Joe Schmidt responds to Denis Leamy's parochial rant!!

by GunsGerms Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:16 am

First topic message reminder :

Leamy's article prior to the Ireland game in which he claimed there was a Leinster bias which could harm our WC chances:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/denis-leamy-questions-schmidt-selection-30091421.html

Schmidts response:
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-denies-having-a-leinster-bias-1.1729932

“For me, I select Irish players. If people want to differentiate, if people want to divide that provincially, that’s their prerogative,” he said. “But, as a group, we’re just trying to select the Irish national team. If people are going to be distracted by provincial loyalties, then that is something that is certainly not happening within the group.

“I think there has been a super unity within the group. It is probably always disappointing to get criticised. I can totally understand the perception. But, what I can totally guarantee is that we have all the stats, we watch all the games and we try to do as much homework as we possibly can.”

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:08 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Oh dear another conspiracy theory.

Did you know that Joe Schmidt is actually a cyborg that was made in Blockrock college as part of the young scientist competition a few years ago. He is programmed only to understand Leinster accents.

"back with his people" - this is great stuff.

Less than 72 hours after leading Ireland to the RBS Six Nations title, Paul O’Connell was unofficially back in the Munster camp lending his considerable weight to planning procedures for the upcoming assault on Rabodirect Pro12 and Heineken Cup titles.

Munster head coach Rob Penney was happy O’Connell turned up to watch the training session at the University of Limerick yesterday: “Paul has been floating around,” said the coach when asked about the availability of the three Munster heroes from Paris last weekend, O’Connell, Conor Murray and Peter O’Mahony.

Surprised to see him? “You wouldn’t be, would you, knowing the man? He can’t wait to be back in amongst it. He is captain of the group which has just won the Six Nations and he is back here on the first available training day with his club, adding value as much as he can.”

Penney could even be tempted to give O’Connell some game time in Saturday’s Rabo clash with Benetton Treviso at Thomond Park although both his colleagues have been ruled out.

by **rodders** Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:09 pm

Sin é wrote: Judging on the body language, I'd say that at best Schmidt & POC have just about an ok working relationship.

Can you blame the big man? I mean he knows he only got the captains gig because Schmidt couldn't convince Leo Cullen to come out of International retirement.

by GunsGerms Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:10 pm

Thats probably the only reason Dave Kearney got picked. Im guessing too that POC was made captain because Schmidt felt bad for poor Paulie's foot after he kicked Kearney in the head.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:11 pm

Sin é wrote:

https://www.google.ie/search?q=joe+schmidt+paul+o%27connell&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=RcwpU6WoBYPNhAenqYDABw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1249&bih=897

Sin.................... do you genuinely scan all these pics for corroborating and damning evidence of an icy relationship between POC and Schmidt?

Please tell me you don't. It wouldn't be a healthy pastime.

by theslosty Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:21 pm

Sin é wrote:
Notch wrote:So you would have had two players on the bench who are locks/blindsides instead of an open side, and that a lock/blindside should have been 24th man instead of a blindside/number eight? Thats your best argument?

No-one needs to find a reason why Jordi Murphy came in for O'Donnell if they watched the press conferences and kept an eye on Munsters and Irelands injury updates because the question was asked and the reason was provided by Schmidt. Tommy O'Donnell returned to Munster to get some game time on the weekend of the England game, having not played very much rugby due to Six Nations. In that game he subsequently picked up an injury which curtailed his training in the run-up to the Italy game and therefore didn't end up coming back into the 23 as expected.

If thats your biggest quibble- that Schmidt should have included two players who are mainly locks and can cover 6 instead of one and a more versatile specialist back row and a 50/50 call over the second choice openside didn't go one players way after he picked up a slight injury... well there's not much of substance there is there?

Jordi Murphy has played No. 7 twice in his career todate. Once against Connacht and more recently against Castres. He was taken off I think when he was responsible for letting Castres score a try. Leinster went better when Jennings came on. He is a fringe player with Leinster, mainly at 8.

Not like you to get your facts wrong Sin. Murphy played the full 80 against Castres and indeed scored the game-clinching try!
The real facts are O'Donnell is probably a more accomplished player than Murphy but the latter was very much in form whereas O'Donnell hasn't played much rugby this year.
I'm not taking any side in this "debate" but I find it amazing all of your thoughts on a 6N winning coach are critical, I haven't seen you even acknowledge the contribution Schmidt has made once ever since he was appointed, DOD hasn't backed down but at least he has the grace to give Schmidt some credit.

Anyway, a fair few Munster players were injured this year or short on gametime (Ryan, O'Donnell, Earls, Zebo) and I'd expect the number of Leinster players in the squad to gradually decrease. The only contentious call was the non-selection of Zebo in my view.

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:22 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:

https://www.google.ie/search?q=joe+schmidt+paul+o%27connell&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=RcwpU6WoBYPNhAenqYDABw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1249&bih=897

Sin.................... do you genuinely scan all these pics for corroborating and damning evidence of an icy relationship between POC and Schmidt?

Please tell me you don't. It wouldn't be a healthy pastime.

I actually was surprised after the match on Sat how cool POC & Schmidt were (unlike say how BOD/Schmidt were) which is what got me thinking.

I just typed their names into google and clicked images and I got all those photos ( I haven't looked at them all) and I didn't spend more than 1 minute on the entire operation.

I'm used to watching POC celebrating wins, so I know how he behaves and he was very subdued.

by GunsGerms Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:25 pm

I think BOD was always going to be a little more excitable after that game for obvious reasons.

Maybe POC only likes playing for "his people"?

by SecretFly Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:32 pm

So he's lying when he talks about the massive difference Schmidt has made in getting players comfortable with the clarity they're being given in the roles?

If he wants to avoid saying those things because he doesn't believe them then he's professional enough to find words which would keep him from giving credit to Schmidt at all....for anything. If I didn't like someone I'd be very creative in keeping praise of them off the agenda of replies to questions.

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:34 pm

theslosty wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Notch wrote:So you would have had two players on the bench who are locks/blindsides instead of an open side, and that a lock/blindside should have been 24th man instead of a blindside/number eight? Thats your best argument?

No-one needs to find a reason why Jordi Murphy came in for O'Donnell if they watched the press conferences and kept an eye on Munsters and Irelands injury updates because the question was asked and the reason was provided by Schmidt. Tommy O'Donnell returned to Munster to get some game time on the weekend of the England game, having not played very much rugby due to Six Nations. In that game he subsequently picked up an injury which curtailed his training in the run-up to the Italy game and therefore didn't end up coming back into the 23 as expected.

If thats your biggest quibble- that Schmidt should have included two players who are mainly locks and can cover 6 instead of one and a more versatile specialist back row and a 50/50 call over the second choice openside didn't go one players way after he picked up a slight injury... well there's not much of substance there is there?

Jordi Murphy has played No. 7 twice in his career todate. Once against Connacht and more recently against Castres. He was taken off I think when he was responsible for letting Castres score a try. Leinster went better when Jennings came on. He is a fringe player with Leinster, mainly at 8.
Not like you to get your facts wrong Sin. Murphy played the full 80 against Castres and indeed scored the game-clinching try!
The real facts are O'Donnell is probably a more accomplished player than Murphy but the latter was very much in form whereas O'Donnell hasn't played much rugby this year.
I'm not taking any side in this "debate" but I find it amazing all of your thoughts on a 6N winning coach are critical, I haven't seen you even acknowledge the contribution Schmidt has made once ever since he was appointed, DOD hasn't backed down but at least he has the grace to give Schmidt some credit.

Anyway, a fair few Munster players were injured this year or short on gametime (Ryan, O'Donnell, Earls, Zebo) and I'd expect the number of Leinster players in the squad to gradually decrease. The only contentious call was the non-selection of Zebo in my view.

I recall Castre scoring a try that Jordi Murphy was at fault for. I also remember a huge improvement when Shane Jennings came on who normally plays 7. The claim has been that Jordi Murphy can play 7 at international level is just now true (yet) and apprently why he was selected on the bench.

Schmidt did ok, but I think he was tactically poor for the England game which cost us a Grand Slam. But, the way some people are going on about him, you'd think Ireland won the world cup.

by GunsGerms Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:40 pm

You sound quite bitter Sin?

I think tactically Schmidt was more or less spot on for the England game. He gave the team the moves and game plan to win the game but the execution was off particularly Sexton. With a bit more cohesion and time together hopefully this will improve.

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:41 pm

SecretFly wrote:So he's lying when he talks about the massive difference Schmidt has made in getting players comfortable with the clarity they're being given in the roles?

If he wants to avoid saying those things because he doesn't believe them then he's professional enough to find words which would keep him from giving credit to Schmidt at all....for anything. If I didn't like someone I'd be very creative in keeping praise of them off the agenda of replies to questions.

There was never any doubt that the Leinster players buy into his strategy (which is who he has surrounded himself with). Schmidtway or the highway it seems!

Have you any quotes about what POC brings to the table by Schmidt. (There are lots of quotes about BOD and others from him).

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:44 pm

GunsGerms wrote:You sound quite bitter Sin?

I think tactically Schmidt was more or less spot on for the England game. He gave the team the moves and game plan to win the game but the execution was off particularly Sexton. With a bit more cohesion and time together hopefully this will improve.

Exactly, Jackson was left on the bench even though Sexton had taken quite a knock. Jackson got 1 minute.
Boss got 1 minute in 2 games.

If Kidney did that, you'd have a hanging party out for him. Declan Kidney had to apologise to Leo Cullen in the press about Cullen getting 2 or 3 minutes once.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:48 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:So he's lying when he talks about the massive difference Schmidt has made in getting players comfortable with the clarity they're being given in the roles?

If he wants to avoid saying those things because he doesn't believe them then he's professional enough to find words which would keep him from giving credit to Schmidt at all....for anything. If I didn't like someone I'd be very creative in keeping praise of them off the agenda of replies to questions.

There was never any doubt that the Leinster players buy into his strategy (which is who he has surrounded himself with). Schmidtway or the highway it seems!

Have you any quotes about what POC brings to the table by Schmidt. (There are lots of quotes about BOD and others from him).

So you're repeating the implication? He's lying when he praises what Schmidt has brought? He's towing a line to stay on the team? He's afraid to upset the Leinsterfication of Ireland?

Paul O'Connell doesn't do fear or asse-kissing Wink

You know it - I know it.

It's all very intriguing stuff Sin...but you know you're milking as much out of this one as possible.

by **Notch** Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:54 pm

Sin, did you actually take any pleasure out of Ireland winning the championship at all?

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:55 pm

Lol to be honest I see exactly what Guns meant when he mentioned the negativity coming from quite a few Munster fans. We have won the 6 nations and still people are complaining about bias in the squad. Well in his first year with Ireland, with a squad of players who have won 3 HECs for him before, what do you expect? Of course he is more likely to go with what he knows, and his team delivered yet again. Over the years there will be more new players to come into the side.

This is his first 6 nations, and he won. I honestly cannot believe that certain Irish "fans" are complaining already. So bitter.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:57 pm

Of course Sin enjoyed it. Every bit as much as all of us.

Sin just enjoys the 'game'. There has to be bite to keep sport interesting. Love-ins all round are counter-productive to a man enjoying his sport. There's just gotta be friction for perfection Wink

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:29 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:So he's lying when he talks about the massive difference Schmidt has made in getting players comfortable with the clarity they're being given in the roles?

If he wants to avoid saying those things because he doesn't believe them then he's professional enough to find words which would keep him from giving credit to Schmidt at all....for anything. If I didn't like someone I'd be very creative in keeping praise of them off the agenda of replies to questions.

There was never any doubt that the Leinster players buy into his strategy (which is who he has surrounded himself with). Schmidtway or the highway it seems!

Have you any quotes about what POC brings to the table by Schmidt. (There are lots of quotes about BOD and others from him).

So you're repeating the implication? He's lying when he praises what Schmidt has brought? He's towing a line to stay on the team? He's afraid to upset the Leinsterfication of Ireland?

Paul O'Connell doesn't do fear or asse-kissing You know it - I know it.

It's all very intriguing stuff Sin...but you know you're milking as much out of this one as possible.

Look, I'm making the point that I don't think the body language is good between Schmidt & POC. When asked what Schmidt brought to the table, he said he brought clarity and he spoke how the (mostly Leinster) players liked that. Hardly anything to get the champagne out about.

I think his style of coaching suits Leinster & possibly Ulster who seem to go for very authoritarian type coaches now. The most successful Leinster coaches have been Cheika (who put the fear of god into them) and Schmidt, after numerous failures. Both very big on players toeing the line.

Munster go for completely different style coaches.

So its nothing to do about ass kissing or anything else - anything but. I'd say POC is reasonably secure in that he is first choice for Ireland so it wouldn't be that easy to drop him.

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:30 pm

Notch wrote:Sin, did you actually take any pleasure out of Ireland winning the championship at all?

I did. I was delighted for Brian O'Driscoll and the IRFU as the money should come in handy.

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:40 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Lol to be honest I see exactly what Guns meant when he mentioned the negativity coming from quite a few Munster fans. We have won the 6 nations and still people are complaining about bias in the squad. Well in his first year with Ireland, with a squad of players who have won 3 HECs for him before, what do you expect? Of course he is more likely to go with what he knows, and his team delivered yet again. Over the years there will be more new players to come into the side.

This is his first 6 nations, and he won. I honestly cannot believe that certain Irish "fans" are complaining already. So bitter.

Maybe we remember what the problems were up to the Enfield session, how Munster's success* seemed to be hard to take for the other provinces and it was holding Ireland back. The Enfield discussion happened just before the Grand Slam.

*I think Rob Kearney said he envied the Munster players togetherness.

by thebandwagonsociety Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:03 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Lol to be honest I see exactly what Guns meant when he mentioned the negativity coming from quite a few Munster fans. We have won the 6 nations and still people are complaining about bias in the squad. Well in his first year with Ireland, with a squad of players who have won 3 HECs for him before, what do you expect? Of course he is more likely to go with what he knows, and his team delivered yet again. Over the years there will be more new players to come into the side.

This is his first 6 nations, and he won. I honestly cannot believe that certain Irish "fans" are complaining already. So bitter.

Maybe we remember what the problems were up to the Enfield session, how Munster's success* seemed to be hard to take for the other provinces and it was holding Ireland back. The Enfield discussion happened just before the Grand Slam.

*I think Rob Kearney said he envied the Munster players togetherness.

He was pointing out that togetherness didn't seem to extend to the Irish set up and that players seemed to perform to a higher standard when they were wearing a red jersey than when they were playing in a green jersey. That was the envy he was expressing.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:25 pm

Sin é wrote:

So its nothing to do about ass kissing or anything else - anything but. I'd say POC is reasonably secure in that he is first choice for Ireland so it wouldn't be that easy to drop him.

Therefore he wouldn't be inclined to bullschit when asked questions. He says what he means, he's not doing it for the cameras.

He said the Leinster guys were telling him what to expect and that they were true to their word - Joe takes pressure off players (not puts pressure on them) by letting them know precisely what their role is. Leinster guys have a head start, other players will catch up and have been doing so in training.

Schmidt is Ireland coach, he isn't Munster coach. Munster players don't have to rate him as a coach. They don't have to find him a natural coach in tune with their ways. They simply want to get into the Ireland squad.

They won't inflict their ways on him - he'll inflict his ways on willing Munster, Connacht, Leinster and Ulster players. It'll be the players' choice. If they want in, they'll adapt. If they want to be stubborn, then they'll find they won't be welcome in the Ireland set-up. That won't be due to bad blood, that'll be due to their chosen ways not fitting the requirements.
Mishmash Irish teams, with watered down dual and treble Provincial tactics designed to suit everyone, won't work anymore. One system and players willing to play it or choosing not to be part of it. That's all that's going to be happening for the next few years until Joe gets the sack Wink

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:35 pm

Sorry lads, I need some help here with this one. I'm struggling.

We have an article from Denis Leamy criticising provincial bias in selection right? Denis Leamy. Is there another Denis Leamy I don't know about? It can't be the same one, no way. I mean this is the guy who Kidney selected undeservedly despite being, for the last couple of seasons of his career a) in a run of form resembling bovine excrement, and b) crocked a far bit of the time. He has less shame than Shamie McShame from Shametown Road, Shameville Its a nice spot. You get quite a lot of commuters who travel in and out Shameopolis. Personally I can't stand those folk who move to the countryside. Shower of jumped up bellends. Thinking above their station. Back to Shameopolis where you come from!

And the guy who is defending this is Sin? I mean come one. Sin. Just think about who we are talking about. Sin. This is the guy recently appointed WUMmaster General of the People's Republic of Cork. It's a nice title, but not much real power. You do get to wear a tricorne, powdered wig, and tartan plus-fours three days a week and either Saturday or Sunday. Not both mind. Because that would just be silly.

Lads, seriously. It's Sin. Look at his post about looking up pictures of Schmidt and POC. That is not even in the top 10 of his most cretinous statements in this place. Come on. Everyone knows that the only pictures on the internet are either cat memes and pornography. Both incidentally contain pussies. Awk now H&H. That was crude. You bad boy. Where does that dirty mind come from. Spending to much time with Rodders mum probably. She's an animal.

The real question is why are you conversing with someone who know to be, how can I say this.....errrr....one of God's special little champions. Yeah, thats the one.

A bigger question I suppose is about Notch. Questions need to be asked. A revolt is in the offing. Made a mod yet how does he use this power? For good? Catch yourself on big cheese. Chairman Mao would batter you into a pulp with his little red book. You remember the colour red you scallywag? Thats the colour you use when threads are getting out of hand. We all know what Sin is like, yet he is tolerated, like a pervy drunken uncle leching over your new wife at your own wedding. Shameful.

Personally I'm delighted Ireland won. But that's because I'm a fan of Irish rugby you see. That's the trick. That's the secret. Poor Paddy Jackson, probably the harshest treated player in the squad. Yet not a jot was given by this poster over his dropping.

by GunsGerms Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:43 pm

Sin é wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:You sound quite bitter Sin?

I think tactically Schmidt was more or less spot on for the England game. He gave the team the moves and game plan to win the game but the execution was off particularly Sexton. With a bit more cohesion and time together hopefully this will improve.

Exactly, Jackson was left on the bench even though Sexton had taken quite a knock. Jackson got 1 minute.
Boss got 1 minute in 2 games.

If Kidney did that, you'd have a hanging party out for him. Declan Kidney had to apologise to Leo Cullen in the press about Cullen getting 2 or 3 minutes once.

I think Sexton being the best OH in the NH and possibly the world is fairly undroppable at this point. Don't you? Even an underperforming Sexton is pretty good.

by wolfball Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:45 pm

Sin é wrote:
Notch wrote:Sin, did you actually take any pleasure out of Ireland winning the championship at all?

I did. I was delighted for Brian O'Driscoll and the IRFU as the money should come in handy.

Hookism, you are right in most you say, but you have to admit, this is priceless... I literally nearly fell over laughing at its perfect 7 word summary of irish begrudgery.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:50 pm

Personally I could care less how POC gets on with Schmidt, as long as Ireland keep getting the goods. Kidney seemed to be a very popular man with his players, and yeah that is great, but as a rugby team we were awful. Results are what matter here.

by Feckless Rogue Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:53 pm

First of all I can't believe this discussion is even happening the week we won the title. Even I, the founding member of the Kidney-out club, only turned on him when the performances turned to cr@p in 2010. I was all "In Deccie we trust" after the Grand Slam. I'm an Irish supporter. I can't understand the parochial provincial attitude at all. It's about how the squad of Irishmen play. When they play well and win a title a year after losing to Italy that's brilliant. What provinces people are from is completely irrellevent. It's international rugby.

Secondly

Sin e wrote:Look, I'm making the point that I don't think the body language is good between Schmidt & POC

I have to say I thought I noticed that too to be honest. POC has praised Schmidt's methods but not quite as enthusiastically as others, and he didn't seem as delighted as others to be doing it. Not quite as warm. And they do have a bit of a history. Reminds me of BOD and Kidney. Not hatred or anything like that. But never very lovey-dovey either.

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:32 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:

So its nothing to do about ass kissing or anything else - anything but. I'd say POC is reasonably secure in that he is first choice for Ireland so it wouldn't be that easy to drop him.

Therefore he wouldn't be inclined to bullschit when asked questions. He says what he means, he's not doing it for the cameras.

He said the Leinster guys were telling him what to expect and that they were true to their word - Joe takes pressure off players (not puts pressure on them) by letting them know precisely what their role is. Leinster guys have a head start, other players will catch up and have been doing so in training.

Schmidt is Ireland coach, he isn't Munster coach. Munster players don't have to rate him as a coach. They don't have to find him a natural coach in tune with their ways. They simply want to get into the Ireland squad.

They won't inflict their ways on him - he'll inflict his ways on willing Munster, Connacht, Leinster and Ulster players. It'll be the players' choice. If they want in, they'll adapt. If they want to be stubborn, then they'll find they won't be welcome in the Ireland set-up. That won't be due to bad blood, that'll be due to their chosen ways not fitting the requirements.
Mishmash Irish teams, with watered down dual and treble Provincial tactics designed to suit everyone, won't work anymore. One system and players willing to play it or choosing not to be part of it. That's all that's going to be happening for the next few years until Joe gets the sack

POC is the captain, he isn't going to criticise the coach or his coaching methods in public.

He did say recently that he felt he didn't deserve to be cited for kicking Dave Kearney which Schmidt wanted him to be.

Its not what he coaches, or his tactics - his obsession to detail etc.

The problem is that the Munster playersm have to deal with two coaching methods. Its making it all too complicated for them, rather than simplyfing the process.

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:36 pm

Thats right hookie, have a go at the messenger, not the message. Feel good that you now have had a few cheap shots at Denis Leamy?

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:39 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Personally I could care less how POC gets on with Schmidt, as long as Ireland keep getting the goods. Kidney seemed to be a very popular man with his players, and yeah that is great, but as a rugby team we were awful. Results are what matter here.

Rory, worth recalling what the issues were as to why Ireland wasn't achieving prior to Kidney taking over and Ireland winning their first GS since 1948? History usually repeats itself, and Ireland will not be winning too much if he alienates half his players.

Lets not forget, not all players has flourished with him as their coach.

by **Notch** Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:40 pm

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
A bigger question I suppose is about Notch. Questions need to be asked. A revolt is in the offing. Made a mod yet how does he use this power? For good? Catch yourself on big cheese. Chairman Mao would batter you into a pulp with his little red book. You remember the colour red you scallywag? Thats the colour you use when threads are getting out of hand. We all know what Sin is like, yet he is tolerated, like a pervy drunken uncle leching over your new wife at your own wedding. Shameful.

Here look, we're Irish. We get impassioned. We're parochial. We're opinionated. All of that is fine. I'm only a mod when things do get out of hand, which is when people start getting all bent out of shape and throwing insults around. Or hitting that wee report button because they just can't bare this nonsense! Until then, we're cool fools in swimming pools.

The rest of the time I just post as a poster. Given the title and the subject of this thread, I'd say we all knew what we were getting into here! It's different to hijacking a more rugby orientated thread.

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:47 pm

Notch wrote:
Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
A bigger question I suppose is about Notch. Questions need to be asked. A revolt is in the offing. Made a mod yet how does he use this power? For good? Catch yourself on big cheese. Chairman Mao would batter you into a pulp with his little red book. You remember the colour red you scallywag? Thats the colour you use when threads are getting out of hand. We all know what Sin is like, yet he is tolerated, like a pervy drunken uncle leching over your new wife at your own wedding. Shameful.

Here look, we're Irish. We get impassioned. We're parochial. We're opinionated. All of that is fine. I'm only a mod when things do get out of hand, which is when people start getting all bent out of shape and throwing insults around. Or hitting that wee report button because they just can't bare this nonsense! Until then, we're cool fools in swimming pools.

The rest of the time I just post as a poster. Given the title and the subject of this thread, I'd say we all knew what we were getting into here! It's different to hijacking a more rugby orientated thread.

You disgust me Notch. You have power and yet you refuse to either use it for evil or do my bidding. Like some sort of albino baboon with a big red arse. Well sonny, I'll tan that backside unless you buck your ideas up. And your father will go through you for a shortcut. And other culchie chat. I need a yellow smiley faced lad to express my disgust visually. warning

Oh, they have one with Stalin's moustache. May it inspire you as it inspires me. mo1

The Kaiser's moustache is better I know. Those Austro-Hungarians knew how to do it as well. That said the Habsburg women are another story altogether.

by **Notch** Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:49 pm

Certainly thats a paragraph of text and no mistake.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:51 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Personally I could care less how POC gets on with Schmidt, as long as Ireland keep getting the goods. Kidney seemed to be a very popular man with his players, and yeah that is great, but as a rugby team we were awful. Results are what matter here.

Rory, worth recalling what the issues were as to why Ireland wasn't achieving prior to Kidney taking over and Ireland winning their first GS since 1948? History usually repeats itself, and Ireland will not be winning too much if he alienates half his players.

Lets not forget, not all players has flourished with him as their coach.

What you are saying is totally irrelevant though, because there is absolutely no proof that any player feels alienated playing under Schmidt. You are drawing silly conclusions based on absolutely nothing. To be honest it is pathetic to see a few "fans" on here getting bitter after just winning a 6 nations. What is there to complain about? We came 5th last year.

Also, who hasn't flourished under Schmidt, might I ask?

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:52 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:
I have to say I thought I noticed that too to be honest. POC has praised Schmidt's methods but not quite as enthusiastically as others, and he didn't seem as delighted as others to be doing it. Not quite as warm. And they do have a bit of a history. Reminds me of BOD and Kidney. Not hatred or anything like that. But never very lovey-dovey either.

So, I'm not the only one then. At least Kidney was photographed congratulating BOD!

by GunsGerms Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:52 pm

Simon Zebo probably.

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:58 pm

[quote="Feckless Rogue"]First of all I can't believe this discussion is even happening the week we won the title. Even I, the founding member of the Kidney-out club, only turned on him when the performances turned to cr@p in 2010. I was all "In Deccie we trust" after the Grand Slam. I'm an Irish supporter. I can't understand the parochial provincial attitude at all. It's about how the squad of Irishmen play. When they play well and win a title a year after losing to Italy that's brilliant. What provinces people are from is completely irrellevent. It's international rugby.

Secondly

Sin e wrote:Look, I'm making the point that I don't think the body language is good between Schmidt & POC

Kidney used the best players available from all Provinces in his first year to win the Grand Slam. He didn't fill the team with fringe players from Munster so even the more rabid Kidney out club had to hold their fire for a year as his teams kept winning.

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:02 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Also, who hasn't flourished under Schmidt, might I ask?

Carlos Spencer is the most high profile one.

Fionn Carr actually disimproved while with Leinster.

Lots of players (especially backs) left Leinster for some reason as well. Leinster shouldn't need to have to bring in any players in the backs.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:06 pm

Sin é wrote:
Feckless Rogue wrote:
I have to say I thought I noticed that too to be honest. POC has praised Schmidt's methods but not quite as enthusiastically as others, and he didn't seem as delighted as others to be doing it. Not quite as warm. And they do have a bit of a history. Reminds me of BOD and Kidney. Not hatred or anything like that. But never very lovey-dovey either.

So, I'm not the only one then. At least Kidney was photographed congratulating BOD!

......And the cup Wink

Didn't see Schmidt congratulating the Cup. He kept in the background. He understands that his players did the work and oozed the sweat Wink

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:07 pm

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
Personally I'm delighted Ireland won. But that's because I'm a fan of Irish rugby you see. That's the trick. That's the secret. Poor Paddy Jackson, probably the harshest treated player in the squad. Yet not a jot was given by this poster over his dropping.

Well, Denis Leamy said that Paddy Jackson shouldn't have been dropped and I agree with him (and have made that point elsewhere).

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:08 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Feckless Rogue wrote:
I have to say I thought I noticed that too to be honest. POC has praised Schmidt's methods but not quite as enthusiastically as others, and he didn't seem as delighted as others to be doing it. Not quite as warm. And they do have a bit of a history. Reminds me of BOD and Kidney. Not hatred or anything like that. But never very lovey-dovey either.

So, I'm not the only one then. At least Kidney was photographed congratulating BOD!

......And the cup Didn't see Schmidt congratulating the Cup. He kept in the background. He understands that his players did the work and oozed the sweat

Em, I'm pretty sure I saw him congratulating & celebrating with BOD & Sexton.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:09 pm

Sin é wrote:

Lots of players (especially backs) left Leinster for some reason as well. Leinster shouldn't need to have to bring in any players in the backs.

Who did Munster have in their backs over the years? All Munster academy players?

by mrsuperclear Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:11 pm

Sin é wrote:
Feckless Rogue wrote:
I have to say I thought I noticed that too to be honest. POC has praised Schmidt's methods but not quite as enthusiastically as others, and he didn't seem as delighted as others to be doing it. Not quite as warm. And they do have a bit of a history. Reminds me of BOD and Kidney. Not hatred or anything like that. But never very lovey-dovey either.

So, I'm not the only one then. At least Kidney was photographed congratulating BOD!

Yeah, to be honest, in my drunken delirium after winning the six nations I sort of had that feeling as well when POC had his interview. I wouldn't necessarily say I think he has bad blood with Schmidt, but he definitely didn't praise the new regime as enthusiastically as others might have. I imagine it's nothing though and I soon forgot about it once another tasty pint was placed in front of me. Oh, the delirium, happiness and banter from Saturday night, I want to go back...

Anyway, we won the six nations a year after losing to Italy, ITALY who we just smashed not two weeks ago. The fringe lads from Ulster, Munster (and dare I say Connacht) will be integrated into the squad over the summer and autumn and all will be grand. He won two Heineken cups, an Amlin & Pro 12 with Leinster, that's 4 trophies. He therefore still owes Ireland a few by my calculations......

by **Notch** Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:18 pm

If O'Connell and Schmidt don't get on, which I think is a complete red herring by the way, why would it be automatically assumed that was more Schmidts fault than O'Connells?

To be honest if the Munster lads keep performing the way Murray, POC and O'Mahony have been this season then we won't have any problems. I imagine we'll be seeing more of Donnacha Ryan as well given Schmidts praise for him, but with Tuohy and Henderson also in the mix and Toner completely reborn someone who is very, very good will be missing out at lock.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:23 pm

Notch wrote:If O'Connell and Schmidt don't get on, which I think is a complete red herring by the way, why would it be automatically assumed that was more Schmidts fault than O'Connells?

Schmidt did the dirty and said Paulie should have been cited. Omerta. Feud. Lifetime of suppressed hate from Paulie.

That's the movie script. But luckily enough, I think it's based on a true story and we all know movies based on true stories are mostly unabashed fantasy

by **Notch** Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:24 pm

Oh, of course I forgot Rolling Eyes

This place eh Fly? Jeez louise!

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:26 pm

For the record - Leamy's article rather than a report of Leamy's article. This article appeared in the Weekly Supplement on Munster (only circulated in Munster) in the Independent. Leinster have a similar arrangement with the Evening Herald which is a Dublin evening paper also owned by the Independent.

-----

Munster players harshly treated
Zebo, Ryan and O'Donnell decisions are puzzling but Ireland will still win in Paris

Ireland's Simon Zebo in action during squad training

Denis Leamy – Published 14 March 2014 02:30 AM

Ireland have a dreadful record in Paris, but I think they will win tomorrow. To be honest, I think we are 10-12 points a better team than France and, if this match was taking place at a neutral venue that is the sort of margin which would be between them.
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But the match is in Paris and for some reason Ireland struggle to perform there, and even poor French teams raise their game. That's why I think it will be tight, but I expect Ireland to win it.

You have to presume Joe Schmidt knows what he is doing and if they win the Championship tomorrow, then there can't be much argument about it. He has gone with players he has worked with and is familiar with, and guys he believes can execute the game plan he wants.

ARGUMENT

Nevertheless, I thought he would have widened the options for the Italian game – and you don't have to go far in this region to hear people's dissatisfaction that there are so few Munster players involved.

The argument is along the lines that Munster are in a rich vein of form, they have been near the top of the Pro12 all season and have qualified for the quarter-finals of the Heineken Cup, yet only a handful of players are involved with the national team.

Of course, Leinster have also been near the top of the league all season and have also qualified for the quarter-finals of the Heineken Cup. And Schmidt has coached and worked with these guys for the past few years and he knows them inside out, and they him.

Yet, I think what rankles with Munster people – and I suspect a similar view might be held by some folk up in Ulster – is that guys who aren't first choice in Leinster are still good enough for the national squad.

In fairness, that may also reflect the strength that Leinster have at the moment. However, I would have to disagree with some of the calls.

It is one thing losing your place on the team to a player coming back from injury or something like that, but Tommy O'Donnell lost his place on the bench. I can't see what he did wrong in the short roles that he had against Scotland and Wales and, in any event, I think he is a better player than Jordi Murphy.

Also, I would argue that Donnacha Ryan brings more to the table than Rhys Ruddock, and you just have to wonder what Simon Zebo – a Lion last summer, let's not forget – has to do to get back into a squad where the likes of Tommy Bowe and Luke Fitzgerald have been out injured all through.

You can see where Munster supporters feel there is too much of an emphasis on Leinster players, and I also think that Paddy Jackson has a more rounded game at the moment than Ian Madigan.

Schmidt has gone with players he is very familiar with and victory tomorrow in Paris will justify those tight calls.

However, with South Africa and Australia coming here for the November games and then only the Six Nations this time next year before the World Cup, the two-match summer tour to Argentina is going to take on a new level of importance.

After all, for example, there is going to be a gaping hole at No 13 and nobody has been groomed to fill it. It is testimony to Brian O'Driscoll that he has managed to remain so injury-free – after encountering a lot of difficulties early in his career – that opportunities have been far and few between for others to stake a claim to that position.

But the circle will need to be widened and having not done that in this Six Nations campaign, it narrows the opportunities.

Yet, you can understand the reasoning behind a lot of Schmidt's calls and at the outset of the competition it would have been a goal to be heading to Paris on the final weekend still in contention for the Championship.

The fact that they are is testimony to a lot and victory tomorrow would be a great way to round off O'Driscoll's career in a city where he announced his arrival on the big stage.

It would also be a perfect start to Schmidt's reign. He has an unique insight into the French game having worked with Clermont Auvergne.

The Irish defence has been superb – just two tries conceded – and I think that will provide the platform for a rare success in Paris tomorrow.

It's long overdue, but I think their superiority will win through despite all the psychological baggage.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/munster-players-harshly-treated-30091361.html

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:33 pm

Notch wrote:If O'Connell and Schmidt don't get on, which I think is a complete red herring by the way, why would it be automatically assumed that was more Schmidts fault than O'Connells?

To be honest if the Munster lads keep performing the way Murray, POC and O'Mahony have been this season then we won't have any problems. I imagine we'll be seeing more of Donnacha Ryan as well given Schmidts praise for him, but with Tuohy and Henderson also in the mix and Toner completely reborn someone who is very, very good will be missing out at lock.

Who is blaming Schmidt for the feud?

Worth reading back on Ireland pre Enfield meeting and how a lack of unity in a squad can affect the team performance.
It shouldn't be a problem though if he keeps picking all his players from Leinster.

by **Notch** Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:33 pm

Denis Leamy wrote:Schmidt has gone with players he is very familiar with and victory tomorrow in Paris will justify those tight calls.

Do you agree with that too Sin?

Its as I suspected. Poor Leams has had the media highlight one thing he has said and blown it all out of proportion. I would say the reason is that Munster and Ulster still suffer from a skills deficit. Leinster Academy is doing a better job than anyone in producing players with a great all-round game and when we catch up to them we'll get more guys in. The really top class international players Ulster and Munster have produced have been straight in and really effective with it.

But if reality hurts various delusions are available Wink

by **Notch** Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:33 pm

Sin é wrote:Worth reading back on Ireland pre Enfield meeting and how a lack of unity in a squad can affect the team performance.

How do you feel it's affecting Ireland right now?

by Sin é Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:50 pm

Notch wrote:
Sin é wrote:Worth reading back on Ireland pre Enfield meeting and how a lack of unity in a squad can affect the team performance.

How do you feel it's affecting Ireland right now?

Maybe it will have no affect. As long as Leinster can keep supplying players.

I also don't like the intimation that players like Zebo are not skilled, hard working, wrong attitude just because they don't fit in with Joe's gameplan.

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