Wales scrum dominance?

One of the fundamentals during Wales' 27-6 win over France was the success of our scrum. After having come under much scrutiny and questions relating to fitness, Jenkins and Jones came out firing and sent the much vaunted French scrum into white flag mode. This was quite clear to anyone with any rugby nous, so I find it strange that some people can be so bitter over a little Welsh success. For instance, if we look at Figure 1, we can clearly see Wales getting a very strong foothold in the scrum, allowing Faletau a clean pick-up off the back and quick ball for our backs. The English said, "Jenkins collapsed it."

Figure 1


In this next image, one of The Saint's favourites, we clearly see Wales shoving the French scrum backwards and allowing Wales to win a scrum against the head. That's something you don't see very often. That was great play from Wales. The English said, "Jenkins was lying on his belly."

Figure 2
https://i.servimg.com/u/f55/18/49/71/76/scrum210.jpg

Figure's 3 and 4 show the same scrum dominance from different angles.

Figure 3
https://i.servimg.com/u/f55/18/49/71/76/scrum211.jpg

Figure 4
https://i.servimg.com/u/f55/18/49/71/76/scrum212.jpg

Wales in trouble near their own line. It's up to super scrum to ensure ball retention is smooth. They exceed Saint's expectations by once again, sending the French scrum into retreat. The English said. "Jones collapsed it."

Figure 5
https://i.servimg.com/u/f55/18/49/71/76/scrum310.jpg

The following was Saint's next favourite moment. Wales get themselves out of trouble with some outstanding defence, and further stamp their authority on the game by earning a penalty from a total annihilation of France's scrum with their back-up props. Looks like Plan B failed.

Figure 6
https://i.servimg.com/u/f55/18/49/71/76/scrum410.jpg

And the same again.

Figure 7
https://i.servimg.com/u/f55/18/49/71/76/scrum411.jpg

Well I have to admit, we must have been really lucky to get away with this 80 minutes of scrum collapsing. Now, speaking in real terms to the real rugby people, the England scrum got a good pasting from France, and now they're down to their reserve props. Therefore, The Saint can only see scrum time going one way and this is very unfortunate for England. Scrum time dominance will be just one vital factor in trying to get a win at Twickenham, but a very important one none-the-less.

Why all this 'the English said' stuff?

How on Earth will Wales get anything near scrum parity without Walsh on the pitch ?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why all this 'the English said' stuff?

Because this forum and other rugby sites is full of English posters claiming that the Welsh props have got where they are by collapsing scrums, binding on the arms - i,e cheating

munkian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why all this 'the English said' stuff?

Because this forum and other rugby sites is full of English posters claiming that the Welsh props have got where they are by collapsing scrums, binding on the arms - i,e cheating

Just out of interest, did any English posters claim that of this particular game?

They do cheat. All props do. Are you trying to say they don't? They practice their 'innocent face' in front of the mirror as much as their scrummaging! I'd be very surprised if it was only the English who knew the ins and outs of scrummaging and the dark arts.

Clearly the Welsh front row are struggling with the new laws. They always come off the pitch with mud on their faces. They should try keeping it up for once. It's much better to watch.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

munkian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why all this 'the English said' stuff?

Because this forum and other rugby sites is full of English posters claiming that the Welsh props have got where they are by collapsing scrums, binding on the arms - i,e cheating

Just out of interest, did any English posters claim that of this particular game?

Unfortunately ASBO, yes. Therefore, I've had to highlight the Wales scrum dominance. What do you think about the Wales scrum dominance?

englandglory4ever wrote:Clearly the Welsh front row are struggling with the new laws. They always come off the pitch with mud on their faces. They should try keeping it up for once. It's much better to watch.

I think you'd better look at the images and then start pooping bricks in anticipation for the first scrum .

You was lucky that Alan Roland showed Bias to Wales and not France. Seeing that he talks fluent fench, probably giving Wales a lot of the scrum battle to make up for the sending off Warburton during the RWC.

When he did send Warburton off in that Rugby World cup he recived a lot of depth threats i understand. And seeing that it is last season as a referree he did not want any more trouble.

The amount of times Gethin Jenkins did a belly flop at the word bind. Just boggles belief why he did not get a yellow card.

The Saint wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

munkian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why all this 'the English said' stuff?

Because this forum and other rugby sites is full of English posters claiming that the Welsh props have got where they are by collapsing scrums, binding on the arms - i,e cheating

Just out of interest, did any English posters claim that of this particular game?

Unfortunately ASBO, yes. Therefore, I've had to highlight the Wales scrum dominance. What do you think about the Wales scrum dominance?

I thought it was impressive on Friday eve, the first time I've really seen it under the new scrum laws Any thoughts on what made the difference? Is it as simple as the Gatty-kick-up-the-harris?

Pooping bricks? Why? We all know what will happen. Wales will drop it and try to con the ref for a penalty. As sure as eggs ... .

majesticimperialman wrote:You was lucky that Alan Roland showed Bias to Wales and not France. Seeing that he talks fluent fench, probably giving Wales a lot of the scrum battle to make up for the sending off  Warburton during the RWC.

When he did send Warburton off in that Rugby World cup he recived a lot of depth threats i understand. And seeing that it is last season as a referree he did not want any more trouble.

The amount of times Gethin Jenkins did a belly flop at the word bind. Just boggles belief why he did not get a yellow card.

Dear god         

Well done madge, you've brightened up my day.  

majesticimperialman wrote:You was lucky that Alan Roland showed Bias to Wales and not France. Seeing that he talks fluent fench, probably giving Wales a lot of the scrum battle to make up for the sending off  Warburton during the RWC.

When he did send Warburton off in that Rugby World cup he recived a lot of depth threats i understand. And seeing that it is last season as a referree he did not want any more trouble.

The amount of times Gethin Jenkins did a belly flop at the word bind. Just boggles belief why he did not get a yellow card.

As in: "Alain, you are just too deep, you great big philosopher you"?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

The Saint wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

munkian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why all this 'the English said' stuff?

Because this forum and other rugby sites is full of English posters claiming that the Welsh props have got where they are by collapsing scrums, binding on the arms - i,e cheating

Just out of interest, did any English posters claim that of this particular game?

Unfortunately ASBO, yes. Therefore, I've had to highlight the Wales scrum dominance. What do you think about the Wales scrum dominance?

I thought it was impressive on Friday eve, the first time I've really seen it under the new scrum laws  Any thoughts on what made the difference?  Is it as simple as the Gatty-kick-up-the-harris?

I thought so too. I was wondering why, at the time, why we didn't get any credit. All other teams seem to get credit from the neutrals. I would guess that the Ireland game was a real kick up the backside. Besides, when has our front-row ever been a poor unit? It's always been good. France were rudderless on the night so that would have helped too.

majesticimperialman wrote:You was lucky that Alan Roland showed Bias to Wales and not France. Seeing that he talks fluent fench, probably giving Wales a lot of the scrum battle to make up for the sending off  Warburton during the RWC.

When he did send Warburton off in that Rugby World cup he recived a lot of depth threats i understand. And seeing that it is last season as a referree he did not want any more trouble.

The amount of times Gethin Jenkins did a belly flop at the word bind. Just boggles belief why he did not get a yellow card.

Did you actually watch the game ?   

YES. i did.

Got fed up and bored watching scrums collapse. The Welsh front row do a great impression of dirt sliding. That's like sledging on your belly but without the sledge.

It's funny that some of you talk up England and France to be the 'big guns' in the 6 Nations, and yes I'm looking at you here madge. Wales have swept aside both in recent seasons, 30-3 and 27-6. Not a single try was conceded! Would you put this down to Welsh efforts, or ref efforts?

In the minority I know but I would still start Paul James.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:You was lucky that Alan Roland showed Bias to Wales and not France. Seeing that he talks fluent fench, probably giving Wales a lot of the scrum battle to make up for the sending off  Warburton during the RWC.

When he did send Warburton off in that Rugby World cup he recived a lot of depth threats i understand. And seeing that it is last season as a referree he did not want any more trouble.

The amount of times Gethin Jenkins did a belly flop at the word bind. Just boggles belief why he did not get a yellow card.

As in: "Alain, you are just too deep, you great big philosopher you"?

No...as in "Rolland!!! You f**kin a***ole!!!!! I am going to bury you six foot f*ck**g deep, you flowery French talking fop *uck!!!"

munkian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why all this 'the English said' stuff?

Because this forum and other rugby sites is full of English posters claiming that the Welsh props have got where they are by collapsing scrums, binding on the arms - i,e cheating

It’s only cheating if you get caught!  

Let’s just hope SL points this out to the Ref in his pre-game meeting or use the non-classy method (which really isn’t his style) through the Media!   

Well, I have to admit I was one that used to think the Welsh team were full of lardy cheats, but I have now been fully put in my place.

And it's just as well England can field a girlie FR and a back line full of novice teenagers who've barely met each other, and still win rugby games.

bedfordwelsh wrote:In the minority I know but I would still start Paul James.

For me he isn't an 80 minute player. Jenkins put in another world class shift, we've been pretty blessed to have his services over the years.

Now if Gats could only see Samson Lee as our next TH, then both of our front-row units are looking pretty good.

The Saint wrote:It's funny that some of you talk up England and France to be the 'big guns' in the 6 Nations, and yes I'm looking at you here madge. Wales have swept aside both in recent seasons, 30-3 and 27-6. Not a single try was conceded! Would you put this down to Welsh efforts, or ref efforts?

Welsh cheatin' should at least be an option there.  The English would appreciate that.

majesticimperialman wrote:YES. i did.

So can you tell us who received yellow cards in the game then ?

munkian wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:YES. i did.

So can you tell us who received yellow cards in the game then ?

Why engage with someone who constantly sends clueless posts? Rev is going to have a field day with his first post...

Jenkins is a Toulon discard. Only good for warming the bench in France. Maybe they weren't aware of his penalty generating skills.

englandglory4ever wrote:Jenkins is a Toulon discard. Only good for warming the bench in France. Maybe they weren't aware of his penalty generating skills.

Jenkins has never been renowned as an out an out power scrummager, it was his all round game that took him above others as coaches wanted props who could do more than just scrummage.

Toulon wanted power power power and rightly went for Sheridan who is an out and out destructive scrummager but doesn't have the all round game that Jenkins had.

Looks like he made his point by besting the French scrum though . Toulon, what a magical place!

 

Paul James made a big impact when he came on to replace Jenkins.

Maybe Gethin should take a little blue pill, it might help him to keep it up!

Look at the end of the day no matter what nationality your are you can't purely says that Gethin and Adam have come so far in being such a dominant pairing at scrum time of the past 5 years because they are cheating.
Both are world class at what they do and proved that Friday anyone to disagree with that is just being bitter and has not idea on what a scrum is, they will point out the obvious by just saying 'Gethin kept collapsing the scrum'.It's rubbish and deep down they know that
If they are cheating they have become masters of it because they must have been doing it for the past few years; it's one of our strengths and some people don't like it. We should target the English scrum because it is weak at the moment, whether we will is another subject but we should be going into that game targeting their weak scrum.
Gethin and Adam needed that confidence and they built on it vs France.

Scrumpy, rumour has it that Bath prop James has the highest penalty count in the AP, only bested by David Wilson (start for England next sunday  ). Care to shed some light on this?

The Saint wrote:

munkian wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:YES. i did.

So can you tell us who received yellow cards in the game then ?

Why engage with someone who constantly sends clueless posts? Rev is going to have a field day with his first post...

Why not, Like all the anti English post you keep sending.

Munkian it was Gethin Jenkins and Nicolas Mass that got yellow carded. What i meant too say is it is a wonder he did not get yellow carded sooner than he did.

So just to confirm Saint you don't think the Welsh try to get away with breaking the rules at scrum time?

How are my posts that point out anti-welsh posts anti-English madge? I'm well confused by that one. England are my second favourite team after Wales, it's just some of their fans are very poor supporters and have it in for Wales.

majesticimperialman wrote:

The Saint wrote:

munkian wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:YES. i did.

So can you tell us who received yellow cards in the game then ?

Why engage with someone who constantly sends clueless posts? Rev is going to have a field day with his first post...

Why not, Like all the anti English post you keep sending.

Munkian it was Gethin Jenkins and Nicolas Mass that got yellow carded. What i meant too say is it is a wonder he did not get yellow carded sooner than he did.

But you didn't, nor did you mention Mass at any point either. And didn't France get a penalty immediately after Paul James came on anyway ?

Jhamer25 wrote:Look at the end of the day no matter what nationality your are you can't purely says that Gethin and Adam have come so far in being such a dominant pairing at scrum time of the past 5 years because they are cheating.

Not at all both in their day were world class front row players.
But there were times last season and almost all of this season that they have begun to struggle. this could be for a number of reasons, age, new scrum laws etc etc hence why they are using all their experience of the dark arts these days, if the Ref knows what to look for or is pointed in the right direct (come on Bomber!) then they will start to get penalised, and rightly so.

The Saint wrote:How are my posts that point out anti-welsh posts anti-English madge? I'm well confused by that one. England are my second favourite team after Wales, it's just some of their fans are very poor supporters and have it in for Wales.

Saint.

Every time you post on here it is all ways that Wales have a better this than what England do. You never say that Wales have a better what ever it is than Ireland, or France. It is all ways England who have the lesser what ever you are posting about at the time.

Do you understand that?

Scrumpy sidesteps the cheating Bath front row question like Tipuric against Brown

majesticimperialman wrote:

The Saint wrote:How are my posts that point out anti-welsh posts anti-English madge? I'm well confused by that one. England are my second favourite team after Wales, it's just some of their fans are very poor supporters and have it in for Wales.

Saint.

Every time you post on here it is all ways that Wales have a better this than what England do. You never say that Wales have a better what ever it is than Ireland, or France. It is all ways England who have the lesser what ever you are posting about at the time.

Do you understand that?

I don't understand at all seeing as you've made that up. Don't you think that's enough self-embarrassment for one day? Time to clock off madge.

Clearly the Welsh front row is getting on a bit and finding the new laws difficult. Why else would they keep dropping scrums. It's a old man's problem.

Any prop who doesn't use a bit of skull duggery or the dark arts as some call it isn't very switch on (well they are props ).

Very few refs know what goes on in the scrums and if you can get away with it then you do, call it cheating or bad portmanship etc etc but anybody who could would.

As a neutral I would not really want to highlight this game as anything - it was a dire watch

I really thought I had overslept and was watching Scotland vs Italy - as that is how we usually look

A good win for Wales to get - but a terrible match over all

Well said Bedford.

Scrumpy wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:Look at the end of the day no matter what nationality your are you can't purely says that Gethin and Adam have come so far in being such a dominant pairing at scrum time of the past 5 years because they are cheating.

Not at all both in their day were world class front row players.
But there were times last season and almost all of this season that they have begun to struggle. this could be for a number of reasons, age, new scrum laws etc etc hence why they are using all their experience of the dark arts these days, if the Ref knows what to look for or is pointed in the right direct (come on Bomber!) then they will start to get penalised, and rightly so.

So what your saying is Phillips is your favourite player for trying to constantly point refs in the 'right direction'?

Jenkins was never a destructive scrummager, he has always held is own but struggled at times, Hibbard has the goods (When he doesn't have to hook) and Jones has been top class for the last few seasons. I think the new laws are highlighting Jones strengths, the hit, and Hibbards foot off the ground is compounding Jones problems, Jenkins was always succeptable to the odd penalty, but now so is Jones.

But lets be realistic, that front row hasn't been beaten hands down this season, handed out a few penalties, and given a few decisions away, but is capable of getting the odd shove right and putting on the pressure.

We definately shouldn't fear it, unlike last year it isn't the same entity, but we should respect it, thats how we'll get the edge

One thing that was obvious was that both tight heads in the game were binding on the arm, so its not surprising that Gethin Jenkins ended up flat on his belly if the French prop was binding, and pulling down on the arm.

englandglory4ever wrote:Clearly the Welsh front row are struggling with the new laws. They always come off the pitch with mud on their faces. They should try keeping it up for once. It's much better to watch.

They will, at HQ.

The Saint wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

The Saint wrote:How are my posts that point out anti-welsh posts anti-English madge? I'm well confused by that one. England are my second favourite team after Wales, it's just some of their fans are very poor supporters and have it in for Wales.

Saint.

Every time you post on here it is all ways that Wales have a better this than what England do. You never say that Wales have a better what ever it is than Ireland, or France. It is all ways England who have the lesser what ever you are posting about at the time.

Do you understand that?

I don't understand at all seeing as you've made that up. Don't you think that's enough self-embarrassment for one day? Time to clock off madge.

Saint.

If you think i have made any thing up regards your anti English threads, have a look back at some of them. you may be surprised.

Madge there are no anti-English threads. I suggest you stop spouting rubbish and actually watch a game of rugby for a change.