Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Superb by Mourinho. When are Liverpool at their most dangerous? The first thirty minutes of games; that is, generally, when they tear teams apart.

Not allowed to do that today, though, even against a very weakened Chelsea side. Liverpool didn't get a clear chance all game, and one costly, costly error gave Chelsea what they needed.

That and frustration, as Liverpool rapidly ran out of ideas and invention.

Back in City's hands now - another title won on goal difference?

[Marky]

Paddy Power gold again.

https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/460442595512946688/photo/1

[Hammersmith harrier]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1355726/Xavi-interview-Paul-Scholes-best-midfielder-20-years.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7408010.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1392858/Paul-Scholes-rated-greats.html

I wasn't disputing that people have also praised Paul Scholes, I was disputing the fact that you said nobody outside of England praised Gerrard in the same way, which I showed you just a snippet of the people that have.

The difference is you have Rossi and Pele rating Gerrard then you have Davids, Zidane, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Messi, Figo, Henry, Socrates, Shevchenko, Vieira rating Scholes, the difference in how they are spoken about is quite vast.

You know that trophy that Gerrard let slip away today, Scholes has won that 11 times.

[Crimey]

It isn't just the goals, it is his overall performances.

Sturridge on the other hand has had great games against the top teams, but Suarez? None-existant.

A team that puts 10 men behind the ball don't score. Chelsea beat you 2-0 today. And to think that Hazard, Oscar, Cahill, Cech, & Terry didn't start today.

Suarez has had plenty of good games against top teams and crucially he will often get important goals as well. It's not the quantity that is important.

[Marky]

Using trophies won to argue one player is better than the other is irrelevant since Scholes played in far better squads and with a better manager than Gerrard did.

Maybe Gerrard should have had more ambition.

[mystiroakey]

Gerrards individual performance in the Cl final eclipses any single Scholes game.

However I am a huge fan of Scholes. For me England's best midfielder in recent times. That is why he wound me up so much giving up on England.

[Crimey]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1355726/Xavi-interview-Paul-Scholes-best-midfielder-20-years.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7408010.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1392858/Paul-Scholes-rated-greats.html

I wasn't disputing that people have also praised Paul Scholes, I was disputing the fact that you said nobody outside of England praised Gerrard in the same way, which I showed you just a snippet of the people that have.

The difference is you have Rossi and Pele rating Gerrard then you have Davids, Zidane, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Messi, Figo, Henry, Socrates, Shevchenko, Vieira rating Scholes, the difference in how they are spoken about is quite vast.

You know that trophy that Gerrard let slip away today, Scholes has won that 11 times.

I gave you a few examples. Scholes has recently retired, obviously there will be more examples to find of people praising him, because lots of players are asked what they think when a player retires.

Scholes played for Manchester United across their most dominant period, in which time he was arguably never really their star man. Gerrard has played in several weak teams for Liverpool in one of their poorest ever periods and has been the constant star man, scoring in every important final you can play in, dragging a team to trophies. 

Scholes was a very good cog in a fantastic team, Gerrard was the entire engine of a rubbish one. It is very hard to compare them based on medals, and is useless to do so. I think if you swap them around, Manchester United's success would have been identical, Liverpool's? No way.

[Hammersmith harrier]

They weren't asked when he retired Crimey that was when he was still playing against them all.

Gerrard stood out for Liverpool because your team was crap whereas Scholes stood out in a team full of world class players.

[GSC]

All these players never voted Scholes for the Balloon Door

[kingraf]

Look - One player was voted #2 player in the world in 2005, England player of 2004... The other still plays for England... and didn't retire when he was put in the wing. As has been previously stated, Scholes didnt exactly look like Superman in a three Lions shirt in midfield in any case.

[Crimey]

They weren't asked when he retired Crimey that was when he was still playing against them all.

Gerrard stood out for Liverpool because your team was crap whereas Scholes stood out in a team full of world class players.

Did he stand out? Scholes was never the star of the Manchester United side. Very much revisionist history there. A fantastic player, no doubt, but I do think in the last few years he has been slowly more and more overrated. The same happens to most players though to be fair.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Crimey, does this website have a "toys thrown out of the pram" emoticon?

Just wondering.

This is worse than those kids who stropped when The Streak ended...  

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Incredible goal

[kingraf]

Gerrard, like Liverpool had a good six minutes in Istanbul, and an awful first half. Think Scholes has had better matches.

[Guest]

Look - One player was voted #2 player in the world in 2005, England player of 2004... The other still plays for England... and didn't retire when he was put in the wing. As has been previously stated, Scholes didnt exactly look like Superman in a three Lions shirt in midfield in any case.

He was outstanding between 1997-2002 for England.

A magnificent player and technically the best English midfielder I've personally seen play the game. Loved Scholes. Proper Player.

[Hero]

Oh and 0-2 to City btw

[Guest]

Incredible goal

A bit good this fella.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yaya back and firing, Aguero back too

City slipping under the radar are gonna win this and be in great position

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Scholes > Gerrard > Lampard.

Its a shame the 4-2-3-1 system has come to the fore so recently. We'd have had a trio in midfield that could have worked so nicely.

[Duty281]

One down, three to go.

[AberdeenSteve]

It isn't just the goals, it is his overall performances.

Sturridge on the other hand has had great games against the top teams, but Suarez? None-existant.

A team that puts 10 men behind the ball don't score. Chelsea beat you 2-0 today. And to think that Hazard, Oscar, Cahill, Cech, & Terry didn't start today.

Suarez has had plenty of good games against top teams and crucially he will often get important goals as well. It's not the quantity that is important.

Fair point. I just don't rate him as highly as some like Aguero whose stats against the top teams are:

Arsenal - 2
Chelsea - 4
Manchester United - 5
Liverpool - 2
Tottenham - 6

Regardless though, he'll be remembered as the racist cannibal.

[Hero]

City have gone to faves for the title now with the bookies.

[AberdeenSteve]

It isn't just the goals, it is his overall performances.

Sturridge on the other hand has had great games against the top teams, but Suarez? None-existant.

A team that puts 10 men behind the ball don't score. Chelsea beat you 2-0 today. And to think that Hazard, Oscar, Cahill, Cech, & Terry didn't start today.

Suarez has had plenty of good games against top teams and crucially he will often get important goals as well. It's not the quantity that is important.

Fair point. I just don't rate him as highly as some like Aguero whose stats against the top teams are:

Arsenal - 2
Chelsea - 4
Manchester United - 5
Liverpool - 2
Tottenham - 6

This with less goals scored too.

Regardless though, he'll be remembered as the racist cannibal.

[Crimey]

[Rodgers is asked whether it was down to Mourinho.] No I don't think it's a tactic to have players behind the ball - anyone can do that. 

Exactly.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

City have gone to faves for the title now with the bookies.

Thats a big call. Their games are definitely harder.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

[Rodgers is asked whether it was down to Mourinho.] No I don't think it's a tactic to have players behind the ball - anyone can do that. 

Exactly.

Another day where you should keep talking about other people's lack of class outside Anfield.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

[Rodgers is asked whether it was down to Mourinho.] No I don't think it's a tactic to have players behind the ball - anyone can do that. 

Exactly.

Oh the bitterness is off the scales

[Crimey]

Crystal Palace are not the team I would want to be facing after such a demoralising result. Nerves finally got the better of the team and now confidence will be shot, need Suarez to get back on form for these last two games.

[GSC]

Crimey go log off the Internet. You'll only say things you'll regret later

[mystiroakey]

This is gonna hurt
 Hopefully we can shut them out second half.


Come on palace..

[Duty281]

[Rodgers is asked whether it was down to Mourinho.] No I don't think it's a tactic to have players behind the ball - anyone can do that. 

Exactly.

Were Liverpool just plain awful then?

[Crimey]

It's a legitimate opinion, it's hardly different to your opinions on your two's opinions on your own manager's football. It is possible to not be happy with something legitimately not just because of an immediate reaction. I have been saying the exact same things all year...

[Guest]

Crimey go log off the Internet. You'll only say things you'll regret later

A bit dramatic I must say.

[AberdeenSteve]

When did Liverpool get this sense of 'we should be winning every week so when we lose we will spit our dummy out'?

When was the last time you were in this position? And people wonder nobody gives them respect. Ridiculous.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Rodgers

Chelsea tactics "have prepared us for Crystal Palace....long balls, long throw ins, players behind the ball"

defensive football "not difficult to coach", the "polar opposite of what we do".

You stay classy

[Crimey]

[Rodgers is asked whether it was down to Mourinho.] No I don't think it's a tactic to have players behind the ball - anyone can do that. 

Exactly.

Were Liverpool just plain awful then?

I don't think Liverpool were at their best, nerves definitely got the better of the team, particularly when the early goal didn't come. Suarez is off-colour. But at the same time, Chelsea didn't come to win the game, they started time-wasting within 90 seconds and without the Gerrard slip, I am not sure where their goal would have come from, because they certainly weren't looking for one. Even on the break there wasn't the urgency you'd expect.

[AberdeenSteve]

Rodgers

Chelsea tactics "have prepared us for Crystal Palace....long balls, long throw ins, players behind the ball"

defensive football "not difficult to coach", the "polar opposite of what we do".

You stay classy

I used to like Rodgers. Wow, has that opinion changed after reading that. No class. Accept the defeat, move on. Mourinho will be loving this.

[Duty281]

When did Liverpool get this sense of 'we should be winning every week so when we lose we will spit our dummy out'?

When was the last time you were in this position? And people wonder nobody gives them respect. Ridiculous.

The only saving grace is that Kenny Dalglish, the most bitter man in all of football, is no longer Liverpool manager.

[GSC]

In terms of looking like a baby

[Crimey]

When did Liverpool get this sense of 'we should be winning every week so when we lose we will spit our dummy out'?

When was the last time you were in this position? And people wonder nobody gives them respect. Ridiculous.

At no point have I said anything akin to what you're accusing me of. I said before the game I would have been happy with a draw. I'm not even arguing that Chelsea deserved to win. Just that I don't consider putting ten men behind the ball a tactical masterclass.

[Crimey]

Rodgers

Chelsea tactics "have prepared us for Crystal Palace....long balls, long throw ins, players behind the ball"

defensive football "not difficult to coach", the "polar opposite of what we do".

You stay classy

Not good that, clearly rattled and annoyed. Perhaps should have considered not speaking to the media.

[kingraf]

Their goal could have come from that penalty which wasn't called.

[AberdeenSteve]

When did Liverpool get this sense of 'we should be winning every week so when we lose we will spit our dummy out'?

When was the last time you were in this position? And people wonder nobody gives them respect. Ridiculous.

The only saving grace is that Kenny Dalglish, the most bitter man in all of football, is no longer Liverpool manager.

The nightmares    

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Their goal could have come from that penalty which wasn't called.

Mignolet made some good saves too. Kalas missed a golden chance from a corner

[DP]

Crimey, to call Scholes 'a cog' is an insult to the man.

For me, he was the heartbeat of United's midfield for the dominant period, a constant in a team of characters. You're never going to stand out when you're in a team with likes of Beckham, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney etc. because they're the ones that command the headlines and the attention.

Scholes did the business without having to be an extrovert.

[GSC]

Judging off today defensive football is hard to coach for Rodgers.

Cheers for reminding me why he's so dislikable

[Hammersmith harrier]

Doesn't say a lot for Rodgers tactics that he couldn't set his team up to overcome something so basic.

[Crimey]

Crimey, to call Scholes 'a cog' is an insult to the man.

For me, he was the heartbeat of United's midfield for the dominant period, a constant in a team of characters. You're never going to stand out when you're in a team with likes of Beckham, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney etc. because they're the ones that command the headlines and the attention.

Scholes did the business without having to be an extrovert.

I just find it strange that this was very rarely said until the tail end of his career.

I also said this in the context of a comparison to Gerrard's role in the Liverpool sides he has been a part of. I think Gerrard in Scholes' place would equal the same result, but Scholes for Gerrard wouldn't. I think that is fair enough. Doesn't diminish the accomplishments of either. Neither have had the opportunity to showcase their skills in the environment of the other so it is obviously speculation anyway.

[CFCNick]

It's one thing to put ten men behind the ball. You have to keep shape and move as one. Most back fours can't love as one so for 6-9 players to do that and stay as a solid unit for that long is a master class.

Say it's parking the bus, call it anti football. You lost. Get over it.

[AberdeenSteve]

When did Liverpool get this sense of 'we should be winning every week so when we lose we will spit our dummy out'?

When was the last time you were in this position? And people wonder nobody gives them respect. Ridiculous.

At no point have I said anything akin to what you're accusing me of. I said before the game I would have been happy with a draw. I'm not even arguing that Chelsea deserved to win. Just that I don't consider putting ten men behind the ball a tactical masterclass.

Crimey, I am not wanting this to end in a back and forth argument but if you were to read your comments in the past hour or so the proverbial dummy was spat out in argument to Mourinho's tactics. And now I can add the poor class that was just shown by your manager that epitomises my statement.

[Hero]

I think tbh Crimey is holding his own and as a fan of a club that hasn't won the title for so long and looked so odds on faves prior to this game I'd have expect a lot more emotion in his posts. A lot of fans would shut up, shrink away and lick their wounds whilst everyone else gloated so kudos to Crimey for standing tall.

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