England vs Wales 9th March

First topic message reminder :

Let's look towards the next game after getting ourselves back on track against France, just like last year, after the Irish put the spanner in the works.

A spring day and firm turf just right for high pace high intensity rugby for 80 minutes. Just what the Welsh front row don't want. Their only chance is to slow the game down whenever they can. Expect large portions of dirt diving.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:England are big favs at the bookies- approx 1.5's in decimal or 1/2, Wales are approx 3's or 2/1

Sorry but that is excellent value on Wales isnt it. Given Englands front row problems, its the usual heavy home bettining skewing the odds.

Have wales front row been outstanding ? Adam Jones certainly isnt the force he was.

Joe Marler still gets criticism despite being excellent so far this when is he going to get the praise he deserves? ...and Hartley has been outstanding...

Yes theyve been back on form, certainly last time out anyway cheating or not. They munched England last year, and this year England are potentially missing 3 props and have struggled through the tournament, especially in the last game.

Is it at all unreasonable to suggest its one area that Wales would be expected to have the upper hand? Does anyone think they will try and do anything other play for scrums and then play for penalties? Its like asking what Woodwards tactics would be against Australia.

gregortree wrote:2012 = bookies fancied Wales: from the link:

"Despite home advantage and the growing team spirit of the new look England, all the evidence suggests they are still some way short of matching what we know the Welsh are capable of. The sensible play has to be to back the visitors at 4/6 in the Match Betting market "


2014 = bookies fancy England 1:2 on

!

2012 the wall of money was in Wales' favour. 2014 it is England'a way.
Having mentioned that, I agree with PSW comment on England's front row.
It was a notable weakness at the Millenium 2013 and England have lost the first 2 prop choices to injury.
Against that we have: AJ and Gethin being a year older, No Walsh, the HQ factor.
The front row is hard to call for  me, although I'll take an honourabkle draw in that dept, minimal penalties I hope.
Centre field needs to improve too.
And then I'd be happy to leave the rest to England's 2nd/ back rows, SH back 3 to do their magic.
Its still 50/50 in my head.

I also think Marler is a much better player this year

lostinwales wrote:I also think Marler is a much better player this year

good point, plus Hartley is in royal form, hope he lasts beyond 60. So not all bad.

gregortree wrote:

No Walsh, the HQ factor.

"Graham Rowntree last night delivered a glowing tribute to Wales’ 15 Lions and admitted he can fully understand why Gethin Jenkins and his men thrashed England at the Millennium Stadium.

Red Rose forwards coach Rowntree had originally questioned the decision-making of referee Steve Walsh after Wales obliterated England at the scrum to run out stunning 30-3 victors and take the Six Nations title.

But, having spent the past 10 days working closely with those Welsh stars as the Lions prepare to head to Australia, Rowntree says he can see exactly why England were so comprehensively defeated in that big Championship decider."

Maes
Glad Rowntree has figured it out then. He will surely bring what he learned on the Lions tour to England training.
But I am truly relieved Walsh will be nowhere near.
I agree the Welsh front row remain a significant test for England.
Have concerns about England's first choice TH prop being on injury list, so Wilson has a big task ahead.

gregortree wrote:Maes
Glad Rowntree has figured it out then. He will surely bring what he learned on the Lions tour to England training.
But I am truly relieved Walsh will be nowhere near.
I agree the Welsh front row remain a significant test for England.
Have concerns about England's first choice TH prop being on injury list, so Wilson has a big task ahead.

It is crazy to believe that England lost by that margn because of the referee. Referees interpret the rules of the game In different ways, unfortunately that is the way the game is adjudicated.

But as Rowntree says, Walsh was not the issue. The welsh scrum was just that much better than England.

I doubt that this will be as significant as the breakdown in this game, though Monsieur Poite is as black and whit about the scrum as many other no nonsense refs like Walsh or Owens.

maestegmafia wrote:

gregortree wrote:Maes
Glad Rowntree has figured it out then. He will surely bring what he learned on the Lions tour to England training.
But I am truly relieved Walsh will be nowhere near.
I agree the Welsh front row remain a significant test for England.
Have concerns about England's first choice TH prop being on injury list, so Wilson has a big task ahead.

It is crazy to believe that England lost by that margn because of the referee. Referees interpret the rules of the game In different ways, unfortunately that a the way the game is adjudicated.

But as Rowntree says, Walsh was not the issue. The welsh scrum was just that much better than England.

I doubt that this will be as significant as the breakdown in this game, though Monsieur Poite is as black and whit about the scrum as many other no nonsense refs like Walsh or Owens.

     

Now I have recovered a little - referees can have a huge impact on the margin, little things like how far you let advantage go, policing one side harder than the other etc. You do have to trust to referees being impartial and accept that they are human and make mistakes while hoping the mistakes even up.

I don't have a problem with England losing last year, but I never want to see Walsh reffing us again.

He also said they were cheating to be fair!

No 7&1/2 wrote:He also said they were cheating to be fair!

Well I don't have a problem with a team 'cheating' as long as no one gets hurt. It is up to the officials to spot stuff and manage it. If Jones got away with illegal binds all day last year and didnt get penalised then it shows that he is a smart and capable player and that the officials are useless

I agree completely. Get away with what you can.

Your own forwards coach admits that he as wrong, that the welsh were not cheating, that the referee was correct, and you guys still carry on that you lost because of a biased referee not because you were the weaker team.

You are dillusional.

No he didn't

maestegmafia wrote:Your own forwards coach admits that he as wrong, that the welsh were not cheating, that the referee was correct, and you guys still carry on that you lost because of a biased referee not because you were the weaker team.

You are dillusional.

You might want to look at the timing of the statement and think why he would come out and say he was wrong.

maestegmafia wrote:Your own forwards coach admits that he as wrong, that the welsh were not cheating, that the referee was correct, and you guys still carry on that you lost because of a biased referee not because you were the weaker team.

You are dillusional delusional mended that for you.

As I have said before, England lost to a better side last March, no argument.

But as the old saying goes:
"Forwards win games, Walsh decides by how many "  

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Your own forwards coach admits that he as wrong, that the welsh were not cheating, that the referee was correct, and you guys still carry on that you lost because of a biased referee not because you were the weaker team.

You are dillusional.

You might want to look at the timing of the statement and think why he would come out and say he was wrong.

It was just after he started working the Welsh front row.

maestegmafia wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Your own forwards coach admits that he as wrong, that the welsh were not cheating, that the referee was correct, and you guys still carry on that you lost because of a biased referee not because you were the weaker team.

You are dillusional.

You might want to look at the timing of the statement and think why he would come out and say he was wrong.

It was just after he started working the Welsh front row.

... and he desperately wanted to be the Lions pack coach with his new British best buddies.

Rowntree was already the Lions coach at that point. Goodness knows why he would want to point out anything untoward about his own forwards at that time. All he said were they have a good set of forwards, well coached etc. Nothing about Walsh or retracting his previous queries about the official on that day. I also haven't seen very many people say we lost because of Walsh. We were well beaten.

gregortree wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Your own forwards coach admits that he as wrong, that the welsh were not cheating, that the referee was correct, and you guys still carry on that you lost because of a biased referee not because you were the weaker team.

You are dillusional.

You might want to look at the timing of the statement and think why he would come out and say he was wrong.

It was just after he started working the Welsh front row.

... and he desperately wanted to be the Lions pack coach with his new British best buddies.

Rowntree was announced as forwards coach of the lions in December 2012. Three months before Wales beat England.

maestegmafia wrote:

gregortree wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Your own forwards coach admits that he as wrong, that the welsh were not cheating, that the referee was correct, and you guys still carry on that you lost because of a biased referee not because you were the weaker team.

You are dillusional.

You might want to look at the timing of the statement and think why he would come out and say he was wrong.

It was just after he started working the Welsh front row.

... and he desperately wanted to be the Lions pack coach with his new British best buddies.

Rowntree was announced as forwards coach of the lions in December 2012. Three months before Wales beat England.

He knew Gats was going to pick the Welsh forwards in Australia so he let them win to boost their pre-Lions confidence levels Wot a cute man that Rowntree is.

At least Rowntree never dropped BOD, eh Secret ?

But Rowntree learned from the Welsh boys.
Was most recently working Dan Cole into a newer version of Adam Jones, but sadly injured him in the process.

gregortree wrote:At least Rowntree never dropped BOD, eh Secret ?

But Rowntree learned from the Welsh boys.
Was most recently working Dan Cole into a newer version of  Adam Jones, but sadly injured him in the process.

Gene splicing would be much quicker (and then grow the result in a jet powered test tube) but obviously billions more expensive. So yeah, a pity about Cole. He'll be an experiment in cold freeze in Poland now as he recuperates for the WC.

Polish deep freeze explains Wales success at the RWC ?
So can we microwave Dan to speed things up ?

gregortree wrote: Polish deep freeze explains Wales success at the RWC ?
So can we microwave Dan to speed things up ?

Shush on that one, gregor.  Gats only told those non-Welsh players who needed to know about all of that when training down-under.  So needless to say, BOD wasn't the guy who told me.............  

Never micro-wave a cryogenically frozen experiment.... especially if it's human!!  First law of a school lab.  And students know all about it as often it's a cryogenically frozen experiment who teaches the subject to them.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i can't see past an England win to be honest due to home advantage but then again lancasters England have not beaten Wales nor have they scored a try against us

has Twickenham been moved since 2012?

SecretFly wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

gregortree wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Your own forwards coach admits that he as wrong, that the welsh were not cheating, that the referee was correct, and you guys still carry on that you lost because of a biased referee not because you were the weaker team.

You are dillusional.

You might want to look at the timing of the statement and think why he would come out and say he was wrong.

It was just after he started working the Welsh front row.

... and he desperately wanted to be the Lions pack coach with his new British best buddies.

Rowntree was announced as forwards coach of the lions in December 2012. Three months before Wales beat England.

He knew Gats was going to pick the Welsh forwards in Australia so he let them win to boost their pre-Lions confidence levels  Wot a cute man that Rowntree is.  

Evening Fly

Rowntree has just been re-iterating the respect he as for the Welsh front row on the BBC

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

RDSguru wrote:noun
noun: banter

   

Crossing the line

Phrase: Unheard by Leigh Halfpenny

 

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

RDSguru wrote:noun
noun: banter

   1.
   the playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks.
   "there was much good-natured banter"
   synonyms: repartee, raillery, ripostes, sallies, swordplay, quips, wisecracks, crosstalk, wordplay; More
   badinage, witty conversation, witty remarks, witticism(s), joking, jesting, jocularity, drollery;
   bons mots;
   informalkidding, ribbing, joshing;
   rarepersiflage
   "a brief exchange of harmless banter"

verb
verb: banter; 3rd person present: banters; past tense: bantered; past participle: bantered; gerund or present participle: bantering

   1.
   exchange remarks in a good-humoured teasing way.
   "the men bantered with the waitresses"
   synonyms: joke, jest, pun, sally, quip;

Crossing the line

Phrase: Unheard by Leigh Halfpenny when playing England as he has never conceded an England try under Lancaster

Can we cancel our order for 1 million Grand Slam T shirts?

Phrase : heard with monotonous regularity by Nike RFU Account Exec.

All this is chaf about Walsh is dull. Although Wales got some kickable penalties the main reason why they win is because the second half England crumbled and frankly looked unfit. It was pretty much all square around half time.

Both Wales tries came from depth - neither from scrums. Walsh didn't make Tualagi drop the ball in the first five mins or Robshaw drop an easy take to give Wales field position. These were the turning points of the game not the ref.

England's obsession with the refs and scrums could be their down fall on Sunday. They just need to get the ball out quick because Morgan, Care, Brown and Farrel are the danger men and if Tualagi is fit then they have the ammunition to create and score against North charging up and missing tackles.

England favourites?

All the home money has skewed the pot, fact is, Lancaster's ENGLAND HAVE NEVER SCORED A TRY V WALES let alone beaten them, and lost their last two games home and away

Course they are favourites. They're England.

Last time Wales were bookies favourites..what happened ?

gregortree wrote:Last time Wales were bookies favourites..what happened ?

They probably never were, they weren't last year (obviously another English Grand Slam campaign was carrying the odds then) in 2012 it was in Twickenham so, like this year home advantage would mean more home win bets....basically England are always favourites. And you can see why.

Scratch wrote:

gregortree wrote:Last time Wales were bookies favourites..what happened ?

They probably never were, they weren't last year (obviously another English Grand Slam campaign was carrying the odds then) in 2012 it was in Twickenham so, like this year home advantage would mean more home win bets....basically England are always favourites. And you can see why.

Bookies 2012 had Wales odds on. The actual result followed the odds.

gregortree wrote:Last time Wales were bookies favourites..what happened ?

Friday 4th February 2011
Saturday 25th Feb 2012.

Both occasions Wales were favourites (thus weight of money was laid on them) going into the game.

LT stop confusing Scratch.

Who can guess which of those two matches was refereed by Steve Walsh...........and which by Allain Rolland

gregortree wrote:Last time Wales were bookies favourites..what happened ?

so what's your point if indeed you even have one?

2014. What happened ?

that the bookies tend to get things right. as in they predicted Wales win in 2012 at HQ.

fingers crossed they get it right this year too

As Wales are the New France ie. as consistent as school custard, the bookies may have got it wrong.

So which Wales will turn up ?

gregortree wrote:So which Wales will turn up ?

Predictably, this one (apparently)

1/2P, Cuffbutt, Davies, Roberts, North, Priestland, Webb, Jenkins, Hibbard, Jones, AWJ, Charteris, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau.

I wonder, the Championship winning Wales or the Grand Slam winning Wales……for the sake of England fans deluding themselves with their 'consistent' 2nd place in the 6 Nations, we can't win the Slam this year and nor can you.

More important is which England will show up, the 'consistent' runners up or the side-built-around-manu, or the team that hasn't beaten Wales under Lancaster.

Whichever it is, they will be favorites, lets hope they score a try this time.

Which Wales will turn up? I'll think they'll play just as well as they did aganst France - but I'm not sure that will be good enough against England. France fluffed a few chances.

I think the welsh defence will be meaner than Ireland's. Everyone has their eye on Jamie Roberts crash ball , but it's his defence that catches my eye. Just watch his tackling in the lions final test

gregortree wrote:So which Wales will turn up ?

as i said, you clearly have no point

Slightly off topic - anyone know if the 606v2 mobile interface can be improve?

slartibartfast wrote:As Wales are the New France ie. as consistent as school custard, the bookies may have got it wrong.

This one, or one of them anyway.

Scratch wrote:

gregortree wrote:So which Wales will turn up ?

as i said, you clearly have no point

Correct, it's a question.

Scratch wrote:

gregortree wrote:So which Wales will turn up ?

as i said, you clearly have no point

Thats not fair we got 10 last time

Why are so many posters are avoiding this thread... unlike the joyful banter & discussion on the England v Ireland epic 3 threads?