Bully Vunipola..

I'll be laughing now if they pull it off  'Lostinwales will be interested to have seen that, he did say he'd like to see it.'

Goode certainly won't start. I fear he may be on the bench, which is odd as both our wingers can play 15, but if he starts over a fit Brown I'll lead the revolution against Lancaster myself