Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread III

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Historical Banter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
 
A. Edinburgh
 
1. Pre-season
 
Fri 30 Aug 2013, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 15 - 5 Newcastle Falcons
 
Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:30
Northampton Saints 24 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby
 
2. 2013/2014 Season - Played
 
Sat 7 Sep, 19:15
Munster Rugby 34 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 13 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Sat 21 Sep, 18:30
Ospreys 44 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 9 - 22 Scarlets
 
Sun 6 Oct, 14:05
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 25 Oct, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 13 Benetton Treviso
 
Fri 1 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 23 Zebre
 
Fri 22 Nov 19:05
Ulster Rugby 41 - 17 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 29 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 43 - 10 Connacht
 
Fri 20 Dec 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby 11 - 6 Leinster
 
Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
 
Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sat 15 Feb 17:00
Connacht Rugby 11 - 7 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sat 22 Feb 14:30
Scarlets 25 - 21 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 28 Feb 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby 31 - 25 Ospreys
 
Fri 21 Mar 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 3 - 9 Ulster Rugby
 
Sat 29 Mar 19:00
Benetton Treviso 20 - 16 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Thu 3 Apr 18:30
Newport Gwent Dragons 19 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 11 Apr 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 22 - 29 Cardiff Blues
 
Sat 19 Apr 15:30
Zebre 26 - 13 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sat 26 Apr 19:05
Glasgow Warriors 37 - 34 Edinburgh Rugby
 
3. 2013/2014 Season - Final Games
 
Sat 3 May 17:00
Edinburgh Rugby v Munster Rugby
Meggetland
BBCALBA/TG4
 
Sat 10 May 18:30
Leinster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby
Royal Dublin Society
 
B. Glasgow
 
1. Pre-season
 
Sat 31 Aug 2013, 15:00
Exeter Chiefs 26 - 29 Glasgow Warriors
 
2. 2013/2014 Season
 
Fri 6 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 22 - 15 Cardiff Blues
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 12 - 6 Leinster Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:30
Zebre 17 - 24 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 5 Oct, 18:30
Scarlets 12 - 17 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 25 Oct, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby
 
Sat 2 Nov, 17:00
Connacht Rugby 12 - 19 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 22 Nov, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 23 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Fri 29 Nov, 19:05
Ospreys 16 - 28 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Dec, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors P - P Benetton Treviso
 
Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
 
Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sun 9 Feb 14:00
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 6 Connacht Rugby
 
Sat 15 Feb 18:30
Cardiff Blues 20 - 27 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sun 23 Feb 14:30
Newport Gwent Dragons 24 - 23 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 1 Mar 20:30
Leinster Rugby 28 - 25 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 22 Mar 18:30
Glasgow Warriors 14 - 6 Scarlets
 
Fri 28 Mar 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 11 - 9 Ospreys
 
Fri 4 Apr 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 29 - 10 Benetton Treviso
 
Sat 12 Apr 18:30
Munster Rugby 5 - 22 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 18 Apr 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 27 - 9 Ulster Rugby
 
Sat 26 Apr 19:05
Glasgow Warriors 37 - 34 Edinburgh Rugby
 
3. 2013/2014 Season - Final Games
 
Fri 2 May 20:00
Benetton Treviso v Glasgow Warriors
Stadio Monigo
Mediast/ALBA
 
Sat 10 May 18:30
Glasgow Warriors v Zebre
Scotstoun Stadium
 
[16/17/18 May
PO Semi Final
[tbc] v [tbc]
Venue TBA]
 
[Sat 31 May
PO Final
[tbc] v [tbc]
Venue TBA]
 
***
 
Any and all patter about these teams is welcome.
 
Any jingoism, sledging or graceless kicking of anyone whilst they are up or down will see posts deleted.
 
Be gracious and be constructive.

[RDW]

Dominguez is definitely in the solid yet unspectacular category from what I saw of him last year. Strauss part 2.

[MacKnocked-on]

Would Brian Rennie be worth a punt for Edinburgh? Just been released by Bristol and obviously Scotland A in his time, could be decent squad player?

[funnyExiledScot]

Rennie was also born in South Africa, so would meet Solomons' key criterion.

[RDW]

Released by an English championship team - must be good then!

[RDW]

Oh I've also forgotten we've signed Michael Tait too - another player very much in the Atiga, Strauss, Dominguez mould!

[funnyExiledScot]

Well if he can complete 100 metres in less than 20 seconds I'd take him over Strauss. He's probably not in the same class as a "leader" though......

[funnyExiledScot]

Oh I've also forgotten we've signed Michael Tait too - another player very much in the Atiga, Strauss, Dominguez mould!

I believe a mistake was made. They saw "M Tait" and thought they were getting the former England centre and Leicester fullback. Easy error to make.

[R!skysports]

Must be psychic, just received this

"To renew your membership!   We are also pleased to confirm that we will be playing at BT Murrayfield and our season ticket memberships prices for 2014/15 have been frozen from 2013/14.

This excellent value membership gets you fifteen top class matches: including a home pre-season friendly against top-flight English Premiership opposition to be played in the Borders, eleven highly competitive PRO12 league games and a further three exciting European Cup clashes.

We have also introduced a number of NEW choices for our members :
NEW Direct Debits- Take away the pain, release your wallet from the strain! You are now able to spread the cost of your season ticket over four equal monthly payments (only available by calling ticket office - 0131 346 5180)
NEW Young Person (born on or after 1 August 1992)
NEW Discounted Family Season tickets available! 
With all the thrills and spills of the season ahead to look forward to we are relishing the start of the season and would love to have you along for the ride!

I did not realise Glasgow was planning on playing there 15 times next year....   

[BigGee]

Glasgow just announced that Hall and Grant have both just had surgery. Ryan Grant on his shoulder and will be out for 6 months. That is a bit of a blow and he will miss the autunm internationals as well. I think we will be alrright at hooker, seems to be plenty of those, but we are looking a little light at prop now, TH particularly. One or two more injuries and we could be in the do do big time. I expect that we will be hearing from the pen at some stage in the not to distant future.

[MacKnocked-on]

Oh I've also forgotten we've signed Michael Tait too - another player very much in the Atiga, Strauss, Dominguez mould!

I believe a mistake was made. They saw "M Tait" and thought they were getting the former England centre and Leicester fullback. Easy error to make.

Matthew Tait was SQ I believe, wonder how many caps he would have amassed if he'd chosen Scotland rather than England? A lot I suspect.

[RDW]

Edinburgh have announced pre season friendlies against Newcastle away (again!) Then Leicester Tigers at the Greenyards.

Leicester will be a big game!

[funnyExiledScot]

We do seem to like a friendly fixture against Newcastle. I suppose it makes sense in terms of geography.

I think I may give the old season ticket a miss this year. Much as I've enjoyed watching Edinburgh fail miserably over the last two seasons, often in weather that can only be described as abysmal, without the HC games I don't see much value in it. I'll still subject myself to it on an ad hoc basis no doubt.

The Scotland ticket looks better, with 3 home games in the 6 Nations plus the All Blacks in the AIs.

[RDW]

Edinburgh and Glasgow draws for the European comps:

Pool 4
Edinburgh
Begles Bordeaux
London Welsh
Lyon

Pool 4
Glasgow
Montellier
Bath
Tolouse

Edinburgh's pool is probably one of the better ones in the Challenge cup, but I think it will be a tough ask for Glasgow to get out of that pool.  None of the pools are particualrly easy, but drawing Tolouse as a 4th seeded team instead of the likes of Treviso makes life a lot more difficult!

[George Carlin]

Hmm.

When you look at where their opposition finished in their respective leagues this year:

Pool 4
Edinburgh (8th)
Begles Bordeaux (8th)
London Welsh (1st, Championship)
Lyon (1st, Pro 2)

Pool 4
Glasgow (2nd)
Montellier (2nd)
Bath (5th)
Toulouse (4th)

Could have been worse. Both middle of the road groups although Glasgow's is (relatively) on the tougher side.

[funnyExiledScot]

Tough for Glasgow, but if they play to their potential they have a chance. No-one wants to play them at Scotstoun these days.

Edinburgh should do well in that group, but you really never know with Edinburgh.

[RDW]

Glasgow definitely could have got worse in the 2nd seed (Munster/Leicester) and 3rd (Clermont/Harlequins) seeds, but there isn't that massive a difference. Where they have been very unlucky is the 4th seed drawing Toulouse. There is a massive difference between Toulouse and the other teams - Sale, Wasps, Scarlets and Treviso.

If Glasgow don't win their group I can't see them being one of the three best runners up.

[Totalflanker]

If Glasgow don't win their group I can't see them being one of the three best runners up.

Logic being that all will take points off one and other?

[RDW]

Pretty much! There's no whipping boys to get 8/10 points off

[Totalflanker]

See the order of the matches as pretty key too. Would like us to be away for the first weekend of the back to back match (presuming that is still a feature of the new competition) and a final pool match in France, when hopefully their eyes are on other things.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Getting Toulouse was a blow for Glasgow. Had we drawn Treviso, we would had been looking at (assuming we played well) a 3 way shoot out for probably 2 qualifying places.

As has been said though overall it could have been worse. Its really all about how Glasgow perform. We will need to pick up at least one big road win and that's something we have never been able to do, against good opposition with the group still on the line.

Its going to be a brutally long season for us and as such we really need at least three new faces in. Players who are ready to contribute from day 1.

Edinburgh to crusie their group, assuming they show some improvement on last season, which I think they will.

[funnyExiledScot]

DOT - which positions specifically do you think Glasgow should strengthen?

If Cusack is out then I think there's a need for front row recruitment, particularly tighthead (Euan Murray?), and with Jackson moved on some cover behind Weir and Russell would be sensible.

[RDW]

Euan Murray would be a perfectly sensible move for Glasgow, if he still has the enthusiasm required to make it work.

Just like Strokosh for Edinburgh, but I worry whether he is getting a bit over the hill now - he was beaten off the line from scrums several times against the USA for the number 8 showing him a clean pair of heels.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

DOT - which positions specifically do you think Glasgow should strengthen?

If Cusack is out then I think there's a need for front row recruitment, particularly tighthead (Euan Murray?), and with Jackson moved on some cover behind Weir and Russell would be sensible.

Lock too, as has been mentioned already, given injuries to Kellock and Ryder

[George Carlin]

Also, it is unlikely that Ryan Grant will be able to start the season after his shoulder surgery. It's not a good position for what is conventionally your first choice loosehead and tighthead to be out.

I don't have any feel at all for the quality of player which Glasgow may be able to bring in after last season. I hope that Bomrys and Toonie don't shoot too low.

[RDW]

I was hoping we might unearth some players from this summer tour - just like how Matawalu was discovered when we toured Fiji - but the only player I'd want from USA would be Todd Clever who is earning loadsa money in Japan.

Hopefully we can unearth some gems from Canada or Argentina. There was a lot of unknown Argentinian players who looked pretty decent against Ireland. Argentinian players aren't great to have though because they will be away so long for the Rugby Championship etc.

[Totalflanker]

DOT - which positions specifically do you think Glasgow should strengthen?

If Cusack is out then I think there's a need for front row recruitment, particularly tighthead (Euan Murray?), and with Jackson moved on some cover behind Weir and Russell would be sensible.

Take it there is no further update on Cusack on when/if he will be back?

[George Carlin]

I was hoping we might unearth some players from this summer tour - just like how Matawalu was discovered when we toured Fiji - but the only player I'd want from USA would be Todd Clever who is earning loadsa money in Japan.

Hopefully we can unearth some gems from Canada or Argentina.  There was a lot of unknown Argentinian players who looked pretty decent against Ireland.  Argentinian players aren't great to have though because they will be away so long for the Rugby Championship etc.

Agreed - I thought that in the few games he played Ascarate looked excellent this season.

We didn't really need him, but it's still a shame he went back.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

I think both Edinburgh and Glasgow will recruit some more new faces from outside of the Scottish domestic scene. Our lack of signings does not suprise me. We rarely sign established players from top tier European clubs (a few returning exiles aside), so I would see a number coming in from the SH and these deals are usually done during our Summer.

From a Glasgow point of view, ideally we could do with a proven TH, 7, SH (move Niko to cover wing) and FH (cover), which team wouldn't. What I can see happening is a couple of props coming in. One on a longer term contract and a LH on a short term style deal. Grant is facing being out to around Xmas and even if he comes back quicker he is going to be missing the first couple of Euro games.

Can also see a jack of all trades back coming in, who can cover the centres and if required FH.

Of course this could change if a good quality Project Player becomes available.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

One issue with Ascarate is that even before his injury he was in the Argentinian AIs squad so when we needed him most as cover, he was not available.

Same with the Fijians, AIs is going to really test Glasgows squad.

[VinceWLB]

I hope Grant will use this time on the sideline to add a bit of much needed weight, his scrummaging has been poor last season under the new rules and it wasn't really a surprise to see Reid overtaking him.

Even if Cusack comes back 2 TH are needed for next season with one covering LH. Glasgow can't go the Edinburgh's way and play one TH for the whole season.

At the end of the day and all things considered it is a bit of a shame that none of Low or Cross could get a contract for next season.

[RDW]

Does Grant really need more bulk? Under the new rules bulk is less important IMO - Dickinson has commented how his scrummaging has improved a lot since they got rid of the hit, as it is all about technique now as opposed to just getting smashed back by a big lump on the hit.

Grant has just looked like he lost his spark this season. He's not dominating in the scrums and he's not showing up as much in the loose.

We've been here before but I do think the Lions tour had a big influence on this - it must have been humiliating sitting on that bench on the 2nd watching Gatland show that he'd rather keep Vunipola on the pitch even though he was clearly hanging out his arse than put Grant on. He's not been the same since.

A break will do him good, but shame it's not 3 months instead of 6.

[VinceWLB]

I always thought Grant's technique was sound, so i thought power is what he needs most, even his ball carrying hasn't been good as you rightly pointed out, looked very underpowered at times last season. To be honest playing alongside scrummaging machine Cusack probably made him look better than he really is.

That Lions tour was a waste of time for him where he could have used that time on improving his technique/strength.

[RDW]

On the topic of Al Dickinson, it would appear from Twitter that his girlfriend/wife is a body builder!

So if you like women that can beat you in an arm wrestle and are head to toe orange from fake tan, give her a follow!

[BigGee]

By the sound of things he has been carrying that injury for a while and that may have had some impact on how he has played this season. He was looking a lot sharper at the end though and I thought played very well in the play off games in particular.

[George Carlin]

Would love to steal Grant Shiells from Newcastle if the doctors at Glasgow give his back a clean bill of health. He's really excellent for a youngfeller.

In terms of the other, I would settle for a journeyman like Jannie du Plessis or Gurthro Steenkamp.

[madmaccas]

Few bits and bobs I've either seen or heard. May all be old news but but here they are just in case.

1) Bruce Douglas is still alive AND is going to Cardiff RFC as a player coach

2) Stuart McInally is back at Edinburgh

3) Glasgow's last pre-season game will be against London Scottish

4) Over 20,000 people watched the Scotland USA game on the Daily Record site

5) Scotland are now 8th in the IRB Rankings

6) Exeter Prop James Phillips is rumoured to be London Scottish's latest signing.

7) It's rumoured that whilst Ross Rennie doesn't have a release clause, he does have a loan clause that he can control.

[Guest]

20,000? Really? That's probably 20,000 pageviews and not clickthroughs, from last Saturday till now. I'm surprised at that number!

[Guest]

I don't know why but I'm a bit worried for Glasgow next season for the Pro12 - I don't know whether getting to the final is going to go to their heads (in terms of too much pressure) or not.

I can see them fighting for 4th in the Pro12 next year come end of the season BUT actually getting to the knock out stages of the Champions Cup. Would that be seen as an improvement?

Edinburgh I would be disappointed if they didn't reach at least the SF of the Challenge Cup and think they'll be - controversially - in the same glut of teams challenging for 4th in the Pro12. But will miss out.

[madmaccas]

20,000? Really? That's probably 20,000 pageviews and not clickthroughs, from last Saturday till now. I'm surprised at that number!

Apparently it was 5000 live and 20,000 unique video viewers in total.

Not bad for a relatively minor game kicking off at 1:30am. Hopefully it'll encourage them to actually cover rugby a bit more in their rag.

[madmaccas]

Oh and, at risk of kicking off a political debate, Mike Blair and Jim Thompson have revealed they are Naw voters today.

[George Carlin]

I don't know why but I'm a bit worried for Glasgow next season for the Pro12 - I don't know whether getting to the final is going to go to their heads (in terms of too much pressure) or not.

I can see them fighting for 4th in the Pro12 next year come end of the season BUT actually getting to the knock out stages of the Champions Cup. Would that be seen as an improvement?

Edinburgh I would be disappointed if they didn't reach at least the SF of the Challenge Cup and think they'll be - controversially - in the same glut of teams challenging for 4th in the Pro12. But will miss out.

I am also worried about Glasgow - (a) too many key players that we relied upon at the back end of this season are moving on or are injured - Cusiter, Cross, Grant, Cusack, (b) a lot of the youngsters coming through are not as good as some of the old guard who can't have too much more in the tank (Hall, Schlong) and (c) there are some big holes that need to be filled by good signings (as has already been said, we need at least two tight heads, preferably a loosehead too, a blindside, possible a openside and an international class 10).

[funnyExiledScot]

With a "world class" 10 in Finn Russell what do you need an international class 10 for? You also have "Sunday pub match class" Duncan Weir in your ranks. Don't get greedy.

Glasgow will be fine next season - perhaps not a home semi-final but I'd be surprised if Glasgow didn't make the play-offs again. DTH coming back into the backline will be a huge boost, virtually a new signing, and Russell and Bennett should continue to improve (if that's even possible).

The back-up to the pack does need strengthening, but the starting 8 is a very handy unit. Glasgow were pretty hammered by injuries last season so you'd hope luck would turn. Like all sides, some nasty injuries in key positions could see you drop a few places, but few sides if any will beat a full strength Glasgow in Scotstoun.

[George Carlin]

I think that we'll end up like Ulster if we're not careful. First XV looks amazing, but if they have to be replaced by a squad backup can unravel faster than Asbo's string vest. Really don't want to be just 'fine'. I would quite like to do better.

I guess with the World Cup coming up, getting anyone to move anywhere is going to be difficult.

[RDW]

I tweeted Edinburgh asking about new signings, and their response wasn't exactly inspiring:

We have already announced a number of new players to the squad.  Any additions to this will be announced over summer

Other than Heathcoat, they have so far replaced the seasoned internationals that are leaving with a bunch of youngsters and the odd journeyman!

Hope that doesn't give too much of a hint of the calibre of player to come in.

[funnyExiledScot]

I think that we'll end up like Ulster if we're not careful. First XV looks amazing, but if they have to be replaced by a squad backup can unravel faster than Asbo's string vest. Really don't want to be just 'fine'. I would quite like to do better.

I guess with the World Cup coming up, getting anyone to move anywhere is going to be difficult.

Well as an Edinburgh fan I can honestly say that if we do "fine" I'll break out the champagne, put up the bunting and give the house staff two hours off.

[funnyExiledScot]

I tweeted Edinburgh asking about new signings, and their response wasn't exactly inspiring:

We have already announced a number of new players to the squad.  Any additions to this will be announced over summer

Other than Heathcoat, they have so far replaced the seasoned internationals that are leaving with a bunch of youngsters and the odd journeyman!

Hope that doesn't give too much of a hint of the calibre of player to come in.

That's a pretty shirty response. That message reads: wind your neck in you over-demanding fan and how dare you question a transfer policy that has brought you the joys of Ben Atiga, Andries Strauss and Joaquin Dominguez (and that's just the rich talent at 12).

Possibly why they made so much of signing a kid from Strathallan School.

As you say, Dell and Heathcote aside, there's no-one who looks capable of making the XV having been signed for some time.

[George Carlin]

I tweeted Edinburgh asking about new signings, and their response wasn't exactly inspiring:

We have already announced a number of new players to the squad.  Any additions to this will be announced over summer

Other than Heathcoat, they have so far replaced the seasoned internationals that are leaving with a bunch of youngsters and the odd journeyman!

Hope that doesn't give too much of a hint of the calibre of player to come in.

That's a pretty shirty response. That message reads: wind your neck in you over-demanding fan and how dare you question a transfer policy that has brought you the joys of Ben Atiga, Andries Strauss and Joaquin Dominguez (and that's just the rich talent at 12).

Possibly why they made so much of signing a kid from Strathallan School.

As you say, Dell and Heathcote aside, there's no-one who looks capable of making the XV having been signed for some time.

And

PS - Please buy a season ticket. Please. Please.

They really need to change their PR staff.

[madmaccas]

Scott Wight has signed a full time 7's contract. Not a big surprise and the best choice for his career now that Finn Russell has taken the starting berth, with Weir an able replacement.

http://scottishrugby.org/news/14/06/11/scotland-7s-sign-wight-houston-retires

[funnyExiledScot]

Makes sense re: Wight, although with Jackson leaving he'd have only been one injury away from the matchday squad at Glasgow this coming season, assuming they don't sign another fly half.

Farewell to John Houston. Solid player with deceptive pace, who was moved on by Edinburgh to make way for NSQ players who were frankly no better (and much slower).

[RDW]

Surprised Lee Jones - an international class 7s player - hasn't been signed up.

Unless he's got a contract somewhere else?

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