Ulster vs Saracens - HC quarter final - Saturday, 5th April 6:30pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster vs Saracens.

Saturday 5th April at 6:30pm

First game at a newly renovated Ravenhill I believe with a new capacity of 18,000.

Ulster are currently 3rd in the Pro12 and won all their pool stages in the HC, including impressive away wins vs Leicester and Montpellier.

They have a few Irish players who were involved in the title winning 6 nations like Best and Trimble. Trimble in particular had a very good tournament.

Close to full strength in terms of their squad.

According to Ulster fans their current form hasn't been great but I take that firmly with a pinch of salt. Their latest result - a loss to Cardiff could shake any sense of complacency.


Saracens are currently the league leaders in the AP with a healthy 7 point gap off 2nd placed Saints. Just 2 losses in the AP in 18 matches which contrasts with their two losses in the pool stages of the HC. Saracens are currently the top try scorers in the AP and were top try scorers in the HC pool stages. Form wise Saracens have been comfortable without really putting in a notable performance.

Notable clashes

Best vs Brits - the Irish hooker vs the flamboyant South African who plays more like a centre - will be key in getting their teams into good positions.

Muller vs Borthwick - skipper vs skipper - both will be key in inspiring their sides.

Jackson vs Farrell - the 2nd choice Irish 10 vs the current England 10 - both will be expected to boss the game and take any opportunities and points on offer



Ulster team

15. J Payne
14. A Trimble
13. D Cave
12. L Marshall
11.T Bowe
10. P Jackson
9. R Pienaar

1. T Court
2.R Best
3. J Afoa
4.J Muller (C)
5.D Tuohy
6.R Wilson
7.N Williams
8.C Henry

16. R Herring
17.A Warwick
18.R Lutton
19.I Henderson
20.S Ferris
21.R Diack
22.P Marshall
23.C Gilroy






Saracens team



15. Alex Goode
14. Chris Ashton
13. Duncan Taylor
12. Brad Barritt
11. David Strettle
10. Owen Farrell
9. Richard Wigglesworth

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Schalk Brits
3. James Johnston
4. Steve Borthwick ©
5. Mouritz Botha
6. Billy Vunipola
7. Jacques Burger
8. Ernst Joubert

16. Jamie George
17. Richard Barrington
18. Matt Stevens
19. Eoin Sheriff
20. Kelly Brown
21. Neil de Kock
22. Charlie Hodgson
23. Chris Wyles


Thoughts?

beshocked, I had to remove your post as it's against the rules of the site. I've sent you a PM

Ah right. Hang him for not interupting the medical staff?

He went to see Goode in the dug out when he came out to watch the rest of the game.

And it was retarded in fairness. I'm off because if I stay and talk I will end up sounding just as stupid

Exiledinborders wrote:

MrsP wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:The red card decision could have gone either way. I would have some sympathy with him if his first reaction was to look to the player he injured rather than trying to excuse himself and try and avoid a red card.

Just reviewed it and no sign on any concern about Goode from Payne.

Could that be because he had no idea how Goode had landed as he was knocked completely back and off his feet by the contact?

Didn't show any concern immediately or subsequently when it looked as though he was seriously injured.

Get a grip. It was an accident. Players generally walk away, even from their own players to let the medics get on with it. Goode ran in at an angle unsighted by Payne. If Payne had have been in the air the penalty could have gone either way, and there would be no red card, as there should have never been. Yellow would have been fair enough.

Really surprised that Borthwick had no knowledge of how Goode was at the end of the game - did he not ask at half time?

And did he not see him on the pitch at the end?

Exiledinborders wrote:

MrsP wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:The red card decision could have gone either way. I would have some sympathy with him if his first reaction was to look to the player he injured rather than trying to excuse himself and try and avoid a red card.

Just reviewed it and no sign on any concern about Goode from Payne.

Could that be because he had no idea how Goode had landed as he was knocked completely back and off his feet by the contact?

Didn't show any concern immediately or subsequently when it looked as though he was seriously injured.

Wasn't exactly given many seconds to go over to show concern for Goode. Goode's teammates had other things they wanted to talk about to him at the time.

Technically it had to be red. You could say Payne was silly to be caught with hands on Goode when his own slipping feet took him and Goode down. He knew he was in serious trouble. But you could also say that Goode's teammates didn't exactly show concern for Goode either as they kept their attention firmly on the 'perpetrator'.

 

What's up with Ulster and poor refs? i remember them being robbed at Clermont too.

beshocked wrote:Munchkin hardly impartial are you? You can call it an accident. Pistorius said shooting his girlfriend was an accident. Still stupid, reckless and punishable.

Try not to equate the two incidents. It's pathetic. No I'm not impartial, but I did take the time to look at the replay, and judge for myself. I could also say you're hardly impartial, but I'm not that shallow.

Best team lost this evening. See, I'm not impartial...

beshocked wrote:Munchkin hardly impartial are you? You can call it an accident. Pistorius said shooting his girlfriend was an accident. Still stupid, reckless and punishable.

Seriously? What a pathetic comment, what is it with all these idiots taking over the forums today?

Apparently not Mrs P.

It seems Payne should have interrupted the medical staff who were giving Goode first aid after the incident yet his own captain was oblivious to Alex's well-being an hour and a half later. Is that what New York does to you?

Notch you are abusing your power. You want to quieten me because I am questioning you and insulting you. I would not call you those words if I did not think they were true.

I find it rich you call me immature when aren't man enough to apologise for your incorrect slurs about Saracens. You are still pontificating about Ulster being a "real" club.

As for being immature - you're the one moaning about the red card instead of acknowledging Payne was at fault for his recklessness.

Comments like yours make me feel no sympathy for Ulster. When instead I should be acknowledging Ulster's fight and tenacity.

beshocked wrote:Notch you are abusing your power. You want to quieten me because I am questioning you and insulting you. I would not call you those words if I did not think they were true.

I find it rich you call me immature when aren't man enough to apologise for your incorrect slurs about Saracens. You are still pontificating about Ulster being a "real" club.

As for being immature - you're the one moaning about the red card instead of acknowledging Payne was at fault for his recklessness.

Comments like yours make me feel no sympathy for Ulster. When instead I should be acknowledging Ulster's fight and tenacity.

As an Ulster fan I couldn't care less about your sympathy, Beshocked. Do us all a favour and take your private grudge with Notch elsewhere. Try PMs.

Rory Gallagher what exactly do you disagree with?

Munchkin Ulster were not the best team because they lost due to unforgiveable stupidity of one of their players. They were also out scored 3 tries to 0.

beshocked wrote:Rory Gallagher what exactly do you disagree with?

You think a murder trial is comparable to a game of rugby.

What do you think I disagree with?   

Not to mention the fact you are wrong about the Payne situation anyway..

Well, yes beshocked! I am quieting you because you are insulting me. Do you not realise that its against the rules to insult other posters? I'm a mod, i have to enforce the rules and yes- if you insult people I will do that, whether its against me you or anyone else!

Go read your PMs instead of ruining this thread so we can deal with this without having to bring everyone else in. You know that insults are punishable by bans. If you keep throwing insults around you'll probably get banned. Just calm down and step back from the keyboard for a second.

Beshocked represents Sarries so well actually. I'd treasure that fact and move on.

Garces said to his assistant referee it was intentionnal to him, and thats were he got it wrong.

With the intensity they showed, Ulster had enough to win this with some to spare, similar to the scoreline last year.

beshocked wrote:Rory Gallagher what exactly do you disagree with?

Munchkin Ulster were not the best team because they lost due to unforgiveable stupidity of one of their players. They were also out scored 3 tries to 0.

beshocked. Grow up. Your team won tonight. You should be celebrating. Not this nonsense. I probably shouldn't be posting in the mood I'm in though. So will leave you to it.

Goodnight.

Gibson wrote:Beshocked represents Sarries so well actually. I'd treasure that fact and move on.

Classic...   

Very gracious Beshocked.

  

Well done and good luck in the semi.

Munchkin fair enough. Be a sore loser. Blame the ref etc. In my opinion your lying to yourself. Payne let Ulster down. He's the reason you lost.

As for my own team - we were awful. Poor tactics, poor discipline, stupid errors. Lots to work on. Fortunate of course but we have a semi final to hopefully put in a much improved performance.

It's a pity that Garces didn't have the empathy for the game that Rolland had for the Clermont Leicester game. Rolland had the rugby brain to see that the player being taken out in the air was accidental and only awarded a penalty rather than a game defining red card.

Rory Gallagher you're an Irish man... Of course you disagree.....

MrsP what should I say? How well saracens played? We were awful. Should I make a remark about how well Ulster played with 14 men? I thought you were good but blew a golden opportunity with the recklessness of one of your players.

As for celebrating - it wasn't really a performance or match to savour.

I do not believe that Payne was deliberately trying to hurt Goode, but his actions were reckless and did endanger the player. It was a clear cut penalty with any further sanction being down to personal perspective. Like most (I think) I felt a Yellow was the right call, though it sounded as if the commentators (Mark Robson and Ieuan Evans?) thought Red was likely. It was unfortunate and it was the key factor in the match - but it was not an obvious error.



Oh and if Ashton had challenged Trimble say in the same way, these boards would have exploded.


Ulster fans you should be proud of your team and go sleep off the pending hangover.

Sarries fan go to bed also and take a massive chill pill.

beshocked wrote:Munchkin fair enough. Be a sore loser. Blame the ref etc. In my opinion your lying to yourself. Payne let Ulster down. He's the reason you lost.

As for my own team - we were awful. Poor tactics, poor discipline, stupid errors. Lots to work on. Fortunate of course but we have a semi final  to  hopefully put in a much improved performance.

I've just realized who Saracens and their fans players and management remind me on.......Chelsea  Not sure if that counts as an insult but oh well

The Great Aukster wrote:Really surprised that Borthwick had no knowledge of how Goode was at the end of the game - did he not ask at half time?

Yeah, that struck me as odd as well. Assumed the coaches would have passed on the news that he was up and about to Sarries boys at half time.

Don't worry great aukster. Rolland aka the worst ref in the world will probably get the Saracens-Clermont semi final.

LondonTiger wrote:I do not believe that Payne was deliberately trying to hurt Goode, but his actions were reckless and did endanger the player. It was a clear cut penalty with any further sanction being down to personal perspective. Like most (I think) I felt a Yellow was the right call, though it sounded as if the commentators (Mark Robson and Ieuan Evans?) thought Red was likely. It was unfortunate and it was the key factor in the match - but it was not an obvious error.



Oh and if Ashton had challenged Trimble say in the same way, these boards would have exploded.


Ulster fans you should be proud of your team and go sleep off the pending hangover.

Sarries fan go to bed also and take a massive chill pill.

Don't you be turning up with your reason and good sense, Tiger!

GLove39 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Really surprised that Borthwick had no knowledge of how Goode was at the end of the game - did he not ask at half time?

Yeah, that struck me as odd as well. Assumed the coaches would have passed on the news that he was up and about to Sarries boys at half time.

I assumed Borthwick would have been concerned enough to find out?

beshocked wrote:Don't worry great aukster. Rolland aka the worst ref in the world will probably get the Saracens-Clermont semi final.

Hardly the worst ref in the world, although I do think he has put in a run of bad performances recently.

London tiger why can't you address me by my name?

As for if it was Ashton and Trimble - agreed.

beshocked wrote:Don't worry great aukster. Rolland aka the worst ref in the world will probably get the Saracens-Clermont semi final.

getting your excuses in early? Maybe you should go to B&Q that day ?

Its even odder that he commended his team's performance. They'll be manshamed if they play like that against 15 men for 80 minutes.

Leinsterfan4life an exaggeration but I do dislike Rolland. I do not like his way of reffing.

Forget Rolland.

He had nothing to do with Ulster/Saracens.

beshocked wrote:Don't worry great aukster. Rolland aka the worst ref in the world will probably get the Saracens-Clermont semi final.

Hmm... if he's the worst what does that make Garces?

Rolland does get the French gigs, and he's not getting the Munster semi. You'd better shout for Leinster tomorrow and then they could get Poite and you might get Owens. I wouldn't celebrate too much though as Owens also has an empathy for the game.

I never tought i would see again a game with as big an asterisk as France-Wales at the RWC 2011.

Apparently it would appear Garces was told by the tmo it was accidental and that it was just a yellow.

The Great Aukster wrote:

beshocked wrote:Don't worry great aukster. Rolland aka the worst ref in the world will probably get the Saracens-Clermont semi final.

Hmm... if he's the worst what does that make Garces?

Rolland does get the French gigs, and he's not getting the Munster semi. You'd better shout for Leinster tomorrow and then they could get Poite and you might get Owens. I wouldn't celebrate too much though as Owens also has an empathy for the game.

Owens always gets the Leinster games, he loves us   

Tecphobe no I always want my team to avoid Rolland as a ref. funnily enough I will be busy that weekend anyway.

Munkian who commended the team performance? Borthwick? I hope in private he gives them a huge telling off I blame Mccalls poor tactics too.

Mindless kicking when the opposition is down to 14 men is not smart.

beshocked wrote:Tecphobe no I always want my team to avoid Rolland as a ref. funnily enough I will be busy that weekend anyway.

Munkian who commended the team performance? Borthwick? I hope in private he gives them a huge telling off I blame Mccalls poor tactics too.

Mindless kicking when the opposition is down to 14 men is not smart.

I think with the full back missing it was smart to kick as there was always going to be plenty of space. The kicks were executed poorly though.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Owens always gets the Leinster games, he loves us   

Mutter, mutter, mutter.

Sarries kicked because they were getting hammered in the collisions. The trys clearly came from having the extra man....

beshocked wrote:Tecphobe no I always want my team to avoid Rolland as a ref. funnily enough I will be busy that weekend anyway.

Munkian who commended the team performance? Borthwick? I hope in private he gives them a huge telling off I blame Mccalls poor tactics too.

Mindless kicking when the opposition is down to 14 men is not smart.

I was being slightly tongue in cheek, incidentally i agree with you in part in that Sarries seamed to thank just having an extra man would win for them. They were so laxidassical behind

The great aukster what do you mean by he has empathy for the game? Oh and garces and his tmo had ample of time to make a decision.

Secret fly it's Saracens-Clermont next.

LondonTiger wrote:I do not believe that Payne was deliberately trying to hurt Goode, but his actions were reckless and did endanger the player. It was a clear cut penalty with any further sanction being down to personal perspective. Like most (I think) I felt a Yellow was the right call, though it sounded as if the commentators (Mark Robson and Ieuan Evans?) thought Red was likely. It was unfortunate and it was the key factor in the match - but it was not an obvious error.



Oh and if Ashton had challenged Trimble say in the same way, these boards would have exploded.


Ulster fans you should be proud of your team and go sleep off the pending hangover.

Sarries fan go to bed also and take a massive chill pill.

Is a red card the best way to discipline what was essentially a dangerous accident. Surely a yellow followed by post match sanctions (if required) would have been more appropriate.

Also a red card is a red card... But one in the 4th minute and one in the 76th minute is not the same punishment.

Leinstwrfan well personally I thought Saracens should have counter attacked more. Guys like Brits and Billy made good ground.

Should have given the ulster defence more of a work out instead of kicking poorly. Plus the game was too slow in pace.

Saracens quite clearly poorly utilised the man advantage.