Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread III

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Historical Banter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
 
A. Edinburgh
 
1. Pre-season
 
Fri 30 Aug 2013, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 15 - 5 Newcastle Falcons
 
Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:30
Northampton Saints 24 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby
 
2. 2013/2014 Season - Played
 
Sat 7 Sep, 19:15
Munster Rugby 34 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 13 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Sat 21 Sep, 18:30
Ospreys 44 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 9 - 22 Scarlets
 
Sun 6 Oct, 14:05
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 25 Oct, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 13 Benetton Treviso
 
Fri 1 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 23 Zebre
 
Fri 22 Nov 19:05
Ulster Rugby 41 - 17 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 29 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 43 - 10 Connacht
 
Fri 20 Dec 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby 11 - 6 Leinster
 
Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
 
Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sat 15 Feb 17:00
Connacht Rugby 11 - 7 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sat 22 Feb 14:30
Scarlets 25 - 21 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 28 Feb 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby 31 - 25 Ospreys
 
Fri 21 Mar 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 3 - 9 Ulster Rugby
 
Sat 29 Mar 19:00
Benetton Treviso 20 - 16 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Thu 3 Apr 18:30
Newport Gwent Dragons 19 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 11 Apr 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 22 - 29 Cardiff Blues
 
Sat 19 Apr 15:30
Zebre 26 - 13 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sat 26 Apr 19:05
Glasgow Warriors 37 - 34 Edinburgh Rugby
 
3. 2013/2014 Season - Final Games
 
Sat 3 May 17:00
Edinburgh Rugby v Munster Rugby
Meggetland
BBCALBA/TG4
 
Sat 10 May 18:30
Leinster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby
Royal Dublin Society
 
B. Glasgow
 
1. Pre-season
 
Sat 31 Aug 2013, 15:00
Exeter Chiefs 26 - 29 Glasgow Warriors
 
2. 2013/2014 Season
 
Fri 6 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 22 - 15 Cardiff Blues
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 12 - 6 Leinster Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:30
Zebre 17 - 24 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 5 Oct, 18:30
Scarlets 12 - 17 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 25 Oct, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby
 
Sat 2 Nov, 17:00
Connacht Rugby 12 - 19 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 22 Nov, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 23 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Fri 29 Nov, 19:05
Ospreys 16 - 28 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Dec, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors P - P Benetton Treviso
 
Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
 
Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby
 
Sun 9 Feb 14:00
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 6 Connacht Rugby
 
Sat 15 Feb 18:30
Cardiff Blues 20 - 27 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sun 23 Feb 14:30
Newport Gwent Dragons 24 - 23 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 1 Mar 20:30
Leinster Rugby 28 - 25 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 22 Mar 18:30
Glasgow Warriors 14 - 6 Scarlets
 
Fri 28 Mar 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 11 - 9 Ospreys
 
Fri 4 Apr 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 29 - 10 Benetton Treviso
 
Sat 12 Apr 18:30
Munster Rugby 5 - 22 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 18 Apr 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 27 - 9 Ulster Rugby
 
Sat 26 Apr 19:05
Glasgow Warriors 37 - 34 Edinburgh Rugby
 
3. 2013/2014 Season - Final Games
 
Fri 2 May 20:00
Benetton Treviso v Glasgow Warriors
Stadio Monigo
Mediast/ALBA
 
Sat 10 May 18:30
Glasgow Warriors v Zebre
Scotstoun Stadium
 
[16/17/18 May
PO Semi Final
[tbc] v [tbc]
Venue TBA]
 
[Sat 31 May
PO Final
[tbc] v [tbc]
Venue TBA]
 
***
 
Any and all patter about these teams is welcome.
 
Any jingoism, sledging or graceless kicking of anyone whilst they are up or down will see posts deleted.
 
Be gracious and be constructive.

[George Carlin]

I like Morrison usually and it's a fair enough piece, although small slivers of it read as a series of cheap shots. It's a good point that Glasgow have had continuity in coaching. It's utterly irrelevant that Lineen and Toonie are "local", not that this is a particularly intelligent comment about two men born in Auckland and Galashiels respectively.

I would also think it unlikely that Morrison would suggest to Du Preez's face that he has "faded" in the latter part of the season.

Other problems are not really of Edinburgh's own making and so I am never in favour of hitting an easy, slow moving target. The SRU has fannied around with the new stadium issue for years and the movement of players to Glasgow has clearly been at the SRU's instigation a lot of the time.

It would have been a better piece if similar consideration had been given to solutions for a lot of these problems. It's a piece of p!ss to point out what is wrong, quite another to offer practical solutions that work now rather than commenting about things that are only now clear in retrospect. "Can we ask yet again why Edinburgh City Council/SRU did not spend that little bit extra on Meggetland when the old ground was redeveloped several years back?" Really? How about because there were probably much bigger fish to fry at the time, Iain?

[IanBru]

Terrifying stat for the day:

Willem Nel as played a total 2042 minutes this season, of a possible 2240.

It's certainly impressive for Nel, but it might also indicate that Alan Solomons has lost touch with reality.

[tigertattie]

Terrifying stat for the day:

Willem Nel as played a total 2042 minutes this season, of a possible 2240.

It's certainly impressive for Nel, but it might also indicate that Alan Solomons has lost touch with reality.

"He's still not played enough mins of pro rugby to justify an international call up"

Guess who would say sucha thing!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

He's shy by the odd million or three, I believe

[MacKnocked-on]

Edinburgh have released 9 players including Lee Jones.

[IanBru]

Jonesy must surely be awarded a 7s contract? Unless Glasgow are looking for a light-weight winger, it's pretty clear he's destined for the IRB circuit.

[RDW]

Aye Jones is an International class 7s player so I am fairly sure he'll end up there. Will be ridiculous if he doesn't!

The other 8 players really aren't much of a loss though

Atiga
Basalaia
PJP
Leck
Black
Niven
McAlpine

With the mental Georgian probably being the best of that bunch.

[RDW]

That's only 8 players - apparently Edinburgh can't count!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Have Edinbokke only been playing with 14 players this season?

[RDW]

That's where we've been going wrong!   

[funnyExiledScot]

I don't think Basilia was ever given a fair crack at Edinburgh, and when I saw him play I was always quite impressed with his physicality. I don't see Coman and Leonardi as big improvements personally.

We won't miss the rest of them.

Lee Jones is certainly a 7's player and should join Colin Gregor and his crew. I was at Twickenham on Saturday and Turnbull has lost some pace, so moving Jones full time to 7s makes sense.

Good effort from Edinburgh at the weekend. As RDW says, the summer will be easier now given the narrow defeat. Anothing 50 point walloping would have been depressing. Also pleasing to see Visser on the scoresheet ahead of the summer.

[TJ]

So are the soap dodgers going to do it? Restore a bit of scots pride?

[EST]

Judging from the Edinburgh team on the official site I make that 23 players, including EDP, who have been ditched by Pappy or who have wanted to leave over the course of one season - am i missing any out?:

Atiga
Black
De Luca
Dick
Francis
Hunter
Jones
Laidlaw
Leck
Leonard
Allan
Basailia
Cox
Cringle
Cross
Hislop
Irvine - Hess
McAlpine
Niven
Parker
Rennie
VDW
Walker

Just shows how bloated the squad was, and there could easily be more cut from the existing players, the youth-full Nikki Walker and Alex Lutui spring to mind. Over the course of the season I would have tried to have kept more experienced players: De Luca V Beard, Cross V Berghan citing just two examples; but on the whole, this exercise had to happen.

Lets hope Pappy has 3-4 high quality signings up his sleeve. Bring in Heathcote and Strockosh on top of Bressler and the squad instantly changes in dynamic.

[George Carlin]

Judging from the Edinburgh team on the official site I make that 23 players, including EDP, who have been ditched by Pappy or who have wanted to leave over the course of one season - am i missing any out?:

Atiga
Black
De Luca
Dick
Francis
Hunter
Jones
Laidlaw
Leck
Leonard
Allan
Basailia
Cox
Cringle
Cross
Hislop
Irvine - Hess
McAlpine
Niven
Parker
Rennie
VDW
Walker

Just shows how bloated the squad was, and there could easily be more cut from the existing players, the youth-full Nikki Walker and Alex Lutui spring to mind. Over the course of the season I would have tried to have kept more experienced players: De Luca V Beard, Cross V Berghan citing just two examples;  but on the whole, this exercise had to happen.  

Lets hope Pappy has 3-4 high quality signings up his sleeve. Bring in Heathcote and Strockosh on top of Bressler and the squad instantly changes in dynamic.

Good work, EST. I really wanted to see a full list. I fully expect Nikki Walker to quietly retire over the summer too. One of the biggest disappointments for me this year was the realisation that young Rob McAlpine wasn't injured, he was just given no game time at all. Don't get me wrong, Gilchrist should probably have been first, but I always thought that RMcA would push him hard. Didn't happen. I really hope that he gets a professional contract, because I always thought that he was very good.

[RDW]

Jeezo that's almost half the squad!

We're going to need to sign around 10-15 players at least or else we're going to be well short on numbers.

Unfortunately I can't see many Scotsmen being part of those numbers - there just aren't that many out there.

If I get time I might have a crack at the remaining Edinburgh squad!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Isn't Solomons on record as saying that he's already identified (if not signed?) the players he wants to come in and that announcements will follow shortly?

[RDW]

Yeah - he says the recruitment is pretty much done.  Edinburgh have been good enough to announce the players leaving before all the players coming in, so hopefully we'll get some news in the coming weeks.

Right here's what I think is the remaining squad:

LH - Dickinson, Blaauw, Dell

Hooker - Ford, Hilterbrand, Lutui, McInally, Turner, Cochrane

TH - Nel, Berghan, McQuillan

SR - Gilchrist, Atkins, Ben Toolis, Alex Toolis

6/8 - Denton, Du Preez Coman, Leonardi

7 - Grant, Watson

9 - Hart, S-H-C, Kennedy

10 - Tonks, McLennan   

12/13 - Scott, Strauss, Beard (assuming he's being kept on)

11/14- Visser, Fife (can also play 13 - FES prefers him there), Farndale, Hoyland, Walker (if he isn't leaving, which I hope he is)

15 - Cuthbert, Brown


I have highlighted in green positions of strength, orange if it is not bad, and in red positions of dire need of strengthening. As can be seen there is a lot of red in there!

So that's a squad of 36.  If we can get the squad up to 45 we should be comfortable.


It is ridiculous to think we had a squad of 60 odd players this year!!

[RDW]

Apologies for the colour blind that hasn't come out well - LH, 6/8 and 15 are the only orange positions I have highlighted.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

That's a ridiculous number of hookers?!

[RDW]

It really is. God knows why they signed Cochrane! Lutui is due his bus pass soon but there's no mention of his deal being cut a year short. Maybe they were hoping McInally would sign for Bristol but they didn't want him. Ironically if he hadn't moved to hooker this season he would have got a lot of gametime in the backrow! He would have been better trying to convert to a 7 IMO.

On the hooker front, I found out who the 9th player to leave is - Alun Walker. He just didn't get a mention in the article poor chap!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Shiells rumoured to be on the way out at Kingston Park on the Newcastle Falcons thread

[RDW]

Signing Shiells would go down very well with the fans - young (for a prop), promising SQ prop with a good level of pro experience.

And from the Newcastle thread they seem to rate Shiells highly.

I bet he goes to Glasgow!   

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

 

[tigertattie]

On the hooker front, I found out who the 9th player to leave is - Alun Walker. He just didn't get a mention in the article poor chap!

Alun left last year did he not? Been playing for some wee diddy team in englandshire!

In all honesty, he was never cut out for pro rugby.

[Majestic83]

It really is.  God knows why they signed Cochrane! Lutui is due his bus pass soon but there's no mention of his deal being cut a year short. Maybe they were hoping McInally would sign for Bristol but they didn't want him.  Ironically if he hadn't moved to hooker this season he would have got a lot of gametime in the backrow! He would have been better trying to convert to a 7 IMO.

On the hooker front, I found out who the 9th player to leave is - Alun Walker. He just didn't get a mention in the article poor chap!

Agreed on McInally, think trying to establish himself at 7 would have been the far better option for him and Edinburgh. There are a lot of good young hookers about so the path to international honours is going to be pretty tough for McInally to get too.
He would be well suited for 7.

[Majestic83]

On the hooker front, I found out who the 9th player to leave is - Alun Walker. He just didn't get a mention in the article poor chap!

Alun left last year did he not? Been playing for some wee diddy team in englandshire!

In all honesty, he was never cut out for pro rugby.

Would disagree on Walker, I thought he performed pretty well when he was given the limited chances. Played for Scotland "A" a couple times as well and stepped up against England and looked good. Think it was just before christmas he went down to Nottingham where I hear he has been playing well, would think that is where he will end up next season.

[tigertattie]

when I've seen him play for Edinburgh he's been utterly mullered in the scrum and in the loose he would get himself isolated and turned over often!

[VinceWLB]

Sad to see that Lewis Niven was forced to retire due to injury, looked a decent enough prospect in props terms.
Surely Edinburgh could do worse than bringing in Euan Murray?

Re Strokosch, he wants to stay at Perpignan apparently and lets be honest he is now over the hill and wouldn't improve the back row options at Edinburgh.

[tigertattie]

Lets have a wee look at things here.  Now, this is full of ifs and buts, however, we really need to plan for such things. what happens if the following are stuck off for any reason.

LH - Dickinson (scotland duty), Blaauw, Dell (injured) Hooker - Ford, Hilterbrand, Lutui, McInally, Turner, Cochrane Now we have no loosehead on the bench!

TH - Nel, Berghan, McQuillan (see loosehead)

SR - Gilchrist, Atkins (Scotland duty or injured), Ben Toolis, Alex Toolis (now we have no 2nd row on the bench!

6/8 - Denton, Du Preez Coman, Leonardi (Denton on Scotland duty means Du Preez and Coman statrt at 6 and 8 with only Leonardi to cover!!!)

7 - Grant, Watson (doesnt really matter as pappy doesnt use 7s)

9 - Hart, S-H-C, Kennedy

10 - Tonks, McLennan (Tonks goes on Scotland duty, then we are stuffed)

12/13 - Scott, Strauss, Beard (assuming he's being kept on) If Scott goes on Scotland duty or gets injured, we have no replacement centres. And do we really want our centre pairing to be Strauss and Beard?

11/14- Visser, Fife (can also play 13 - FES prefers him there), Farndale, Hoyland, Walker (if he isn't leaving, which I hope he is)

15 - Cuthbert, Brown (cutting things fine here)

Pappy may have some signings in mind, but by my thinking, we need at least another 9 players in the squad (good ones please)
Are we really going to be able to attrack a better 12/13 than De Luca? Can we say we'll get a better tighthead than Cross?
Still odd that we are letting those two guys leave!!!

[RDW]

The Edinburgh Evening news is claiming that a lot more Edinburgh players will be soon out the door. That would be quite worrying if true given how short we are in some positions, and I'm not sure how accurate it is anyway given that most players left in the squad are still in contract.

In terms of signings, they reiterated the Bresler signing and also said another back row is on his way.

Most interestingly though they said a Scots qualified wing/fullback is being scouted - wonder who that could be?

Please please please let it not be some ITM/Currie Cup journeyman winger.

[IanBru]

I hear Sean Connery still has some pace in those legs.

[George Carlin]

The Edinburgh Evening news is claiming that a lot more Edinburgh players will be soon out the door.  That would be quite worrying if true given how short we are in some positions, and I'm not sure how accurate it is anyway given that most players left in the squad are still in contract.

In terms of signings, they reiterated the Bresler signing and also said another back row is on his way.

Most interestingly though they said a Scots qualified wing/fullback is being scouted - wonder who that could be?

Please please please let it not be some ITM/Currie Cup journeyman winger.

Agreed, I would rather that it was someone organically developed with a bit of promise, like Miles Mantella at London Scottish.

[RDW]

Who was the RL winger that everyone was going on about?

Found this article here, altuough it's not the guy I was thinking of

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/25419347

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Matt Russell

[IanBru]

I'd absolutely love it if Matty Russell switched codes - oodles of talent that kid has.

[RDW]

That's the one.

Doing a bit of Googling though he signed a 2 year deal with Warrington in October 2013.

[tigertattie]

Don't think Matt Russell will ever switch codes!

a SQ wing/fullback!!! Maybe we are getting Maitland off Glasgow as payment for all the players we've sent them?

[Majestic83]

The Edinburgh Evening news is claiming that a lot more Edinburgh players will be soon out the door.  That would be quite worrying if true given how short we are in some positions, and I'm not sure how accurate it is anyway given that most players left in the squad are still in contract.

In terms of signings, they reiterated the Bresler signing and also said another back row is on his way.

Most interestingly though they said a Scots qualified wing/fullback is being scouted - wonder who that could be?

Please please please let it not be some ITM/Currie Cup journeyman winger.

Yep the League player was Matt Russell,only 21 but signed a longish term deal at Warrington. There is also James McManus who plays for Newcastle knights and is one of the top try scorers in the NRL who is from Banff. Think he is out of contract at the end of the NRL season,cracking player and got some engine on him.

There is the Crusaders winger/full back Jonny McNicoll who is scots qualified, he would be a great addition. He is out of contract at the end of the super rugby season but not heard anything about him leaving!
Another who is out of contract is Lachlan Mitchell from the Melbourne Rebels, his mum is scottish and been a few articles in the past about him coming to Scotland to play!

[Majestic83]

The Edinburgh Evening news is claiming that a lot more Edinburgh players will be soon out the door.  That would be quite worrying if true given how short we are in some positions, and I'm not sure how accurate it is anyway given that most players left in the squad are still in contract.

In terms of signings, they reiterated the Bresler signing and also said another back row is on his way.

Most interestingly though they said a Scots qualified wing/fullback is being scouted - wonder who that could be?

Please please please let it not be some ITM/Currie Cup journeyman winger.

Agreed, I would rather that it was someone organically developed with a bit of promise, like Miles Mantella at London Scottish.

Not sure Mantella is Scots qualified is he? Having a quick google search of him it seems he was in the England 7s squad in the build up to the last commonwealth games!

[RDW]

Edinburgh have signed Gala Loosehead Rory Sutherland

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/14/05/14/domestic-form-earns-capital-contract

Anyone know much about him?

Suspect we won't see much of him for a while, then when he starts to show real promise we'll ship him off to Glasgow!

[tigertattie]

Edinburgh have signed Gala Loosehead Rory Sutherland

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/14/05/14/domestic-form-earns-capital-contract

Anyone know much about him?

Suspect we won't see much of him for a while, then when he starts to show real promise we'll ship him off to Glasgow!

stop bloody giving the SRU ideas!!!

[Guest]

Regards 10 at Edinburgh, isn't Dan Parks still up for grabs.   

(Serious question)

[George Carlin]

Regards 10 at Edinburgh, isn't Dan Parks still up for grabs.   

(Serious question)

[tigertattie]

Laugh all you want.

I'd take Parks at edinburgh.

[Majestic83]

Parks is exactly the type of stand off that would suit Solomons game plan. He prefers the tactical kicking stand off to a running one so Parks definitely fits that style. I can't see it happening though. Think it is more likely Parks will move into some form of coaching now.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Tonks must be pencilled in as the future for standoff at Edinbokke, surely? The alternatives are too hideous to even think about

[funnyExiledScot]

Parks is exactly the type of stand off that would suit Solomons game plan. He prefers the tactical kicking stand off to a running one so Parks definitely fits that style. I can't see it happening though. Think it is more likely Parks will move into some form of coaching now.

He should coach his protege at Glasgow, Duncan Weir.

[Majestic83]

Parks is exactly the type of stand off that would suit Solomons game plan. He prefers the tactical kicking stand off to a running one so Parks definitely fits that style. I can't see it happening though. Think it is more likely Parks will move into some form of coaching now.

He should coach his protege at Glasgow, Duncan Weir.

Would be a good idea, not just for Weir but possibly as kicking coach for Scotland. Not been overly impressed with Hodge as kicking coach so could be a good change.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Don't think Matt Russell will ever switch codes!

a SQ wing/fullback!!! Maybe we are getting Maitland off Glasgow as payment for all the players we've sent them?

Edinburgh didn't want him the first time, so they've had their chance with him.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

The Weegies confirm the departures of Scott Wight, Ed Kalman and Finlay Gillies

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