Team Changes for Ireland

by ME-109 Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

So does anyone think Joe is going to make any changes to the starting 15 for Ireland v England?

Personally I think our backline have show no creativity and except for individual cameos from various players has been at best stodgy. In the original squad I and others voiced concerns over leaving Zebo and others out. However I think now that given the way the team has won its first two games and all players have done well Joe cannot change the starting 15 as it would give a wrong message players....so steady as she goes Joe or do we try to play like the harlem globetrotters....

by Feckless Rogue Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:50 pm

I'd love if Zebo was our fullback. I like Kearney a lot but I'm a sucker for the flashy guys.

Earls, Bowe, Zebo would be my preferred back three in an ideal world where nobody is injured or being punished. Three lethal finishers. That's what the back three is there for.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:51 pm

Hmm.................. okay he never rotated. It's all a big misunderstanding. I'm tired. I'm going to bed shortly. The fight has been drained out of me.. This is a good time to throw anything at me, I'll likely agree with you Wink

by ME-109 Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:52 pm

Ah look we have been soft on the Ulster lads so far...so maybe tomorrow we will take a forensic look at them...just for fun mind...

by Feckless Rogue Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:53 pm

SecretFly wrote:Hmm.................. okay he never rotated. It's all a big misunderstanding. I'm tired. I'm going to bed shortly. The fight has been drained out of me.. This is a good time to throw anything at me, I'll likely agree with you

Fly remember that 50 quid you owe me? Just pm me your bank details there.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:53 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:I'd love if Zebo was our fullback. I like Kearney a lot but I'm a sucker for the flashy guys.

Earls, Bowe, Zebo would be my preferred back three in an ideal world where nobody is injured or being punished. Three lethal finishers. That's what the back three is there for.

Three excellente defenders? It's a game of two halves - attack, defence. But I wouldn't mind them either. Mostly to mix things up and keep opposition on their toes. But the whole deal must apply to all players - solid in attack (maybe even flashy) - solid in defence.... do the ground hog stuff too with equal delight.

by Guest Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:54 pm

ME-109 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:

By the way, Schmidt doesn't like the word 'rotation'! I'm surprised all you Leinster fans don't know that

He may use a different word then...but he's done enough of it for us to know he does it.

Look at Schmidts HC teams with Leinster....he never rotated/changed the team unless there was an injury. His selections were as obvious as a belfastman with a grudge.

Not as obvious as your baiting Wink

by ME-109 Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:56 pm

Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:

By the way, Schmidt doesn't like the word 'rotation'! I'm surprised all you Leinster fans don't know that

He may use a different word then...but he's done enough of it for us to know he does it.

Look at Schmidts HC teams with Leinster....he never rotated/changed the team unless there was an injury. His selections were as obvious as a belfastman with a grudge.

Not as obvious as your baiting

Just pointing out the obvious...that is all.

by GunsGerms Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:57 pm

Zebo seems like the sort of character who gets too big for his boots a little too easily. Does he just need to come back to earth a little?

by ME-109 Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:59 pm

Was waiting for the bit of begrudgery to be thrown in...talented and exciting rugby player...too big for his boots...shock!!! Headline in the Indo (or probably the Times Guns/Liam) tomorrow.

by Guest Tue 11 Feb 2014, 12:00 am

ME-109 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:

By the way, Schmidt doesn't like the word 'rotation'! I'm surprised all you Leinster fans don't know that

He may use a different word then...but he's done enough of it for us to know he does it.

Look at Schmidts HC teams with Leinster....he never rotated/changed the team unless there was an injury. His selections were as obvious as a belfastman with a grudge.

Not as obvious as your baiting

Just pointing out the obvious...that is all.

Aye, and so was I Very Happy

by ME-109 Tue 11 Feb 2014, 12:00 am

GunsGerms wrote:Zebo seems like the sort of character who gets too big for his boots a little too easily. Does he just need to come back to earth a little?

In all serioiusness if you were an ex Deputy Principal Zebo is exactly the type of pupil you would hate....pity Joe doesnt realise its a rugby team and not highschool..

by GunsGerms Tue 11 Feb 2014, 12:02 am

Zebo makes enough headlines off the field for myself/Toland to add to them. Will he learn though and refocus and get back into contention?

by Feckless Rogue Tue 11 Feb 2014, 12:04 am

SecretFly wrote:
Feckless Rogue wrote:I'd love if Zebo was our fullback. I like Kearney a lot but I'm a sucker for the flashy guys.

Earls, Bowe, Zebo would be my preferred back three in an ideal world where nobody is injured or being punished. Three lethal finishers. That's what the back three is there for.

Three excellente defenders? It's a game of two halves - attack, defence. But I wouldn't mind them either. Mostly to mix things up and keep opposition on their toes. But the whole deal must apply to all players - solid in attack (maybe even flashy) - solid in defence.... do the ground hog stuff too with equal delight.

I don't think any of them are notably bad defenders. Trimble and Baby Kearney were definitely better suited to the type of game we played at the weekend. But England can match us at that stuff. We need to play looser to beat them. Hopefully it'll be dry and we can run the English juggernaught's ragged. Actually I forgot about Fitz. Any chance he'll be fit?

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 10:18 am

Trimble and Kearney are the perfect wings for England, they'll cause havoc against Newel and May under the high ball.

A fit Bowe would be great but no way will he be 100%.

How about some credit to the players who deserve it -what more do these guys need to do to prove themselves?

K2 and Trimble are both form players and the incumbents so other than blatant provincial bias or religious discrimination I don't know why anyone is talking about replacing them for Twickenham.

Even Zebo's mum thinks they should start.

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 10:24 am

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote: The Ulster lads on these boards will know I have a good inside track on info there too. But anyway, believe as you wish lad

I would like to 100% verify that Hookies imaginary friend is a very reliable source of inside info.

by GunsGerms Tue 11 Feb 2014, 10:25 am

Rodders. I think Trimble has been magnificant. Even before the 6 nations I was calling for his inclusion despite some Ulster fans saying he was off form. He was one of our star men v Wales and very few players can keep George North in his box and out play him for 80 minutes. I have always been a Trimble fan. Couldnt care less what religion he is.

Also I have been saying DK is a great player for years now. He will never get the recognition he deserves because he isnt flash like Zebo and Fitz. He is probably a better all round player though.

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 10:40 am

Both guys win the ball in the air, defend well, work hard and are handy enough in attack too regardless of what people say. They're the kind of balanced wingers Schmidt likes and are playing well so I'd like to see them carry on, unless Schmidt wants to change the plan.

Let Bowe, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Gilroy and Zebo bide their time - they'll get their chances.

I'd mix it up against Italy and France given the back to back games but I wouldn't make many changes for Twickenham, other than the bench,

Toner has been an unsung hero, along with Trimble and Henry too.

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 10:44 am

rodders wrote:Trimble and Kearney are the perfect wings for England, they'll cause havoc against Newel and May under the high ball.

A fit Bowe would be great but no way will he be 100%.

How about some credit to the players who deserve it -what more do these guys need to do to prove themselves?

K2 and Trimble are both form players and the incumbents so other than blatant provincial bias or religious discrimination I don't know why anyone is talking about replacing them for Twickenham.

Even Zebo's mum thinks they should start.

It's something to do with what we were all shouting about before Kidney left, Rodders - a squad, not a special team. A real squad, really in the mix... shifting and changing to suit a game...surprising the opposition.

I thought we were all on board on that objective to widen the gene pool in case of another Irish classic sequence of injuries to main men???

I'm probably Dave Kearney's biggest cheer-leader. Have been since he started out. I have big expectations for him into the future...but, I wouldn't care a bit if another player came in for England to give a different hue to Ireland's presence, to keep opposition thinking and to give him a breather so that possibly against France he might resume duties and be fresher for it.

So whilst we all have favourites... let's not be selfish with the party. Let's hope it remains a party. Let's not needlessly over-work and over-play effective players (when we have good ones lurking to give them a break) The beauty of having a REAL squad is that you have players in positions that can keep each other fresh and concentrated by taking over duties from time to time. If we don't genuinely want that, then a lot of us haven't been quite so honest in our opinions leading into Schmidt's tenure.

by GunsGerms Tue 11 Feb 2014, 10:45 am

Yeah Toner has been class too as has Tuohy when he has featured. Shame he got injured. Rory Best has been and continues to be one of our best players over the last few years. Even Sexton's kicking seems to have improved a little bit.

by Mickado Tue 11 Feb 2014, 10:53 am

If Zebo was from Dublin he'd be lumped in with Heaslip as the flash, lad about town, with his hair and his stupid trousers and his face.

But he's from Cark so he's a salt o' de eartt type of lad...

by GunsGerms Tue 11 Feb 2014, 10:57 am

Mickado wrote:If Zebo was from Dublin he'd be lumped in with Heaslip as the flash, lad about town, with his hair and his stupid trousers and his face.

But he's from Cark so he's a salt o' de eartt type of lad...

Sure he is a bit of a character, that's all.

by **Notch** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:07 am

ME-109 wrote:Was waiting for the bit of begrudgery to be thrown in...talented and exciting rugby player...too big for his boots...shock!!! Headline in the Indo (or probably the Times Guns/Liam) tomorrow.

But enough about Jamie Heaslip...

by GunsGerms Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:11 am

Jamie really is the unsung hero so far. Leader of the tackle count, captained the team for most of our two matches so far, looked good doing it, got swagger, joint top try scorer, owns a restaraunt, wears Dr Dre Beats a lot.

Should he just be handed the captaincy now permenantly? Surely he has proved he is a decent captain now?

by san Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:12 am

Whilst I would be more than happy to stick with Trimble and Kearney for the England match, one thing Zebo would bring is outright speed, something we don't have a lot of in our backline.

I think we will see minimal rotation for England, a few changes at home for Italy and back to the Status Quo for France.

by **Notch** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:14 am

The unsung hero who won man of the match in the first game? Hmm! Smile

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:16 am

SecretFly wrote:
It's something to do with what we were all shouting about before Kidney left, Rodders - a squad, not a special team. A real squad, really in the mix... shifting and changing to suit a game...surprising the opposition.

I thought we were all on board on that objective to widen the gene pool in case of another Irish classic sequence of injuries to main men???

Well no, I think that would be missing the point. The problem under Kidney wasn't a lack of rotation it was that quite often his rotation and substitutions including lack thereof often made no sense in the context of either the games, tactics or bigger picture - they were knee jerk reactions or stubborn refusals to bow to pressure.

The public were confused and so were the players and no one knows were they stood.

What I wanted and expected from Joe was clarity, a clear game plan -attacking and defensive patterns and the selections of players to fit the systems -short term objectives working in tandem with longer term objectives.

Part of that is rotation, using the bench - but its also about sending players back to their provinces with clarity as to why they aren't selected. Schmidt did it with Trimble, Cave, Marshall etc. now with Zebo - he obviously sees things in Trimble and K2, on and off the ball, that he doesn't in Zebo.

He isn't picking the best players per se, rather the best players to do a specific job, that they both understand, and that that job is the best job to be doing in specific circumstances. That's exactly what I hoped and expected from Joe and so far it looks good.

by Scrumpy Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:22 am

I'd drop BOD he looks way of the pace and doesn't offer much.

by GunsGerms Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:22 am

Notch wrote:The unsung hero who won man of the match in the first game? Hmm!

He should be man pre awarded man of the match every match for being such a boss.

You either got it or you dont.

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:33 am

Scrumpy wrote:I'd drop BOD he looks way of the pace and doesn't offer much.

Course you would Scrumpy...Course you would Wink

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:39 am

rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
It's something to do with what we were all shouting about before Kidney left, Rodders - a squad, not a special team. A real squad, really in the mix... shifting and changing to suit a game...surprising the opposition.

I thought we were all on board on that objective to widen the gene pool in case of another Irish classic sequence of injuries to main men???

Well no, I think that would be missing the point. The problem under Kidney wasn't a lack of rotation it was that quite often his rotation and substitutions including lack thereof often made no sense in the context of either the games, tactics or bigger picture - they were knee jerk reactions or stubborn refusals to bow to pressure.

The public were confused and so were the players and no one knows were they stood.

What I wanted and expected from Joe was clarity, a clear game plan -attacking and defensive patterns and the selections of players to fit the systems -short term objectives working in tandem with longer term objectives.

Part of that is rotation, using the bench - but its also about sending players back to their provinces with clarity as to why they aren't selected. Schmidt did it with Trimble, Cave, Marshall etc. now with Zebo - he obviously sees things in Trimble and K2, on and off the ball, that he doesn't in Zebo.

He isn't picking the best players per se, rather the best players to do a specific job, that they both understand, and that that job is the best job to be doing in specific circumstances. That's exactly what I hoped and expected from Joe and so far it looks good.

All that presumes though that Ireland might not have won as comfortably and wouldn't have scored as highly (or even higher) with a different selection of players to the ones reassured and comforted by Schmidt. Who is to know and how can we know unless we test a few experiments out?

No, Schmidt has hinted that reward will be needed and interest will need to be maintained for some other players on the fringes who are either doing enough off a bench, or enough in training, or enough in Provinces to rate a run (or a longer run at any rate, as he alluded to)
Not wholesale changes to disrupt a rhythm but some changes to keep it fresh and secure the squad growth part of his plan.

by Scrumpy Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:40 am

SecretFly wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:I'd drop BOD he looks way of the pace and doesn't offer much.

Course you would Scrumpy...Course you would

He has said its his last 6 nations I believe, Ireland need to fill the void he'll leave behind at some point so it might as well do it now.

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:46 am

SecretFly wrote:
No, Schmidt has hinted that reward will be needed and interest will need to be maintained for some other players on the fringes who are either doing enough off a bench, or enough in training, or enough in Provinces to rate a run (or a longer run at any rate, as he alluded to)
Not wholesale changes to disrupt a rhythm but some changes to keep it fresh and secure the squad growth part of his plan.

And I agree but I think changes will be geared at those who aren't deemed to be firing on all cylinders to squeeze some more out of them. I think we'll see changes at left wing, scrum half and tight head, maybe open side over the next 3 games but more than likely they will come at the home game v Italy.

With 2 weeks off I can't see Joe changing much against England when much of the template to beat them is already in place.

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:58 am

Scrumpy wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:I'd drop BOD he looks way of the pace and doesn't offer much.

Course you would Scrumpy...Course you would

He has said its his last 6 nations I believe, Ireland need to fill the void he'll leave behind at some point so it might as well do it now.

Plenty of time After this 6N. Two games won easily is enough for now. You're too much of a perfectionist Scrumpy. You just worry about Care. Protect him. He's England's Holy Grail player right now Wink

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 12:04 pm

rodders wrote:

With 2 weeks off I can't see Joe changing much against England when much of the template to beat them is already in place.

Not so sure, Rodders. England aren't Wales. Schmidt himself might/could possibly be planning a completely different game for them. (my gut is saying its a real possibility). So the players that did the bizz against Wales with one gameplan ain't necessarily the ones for England. But we'll see. All we're doing is rambling this far out.

by ME-109 Tue 11 Feb 2014, 12:14 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Jamie really is the unsung hero so far. Leader of the tackle count, captained the team for most of our two matches so far, looked good doing it, got swagger, joint top try scorer, owns a restaraunt, wears Dr Dre Beats a lot.

Should he just be handed the captaincy now permenantly? Surely he has proved he is a decent captain now?

What was that about gushing praise yesterday Guns...get a room ffs Laugh

by GunsGerms Tue 11 Feb 2014, 12:32 pm

Do you reckon DOD that Heaslip is Ireland's best 8 of all time? Does anyone even come close?

He has the exact same amount of caps as Anthony Foley, yet more tries, more trophies at international level and club level, more Lions caps, more world player of the year nominations, more testosterone. Heaslip by a landslide? Thoughts?

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 12:38 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Do you reckon DOD that Heaslip is Ireland's best 8 of all time? Does anyone even come close?

He has the exact same amount of caps as Anthony Foley, yet more tries, more trophies at international level and club level, more Lions caps, more world player of the year nominations, more testosterone. Heaslip by a landslide? Thoughts?

Can't argue with that...and he has the burden of not being part of the Golden Generation too!!! That should give him a few extra brownie points.

by ME-109 Tue 11 Feb 2014, 1:25 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Do you reckon DOD that Heaslip is Ireland's best 8 of all time? Does anyone even come close?

He has the exact same amount of caps as Anthony Foley, yet more tries, more trophies at international level and club level, more Lions caps, more world player of the year nominations, more testosterone. Heaslip by a landslide? Thoughts?

No...

Willie Duggan all the way followed by Jim McCarthy.

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 1:32 pm

SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

With 2 weeks off I can't see Joe changing much against England when much of the template to beat them is already in place.

Not so sure, Rodders. England aren't Wales.

Neither were Scotland but we used the same game plan against both. The high balls are likely to be an even more effective ploy against England's back3 so I expect that tactic to be used even more, not less.

The maul I'm not so sure will be effective but the tight 5 is pretty settled. If there's a change in personnel or tactic it will be at 9 but I think Reddan will come on late and speed things up.

I don't think this is rambling at all fly, Schmidt is not a coach who springs surprises - he picks a certain type of player and is pretty consistent and conservative come the big games. He likes well rounded footballers who work hard, do the basics well and make very few errors.

Apart from rotating his back row and scrumhalves he rarely made changes at Leinster.

He has never been know to go for finishers on the wing, at Leinster he preferred the wings to be creative players through the middle as playmakers and also everyone in the backs to be able to operate as auxiliary opensides on the deck.

Trimble and K2 aren't picked at random, they've been picked for specific attributes. If they are to be replaced it will be by McFadden, Fitzgerald or Bowe, not Zebo I have no doubt.

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 2:09 pm

rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:

With 2 weeks off I can't see Joe changing much against England when much of the template to beat them is already in place.

Not so sure, Rodders. England aren't Wales.

Neither were Scotland but we used the same game plan against both.

Well Rodders...we only played one team (Wales) and made it look easy....and more importantly, Wales weren't expecting that gameplan! - even though they'd seen it in kinda operation the week before.

So either I think like Gatland and am very cautious about Schmidt and what he might play like OR Schmidt is to become a one trick pony in style and substance; after all, "if it keeps winnin' then why change it?" might be the growing policy amongst coaches, players and fans alike?

I don't think that's how he's thinking. The Welsh game was 80 minutes of an Aspect of his intentions for this team. Only a factor of a more wholesome plan. He'll be practicing other aspects as his players get up to speed with his wishes and ways. Sexton is saying We haven't shown our full hand yet - I believe him and I think it mightn't even appear in the England game or this 6N.

Schmidt is very conscious of the mistakes he made at Leinster when he first came in - the players were all over the place learning new things and got off to a very slow start. He always mentions it and it probably haunts him to an extent. He's so conscious of how quickly you can become a devil as coach and has had many laughs with Leinster fans about how he was almost kicked out before he got bedded in. "You like me now but you weren't too fond of me in the first few weeks" is always his sly little smiling point. So he's bedding down his principles behind the scenes and there'll be more from this team.... again, maybe not so much in this 6N.

And I'm not being harsh on Scotland because I think they have a coach now who thinks more of his comical sound bytes than his coaching - but Scotland weren't a team...and ironically, we made hard, hard work of it in the first half!

We shall see where the adventure takes us, Rodders. I'm all aboard for the ride.

by Mickado Tue 11 Feb 2014, 2:20 pm

On Off the Ball yesterday Sexton was asked about the game, was he happy that they were able to go out with a gameplan and execute it ruthlessly?

He said that he was delighted that they done what they done, but that they had a few other moves that just didn’t happen, a few quick taps they should have taken, a few breaks they should have followed with more resources (I’m guessing he’s talking about Trimbles break there).

I think they had a plan B in case plan A didn’t work, but against Scotland and Wales it did so they kept it up, the challenge here will be to see if they can change tact mid game.

by lostinwales Tue 11 Feb 2014, 2:28 pm

rodders wrote:...
...
Neither were Scotland but we used the same game plan against both. The high balls are likely to be an even more effective ploy against England's back3 so I expect that tactic to be used even more, not less.
...

I do find this a very interesting question. As far as I can tell the irish back 3 are taller than their English opponents, so if the kicking is pinpoint they might be able to pressure and/or outreach our guys- but all 3 of them have experience playing at FB and shouldnt mess up. Given any space they are all good counter attackers too. I dont think you have anyone anywhere near as fast as May for instance

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 2:38 pm

I thought we saw glimpses of plan b at the end of the Scotland game Mick when Boss and Cronin came on and they kept the ball in hand more.

fly I don't think we are in danger of being one trick ponies at all but there are things Schmidt consistently bases his attack on, like the minimal numbers in the breakdown - this only works if every player picked is strong over the ball and able to clear out quickly. this won't change. Players not string at the breakdown or contact won't be picked, no chance.

The kick chase is a tactic that we are strong at and most of the other teams aren't - that is why we use it and will continue to.

I think Schmidt has made us unpredictable by using predictable tactics that are hard to predict - like the maul and high ball.

Unlike the bash it up using O'Brien/Healy/Ferris, type predictable tactic that is easy to predict that we have relied on in the past.

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 2:40 pm

lostinwales wrote:
rodders wrote:...
...
Neither were Scotland but we used the same game plan against both. The high balls are likely to be an even more effective ploy against England's back3 so I expect that tactic to be used even more, not less.
...

I do find this a very interesting question. As far as I can tell the irish back 3 are taller than their English opponents, so if the kicking is pinpoint they might be able to pressure and/or outreach our guys- but all 3 of them have experience playing at FB and shouldnt mess up. Given any space they are all good counter attackers too. I dont think you have anyone anywhere near as fast as May for instance

Wales are one of the best counter attackers in the game..... we fed them for an entire second half last year and they welcomed the invite with open arms. Fast? Welsh players are no slouches there either. I don't think this has become an instantly bad Welsh side (I'll be surprised to an extent if they don't perform to ruthless standards at least once in this tournament) But the point about the Welsh game is that their speed was closed down. It's not that they couldn't turn it on themselves, they were stopped from doing so.
Will the same plan work against England? I'm not so sure. Rodders is. That's the beauty. Two coaches now all eyes on working out how to break down their opponent.

by **Notch** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 2:47 pm

We won't go out and play the same game plan against England anyway. The specifics of where and how we attack them will very obviously be different on the day. Even if we use the rolling maul as much, the maul moves we use will be tweaked to target what the coaches and analysts have identified as the weaknesses in Englands defensive maul as opposed to the Welsh defensive maul. And so on.

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 2:50 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Will the same plan work against England? I'm not so sure. Rodders is. That's the beauty. Two coaches now all eyes on working out how to break down their opponent.

Well no - not sure, as sure as against Wales, its a high risk strategy because the kicks have to be accurate and the chase has to be good otherwise we are in trouble.

However we don't have the power to run over teams, nor the pace to run around them from set plays. What we have are back 3 players who are very strong under the high ball who can get us in behind the defence by competing in the air and also putting pressure on the opposition to conceding the scrum or lineout.

It's very effective, especially in wet conditions....and away from home.

I have no doubt there is much more up the sleeve but in the first half at least I'd be very surprised if we don't use similar tactics against the English back 3.

I think we'll use the maul more as a decoy though - England will do loads of analysis on our lineout and maul and I bet Schmidt will have a number of new attacking moves off the lineout that we haven't seen.

by lostinwales Tue 11 Feb 2014, 2:53 pm

SecretFly wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
rodders wrote:...
...
Neither were Scotland but we used the same game plan against both. The high balls are likely to be an even more effective ploy against England's back3 so I expect that tactic to be used even more, not less.
...

I do find this a very interesting question. As far as I can tell the irish back 3 are taller than their English opponents, so if the kicking is pinpoint they might be able to pressure and/or outreach our guys- but all 3 of them have experience playing at FB and shouldnt mess up. Given any space they are all good counter attackers too. I dont think you have anyone anywhere near as fast as May for instance

Wales are one of the best counter attackers in the game..... we fed them for an entire second half last year and they welcomed the invite with open arms. Fast? Welsh players are no slouches there either. I don't think this has become an instantly bad Welsh side (I'll be surprised to an extent if they don't perform to ruthless standards at least once in this tournament) But the point about the Welsh game is that their speed was closed down. It's not that they couldn't turn it on themselves, they were stopped from doing so.
Will the same plan work against England? I'm not so sure. Rodders is. That's the beauty. Two coaches now all eyes on working out how to break down their opponent.

Its fun. Looking at the Welsh wingers they are both big guys who depend on momentum more than agility. Cuthbert is lethal when he is at speed, and we all know about North. Catch either before they have got up to speed and they are easier targets. I just think the English guys wont need anything like as much space to start causing trouble

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 3:00 pm

rodders wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

However we don't have the power to run over teams, nor the pace to run around them from set plays.

Now that's where we collide both on theory and on players used to do so.

But we'll see. We'll see Rodders. Like I said, I think Schmidt will develop slowly ... and aspects will get a showing but perhaps infrequently in this current 6N.

If he can win with the Wales gameplan then he might try it a while. Plan B will have to be different though if we're not finding traction. There must be a Plan B. There is a Plan B???!!! Tell me there's a Plan B??!!!!!!!!! Someone Please Tell me there's a Plan B!!!!!!

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 3:03 pm

There's a plan b and plan c, d and e.

Lets not give up on plan a because it doesn't involve simon zebedee and requires a 6'2 plus Ulsterman on the right wing though ..... angel

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 3:09 pm

Remember what I said about D Kearney...this is no Provincial war with me. Trimble I like a lot. No problemo with his Provincial shirt colour. No problemo with him playing more games for us. Have a special affection for him because of his declaration about who he'd play with in the eventuality of an Olympic rugby event (way back a few years ago)

Trimble good. Gameplan and gametime given to other zips is the argument. Wink

Peace be upon you, brother Rodders.

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