Ireland vs Italy, 8th March

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND VS ITALY

Date: Saturday, March 8
Kick-off: 14:30 GMT
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant referees: Pascal Gauzère (France), Greg Garner (England)
Television match official: Geoff Warren (England)
Assessor: Andrew Cole (Australia)

IRELAND TEAM wrote:15 Rob Kearney, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Brian O'Driscoll, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Dave Kearney, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Iain Henderson, 5 Paul O'Connell (c), 4 Devin Toner, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Jack McGrath, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Rhys Ruddock, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Paddy Jackson, 23 Fergus McFadden.

ITALY TEAM wrote:15 Luke McLean, 14 Angelo Esposito, 13 Michele Campagnaro, 12 Gonzalo Garcia, 11 Leonardo Sarto, 10 Luciano Orquera, 9 Tito Tebaldi, 8 Robert Barbieri, 7 Paul Derbyshire, 6 Joshua Furno, 5 Marco Bortolami (c), 4 Quentin Geldenhuys, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Alberto de Marchi

16 David Giazzon, 17 Michele Rizzo, 18 Lorenzo Cittadini, 19 Antonio Pavanello, 20 Manoa Vosawai, 21 Edoardo Gori, 22 Tommaso Allan, 23 Andrea Masi

If we win this game by a larger margin than the winners of the other two games achieve then it's very, very simple- we set up a Cup Final for ourselves in Paris to win the Championship. We do already have the best points difference but we have a chance to settle the issue of points difference beyond all doubt and make this a very simple equation. An Ireland win in Paris, and we are champions. We are out to score and Joe Schmidt has named his strongest available team.

Italy have chosen to rotate their squad with half an eye on targeting the final game against England, Sergio Parisse is rested along with the first choice halfbacks in a team with a more experimental look. Tito Tebaldi and Andrea Masi make long awaited returns to the Italian match day squad and Luciano Orquera will hope to recapture the form which saw him perform so well in some famous Italian victories in the 2013 campaign.

There'll be plenty of applause for a retiring legend... but no room for sentiment. A ruthless and clinical performance is required.

In fact, Luke Marshall is not included in the squad for the Italy game because he has picked up a concussion.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29997.php#.UxOOX3mgfwI

IRFU wrote:IRELAND SQUAD (RBS 6 Nations v Italy):

Backs (14) -

Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Forwards (19) -

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Robbie Diack (Malone/Ulster) *
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)

* Denotes uncapped player

Not considered for selection:

Tommy O'Donnell - received a stinger at the weekend and is facing a week's recovery
Tommy Bowe - tightened up after 30 minutes on Friday but finished the half as planned and will continue to follow a staged return to play programme
Isaac Boss - has been given a week off after not having a break since the start of the season
Felix Jones - took a knock to the knee and will be unavailable to train this week. He has been replaced in the squad by Simon Zebo

Italy news;

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/news/21378.php#.UxOQ2HmgfwI

Marshall is going to have to start thinking about wearing a scrum hat. Or one of those Pickelhauben. That would sort a few boys out. Always liked the Prussians myself. Wilhelm II was a bit of a scallywag. Give me William I every day of the week. That was a man with style. Makes Maxime Médard look like a third rate hobo.

Back to Marshall though. I'm worried. That's four in a year and with each one you are more susceptible. Not good news for his career prospects.

Notch wrote:In fact, Luke Marshall is not included in the squad for the Italy game because he has picked up a concussion.

Thats awful for him. Will he have to take an extended break from rugby? Surely he cant keep going like this?

Anyone any figures on how many concussion BOD has gotten throughout his career? It must be a fair few but Marshall cant be that far behind already.

Scrum caps really don't do anything about blows to the head.

They'll just do the usual return to play protocols, I would guess with his history they will take no risks and he'll probably be out for around three weeks minimum. Probably more likely to target the Quarter-final not the end of the Six Nations- at least I hope so. That's common sense. I still feel angry about the way the IRFU handled this last year- no way he should ever have been back on the pitch in the Italy game.

It's so frustrating because Chris Farrell has just announced he's leaving. It might be that we need Farrell to province competition to Olding at 12 long term.

Disappointed for Marshall,these bangs are happening all to often for him.
The only thing scrum caps protect against are minor scratches and bumps.
Is it a given Bod will start on his last home game? If so are darcy and bod certs to start v italy?
Surprised bowe wasn't included but according to the bbc he was tight after the game friday night and 'his staged come back will continue to be managed'.
I would like to see zebo get game time v Italy too.

The only other option at 12 in that squad is Cave. I sincerely doubt they're going to pick BODs 2nd last ever test match to shift him to 12!

Notch wrote:The only other option at 12 in that squad is Cave. I sincerely doubt they're going to pick BODs 2nd last ever test match to shift him to 12!

They may do, but he will wear the 13 shirt anyway. They did it with Earls and BOD in the centres.

How often has cave played 12?

Whatever the reason JS doesn't seem to like cave so cant see him dropping darcy to play cave - would be change for the sake of change. Personally id drop bod for cave (if it wasnt his last home game).

He played there in the Wolfhounds game, and then recently for Ulster. To be honest, now that Marshall is seemingly out of the running I really don't see the point of changing the centres. It would be change for the sake of change.

I would pick;

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Iain Henderson
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Simon Zebo
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Andrew Trimble
15. Rob Kearney

16. Sean Cronin 17. Jack McGrath 18. Martin Moore 19. Devin Toner 20. Jordi Murphy 21. Eoin Reddan 22. Ian Madigan/Jonny Sexton 23. Fergus McFadden

If any winger is dropped though, I think it'll be Trimble not Dave Kearney and I think McFadden would start. I don't expect Zebo to be in the 23. I would maybe think of starting either Moore or McGrath.

If changing the centres is change for change sake what is the logic in replacing Toner who's burgeoning partnership with POC is really starting to bear fruit?

Submachine wrote:If changing the centres is change for change sake what is the logic in replacing Toner who's burgeoning partnership with POC is really starting to bear fruit?

We need more destructive ball carriers in the pack, and Henderson offers that more than anyone else in the squad. Not to mention the fact Henderson is a better player in general. Toner is good, but Hendy has the potential to be world class.

Submachine wrote:If changing the centres is change for change sake what is the logic in replacing Toner who's burgeoning partnership with POC is really starting to bear fruit?

Ball carrying. All about the ball carrying, all about raw power. He offers something very different to Toner. I'd bring Toner back in for France, but whether Henderson plays at lock or blindside in this game we need someone who can get us on the front foot and break tackles. And if we do, well, our centres will look a lot better. I'd certainly start him given our attacking game in this game could make the difference vis a vis the championship.

To be honest, if we had half the depth we had at centre compared to the riches we have in the second row there would be no need to have this debate. Henderson will be a Lion someday. I'm yet to be convinced any of the other centres we have in the squad outside D'Arcy/BOD will ever amount to being even good Irish internationals, including Marshall. Thank god for Jared Payne, eh?

I agree we need ball carrying and I agree that it has to come from the pack now that MArshall is out.

Three options to find this.
1) TH -Moore
2) Lock -Henderson
3) Flanker -Henderson/Murphy

I would change in two. And I would look at the guys we have in now.

1) Ross has not been outstanding tbh and Moore had a class game over the weekend and has done well in all of his Irish outings so far. I would definitely pick Moore for this game.

2) Toner and POC have been huge success stories, their rucking has been incredible, the lineout very secure, their carrying as well has improved. I think Toner has been more effective than Henry for example. I would keep Toner in and have Henderson at 6 or bench.

3) If POM is not fit, Henderson is then the obvious choice to go in. If POM is fit I'd be tempted to put Jordi Murphy in instead of Henry for this game. I think that would give us an extra ball carrying option and Henry would be the guy who would link us together in the end game to put guys in to holes or be the guy running into those holes using his intuitive support running.

Healy-Best-Moore
POC-Toner
POM-Heaslip-Murphy

or

Healy-Best-Moore
POC-Toner
Henderson-Heaslip-Henry

Caves very unlucky not to get a call up after his virtuoso motm performance on Friday. Bowe was on fire for 30 min but clearly needs to get 70-80 min under his belt before he can be considered.

Luke Marshall unlucky again with another head injury.

Zebo gets his chance after a half decent performance at 15 - McFadden was a bit of a headless chicken for Leinster in the centre I thought.

Ruddock and Henderson continue to impress and must be pushing hard. Donnacha Ryan still looks some way off his best.

Reddan is in fantastic form and though Madigan looked good at 10.

I'd go with the same 15 with Zebo, Reddan, Madigan and maybe O'Donnell on the bench.

15 Kearney
14 Trimble
13 BOD
12 D'arcy
11 Kearney
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 O'Mahoney
5 Toner
4 O'Connell
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Healy

Bench: Moore, Cronin, McGrath, Henderson, TOD, Reddan, Madigan, Zebo

A 15 -20 point win here and with England/Wales facing a 6 day turn around we would have one hand on the title  

But Cave did get a call-up?

Notch wrote:But Cave did get a call-up?

Well there you go then.... and well deserved it was too.

BOD and Darcy are starting pretty much definitely at this stage.

Anybody have any idea how POM is doing???

Nachos Jones wrote:So, let me try and understand you Fly. Schmidt cant fail in your eyes, if he does well then great but if he doesn't its because he has been given a poison chalice?

I really like the guy and do think that he is the correct man to lead Ireland and i do want him to succeed. I am just not buying into this 'great tactician' and the best coach ever business that some are floating on about here.

I will say things how i see them, even as a Munster fan and a massive fan of ROG's i was screaming that he should have been dropped after the last RWC and that Sexton should be allowed the full faith of the coach. In D'Arcy and BOD, i see Schmidt making the same mistake.

Hmmm...sorry for the delay...........!  Took the weekend away from 606.

Numero Uno:  I don't see how you can read what I've said and suggest it means I think Schmidt can't fail!?  Of course he can fail. You presume old Provincial normalities where there is none in the sense of assuming that 'cause Schmidt was Leinster coach that I'm somehow going to be defending him against bad judgements and terrible losses.  I ain't DOD and I ain't Sin and I'll challenge anyone to pinpoint me as a die-hard Provincialist International supporter.  I've criticised Leinster players and often stood on the battlements defending Munster ones (O'Gara was often the guy I was protecting from flack both as an Ireland player and as a Lions one)

But fact are facts, and facts are what I've pointed out.  Schmidt has had less time to set-up his systems and work with his prospective players, and try out players in the lead in to a 2015 WC than Gatland has had, than Lancaster has had, than Hanson has had, than Meyer has had, than Saint-André has had.  The only coaches given the same time or less is McKenzie and Cotter (who as I say, created his own come-late conditions).  That's a poison chalice against such coaches and such head starts - it is.  And it's especially pertinent in the light of the IRFU going against virtually all public opinion that the Kidney led system was failing well in advance of 2013. Yes, a poison chalice.  I wouldn't for a moment take that interpretation back.  Is it an excuse for Schmidt to fail miserably?  No.  Is his job more difficult to manage towards 2015 than most other coaches of considered top-ranking sides?  Most definitely yes.

Numero Two: 'Great tactician' - It's fine that you don't buy it, Nachos.  But that doesn't change again the fact that it is one of the main reasons (if not the main one) that he was hired in the first place.  The IRFU hired him, as fast as they could, because again, general opinion - even if not yours - was that he was most definitely a 'great tactican'.  
And he had the things to prove it... cups and titles.  It's a dishonour to his abilities as a coach to deny cups and titles as confirmation that he has tactical prowess.  Nope - he's not a genius.  If I've ever used the word, it's when I'm play-acting with my buddies DOD and Sin.  Will he prove a 'great tactician' at International?  Time will tell.
But he was only three seasons with Leinster.  In that time he took one Pro12 title and was runner up twice.  He took two HECs and an Amlin title in Europe.  Some will say he came to a good team.  Some will say that's a slur you might throw at many ambitious coaches. But the facts again are that he was personally head-hunted not just by Leinster management but by the players themselves - the Leinster players wanted this man.  Sexton himself was central to Schmidt joining Leinster.  The players and management had their reasons.  Some of them might have something to do with the Top14 title and two runner-up places that he took as Backs coach with Clermont.

Numero Three: No problem with you saying things how you see them, Nachos.  I do the same myself.  But you seem to somehow take my comments as being a direct almost snarly stab at you and your opinions.  As if somehow I'm trying to rubbish them.  Not so, just my replies to your opinions, or moreso even just to the topic at hand.  I'm very at ease with people and their opinions.  That's the fun of it.  Different opinions debated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26423529?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

The voice of BOD has anointed a disciple... I feel like there's a good chance we'll be seeing Jackson.

Notch wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26423529?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

The voice of BOD has anointed a disciple... I feel like there's a good chance we'll be seeing Jackson.

BOD has also being intriguingly saying quite a bit (without saying anything!) about Sexton - which I'm surprised isn't being made more of in the 'hungry for any bit of news' Irish media.

I really like Jackson and think that he is really pushing Sexton. Sexton has not been the same since he left Leinster and the longer he stays away in France the more it will affect his form.

This is a game in the 6Ns against Italy. It is going to be highly attritional and physical. If Ireland plan to win this game and improve their points differential in any meaningful way then they need to tire out the starting Italian XV and get into their substitutes. So it makes it interesting how the team will be selected.

Take LH for example, it is pretty much a given that Healy will start. But is that the correct choice against this side. Healy will be targetted by fresh Italian forwards flying into tackles. Should you not take the step of giving McGrath the start at LH, he can hold his own in the scrum, is decent around the park and attacks the breakdown well. Then sub him early into the second half (say the 45min marker) and unleash a full force Healy onto a tiring Italian side.

Likewise in the second row. Some are talking about Henderson for ball carrying ability, but I reckon the attritional nature of the start and the strength that Toner/POC/Best have been to the lineout organisation means you should keep this as is for the start of the game. Solid base to the game. Then Cronin and Henderson can come on and positively impact a game that opens up in the second half.

Once Murray keeps quick service to whoever is fit for outhalf (which he has been quite good at this season) and puts good length on box kicks for chasers to contest (varied from perfect timing to too deep a little too much for my liking) then he retains his place. Reddan should be the option over Boss for the bench once he is geared up for a high tempo recycle off the bench in the second half.

The Sexton/Jackson/Madigan choice is up in the air, I'll cheer on whoever is selected.

Backline I'd expect to be unchanged. There is a strong chance that McFadden's versatility keeps him as the bench option and that if Trimble or one of the backs takes a knock, Zebo might (just a might) get a starting place.

I'm looking forward to this game, it will be interesting how they approach it tactically.

As for BOD, preparing to play his last ever home game for Ireland- only in two of his previous thirteen Six Nations campaigns before this year has he failed to score a try. Surely he's due one in the next couple of games...

As Rodders said in jest a while ago - but it would be so sweet if it happened.... I'd hope he'd keep any tries in him for the game in Paris. That would be a fine way to bow out, scoring one or two against the team he scored the hattrick against all those seasons ago.

Hey that wasn't in jest fly! The hat trick is coming!

I'm sensing it, rodders. It's gonna be the perfect ending.................

Careful, careful, Fly!!!! Don't be letting Rodders cheat you into becoming a Glass Half Full guy! Tone it down dramatically!

Em...totally disagree there, Rodders. Parra is going to get at us again.

Italy squad;

Forwards: Matias Aguero (Zebre), Martin Castrogiovanni (Toulon), Lorenzo Cittadini (Treviso), Alberto De Marchi (Treviso), Michele Rizzo (Treviso), Leonardo Ghiraldini (Treviso), Davide Giazzon (Zebre), Marco Bortolami (Zebre), Quintin Geldenhuys (Zebre), Antonio Pavanello (Treviso), George Fabio Biagi (Zebre), Robert Barbieri (Treviso), Paul Derbyshire (Treviso), Joshua Furno (Biarritz), Sergio Parisse (Stade Francais), Manoa Vosawai (Treviso)

Backs: Edoardo Gori (Treviso), Tito Tebaldi (Ospreys), Tommaso Allan (Perpignan), Luciano Orquera (Zebre), Tommaso Benvenuti (Perpignan), Michele Campagnaro (Treviso), Gonzalo Garcia (Zebre), Alberto Sgarbi (Treviso), Mirco Bergamasco (Rovigo), Angelo Esposito (Treviso), Tommaso Iannone (Zebre), Luke McLean (Treviso), Leonardo Sarto (Zebre), Andrea Masi (Wasps)

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/schmidt-has-to-decide-between-sexton-and-jackson-1.1712212

O'Mahony is the biggest doubt- O'Driscoll only partially training butseems likely to play, Sexton likely to be fit but not clear whether he'll start or be rested/rotated. Jackson may yet start and he and Sexton have been switching... final call to be made on Thursday.

If O'Mahony is out who would people prefer to replace him? Henderson or Ruddock?

Maybe we'll get both Henderson and Ruddock. Plumtree was doing the press conference today and he spent some time discussing both players. McGrath is in the frame too. This is an interesting team selection- of course they could all miss out...

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/2014/0304/600128-plumtree-italys-pack-offers-huge-challenge/

Yup sounds like Ruddock and Henderson may start.... maybe some front row changes.

I'm guessing they are thinking about the back to back games and how much this rough house Italian pack could take out of our lads, which is a good plan if it comes off.

Two games in a row surely isnt that much of a drain on players is it?

Maybe, maybe not. I would expect if guys are rotated out of the team they will come off the bench. They'll be angry at losing their places and desperate to lay down a marker going into France. Remember we did this in Round 4 in 2009 and it worked brilliantly.

It sounds like O'Mahony is really struggling to be fit for this game, so no sense in risking him anyway.

Notch wrote:Maybe, maybe not. I would expect if guys are rotated out of the team they will come off the bench. They'll be angry at losing their places and desperate to lay down a marker going into France. Remember we did this in Round 4 in 2009 and it worked brilliantly.

It sounds like O'Mahony is really struggling to be fit for this game, so no sense in risking him anyway.

Thats true but we arent going for a slam this time so points difference is key. Our points difference in the slam year was not great and if we lost one game we probably would not have won the championship.

Also true. But I would back guys like McGrath and Henderson to not weaken up to the point where it affects if we win and the margin of that win. Hopefully. Actually think Henderson can enhance our attack, we don't have anyone in the back five of the pack who can do things like this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibS93sanGZc#t

But I remember in that game Henderson didn't do enough clearing of the ruck, which was where Saracens targeted us- however, it has to be said that Jamie Heaslip is considerably more hard working at 8 than Nick Williams in terms of, well, pretty much every area of the game and that should free Henderson up to carry a bit more.

McGrath and Henderson did the press conference yesterday, which may be a hint. Can't wait for tomorrows selection.

GunsGerms wrote:

Notch wrote:Maybe, maybe not. I would expect if guys are rotated out of the team they will come off the bench. They'll be angry at losing their places and desperate to lay down a marker going into France. Remember we did this in Round 4 in 2009 and it worked brilliantly.

It sounds like O'Mahony is really struggling to be fit for this game, so no sense in risking him anyway.

Thats true but we arent going for a slam this time so points difference is key. Our points difference in the slam year was not great and if we lost one game we probably would not have won the championship.

Yes...and that's why I say approach Italy as if it's England, Wales or New Zealand.  Give Italy that kind of all-out belligerent respect.  There are different moods that Ireland can call upon, or at least a mood that they try to get to for certain sides.  This is the time for Ireland to prove it can ratchet up the 'intensity' at any time, not just when a red flag side is the opponent.

We lost a Championship on points difference in 2001, 2006 and 2007.  Now perhaps those points differences weren't realistically closeable on some of those occasions, but the fact is that's the only reason we lost... less points on the board - as we raised our game for the big boys and dropped it for the minnows.

Time for Schmidt to prove his new philosophy will be high-octane regardless of the opponents.  If we win 16-20, or 7-17 then that's us using Italy as forwards training sessions again.... and that wouldn't be nearly good enough or in any way match my expectations of what a new coach was meant to have brought.
And if we lose........................................................ well, let's not go there!

GunsGerms wrote:Two games in a row surely isnt that much of a drain on players is it?

It is if you are as old as Mike Ross and O'Connell

Notch wrote:

profitius wrote:True but it doesn't mean picking an inexperienced player (at international level) would weaken the team. It might even strengthen the team. Thats my main bugbear with Ireland.

Aw, you have to be fair and look at these selection decisions individually. I think bringing in Henderson for Toner or Moore for Ross may very well strengthen the team- I think changing either of the two centres wouldn't despite the fact I don't massively rate D'Arcy or BOD anymore, both are definitely on their last legs. But BOD certainly offers more than Henshaw and Cave, Marshall vs. D'Arcy is a much closer call but I don't see how you can argue that Marshall is in better form there- D'Arcy is responding well to the challenge of Luke Marshall and Luke has had the exact same problem as he did last year, which is trying to hard to impress when back at Ulster and forcing the play.

I was looking forward to Marshall getting a game against Italy but it now looks unlikely after he took that knock to the head and with his history etc.

Now if Schmidt really is conservative we'll see Jennings coming in for Jordi Murphy and Donnacha Ryan coming in for Iain Henderson, Declan Fitzpatrick replacing Martin Moore, Tom Court ousting Jack McGrath, Darren Cave leapfrogging Robbie Henshaw etc.   Because it seems to me there are quite a few slots in the squad where he is going with youth.

According to Plumtree in papers today, Henderson sees himself in the backrow, not the 2nd row.

Its hard to take a guy called Plumtree seriously Sin...

As Notch said there are guys who can come in and won't weaken the team - Ruddock and Hendo being two of them. I think the whole front 5 bar O'Connell could be rotated and there are some good option in the backrow and wings.

Therefore it makes sense to mix things up a bit rather than have the same 15 players do 70-80min over the next 2 weekends.

This presents our best opportunity to win the title....which we will do by the way, so relax please guys....

"Its hard to take a guy called Plumtree seriously Sin..."

And we ruined a Kidney and our defence is based on a Kiss

Ireland are an joke, and Italy will be laughing at the end.

rodders wrote:Its hard to take a guy called Plumtree seriously Sin...

As Notch said there are guys who can come in and won't weaken the team - Ruddock and Hendo being two of them. I think the whole front 5 bar O'Connell could be rotated and there are some good option in the backrow and wings.

Therefore it makes sense to mix things up a bit rather than have the same 15 players do 70-80min over the next 2 weekends.

This presents our best opportunity to win the title....which we will do by the way, so relax please guys....

How about taking Henderson seriously then?

Having turned 22 the day before the Twickenham game, Henderson (right) has stated his preference for playing in the back-row over the second-row, and Plumtree has been impressed by the Ulsterman since he took the job.

Both Madigan and Earls expressed preferences of where'd they like to play - and I think they both got short shrift from their respective coaches at the time.

It's dangerous to be expressing preferences so early in an International career.  McFadden has kinda learned the lesson.  'I'll play anywhere I'm put' is often his battle cry for inclusion.

Courtney Lawes also prefers to play in the back row, but he isn't half as effective there. Ben Foden wanted to play 9 but the coach wanted him to play 15, where he is clearly a much better player. Sometimes where a player wants to play isn't where they are best. I'm sure many props would have preferred to play somewhere else.   

As for Henderson, I think he can play both positions to the same standard, it just depends on the other players around him. At the end of the day the only real difference between him having a 4/5 or a 6 on his back is at the scrum (where having someone like POM who is superb on the deck is very useful). In open play he can play the same game regardless, like I said it just depends on who he plays alongside.

Paul O'Connell said that lock is his least fovourite position to play of all the positions he has played. I think he was only joking though.

Courtney Lawes wears Iain Henderson pyjamas.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

profitius wrote:True but it doesn't mean picking an inexperienced player (at international level) would weaken the team. It might even strengthen the team. Thats my main bugbear with Ireland.

Aw, you have to be fair and look at these selection decisions individually. I think bringing in Henderson for Toner or Moore for Ross may very well strengthen the team- I think changing either of the two centres wouldn't despite the fact I don't massively rate D'Arcy or BOD anymore, both are definitely on their last legs. But BOD certainly offers more than Henshaw and Cave, Marshall vs. D'Arcy is a much closer call but I don't see how you can argue that Marshall is in better form there- D'Arcy is responding well to the challenge of Luke Marshall and Luke has had the exact same problem as he did last year, which is trying to hard to impress when back at Ulster and forcing the play.

I was looking forward to Marshall getting a game against Italy but it now looks unlikely after he took that knock to the head and with his history etc.

Now if Schmidt really is conservative we'll see Jennings coming in for Jordi Murphy and Donnacha Ryan coming in for Iain Henderson, Declan Fitzpatrick replacing Martin Moore, Tom Court ousting Jack McGrath, Darren Cave leapfrogging Robbie Henshaw etc.   Because it seems to me there are quite a few slots in the squad where he is going with youth.

According to Plumtree in papers today, Henderson sees himself in the backrow, not the 2nd row.

Tommy Bowe at one point was pushing for a move to fullback full-time early in his career. Keith Earls proclaimed he preferred outside centre and wanted to focus on playing there. When Luke Marshall was coming through the system he wanted to be a 10 but was forced out to 12 because of the excellence of his amigo Paddy Jackson. Etc. etc. Players often have a preference of where they want to play but coaches don't always agree!

I think Henderson could be a top class lock or back row at international level, I'm not surprised he prefers to play where the strongest part of his game comes to the fore. He's a better ball carrier than anything. But he's been forced into lock because Anscombe favours a 6 who can do really influence the breakdown and that part of his game is still fairly gauche. A lot of people feel his athleticism is wasted in the second row but against the Dragons he showed he can play lock and still influence the game with his carrying.

I have absolutely no reservations about him starting at 6 for Ulster or Ireland when he's alongside a 7 and an 8 who are excellent at the breakdown and Henry and Heaslip fit the bill in a way that someone like Nick Williams doesn't. I also think he can make a big difference if he comes in for Toner. I'll be excited about what he can bring to the game if he's in the team tomorrow regardless of whether he's wearing 4 or 6 on his back. He's the kind of mobile forward with explosive power we don't see all that often in this country.

Long term, the coaches at Ulster and for the national team will probably also push him towards the position where we have least cover. I couldn't tell you which position he'll win most of his caps in but I think he will win a lot of caps either way...

I've been impressed with how solid the Irish set pieces have been this season. Scrums and lineouts have been great. I haven't checked the percentages but neither one have felt like 50-50 balls whenever we have had them.

Also, our set-pieces have retained their focus and effectiveness even when substitutions have been made. And in the area of the lineout, it does feel like there is some nice variation as well in that we haven't so far been too predictable in our calls.

Just wondering, why would playing at 6 give you more opportunities to carry the ball than playing in the second row? Surely in open play it isn't going to make a difference, like I said it depends on the rest of the team to be good in support, and to do the donkey work.

Cian Healy is one of our best ball carriers and he gets plenty of opportunities at loose head.

Rory, I guess that sometimes the blindside can stand out in the back line when there is a shortened lineout whereas the lock normally has a pretty central role as one of the two main jumpers. If you are scrummaging at lock you are also closer to the coal face because the back row are the first to break from the set piece so the 6 can get into position as a support runner quicker. And then in general play, the roles are different with the locks normally expected to do more donkey work and the 6 probably runs more support lines, both close to the breakdown and in wider channels.

Not that a lock can't be a big ball carrier- it looked to me at the last Ulster game like we specifically were trying to get Henderson on the ball as much as possible and he made a lot of carries. Just trying to venture a few possible reasons.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Just wondering, why would playing at 6 give you more opportunities to carry the ball than playing in the second row?  Surely in open play it isn't going to make a difference, like I said it depends on the rest of the team to be good in support, and to do the donkey work.

Cian Healy is one of our best ball carriers and he gets plenty of opportunities at loose head.

Healy is a bit of a freak though, also as a loosehead you only have your neck and one shoulder that you are driving with in the scrum whereas TH and locks take the full pressure from the scrum. Hookers can take the full pressure too but then again they are mean to hook the ball which means they aren't fully committed to exerting a push during the full scrum.

Equally a flanker only has a token shoulder in the scrum and the no.8 is concentrating on either (a) controlling the ball or (b) sneaking a peak to see if the ball is out.

Scrum wise TH and locks expend the most energy from my experience.