Ulster 2013/2014

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Any reason why he didnt make an appearance for the Ravens?

I would be very annoyed if it were Hogg for Payne. Not only do I not think Hogg is as good but we would be having to blow an NIQ spot. As Geoff says though I just cant see it

Would it not be Humphreys or Logan talking to agents or players rather than Anscombe

marty2086 wrote:Would it not be Humphreys or Logan talking to agents or players rather than Anscombe

I imagine it would be Anscombe and Humphreys truth be told. A potential player isn't going to worry too much about the nuts and bolts of the CEOs job. More likely concerns are on the rugby side of things

Standulstermen wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Would it not be Humphreys or Logan talking to agents or players rather than Anscombe

I imagine it would be Anscombe and Humphreys truth be told. A potential player isn't going to worry too much about the nuts and bolts of the CEOs job. More likely concerns are on the rugby side of things

Thats why I said agents but any player thats talked about signing for Ulster has always talked of Humphries being the pitch man, never any mention of the coach

But coach has a say - Williams would not be here without Anscombe talking him up.
Think Anscombe was responsible for Doyle as well - but could be wrong on that

Pretty obvious what was happening - Anscombe was looking for an agent...

Teflon Humps looking for someone to blame for no big signings   

The guy on the other forum has reinforced his standing on the matter. He doesn't seem to be a spoofer. Actually seems genuine. But he still could be mistaken.

What if Payne wants to play 13 as well as the IRFU, could the weight of both put pressure on Ulster to play him there? Perhaps cave is going to Leinster.

Either way, its still far from concrete, but the guy seems very sure he was 10 feet from Stuart Hogg and Anscombe and Humph. WUMs don't normally go this far...

I don't think he is a spoofer

Saw this today:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby-coach-mark-anscombes-future-hinges-on-rabodirect-pro12-success-30189197.html

Is Mark really for the chop if he doesn't bring home the league title this year?

He has another year GC. Doubt he will get more though

I think if Anscombe will see out his contract with Ulster and stay next season before moving on. For us to not have kicked on and won any silverware in the two years he's been here is obviously very disappointing.

We should be top of the league right now but for games where to be honest we have gifted the opposition the points so if we don't get a home semi-final then I do think the search for his replacement will begin in earnest but they won't be coming in until the summer of 2015.

If we don't make the play offs its not inconceivable he could go earlier imo

No point in getting rid of him if we haven't got someone lined up. If he did go it would have to be someone in-house. The thing is any new coach coming in has a coaching team imposed on them. Now I'm not knocking the likes of Bell and Doak because I think they are developing reasonably well (particularly the former) but that's not an ideal situation to try and be looking for someone new

I cant see that Anscombe has done a bad job...No playoffs would however be a failure...but still cant see them dispensing with his services with a contract signed a month ago.
HC semi was there bar for circumstance and the title itself in my view is 'likely'....IF they play like against connacht & Saracens (with 14) for the remainder. Although..I just cant see us having that consistency and that could be a management issue. The silly losses could bit us in the ***. Home v Glasgow, away v dragons & Cardiff...should have been 12/13 points not 2/3. A loss in glasgow could make us very nervous. I still think we will need to win at munster to get the home semi. At best 2 wins & 3 bonus points from the last 3. I cant see any other way with the fixtures of the other teams.

...Focus should be on player recruitment right now....we love the speculation....which is why we post on here
Truth be told, I'm a bit with all the Ins & Outs - Be nice to see a thread opener that can be edited so we can get a good overview of whats happening. Heard many ravens are leaving but that maybe just to get pitch time.

I know Jeff has said Payne is going nowhere until he's blue in the face....but the talk of it makes me nervous. I cant see anyone including Hump being happy to let him go. (He see's out his 3yr project status at Ulster, having played 2 yrs, and moves to Leinster as an IQ while we go after an NIQ Scottish Intl in Hogg.... Its cover for the international period thats required.....so all that talk is very strange to me!...UNLESS its Hogg in and Payne staying, but it still doesnt solve the oct & 6 nations cover problem..
Id still be very surprised at anything other than south Hemi utility giving Payne chance to play 13 and providing backup for Cave..Seems to me we are actually short of out and out proven 13's.

Still short of that Lock and I dont see too much depth at hooker

And remember...we are looking for a new captain next year...

Time will tell

Geoff I would never usually doubt you, as you seem to be a genuine and well informed individual (on ulster rugby at least). But in the link below it clearly states that big Deccie Fitz is returning this week after finally completing his return to play protocols following a conclusion. I really do not think that a provincial coach would be allowed by the IRFU to "shun" a very competent Ireland capped tighthead, it just wouldn't happen. I know some are looking for scape goats and hunting witches following our poor run into the quarter final then the unfortunate even which was the quarter final itself, but I really like Anscombe, I like the tactics he has introduces and i especially love how he has reinjuvinated players like diak and brought players like Henry and hendo up another level.

I really hope he stays and helps us develop further over the next couple of seasons.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/1432/Anscombe-changes-three-for-Glasgow-clash.aspx

I understand that is the story being put out and it is true he has missed a number of games because of the protocols but I have been told by someone who knows that he has been available for 4 games prior to this and the reason he has been not included is Anscombe is not a fan.

As they say don't shot the message carrying person - but I do trust the source.
When you think about they are not going to say "he is picked because we now really need him prior to that he was not selected because the coach doesn't rate him"

Well the Hogg story does at least seemed to have flushed out the rumours a bit.
Everything I have heard this week convinces me Van Der Merwe is signing provided the club are satisfied their is no serious damage, Ludik is good to go as are O'Hagan and iHumph.
Doyle will be leaving and the Hogg story has no substance

Those are the lines I am being fed

Without wanting to open a can of seriously tedious worms, could they have been talking to Hogg about his red card hearing? If they were considering an appeal, maybe they wanted to know know how the laws had been explicitly interpreted in Hogg's case?

Don in one short sentence you have provided a rational explanation for this overhyped nonsense - thank you   

Hogg has family here so a quick chat was arranged

Hogg is genuinely related to George Best and certainly does have family in Belfast.

He also has a tight hamstring so is rested for this game.

As you say though Geoff it does seem (from report alone) that Ludik and Van Der Merwe are done deals. Not exactly big names which is a little disappointing but hopefully it will do wonders for our depth

They could be talking to Hogg about any number of things, including seeing if he was interested not now but in a years time or about the weather or about red cards.

Having lunch with a guy doesn't mean he'll be turning out for Ulster next year. Jeez, we've had guys like Tim Nanai-Williams and Gareth Anscombe actually come over and participate in training sessions with Ulster Rugby because they are visiting the family they have associated with the team and want to keep sharp in their off-season and no-one assumes that means they'll be signing.

Tim Nanai-Williams was in Belfast and Humph did managed to sign him up! Not good enough!

I'm not far off being as gutted as I was at the RDS last year, or Twicks the year before.

Feel that silverware is always just out of reach for us, no matter what.

This injury crisis plus injuries tonught plus Paynes ban is just the worst luck ever, not to mention the run in we have compared to Opreys and Glasgow.

Just feels like its time to accept its not our year.

If we can somehow manage to get in the playoffs - which of our players are expected to be back by the semi finals on 16/17May?

It's our fault for not showing up in so many games and putting in poor performances i.e. away to Dragons, away to Cardiff, away to Scarlets, at home to Glasgow

There's four games we should havve picked up wins in but managed to play like spackers. If we had of won two of those, entirely achievable, only a win against Leinster would have been needed to guarantee home advantage in the last three games. Now we are scrapping for 3rd/4th and hoping other teams drop points and it's entirely down to dropping points when we didn't need to with disgracefully poor performances.

Disgusted by our league form this year. And disgusted with that performance.

We now have one full calendar year to plan where we go in terms of our coaching team long term, so Humphreys needs to sit down and start from scratch. And he deserves some of the blame too, our squads are consistently too small to be peaking physically at the run-in. We are constantly limping over the line with injuries, every season.

It's relative though Notch. We went aft the league last year and got nothing. We were much more 'euro focused' this year and we got shafted. The big issue is depth and we need to see how we are addressing that going forward. We aren't or haven't produced the fringe guys but unfortunately now we are relying on them because we are getting shafted by injuries.

We went through the same thing last year but earlier in the season which meant we still had the league. This year we are getting hit when we need everyone fit

We didn't go after the league any more or less last season than we did this season. We went for every game we played both years and this year we had several games in the league where we simply didn't perform.

Well I would agree to differ there. I think there was a bigger emphasis on the league last year. That said we got off to an awful start. That's the killer. We were shocking against the dragons and dominated Glasgow at Ravenhill and couldn't bloody score. That's when we relied on the fringe guys again and we didn't get it done.

I don't know what the right answer is truth be told but I would be wary about axing any of the coaches. I haven't a clue what's out there in those terms but with Muller going do we have room for a coach? I'm not sure

Hi folks - I've been following the thread with interest for some time and finally felt the need to vent after watching this evening's game. While there is no shame in losing to Glasgow away, the performance was simply unacceptable in nearly all facets of the game. A lack of execution combined with a lack of intensity will only ever lead to one result. Although some decisions went against us (most obviously, the TMO decision for the third try), Ulster deserved what they got from the game - precisely nothing.

Sure, we are missing quite a few players but I had thought that Humph & co. had been building a squad that would be able to compete with the best in Europe. Obviously, that's not the case (especially if Geoff's information is correct and I think it probably is...) if we are signing the likes of Franco van der Merve and Wiehahn Herbst as key overseas signings to replace Muller and Afoa. I can not see where the improvement that is required for next season will come from.

We are still as reliant as ever on Pienaar. Jackson's development still has a long way to go (he had very little effect or impact on today's game, for example). Too often, too many of our key players disappear when the game is on the line. While Anscombe has made a lot of positive changes, when he came to Ravenhill he was quite open in claiming that success is measured in trophies - so, according to his own logic, he has not been successful. It probably is time to consider alternatives. Perhaps that's why Logan & Humph have been unwilling to sign better players for next season - maybe they'd prefer not to commit a lot of financial resources to "Anscombe's players" if Cowboy himself is not going to be here for long? Either way, van der Merve is wholly uninspiring (hardly even in the top 6 locks in SA - heck, he's not even the best in his own family!!) and Herbst is a relative unknown. Certainly, neither compare favourably to Muller and Afoa, in terms of ability or pedigree.

It seems like Ulster Rugby is at a crossroads - it feels to me that the decisions taken now will set the road map for the next 5+ yrs. Either we will kick on from two character building losses in Europe, or sink back into proverbial 'also rans' of European and Irish rugby. Here's hoping for the best!

We're doomed, etc....you win some, you lose some, perspective gents....

We're doomed, etc....you win some, you lose some, perspective gents....was not a good performance, but lets face it, we aren't exactly getting the bounce of the ball lately. To suddenly question the coaching team that led us to the top of the league last year, and top seeds in the Heiny this year is a bit knee jerk in my opinion.

Facing facts, it now looks like we may well not make the top 4 this season. Truth is we need to increase the depth in our squad. But lets save the knashing of teeth and calling for heads to roll to the teams at the bottom of the league, not those playing at the sharp edge of the league where the bounce of the ball, untimely injury and terrible refs decision can make all the difference, and lets face it, we've had it all!!

This probably won't help Belfast hangovers this morning but on the posts above, I don't think that it's physically possible for a club to have worse luck than Ulster has had over the past 2 months. And that's not a trite or insignificant thing - bad luck can turn entire games, as the Payne incident showed.

I think there's something in the view that a slightly larger squad would have helped you. It's only something that Glasgow's managed to put together in the past 2 seasons and even then I think we've been lucky with how a lot of the younger players (Gray, Russell, Murchie) or foreign imports who were unknown quantities (Nakarawa, Yanyanutawa) have managed to step up.

Even if Ulster doesn't land a home QF (I think you'll take at least 5 points from the last 2 games), then I still think you could win it.

Got to agree (to a large extent) with Logie and GC there. To be honest GC I don't think we will win either game unless we get some guys back. We are decimated at the minute. I got what I expected from that game to a large extent. We kept it relatively tight for 50 minute and I do think two very poor decisions swung the game massively (not that Glasgow didn't deserve it) at that stage.

We have been flogging these guys quite simply because we have to.

As for new coaching, well I would be pleased to see someone come in if Muller was as involved in the coaching as we were led to believe but it would be to augment the current staff, albeit I don't mind the prospect of replacing Anscombe after next season. He did say it would be a three year project but if we look at where we are we missed out on the Rabo last year because Robbie Diack didn't flop over the line and we missed out on a Heineken semi this year due to a ref acting the maggot (a decision which looks all the more stupid in light of leinsters game yesterday)

I don't have much of an issue with the signings because I don't know a lot about them but I think we are over egging the pudding in what Muller and Afoa have brought (in playing terms) this season. Do we need to trust our younger guys more? Yes quite possibly but bearing in mind we are now missing

Lutton
Fitz
Afoa
McAllister
Black
Court
Best
Tuohy
Ferris
Diack
Wilson
Pienaar
Wallace
Farrell
Olding
Payne (returning now)

I'm not sure what we were expecting against a resurgent Glasgow

Now that you've mentioned it, Stand, I feel a bit more comforable talking about it, but I was quite surprised by how confident a lot of Ulster fans were going into this game. If both sides were at full strength, then absolutely.  

However, once I heard that Afoa, Best, Pienaar, Ferris and Payne were out, I knew (having watched almost every Glasgow game this season) that it would take very bad form, bad refereeing and/or bad luck for Glasgow to lose following the Munster performance, which was our best this season.

I do get it though. Ulster have been so strong for so long that the fans' default has simply become that they expect to win. Nothing wrong with that, particularly in a year when Ulster had the only unbeaten record in the Heiney his year. But it's very useful to notice when other teams in the league are on a hot streak.

Did Clancy refuse to let anyone come on for Court when he got injured last night?

marty2086 wrote:Did Clancy refuse to let anyone come on for Court when he got injured last night?

It was Lacey and no. He let Annett come on but then once the scrums went uncontested we were down to 14.

GC
I don't know if any of us were confident. It would have needed the XV to be playing at their best for 80 minutes to come away with the points. I said as much before the game

hey lads, sorry for just barging on in here on the thread but does anyone have any update on Stuart Olding?

He is certainly fit enough to carry water, that I do know!

MrsP wrote:He is certainly fit enough to carry water, that I do know!

Was he water boy the other day??? Is he back in training??

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

MrsP wrote:He is certainly fit enough to carry water, that I do know!

Was he water boy the other day??? Is he back in training??

He's back running as of last week

He was water boy for the Glasgow fiasco. I think I have seen him doing it at at least one other game too??? I might have imagined that last bit????

so.......Ireland summer tour...?

No, he'll not make the summer tour.

George Carlin wrote:Now that you've mentioned it, Stand, I feel a bit more comforable talking about it, but I was quite surprised by how confident a lot of Ulster fans were going into this game. If both sides were at full strength, then absolutely.  

Tbh, that was a game we had to win and we didn't. Leinster of a few years ago would have won that game because they had to even if they were missing key players and thats the difference between a championship winning side and side that isn't good enough. I agree with you, we were up against it with injuries and against a good team but still- the result demonstrates we are still far away from being one of the very best sides out there and being at a level where we will win trophies every season.

So we now need to go and reassess the coaching staff and the squad and review how we're going to reach that next level. Bitterly disappointed and angry at that performance last night. Just not good enough.

Glasgow played very well, but they weren't at a level where you thought- 'well, no-one could have handled that'. A better side would have beaten them on the night. Ulster at their best would have beaten them, so I'm pretty angry with the way we played. I've seen Glasgow play better than that in the Pro12 playoffs and lose. The level you'd need to win away in the playoffs was the minimum level required of Ulster last night and they failed to deliver.

Notch wrote:No, he'll not make the summer tour.

Thanks for the info Notch, gutted. It could be tailor made for him.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Notch wrote:No, he'll not make the summer tour.

Thanks for the info Notch, gutted. It could be tailor made for him.

As far as I know he;s running but he's not yet doing figure of eights and turning and stuff, so still a mile away from taking contact. I don't think it would be fair to send him on the summer tour even if he was fit in time. After not playing for months he's not going to be able to go straight into a test match and do himself justice.

The TMO decisions last night could be crucial in deciding who gets to the playoffs. On another night we might have had Nick Williams try awarded and seen the Glasgow try ruled out- that would have given us a LBP and meant we need only 5 more points to qualify for the playoffs.

As it stands we need 6 more points from our last two games, as Ospreys have an easy run-in where they could easily pick up all 15 points against Dragons, Connacht and Zebre. We need to beat Leinster with a BP and pick up a LBP at Thomond Park, or just beat Leinster and Munster if the Ospreys don't slip up. We can only hope that they drop a point against the Dragons.

Notch Seymours try was dodgy in my opinion too, first it came from a good turnover from Luke Marshall that Lacey penalised for then in the maul Wilson was seemingly trying to decapitate Nick Williams

Yeah, I was surprised they didn't check the lineout but that was entirely self-inflicted with shoite defence by the back line off the set piece and then really basic error in failing to clear our lines- absolutely furious about that try, people say it was down to injuries etc. that we lost but we would have turned around ahead and in control if it wasn't for frakking basic errors that aren't acceptable under any circumstances.

The truth is regardless of the players we had missing going to Glasgow and making those mistakes is just absolutely and totally unacceptable. Both the result and the manner of defeat were so far off where we need to be... really, really disappointing.

Notch wrote:The TMO decisions last night could be crucial in deciding who gets to the playoffs. On another night we might have had Nick Williams try awarded and seen the Glasgow try ruled out- that would have given us a LBP and meant we need only 5 more points to qualify for the playoffs.

As it stands we need 6 more points from our last two games, as Ospreys have an easy run-in where they could easily pick up all 15 points against Dragons, Connacht and Zebre. We need to beat Leinster with a BP and pick up a LBP at Thomond Park, or just beat Leinster and Munster if the Ospreys don't slip up. We can only hope that they drop a point against the Dragons.

In fairness, Connacht and Zebre are finishing the season well and could make life difficult for the Ospreys.

Heres hoping anyway...



Edit: Just to clarify, when i say finishing well - more like they are putting up a fight! I reckon Connacht beating Ospreys would not be overly shocking.