England vs Ireland

First topic message reminder :

Could be game of the six nations what do you think?

Well its not like we havent had England players targeted in the past. The most obvious was Jamie Joseph/Kyran Bracken. Harry Ellis's career was finished by a stupid kick from Ian Evans.

I dont think its far fetched to assume most teams have players they will target for a bit of wind up or bit of the physical stuff. Especially the "playmaker/star players".

England will do it to Sexton etc...and Irleand will probably target Danny Care as he's been our catalyst so far.

Its part of rugby

lostinwales wrote:Well its not like we havent had England players targeted in the past. The most obvious was Jamie Joseph/Kyran Bracken. Harry Ellis's career was finished by a stupid kick from Ian Evans.

South Africa vs Wilkos shoulder?


Theres a difference between looking to take risks putting in big hits and marking an individual to rough up ( see Tuilagi family vs Abendanon 2 or 3 seasons back for a masterclass) and downright thuggery like the BOD "clearout" or Nelson Mandelas eye gouge on the 2009 Lions tour.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I dont think its far fetched to assume most teams have players they will target for a bit of wind up or bit of the physical stuff. Especially the "playmaker/star players".

England will do it to Sexton etc...and Irleand will probably target Danny Care as he's been our catalyst so far.

Its part of rugby

It would be unusual that players would be targeted to be taken out of the game (injured) as part of a game plan though isnt? Obviously apart from BOD on the '05 Lions tour which was fairly obviously premeditated.

I dont mean taken out of the game...i mean a few big smashes on a player just puts a second of hesitation in his head. And that can change the game.

I dont condone thuggery, and deliberately putting players out thats totally off...but i think it would be naive to say that teams didnt target players for special treatment.

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sexton is one of the bigger 10s in international rugby as Farrell is also. Not easy to rough either of them up though if I was going to try it vs Ireland I would get Lawes the 10 mauler to do the task with Marler and Hartley as his able disciples.

Ireland will be hunting in packs if anyone touches Sexton. Liam Williams tried to "rough up" Paddy Jackson after his try. The ensuing melee saw Mike Philips get a yellow card. Joubert is no mug and will surely be wise to any such antics.

It is so English to think of ways to cheat before the game has even kicked off.  

You're right, we should learn from the irish and do it on the pitch.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Not sure kearny will be playing, apparently he's busy helping one direction beat up mike Phillips

Maybe Mike Phillips can hire Aled Thomas to protect him

Barney McGrew did it wrote:You're right, we should learn from the irish and do it on the pitch.

Dan Cole in particular does it every match. Do you really think England are any different than anyone else in that respect? The Irish team is actually one of the lest penalised teams in world rugby in the last 10 years.

The really big 'smashes'/collisions are an important part of rugby. The aim is that the victim is able to get up and walk away, even if he cant do it straight away.

There is a big difference between that and actually going in to injure people

GunsGerms wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:You're right, we should learn from the irish and do it on the pitch.

Dan Cole in particular does it every match. Do you really think England are any different than anyone else in that respect? The Irish team is actually one of the lest penalised teams in world rugby in the last 10 years.

Blend into the grass, hard to spot them. Wouldn't work at Murrayfield

Mike Phillips is auditioning for One Direction...they need a bodyguard who can also sing a little. A little is all you need in 1D.

SecretFly wrote:Mike Phillips is auditioning for One Direction...they need a bodyguard who can also sing a little.  A little is all you need in 1D.

Wouldn't they want someone harder, less easy to wind up and who gives better service than Phillips in a bodyguard?

lostinwales wrote:The really big 'smashes'/collisions are an important part of rugby. The aim is that the victim is able to get up and walk away, even if he cant do it straight away.

There is a big difference between that and actually going in to injure people

Didnt work out too well for Scott Williams when he tried to smash BOD. He ended up limping off the field himself. Sometimes trying to smash someone else can work out badly for you. Just ask Gazza.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:You're right, we should learn from the irish and do it on the pitch.

Dan Cole in particular does it every match. Do you really think England are any different than anyone else in that respect? The Irish team is actually one of the lest penalised teams in world rugby in the last 10 years.

Blend into the grass, hard to spot them. Wouldn't work at Murrayfield

We have a special brown away kit for Murrayfield.

Actually, I'm relieved we didn't have to play in Edinburgh this year. Not because I think we would have lost, more that pitch is awful for the spectator.

Well they are nailed on for the Desso Grassmaster for next year too so we wont have to worry about it.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Mike Phillips is auditioning for One Direction...they need a bodyguard who can also sing a little.  A little is all you need in 1D.

Wouldn't they want someone harder, less easy to wind up and who gives better service than Phillips in a bodyguard?

Well I've never seen Phillips decked by any player yet. Maybe I'm wrong there and someone can point out the player who did. Madman yes... in a hardman contest though I think he could hold his own. Let's be fair here

As long as he doesnt try to pick a fight with Healy, SOB or POC im sure he will be fine.

I don't think I've seen Phillips pick a fight with someone his own size...

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sexton is one of the bigger 10s in international rugby as Farrell is also. Not easy to rough either of them up though if I was going to try it vs Ireland I would get Lawes the 10 mauler to do the task with Marler and Hartley as his able disciples.

Ireland will be hunting in packs if anyone touches Sexton. Liam Williams tried to "rough up" Paddy Jackson after his try. The ensuing melee saw Mike Philips get a yellow card. Joubert is no mug and will surely be wise to any such antics.

It is so English to think of ways to cheat before the game has even kicked off.  

Is it cheating to tackle the Irish players? Should we just allow the Irish to choke tackle to their heart's delight?

Asking a winger to rough up a fly half is not very smart is it?

Wise to antics? Hope you are right. I expect some skullduggery from the Irish too.  Joubert will need to police both sides even handedly.

I am just saying that if England have the intention of targetting Sexton you don't send your smallest and lightest players to do it. You send your biggest,meanest and hardest tacklers.

He picked a fight with the whole SA team on the Lions....

I like Mike Phillips, has plenty of passion and bottle -he's been a great and undervalued player for Wales and a real thorn in Irelands side over the years.

He does look out of sorts though, whether it's age or just his club situation affecting him he's some way off top form.

Is there going to be any rugby played in this here game or are certain players just going to wander around with targets stuck to their blind spots?

Choke tackle isnt illegal. Anyway Ireland havent used it much this campaign. I expect they will use it a little more on the England backs though.

Yes hopefully the Irish players will pummell the English pack. Sexton is a big box and well able to take tackles.

SecretFly wrote:Is there going to be any rugby played in this here game or are certain players just going to wander around with targets stuck to their blind spots?

Ireland will play some rugby England might play some rugby league.

rodders wrote:He picked a fight with the whole SA team on the Lions....

I like Mike Phillips, has plenty of passion and bottle -he's been a great and undervalued player for Wales and a real thorn in Irelands side over the years.

He does look out of sorts though, whether it's age or just his club situation affecting him he's some way off top form.

Well said Rodders... he demands our (Ireland's) respect because he has seemed to have our number on so many occasions but at the same time has always been bloody dignified in saying what it means to him and in how he respects the Irish players (not all his colleagues would be so free in their praise of us )  
Plus, he ran in where other angels feared to thread when BOD was in trouble with a handful of South Africans... it was the Welsh man who charged in and protected wee BOD.  That was his character and I admire him for his instincts to protect his own.

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:He picked a fight with the whole SA team on the Lions....

I like Mike Phillips, has plenty of passion and bottle -he's been a great and undervalued player for Wales and a real thorn in Irelands side over the years.

He does look out of sorts though, whether it's age or just his club situation affecting him he's some way off top form.

Well said Rodders... he demands our (Ireland's) respect because he has seemed to have our number on so many occasions but at the same time has always been bloody dignified in saying what it means to him and in how he respects the Irish players (not all his colleagues would be so free in their praise of us )  
Plus, he ran in where other angels feared to thread when BOD was in trouble with a handful of South Africans... it was the Welsh man who charged in and protected wee BOD.  That was his character and I admire him for his instincts to protect his own.

Fair enough. Phillips is a Lion, no doubt about that

I don't think Ireland or England are known as particularly dirty teams .... apart from Hartley and Healy and Lawes... and Bestie and Henry cheat a lot at the deck .... and Care's a nasty wee bollix ... and Farrell and Sexton are known for sledging and Trimble is a bit overenthusiastic in defence at times and O'Mahoney and Wood are hot heads and ... hmm ok forget it this one could be nasty ....

'On his day' Mike Phillips is a real game changer in the best (and for his opponents most annoying) sense. I just dont think its his day anymore, and all you are left with is an angry man who doesnt play scrum half very well

GunsGerms wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:You're right, we should learn from the irish and do it on the pitch.

Dan Cole in particular does it every match. Do you really think England are any different than anyone else in that respect? The Irish team is actually one of the lest penalised teams in world rugby in the last 10 years.

you just made that up

rodders wrote:I don't think Ireland or England are known as particularly dirty teams .... apart from Hartley and Healy and Lawes... and Bestie and Henry cheat a lot at the deck .... and Care's a nasty wee bollix ... and Farrell and Sexton are known for sledging and Trimble is a bit overenthusiastic in defence at times and O'Mahoney and Wood are hot heads and ... hmm ok forget it this one could be nasty ....

I dont think Lawes is actually a dirty player at all. He did get a card (or a short ban) for a kick but there really wasnt much in it. He does like his tackles though. I'd look out for Marler much more

Marler and Care's discipline has improved. Worryingly recently it's Brown who's been looking for fights again!

quinsforever wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:You're right, we should learn from the irish and do it on the pitch.

Dan Cole in particular does it every match. Do you really think England are any different than anyone else in that respect? The Irish team is actually one of the lest penalised teams in world rugby in the last 10 years.

you just made that up

No, Billtong recently posted stats on the teams with the best diciplinary records.

quinsforever wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:You're right, we should learn from the irish and do it on the pitch.

Dan Cole in particular does it every match. Do you really think England are any different than anyone else in that respect? The Irish team is actually one of the lest penalised teams in world rugby in the last 10 years.

you just made that up

To be fair him and Youngs do wind Hartley up every game

I think it was the bit about Cole doing "it" every game that people were questioning the truth of.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I think it was the bit about Cole doing "it" every game that people were questioning the truth of.

These "people" must be living in la la land.

lostinwales wrote:I dont think Lawes is actually a dirty player at all. He did get a card (or a short ban) for a kick but there really wasnt much in it. He does like his tackles though. I'd look out for Marler much more

Lawes was banned in the world cup for the tackle on an Argentinian (Ledesma?) into touch. He was done for not using his arms (as most people do when trying to push someone into touch to stop a try). Ledesma was falling and Lawes fell to his knees and slide into him, catching Ledesma on the head with his thrid leg. Not a massive deal and an understandable 2 weeks to the dreaded 'letter of the law' but often ignored.

Other than that he's maybe had a couple of yellows for borderline late hits (all of them he's committed IMO). I've never seen him fight (other than the wrestling to pull players apart). I have seen a French lock punch him in the face (got a red) and Lawes didn't react.

The dirty stuff (IMO) is a load of made up cowpat. He's at worst a clumsy player (and he's tightened that up massively recently).

All my opinion of course so FACT.

So Ireland has the only "thug" at Twickenham?  

Is that official?  

Okay - let's move on.  

What else is on the agenda for this game?  Low scoring game of guile and suspicion?  Or a free-running, high scoring classic?

SecretFly wrote:So Ireland has the only "thug" at Twickenham?  

Is that official?  

Okay - let's move on.  

What else is on the agenda for this game?  Low scoring game of guile and suspicion?  Or a free-running, high scoring classic?

Keith Earls might still get picked.

Saw Josh Lewsey in Cafe en Seine last Saturday. I am a big fan and since he was on his own I said hello Josh. Sadly he was in no mood to talk and just nodded acknowlegement and headed off. Oh well, still a class player.

He's in charge of Welsh rugby now. Probably too busy to chat.

Never meet your heros.

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:So Ireland has the only "thug" at Twickenham?  

Is that official?  

Okay - let's move on.  

What else is on the agenda for this game?  Low scoring game of guile and suspicion?  Or a free-running, high scoring classic?

Keith Earls might still get picked.
...

I guess that would help the 'free running' on both sides..

SecretFly wrote:So Ireland has the only "thug" at Twickenham?  

Is that official?  

Okay - let's move on.  

What else is on the agenda for this game?  Low scoring game of guile and suspicion?  Or a free-running, high scoring classic?

Hartley's there so it's the kiwis.

Hopefully, with the second best pitch in the 6 nations, the ground will be good and this storm will have blown itself out by then. Personally I'm hoping nobody has any injuries (especially early on, e.g. Ross) and both play to 'their best', or at least what the other team allows them. I try not to worry about what's going to happen and just watch it find out.

SecretFly wrote:Never meet your heros.

Agree with that. Some rugby players - mentioning no names are heroes on the pitch but off it.....

GunsGerms I have had similar disappointing encounters with players I respect.

Harsh to judge any person on a one off encounter though. He probably was busy! His brother used to teach PE at my younger brother's school. My brother was a trampolinist and one day Josh Lewsey came along and complimented him on his trampolining, and it made my brother's day. I also served him cocktails at an event once but as I was serving and he was a guest, obviously couldn't gush at him!

I'm just saying we all have days where we aren't as friendly as we'd like to be, we should judge people on their persistent behaviour!

Ah look I dont hold it against him cause Im sure he constantly gets pestered. Was a bit star struck though. Some player.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Harsh to judge any person on a one off encounter though. He probably was busy! His brother used to teach PE at my younger brother's school. My brother was a trampolinist and one day Josh Lewsey came along and complimented him on his trampolining, and it made my brother's day. I also served him cocktails at an event once but as I was serving and he was a guest, obviously couldn't gush at him!

I'm just saying we all have days where we aren't as friendly as we'd like to be, we should judge people on their persistent behaviour!

Bloody southerners

Remember he did deck Cipriani. Always remember he decked Cipriani.

HammerofThunor wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Harsh to judge any person on a one off encounter though. He probably was busy! His brother used to teach PE at my younger brother's school. My brother was a trampolinist and one day Josh Lewsey came along and complimented him on his trampolining, and it made my brother's day. I also served him cocktails at an event once but as I was serving and he was a guest, obviously couldn't gush at him!

I'm just saying we all have days where we aren't as friendly as we'd like to be, we should judge people on their persistent behaviour!

Bloody southerners  

I think he even had a non-alcoholic one

GunsGerms wrote:Ah look I dont hold it against him cause Im sure he constantly gets pestered. Was a bit star struck though. Some player.

One of my favourites. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WsMdyjLUsxQ

Maybe GunsGerms comes across a bit scary in person - just saying   

Im actually really nice in person.

#justsaying