England vs Wales 9th March

First topic message reminder :

Let's look towards the next game after getting ourselves back on track against France, just like last year, after the Irish put the spanner in the works.

Walsh will flag in all game, like he thinks he should be the ref.

Can't wait to see handsome Steve on the big screen flagging for illegal English scrummaging. Please can somebody stop Dylan standing up? Have the courage Roman.

Risca Rev wrote:Can't wait to see handsome Steve on the big screen flagging for illegal English scrummaging. Please can somebody stop Dylan standing up? Have the courage Roman.

Perhaps with a better view from the sidelines he'll spot Adam Jones's binding first.

I doubt it. Seems to be acceptable despite the apparent ruling.

Risca Rev wrote:I doubt it. Seems to be acceptable despite the apparent ruling.

Which is why England fans have such a big problem with it.

There's no "apparent ruling" about it. The laws say unambiguously that props shall bind on the body, and not the arm. It's hard to imagine a bind that is less legal or less conducive to a successful scrum (it's designed specifically to allow him to break the LH's bind by pulling straight down on the arm). It ought to be one of the first things the referee checks (can't have a legal scrum without legal binds. An illegal bind is the first offence, anything after it is null). There is no excuse for it with the current engagement, since the bind can be made under no pressure. It isn't even hard to spot. And yet it is repeatedly ignored.

How anyone can hold that up as acceptable refereeing is beyond me.

I know the laws, but plenty of props get away with it still. I tend to blame passive touchjudges more than anything. Just hope Wales have somebody like Sir Steve Walsh on the line, as he knows what he is on about in the scrum. Wait a minute

I've said before that very few refs know what's going on at scrum time and any prop will get away with what he can. Whilst its not as dog eat dog in the front row as it once was there's still a bit of gamesmanship there.

gregortree wrote:Walsh will flag in all game, like he thinks he should be the ref.

Persecuting the man and the game is still days away? Why not watch with an open mind and evaluate his performance objectively?

GloriousEmpire wrote:

gregortree wrote:Walsh will flag in all game, like he thinks he should be the ref.

Persecuting the man and the game is still days away? Why not watch with an open mind and evaluate his performance objectively?

GE it's only pre match banter... about Wales' points machine.
I didn't realise Walsh read these threads but Steve if you are reading, please don't take it as persecution.
Just a bit of pre match chatter.
Rider: No players were harmed in the making of this thread.

Most players and refs are capable of rising above it, Nigel Owens had said before he just smiles and nods if he gets any grief and not sure if it was shown on tv but at the start of the French game Roland appeared on the big screen and was bood by all quarters, he just smiled at eben waved at the crowd.

Poorfour wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:I doubt it. Seems to be acceptable despite the apparent ruling.

Which is why England fans have such a big problem with it.

There's no "apparent ruling" about it. The laws say unambiguously that props shall bind on the body, and not the arm. It's hard to imagine a bind that is less legal or less conducive to a successful scrum (it's designed specifically to allow him to break the LH's bind by pulling straight down on the arm). It ought to be one of the first things the referee checks (can't have a legal scrum without legal binds. An illegal bind is the first offence, anything after it is null). There is no excuse for it with the current engagement, since the bind can be made under no pressure. It isn't even hard to spot. And yet it is repeatedly ignored.

How anyone can hold that up as acceptable refereeing is beyond me.

Hallelujah ! A man after my own heart. Get this sorted & a straight put in & the game will be a whole lot better. It really isn't that hard to do. It just requires the IRB to be strict with the refs & enforce it!

Telegraph reporting Manu T not in the 23 (wrong there Mr Edwards) & Tom J on the bench.
So should Morgan get injured then Tom Wood covers 8 otherwise same team that beat the Oirish.

Its also explicit in the laws that as soon as the scrum collapses it should be whistled dead and reset. How often do we see the referees ignore that because the balls coming out? If they strictly enforced the laws we could get the resets we all want.

Regarding the set scrum:

Well, the IRB have simplified the interpretations just about as much as they can.

Unequivocally there are just three phases:
Set fair and square
Steady
Feed straight down the middle and push/strike.

Like any other interpretations were ever required. No Laws have changed.

I cannot understand why devious coaches and front fives have been allowed to get with constant collapses and re-sets.

Referees are simply not doing their jobs.
Miscreant scrum halves and props in particular should be pinged off the park until they learn. Even Rolland saw to that (belatedly) when he carded Jenkins and Mas. And Rolland is/was just about the worst ref of the scrum as you could imagine.

The alternative would be for the IRB to capitulate to calls from the likes of GE and replace the whole spectacle with a tap penalty or a RL look-alike.

Tom Johnson has packed down at 8 all season for Exeter, it's only in broken play that Ewers plays 8. I'm sure that if Morgan gets injured he will come on.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26437609

Gatland talking up his favourite player again, mentioning the world class tag (not something we have heard Welsh players be called. )


To be fair to Gatland other than the over used "world class" he makes quite a few good points.


So why does Taulupe/Toby Faletau not want to be known as Toby anymore?

Perhaps hes fed up of being taken for a mug?

He was only using Toby as it was easier for people to say/remember as far as I know. Probably just wants to use his real name. He may have the same problem Andy Cole had when he wanted to be called Andrew all of a sudden.

 

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Perhaps hes fed up of being taken for a mug?

beshocked wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26437609

Gatland talking up his favourite player again, mentioning the world class tag (not something we have heard Welsh players be called. )


To be fair to Gatland other than the over used "world class" he makes quite a few good points.


So why does Taulupe/Toby Faletau not want to be known as Toby anymore?

Legal issues with the carvery chain...

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Perhaps hes fed up of being taken for a mug?

Surely you mean jug? I think it would be interesting to have a toby jug with his face on it. Perhaps with a beer and pipe of tobacco in each hand  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jug

breadvan but he could have been a brand ambassador.  

no 7 & 1/2 I think Andy Cole (whoever he is) has enough difficulty people knowing who he is in the first place. Certainly with me anyway.

Sorry I've lapsed into football. He scored a few goals.

Didnt he used to be married to someone famous?

lostinwales wrote:Didnt he used to be married to someone famous?

Are you sure you are not getting mixed up with Ashley Cole who is famous for being formerly married to Cheryl Cole (Tweedy)?  

News Shock from the 'Shire: Alex Cuthbert is English

"England winger Jonny May says it is no surprise he finds himself facing old college friend Alex Cuthbert in the crucial Six Nations meeting with Wales at Twickenham on Sunday. The pair were team-mates at Hartpury College in Gloucestershire before turning professional. "He's always been big, fast and strong, and has really developed as a player in the last few years," said May. "He is a good guy, a world-class wing and I will have to be at my best." "

[PS: 'world class' creeping in again. 3 cheers for Hartpury College for services to World rugby.]

gregortree wrote:Walsh will flag in all game, like he thinks he should be the ref.

Good. I'm a big fan of Steve Walsh.

Gatland's mouth wrote:

gregortree wrote:Walsh will flag in all game, like he thinks he should be the ref.

Good. I'm a big fan of Steve Walsh.

You like England's game to not flow... I can understand.

my god i hope Walsh dont put is flag up to disallow an England last minute winning try for a dodgey foot in line   

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Perhaps hes fed up of being taken for a mug?

Very good BOOM BOOM
  

George Carlin wrote:Metal Tiger - using an Exocet missile to crack a nut, there?
Let's all keep it civil please - the game hasn't even started yet.

The Exocet is a (largely obsolete) anti-shipping missile that utilises an all aspect radar lock-on to home it's target. As a result, it is highly unlikely that an Exocet could lock on to a signature as small as a nut. Unless it was George North's collossal cranium of course...

i'll get my coat.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Perhaps hes fed up of being taken for a mug?

Just about fell out of my chair!

Back on topic

If the worst does happen and England lose, should SL and Co look to change the team for the game against Italy or does he stand by them and hope they are quick learners?

Scrumpy wrote:Back on topic

If the worst does happen and England lose, should SL and Co look to change the team for the game against Italy or does he stand by them and hope they are quick learners?

I think the issue is that they have been so keen on just working with the core squad that they would be highly reluctant to go out of that group of players for a game at such short notice. Any changes would only be from that EPS squad and I think that means they would be unlikely to be extensive

Thats fair enough Lostinwales

But would you give the likes of Eastmonds and Ford a run in the team, we know what Farrell can offer but we also know he has an immature edge that will earn him a yellow card or two if he doesn't grow up.

Scrumpy wrote:Back on topic

If the worst does happen and England lose, should SL and Co look to change the team for the game against Italy or does he stand by them and hope they are quick learners?

Depends on how they lose. Match Wales in most areas and lose by less than a score because of a defensive error by, say, Nowell or Johnson or a freak bounce and it's steady as she goes (in fact it has to be - SL has to get the team believing that they can beat Wales, and changing things after a narrow loss is admitting desperation). A repeat of last year, and this time without Walshian assistance, might force bigger changes.

Scrumpy wrote:Thats fair enough Lostinwales

But would you give the likes of Eastmonds and Ford a run in the team, we know what Farrell can offer but we also know he has an immature edge that will earn him a yellow card or two if he doesn't grow up.

I would love to see Eastmond, Ford, Watson, be give a chance against Italy.

Scrumpy wrote:Thats fair enough Lostinwales

But would you give the likes of Eastmonds and Ford a run in the team, we know what Farrell can offer but we also know he has an immature edge that will earn him a yellow card or two if he doesn't grow up.

I'll believe that Farrell can get a yellow card when it happens. A lot is made of the edge and the pressure but he hasnt been carded for England yet that I can remember. As for pressure getting to him well that can happen to anyone, and right now I'd trust him much more than any of our possible alternatives at the moment.

Eastmond is a tricky one. I think having Ford/ Eastmond at 10/12 is just asking for trouble defense wise. I remember watching the Eng Sco A game the other day and, especially when england were defending in their 22 the Scots ran straight at Eastmond every time. Again I think the defensive qualities that Farrell brings is pretty crucial to the way in which we play at the moment.

I do think he has something to offer England, but I would rather see him as a super sub than a starter to be honest. The problem is that he could get picked against Italy one week and look fantastic running them ragged, then against, say, Wales the next and get steamrollered by Roberts every time

lostinwales - that Scot. A game - Are you sure they were running at Eastmond and not targeting the Freddie Burns channel?

There's nothing particularly wrong with Farrell's game. He does tend to kick away good posession at times, but that is becoming less prevalent and he has improved his tackling and attacking game. He has matured hugely in a short space of time and it is important to remember how young he still is, Eastmond/Ford would be a big gamble, and certainly not one to take in light of the upcoming match.

propdavid_london wrote:lostinwales - that Scot. A game - Are you sure they were running at Eastmond and not targeting the Freddie Burns channel?  

I'd have to watch it again to be absolutely sure but that is what struck me at the time. Watching the argentina games over the summer I didnt actually think that Burns' defense was that bad.

I'd also say from the A game that Eastmond was getting his guy down but he just isnt going to be doing the 'offensive' defense that we know and love. Its hard for him to stop a big runner making a yard or 2 in the tackle.

Agree - Eastmonds size is always going to count against him.
Burns was in a good vain of form in Argentina - that has subsequently evaded him since really.
The 10 and 12 have to work together to defend their channel. There arent too many tries scored through the middle against Bath and they have a pretty diminutive 10-12 axis in Ford and Eastmond. Joseph when hes playing isnt the largest either.
True that Devoto is a larger specimen and they have Banahan coming in off his wing for the inside crash ball when needed.

But, its unlikely that we will ever see Ford and Eastmond playing together for England based purely on their size.

My view on Farrell - and I am prepared to be proven wrong - is that he's very similar to Wilkinson. He kicks, he defends, and he tends to create best when he has a creative player around him to call it.

The problem so far has been that England haven't had that creative player. Wilkinson had Greenwood and Catt (and occasionally both). Farrell has had Barritt and Twelvetrees (who we thought could do it but hasn't really done it yet).

To my mind, the crucial change this year has been having Care on the pitch. He is currently bringing the creativity that the rest of the backline hasn't quite found on its own, with the result that England are playing a bit more like a kind of disciplined France (who traditionally play off 9 as much as off 10) than the England of old.

As for petulance, Farrell's a competitor and he's a bit in your face. He's also unusually physical for a 10, and he uses that. I personally didn't think there was much in the late hit against Ireland. He was committed fractionally before the kick was taken; might have done more to get out of the way but he's not required to. It was on the edge, but not over it. I don't have a big problem with that unless he regularly starts to go over it.

We have to try Ford at some point, if we lose to Wales then we might as well try him against Italy rather than giving him the No10 shirt vs the All Blacks (providing Bath don't make the Jeff final that is)

Burns is unlucky that he has been stuck behind a pack that can't scrummage all season, that has knocked him for 6.

Trivia of the day for 606:

"England have never lost at home on the penultimate weekend of a Six Nations championship. They have played at Twickenham nine times in round four and won the lot."

"The referee, Romain Poite, has only refereed one previous Six Nations game at Twickenham, in 2011. England won it."

More trivia of the day

Wales are 3 from 3 v England since before the RWC.

England have never beaten Wales under Lancaster.

England have never scored a try v Wales under Lancaster.

gatland at it again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10679136/Six-Nations-2014-England-v-Wales-will-be-boys-against-men-again-says-Warren-Gatland.html

We'll just have to call it a draw then Scratch.

quinsforever wrote:gatland at it again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10679136/Six-Nations-2014-England-v-Wales-will-be-boys-against-men-again-says-Warren-Gatland.html

Waha !
Gatling Gob rattling his gums in the Torygraph