MEP Elections

First topic message reminder :

It's the European Parliament Elections on May 22nd, with UKIP hoping to gain the most seats after second place last time out, with Labour and Liberal Democrats looking to hold onto their seats.

But, does anyone care? Only one in three people voted in the last elections, but there seems to be more of a media interest, especially with the TV debates between Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg, which if you haven't seen are worth a watch. Could it be argued that by Labour and Conservatives not showing to the debates, that UKIP and LibDem will gain?

It seems that this year, there will be a higher turnout but will it be a significant amount? UKIP are certainly a more real opposition and will surely gain seats, with the opinion polls showing UKIP are likely to win.

rodders wrote:

skyeman wrote:

rodders wrote:

skyeman wrote:
Not very good on facts are you Rodders!

I don't know why don't you try hitting me with some ... like for a start how a referendum and subsequent withdrawal from the EU is going benefit the UK and what policies UKIP have other than capping EU immigration that would counter accusations of being a racist and xenophobic party?

UKIP will never get power, so polices are an irrelevance.

They want the other paties to give the majority of the electorate what they want.  EU REFERENDUM.

So you think a parties policies are irrelevant when it comes to voting for them?

You'd vote for a party to represent your interests in Europe without actually knowing what issues they plan to raise if they get seats?

If the majority of the electorate want a referendum then they will vote for a party in the next general election which aims to deliver one as part of their manifesto.

This is a European election - electing UK representatives to represent Britain in Europe, and nothing whatsoever to do with holding a referendum on Europe.  

As stated, they will never get power, even if they got 70 MEP's they can change nothing in Brussels.

But what they will eventually acheive from a Government by doing so is a referendum

skyeman wrote:Thanks Derbymanc. From the Lib Dems:




Bringing back control to the immigration system by introducing exit checks, so the Government can keep track of who is leaving the country and identify people who are overstaying their visa.

We are rebuilding trust in the system. We have helped cut immigration by a third and ensured that highly-skilled immigrants can help us build a stronger economy.

Ha bloody ha.

You don't approve of exit checks or highly skilled immigrants?

skyeman wrote:As stated, they will never get power, even if they got 70 MEP's they can change nothing in Brussels.

But what they will eventually acheive from a Government by doing so is a referendum

And how exactly will they achieve a referendum without getting power? By sticking up posters and heckling during prime ministers question time?

rodders wrote:

skyeman wrote:Thanks Derbymanc. From the Lib Dems:




Bringing back control to the immigration system by introducing exit checks, so the Government can keep track of who is leaving the country and identify people who are overstaying their visa.

We are rebuilding trust in the system. We have helped cut immigration by a third and ensured that highly-skilled immigrants can help us build a stronger economy.

Ha bloody ha.

You don't approve of exit checks or highly skilled immigrants?

Highly skilled immigrants to help build a better future is the clue. Same words that Farage has been saying for weeks.

Bringing back controlled immigration is another i believe.

Are they racists?

rodders wrote:

skyeman wrote:As stated, they will never get power, even if they got 70 MEP's they can change nothing in Brussels.

But what they will eventually acheive from a Government by doing so is a referendum

And how exactly will they achieve a referendum without getting power? By sticking up posters and heckling during prime ministers question time?

All about pressure and then even more pressure.

Bring back controlled immigration? Since when did we have uncontrolled immigration then?

We have free movement of goods and services amongst EU member states but as far as I am aware we have passport and immigration controls do we not?

Are UKIP going to negotiate the safe return of all the British ex pats from Spain, Portugal and Greece so we can stick them in old peoples homes too?

Do you think those countries want to lose those wealthy ex pats, they emigrated with the pounds and are welcomed. ||They help not burden their economies.

It is a nonsence responce.

Much like Australia, even Brits emmigrating there have to be skilled or have at least 50k in the bank.

Are they racists or protecting their country.

skyeman wrote:Do you think those countries want to lose those wealthy ex pats, they  emigrated with the pounds and are welcomed. ||They help not burden their economies.

It is a nonsence responce.

I don't know shouldn't they have referendum too? Free movement of persons should be one way then within the EU?

You'd be happy enough for a load of post working age EU immigrants to come to all our coastal towns and buy up the property as long as they were spending a bit of cash down the local in the process? Presumably they wouldn't burden the health care system of course because they'd be paying their own way.

Just picked myself up from the floor after reading Rodders assertion that UKIP are like the Taliban.

I'm still waiting to see which policies are racist as well.

And Rodders - any one who resides in an EU member state (I have to check, I don't think it's all, but it's certainly most) is free to come and go to Britain as they please, regardless of employment status/family circumstances/education/qualifications etc. which is why there are around a million Polish people living in the UK.

Do you call that controlled?

skyeman wrote:Much like Australia, even Brits emmigrating there have to be skilled or have at least 50k in the bank.

Are they racists or protecting their country.

Australia isn't in the EU. The free movement of people among EU member states allows brits to migrate and work throughout Europe - the same freedoms that allow immigrants from other member states to move here. The ones UKIP want to revoke, seemingly oblivious to the fact that it's a two way street.

Duty281 wrote:
And Rodders - any one who resides in an EU member state (I have to check, I don't think it's all, but it's certainly most) is free to come and go to Britain as they please, regardless of employment status/family circumstances/education/qualifications etc. which is why there are around a million Polish people living in the UK.

Do you call that controlled?

Yes because its restricted to member states. Member states are exactly that, controlled and have to meet certain criteria to achieve membership which is approved by existing member states, Britain being one.

rodders wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
And Rodders - any one who resides in an EU member state (I have to check, I don't think it's all, but it's certainly most) is free to come and go to Britain as they please, regardless of employment status/family circumstances/education/qualifications etc. which is why there are around a million Polish people living in the UK.

Do you call that controlled?

Yes because its restricted to member states. Member states are exactly that, controlled and have to meet certain criteria to achieve membership which is approved by existing member states, Britain being one.

That does not make it controlled because you have free movement of people.

The United Kingdom can not do anything about immigrants arriving from the likes of Poland or Bulgaria, regardless of their employment status or qualifications. There is no control.

Granted, a free movement of people may work (though I'd still hold doubts) if it was purely between countries who are on similar economic footings; not, as is the case with the UK/Romania, where the former's minimum wage is around eight times higher than the latter.

Now, these racist policies - what are they?

Then your completely bonkers, it's not nearly controlled immigration. It's an open door policy that allows anyone from any member state to go to another. Any country should have controlled immigration and if that means are petty criminals etc can't go there, then so be it, they're our problem we have to deal with them.

What UKIP policies do you believe in that makes you want to vote for them?

rodders wrote:

skyeman wrote:Much like Australia, even Brits emmigrating there have to be skilled or have at least 50k in the bank.

Are they racists or protecting their country.

Australia isn't in the EU. The free movement of people among EU member states allows brits to migrate and work throughout Europe - the same freedoms that allow immigrants from other member states to move here. The ones UKIP want to revoke, seemingly oblivious to the fact that it's a two way street.

That deserves the "no Poopie Sherlock" but the principle is the same. Australia want to protect themselves. UKIP want the same or at least the choice to be given to the GBP.

It is not the same, can you see 2000 low earning no skilled Brummies packing up and heading off to Romania and getting benefits from Bucharest?

People who emmigrate from the UK are normally retiring with their hard earned cash or go to work in the EU with a skilled trade.

Duty281 wrote:Granted, a free movement of people may work (though I'd still hold doubts) if it was purely between countries who are on similar economic footings; not, as is the case with the UK/Romania, where the former's minimum wage is around eight times higher than the latter.

So you are fine with an open door policy with countries with equal or greater economic status is what you are saying?

skyeman wrote:
People who emmigrate from the UK are normally retiring with their hard earned cash or go to work in the EU with a skilled trade.

Any stats on that - amazing that considering we have apparently no immigration control or exit checks we know who is going out and not who's coming in?

All Those British waitresses and bartenders working in those bars in Niece, Marseille and Benidorm must be higher skilled than their European counterparts eh?

rodders wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Granted, a free movement of people may work (though I'd still hold doubts) if it was purely between countries who are on similar economic footings; not, as is the case with the UK/Romania, where the former's minimum wage is around eight times higher than the latter.

So you are fine with an open door policy with countries with equal or greater economic status is what you are saying?

I'd still have my doubts. In such an event, there should be some checks - it shouldn't be a free-for-all.

And what we have now is an open door policy (not controlled) with many countries of a greatly inferior economic standing to our own; it just doesn't work.

Oh and UKIP's racist policies are...? Still waiting.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:What UKIP policies do you believe in that makes you want to vote for them?

Getting the referendum which the majority want (even those who may vote NO} Not a policy, but the main goal


That is my main reason. A chance to govern ourselves once again and other than that: The 6.4 billion per year we give each year, the
inefficient policies. A large percentage of EU spending goes on the Common Agricultural Policy, for years this as distorted agricultural markets by placing minimum prices on food. This lead to higher prices for consumers and encouraging over-supply, then free movement of labour has caused problems of overcrowding in UK cities. The UK’s population is set to rise to 70 million over next decade, partly due to immigration. This has pushed up house prices and led to and led to house shortages, the effect on the NHS. Got plenty more.

The other thing is the corrupt and wasteful suits in Brussels who continually give us ridculous demands and laws. We have no say!

They now want to order us to give prisoners the right to vote and then don't get me started on some of the stupid human rights laws. These and plenty of others should {by many} be decided by a British goverment.

rodders wrote:

skyeman wrote:
People who emmigrate from the UK are normally retiring with their hard earned cash or go to work in the EU with a skilled trade.

Any stats on that - amazing that considering we have apparently no immigration control or exit checks we know who is going out and not who's coming in?

All Those British waitresses and bartenders working in those bars in Niece, Marseille and Benidorm must be higher skilled than their European counterparts eh?  

Common sense, i would have thought.

Don't forget the backpackers who work abroad, totally different reasons and is a working holiday with sunshine  

Champagne_Socialist wrote:What UKIP policies do you believe in that makes you want to vote for them?

I'll tell you why I won't vote for UKIP.

I like the EU, I like the free market. I think this country is massively enriched culturally and economically by being and EU member,

It makes it cheaper and easier to import quality goods and services - food produce from France, Greece, Spain - German cars.

The free movement of people allows young Britains to go abroad and travel and work - it allows ex pats to gain employment in rich member states like Holland and Germany, our elderly to retire to sunnier climates.

It allows high skilled workers to come here and plug skills gaps - Drs, Dentists, engineers. Semi skilled and unskilled workers have covered for the fact we have a huge problem with an aging population and keeps wages competitive. It allows access to health care in fellow member states when abroad.

It attracts foreign direct investment by US and Chinese firms who want to trade in the single market and be based in an English speaking member state.

The much maligned court of human rights protects people from persecution and discrimination. PEACE funding over 150 million has changed the face of Northern Ireland.

Its not perfect but it would be a huge mistake to leave, or to hold a referendum with so much misinformation being circulated by the euro sceptics who have their own narrow agenda.

Rather amusing that you mention "misinformation", Rodders.

Some salt with my irony please, waiter.

Duty281 wrote:Rather amusing that you mention "misinformation", Rodders.

Some salt with my irony please, waiter.

Would that be a Polish waiter by any chance....  

rodders wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Rather amusing that you mention "misinformation", Rodders.

Some salt with my irony please, waiter.

Would that be a Polish waiter by any chance....  

Still waiting to hear about UKIP's racist policies, Rodders. Or did you make that up?

I'd have though discriminating against EU immigrants on the grounds of nationality - i.e. singling out Romanians and Poles might have a tinge of racism about it.... or maybe that's just xenophobia?

Which policy is this, out of interest? Do you have a quote or a link?

Polish is the second most used language in England. The teaching of French in our schools must be poor  

This is a wind up right? Your defending and supporting a party and you haven't looked at what their policies are?

Maybe its not just prisoners who shouldn't be allowed to vote....

Are you referring to the policy of leaving the EU and having controlled immigration?

Not sure how this falls under the guise of racism or xenophobia, myself.

And it's "you're", by the way, as in "you are".

rodders wrote:This is a wind up right? Your defending and supporting a party and you haven't looked at what their policies are?

Maybe its not just prisoners who shouldn't be allowed to vote....

Of course i have. I have looked at all parties polices. What i said was "they are an irrelevance in regards to what the main goal is" they will never get power.

Maybe you should take more note.

Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Anyways, i am off to our very nice Polish club up here. TTFN Gents.  

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Age, Truss, look at my age!

And rather undecided on who I'll vote for next year.

Sorry Mate thought you were older..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Just caught this. already said Truss, not in the GE. SNP voter.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Sorry Mate thought you were older..

I'm still a stroppy, hormonal teenager for at least another fifteen months!

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Just caught this. already said Truss, not in the GE. SNP voter.

Big year for you then with the independence Vote..........  

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Just caught this. already said Truss, not in the GE. SNP voter.

Big year for you then with the independence Vote..........  

   

Yeah one day i could be living in a country who is in the EU, whilst England maybe not. The irony!

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Just caught this. already said Truss, not in the GE. SNP voter.

Big year for you then with the independence Vote..........  

   

Yeah one day i could be living in a country who is in the EU, whilst England maybe not. The irony!

Interesting you vote SNP because they are strongly in favour of the EU and they are trying very hard to get an independent Scotland to be an EU member state.

Voting UKIP at one election and SNP att another is an oxymoron as one wants to leave the EU whilst the other wants to join it.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Just caught this. already said Truss, not in the GE. SNP voter.

Big year for you then with the independence Vote..........  

   

Yeah one day i could be living in a country who is in the EU, whilst England maybe not. The irony!

Interesting you vote SNP because they are strongly in favour of the EU and they are trying very hard to get an independent Scotland to be an EU member state.

Voting UKIP at one election and SNP att another is an oxymoron as one wants to leave the EU whilst the other wants to join it.

Not really an oxymoron, conflicted it could appear.  My ideal scenario would have to be an Independant Scotland and also then Scotland and the then UK England, NI and Wales out of the EU too.

A NO vote though could be the best chance of Scotland leaving the EU for the Eurosceptics in Scotland, because as you say most of the party {my one big issue}are pro EU, but i like most of their other polices. The chance of gaining Independance does not happen very often, so i still am hoping for a YES. And then try to get out or the EU collapses.

A UKIP vote really would be pointless up here in an GE where Charles Kennedy seems like god, {don't think he will get over 50% next year though}   and of course if Scotland get the YES, there will be no Scottish Westminster MP's anyway.

Honest Politician 

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Just caught this. already said Truss, not in the GE. SNP voter.

Big year for you then with the independence Vote..........  

   

Yeah one day i could be living in a country who is in the EU, whilst England maybe not. The irony!

Interesting you vote SNP because they are strongly in favour of the EU and they are trying very hard to get an independent Scotland to be an EU member state.

Voting UKIP at one election and SNP att another is an oxymoron as one wants to leave the EU whilst the other wants to join it.

Not really an oxymoron, conflicted it could appear.  My ideal scenario would have to be an Independant Scotland and also then Scotland and the then UK England, NI and Wales out of the EU too.

A NO vote though could the best chance of Scotland leaving the EU for the Eurosceptics in Scotland, because as you say most of the party {my one big issue}are pro EU, but i like most of their other polices. The chance of gaining Independance does not happen very often, so i still am hoping for a YES. And then try to get out or the EU collapses.

A UKIP vote really would be pointless up here in an GE where Charles Kennedy seems like god, {don't think he will get over 50% next year though}   and of course if Scotland get the YES, there will be no Scottish Westminster MP's.

Honest Politician 

I just don't get how you are voting for a 1 policy party, UKIP, whose only real policy is to leave the EU and then you are also voting for the SNP who are fighting very hard for an independent scotland to be accepted as a member state of the EU.

I don't think you really know what you want.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Just caught this. already said Truss, not in the GE. SNP voter.

Big year for you then with the independence Vote..........  

   

Yeah one day i could be living in a country who is in the EU, whilst England maybe not. The irony!

Interesting you vote SNP because they are strongly in favour of the EU and they are trying very hard to get an independent Scotland to be an EU member state.

Voting UKIP at one election and SNP att another is an oxymoron as one wants to leave the EU whilst the other wants to join it.

Not really an oxymoron, conflicted it could appear.  My ideal scenario would have to be an Independant Scotland and also then Scotland and the then UK England, NI and Wales out of the EU too.

A NO vote though could the best chance of Scotland leaving the EU for the Eurosceptics in Scotland, because as you say most of the party {my one big issue}are pro EU, but i like most of their other polices. The chance of gaining Independance does not happen very often, so i still am hoping for a YES. And then try to get out or the EU collapses.

A UKIP vote really would be pointless up here in an GE where Charles Kennedy seems like god, {don't think he will get over 50% next year though}   and of course if Scotland get the YES, there will be no Scottish Westminster MP's.

Honest Politician 

I just don't get how you are voting for a 1 policy party, UKIP, whose only real policy is to leave the EU and then you are also voting for the SNP who are fighting very hard for an independent scotland to be accepted as a member state of the EU.

I don't think you really know what you want.

I want an end to the EU.

Most of the Euro votes from UKIP will be from LibLabCon supporters who want a referendum but will then go back to their pro EU parties for the GE.

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

skyeman wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Duty and Skyeman.....

Did you ever vote Conservative before UKIP..

Will you vote for UKIP in 2015 GE...

Just interested to know....

Just caught this. already said Truss, not in the GE. SNP voter.

Big year for you then with the independence Vote..........  

   

Yeah one day i could be living in a country who is in the EU, whilst England maybe not. The irony!

Interesting you vote SNP because they are strongly in favour of the EU and they are trying very hard to get an independent Scotland to be an EU member state.

Voting UKIP at one election and SNP att another is an oxymoron as one wants to leave the EU whilst the other wants to join it.

Not really an oxymoron, conflicted it could appear.  My ideal scenario would have to be an Independant Scotland and also then Scotland and the then UK England, NI and Wales out of the EU too.

A NO vote though could the best chance of Scotland leaving the EU for the Eurosceptics in Scotland, because as you say most of the party {my one big issue}are pro EU, but i like most of their other polices. The chance of gaining Independance does not happen very often, so i still am hoping for a YES. And then try to get out or the EU collapses.

A UKIP vote really would be pointless up here in an GE where Charles Kennedy seems like god, {don't think he will get over 50% next year though}   and of course if Scotland get the YES, there will be no Scottish Westminster MP's.

Honest Politician 

I just don't get how you are voting for a 1 policy party, UKIP, whose only real policy is to leave the EU and then you are also voting for the SNP who are fighting very hard for an independent scotland to be accepted as a member state of the EU.

I don't think you really know what you want.

I want an end to the EU.

Most of the Euro votes from UKIP will be from LibLabCon supporters who want a referendum but will then go back to their pro EU parties for the GE.

If you want an end to the EU why are you voting SNP? They are practically begging to be accepted into the EU...

Already explained why, the voting for UKIP in the Euros is the protest. In a GE {YES/NO relevant} it would be POINTLESS up here and i still like the SNP's other policies. Things can change afterwards.

skyeman wrote:Already explained why, the voting for UKIP in the Euros is the protest. In a GE it would be POINTLESS up here and i still like the SNP's other policies. Things can change afterwards.

And you might get lucky as well, because if Scotland do achieve independence it's probable that they will be moved to the back of the queue for joining the EU.

By the time Scotland get to the front of the queue, the whole sorry, undemocratic shambles that is the European Union may have collapsed, meaning Scotland get true independence - free of the United Kingdom and free of the EU.

It would be a nice dream.

skyeman wrote:Already explained why, the voting for UKIP in the Euros is the protest. In a GE it would be POINTLESS up here and i still like the SNP's other policies. Things can change afterwards.

Seems pointless, you are voting for 1 party because they want to leave the EU and yet you are voting for another party who want to remain in the EU. If the SNP win independence for Scotland they will seek to join the EU.

You voting for the SNP will result in Sotland being a part of the EU because SNP winning elections and winning the referendum will mean they become independent from the UK and thus UKIP will have no say what happens in Scotland and thus the SNP's policy of joining the EU will be unopposed by any political party.

I just find it rather amusing you are so against the EU but you are voting for a party who are massively in favour of the EU and then you are demanding a referendum    How can you demand a referendum on the EU when youa re voting for a party who are fighting to join the EU?

Duty281 wrote:

skyeman wrote:Already explained why, the voting for UKIP in the Euros is the protest. In a GE it would be POINTLESS up here and i still like the SNP's other policies. Things can change afterwards.

And you might get lucky as well, because if Scotland do achieve independence it's probable that they will be moved to the back of the queue for joining the EU.

By the time Scotland get to the front of the queue, the whole sorry, undemocratic shambles that is the European Union may have collapsed, meaning Scotland get true independence - free of the United Kingdom and free of the EU.

It would be a nice dream.

Oh yes  

Would i then be classed as an ex pat  

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:Already explained why, the voting for UKIP in the Euros is the protest. In a GE it would be POINTLESS up here and i still like the SNP's other policies. Things can change afterwards.

Seems pointless, you are voting for 1 party because they want to leave the EU and yet you are voting for another party who want to remain in the EU. If the SNP win independence for Scotland they will seek to join the EU.

You voting for the SNP will result in Sotland being a part of the EU because SNP winning elections and winning the referendum will mean they become independent from the UK and thus UKIP will have no say what happens in Scotland and thus the SNP's policy of joining the EU will be unopposed by any political party.

I just find it rather amusing you are so against the EU but you are voting for a party who are massively in favour of the EU and then you are demanding a referendum    How can you demand a referendum on the EU when youa re voting for a party who are fighting to join the EU?

If there is a YES vote it won't matter who you vote for up here SNP, LibLabCon they would all want the same.

The same way that the LibLabCon supporters who want out of the EU who will protest to their leaders by voting UKIP at the Euros but then return for the GE. Even though their leaders are pro EU. Democracy in action.