MEP Elections

First topic message reminder :

It's the European Parliament Elections on May 22nd, with UKIP hoping to gain the most seats after second place last time out, with Labour and Liberal Democrats looking to hold onto their seats.

But, does anyone care? Only one in three people voted in the last elections, but there seems to be more of a media interest, especially with the TV debates between Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg, which if you haven't seen are worth a watch. Could it be argued that by Labour and Conservatives not showing to the debates, that UKIP and LibDem will gain?

It seems that this year, there will be a higher turnout but will it be a significant amount? UKIP are certainly a more real opposition and will surely gain seats, with the opinion polls showing UKIP are likely to win.

Should add that the Greens do better East of the Bann rather than the West. The "neutral" parties are practically non existant in seat terms in the west.

Interesting that the PUP are doing better than expected. By product of the flag protests I'd say.

Not a bad result for Labour 200 + seats and basically robbed of more by UKIP...

Thing is polls show that the Labour support that's gone to UKIP is softer than the Tory support that's gone there..

All to play for..

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Young Independence, the youth wing of UKIP, has 2,000 members and 20 university branches, so I have no idea what C_S is trying to claim.

According to YouGov, 13% of voters for UKIP at these Euro elections are age between 18-24, which is higher than the Green Party.

I am on about actual voting patterns which from this and previous elections the student and graduate voters are ignoring ukip. You can't deny it as all the major university cities that I mentioned have highlighted this.

Unless you can point me to some student/graduate voting statistics, the point is redundant.

For instance, UKIP secured around fifteen percent of the vote in Leeds - we have no idea what demographic of people voted for UKIP. Was UKIP's fifteen percent formed by a large proportion of student votes? Or next to no student votes?

We have no idea, therefore the point is null and void.

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Young Independence, the youth wing of UKIP, has 2,000 members and 20 university branches, so I have no idea what C_S is trying to claim.

According to YouGov, 13% of voters for UKIP at these Euro elections are age between 18-24, which is higher than the Green Party.

I am on about actual voting patterns which from this and previous elections the student and graduate voters are ignoring ukip. You can't deny it as all the major university cities that I mentioned have highlighted this.

Unless you can point me to some student/graduate voting statistics, the point is redundant.

For instance, UKIP secured around fifteen percent of the vote in Leeds - we have no idea what demographic of people voted for UKIP. Was UKIP's fifteen percent formed by a large proportion of student votes? Or next to no student votes?

We have no idea, therefore the point is null and void.

The point is not vull and noid because student cities are ignoring UKIP, that is the point.

Leeds has 33,600 students. The population is 751,500.

Hard to class it as a "student city".

And the entire point of why it is redundant as a point, before you even get to population statistics, is you don't know the demographics of the people voting and who they vote for.

Amusing to read all the highest-rated comments on the BBC page, which is mostly comprised of people sticking two fingers up to the monstrous tyranny of the left.

Ulster Unionists doing very well out West.

How did things go for everybody in this thread in their own ward..?

As far as the local council elections go, in my ward it was a rare case of a Lib Dem gain with a healthy margin of victory.  

The Conservatives (who had hitherto held the ward) were in second place with UKIP a very close third... only 9 votes between them.  Had UKIP not taken so many votes, the Conservatives would have held the ward with ease.

This is a case of UKIP splitting the tory vote and we have seen across the board that UKIP's gains have been mostly the Conservatives losses.  Sure there have been some Labour losses too, but from what I read, they are pretty "soft" defeats and in the general run of things those seats can reasonably be expected to remain in Labour hands come the General Election next year.   Quite how well the tories fare in holding their Parliamentary seats against a UKIP challenge might be a little less certain.

The Lib Dems have been solid in the areas where they have the current MP.  They are established in those places, are well organised and get their message across well.  Today's results look bad for the Lib Dems, but their General Election results may turn out better than expected.

UKIP, for all the disruption they caused to the status quo didn't gain a single council anywhere in the country and are likely to be nothing more than a nuisance to the main parties when it comes to the nitty gritty of the running of local government.   There are a lot of new  UKIP councillors who have no experience whatsoever in the running of local government.  For almost all of them, tomorrow will be the first time in their lives they have stepped inside a council chamber.

The people who voted for them may yet come to regret doing so when their local services become a mess, their council tax is mis-spent and previously well run councils become a squabbling rabble.  

Can you imagine how these amateurs, with no interest in politics save for getting Britain out of Europe, will be able to brief the people who run the schools..?  How will they negotiate with the hospital managers..?  What funds will they allocate to the various budget managers of all the departments in the Town Hall...?  They may be the fox in the Westminster hen house, but they might just be out of their depth in the local government jungle.

Sometimes, folks, you get what you vote for.  Good luck.  



Quite what these local government elections will mean in the long run is by no means certain.  Certainly, Mr Farage is whooping with joy right now and I suppose he is entitled to bragging rights.  Fair play to him for that.  

Come the General Election next year, we may find that the protest vote running out of steam.  Local council elections are very often used for people to vent their frustrations in the middle of a Parliament, but when it comes to electing a government, they return to type.   UKIP may get an MP here and there but they may be more instrumental in allowing Labour in by the back door.  

Even though they've had poor local council election results, the Lib Dems have shown themselves pretty solid in the councils where they have the sitting MP.   They could well hold most of their seats even if they lose votes in places where they don't.  In a close run election they might just hold the balance of power in a hung parliament with a minority Labour government.  It's possible.  Time will tell.

Old Chinese proverb:   "May you live in interesting times."

I think we are.

I think Duty is under the misapprehension that everybody who supports Labour is left wing...

Believe me some on the Labour right are more right wing than some on the Conservative left..

When you're a bit older you'll realise this.......

Just as most Southern Democrats in America are more right wing than most Northern Republicans........

Ahh Blue Dogs and Gypsy Moths.

UKIP win a council seat in The Mournes, existing councillor Henry Reilly, also their Euro candidate.

Fourth Lion - I believe a survery has shown that UKIP are taking more Labour voters than from the Conservative party. And, no offence, you also sound like one of those out of touch MPs living in the Westminster bubble.

Truss - You think incorrectly.

Fourth Lion.

With not actually being in control of a Council, how much damage do you think a UKIP councilor could do. When decisions need to be made, and when the chair calls for a vote, the outcome is decided by a majority vote (the choice that most council members support).

A bit of an misguided insult against people you do not even know.

I'm not sure manchester city council can get any more of a mess, i'm looking forward for the 1 year I don't have any issues with them. My favourite this year so far is, yes your correct that 4 and a half ton lorry shouldn't be in the local car park and is a safety risk but no we won't do anything about it. Yes we know it's our responsibility but no we just haven't got the time to sort it out :-D

I bet it's pleasant around Old Trafford  

Just hoping that this is a shake up and councils realise they have to start acutally taking pride in their jobs and looking after the little people instead of coasting along.

UKIP have a second councillor in NI.

Dave. wrote:UKIP have a second councillor in NI.

  

Pollsters don't seem too hot this year.

Duty281 wrote:Leeds has 33,600 students. The population is 751,500.

Hard to class it as a "student city".

And the entire point of why it is redundant as a point, before you even get to population statistics, is you don't know the demographics of the people voting and who they vote for.

It is the city as a whole. Leeds may inly have 33,000 current students but it will have previous students who are now graduates and University staff and parents of students and parents of graduates etc

The fact remains that in student cities UKIP are not making any major gains and you can infer whatever you want from that.

I will paraphrase a UKIp spokesperson who said that UKIP never made any gains in London because Londoners are more cultured, younger and BETTER EDUCATED.

I will take that spokepersons quote and apply it to all University cities and state that UKIP never made any substantial gains in any University city because the population in those cities are younger, more cultured and better educated.

Duty281 wrote:Fourth Lion - I believe a survery has shown that UKIP are taking more Labour voters than from the Conservative party. And, no offence, you also sound like one of those out of touch MPs living in the Westminster bubble.

Truss - You think incorrectly.

They are definitely taking more conservative voters.

You still don't know the demographics of the people who voted, C_S.

I won't try and explain it again, as you appear to be either wilfully ignorant or just simple, but I know everyone else understands why such a correlation is false.

Just for info most of the students I've known have either moved back to their local towns or moved away from their University's completely.

I concur with Duty btw.

Duty281 wrote:You still don't know the demographics of the people who voted, C_S.

I won't try and explain it again, as you appear to be either wilfully ignorant or just simple, but I know everyone else understands why such a correlation is false.

It is the city as a whole  

Don't get angry because your own party basiclly called you stupid for voting for them  

from your own ukip pary member Suzanne Evans  ' Ukip failed to gain any seats in London because Londoners were more cultural, educated, and young'.

Now like I said we will apply that quote to all university CITIES and UKIP failed to make any gains in manchester, liverpool, sheffield etc is because peole in those cities are more cultural, educated, and young.

Funny thing is all the parties recognize that Farage speaks the language and answers questions the public want to hear and yet as soon as the results came out it was the same political speak and bollox from them..

They say they'll have to learn from these elections..

But they won't..

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:You still don't know the demographics of the people who voted, C_S.

I won't try and explain it again, as you appear to be either wilfully ignorant or just simple, but I know everyone else understands why such a correlation is false.

It is the city as a whole  

Don't get angry because your own party basiclly called you stupid for voting for them  

from your own ukip pary member Suzanne Evans  ' Ukip failed to gain any seats in London because Londoners were more cultural, educated, and young'.

Now like I said we will apply that quote to all university CITIES and UKIP failed to make any gains in manchester, liverpool, sheffield etc is because peole in those cities are more cultural, educated, and young.

And a large amount of the city aren't students or graduates, and you don't know how that minority voted anyway, hence why the point is redundant.

And, with my IQ being just above 145, I'm hardly worried if someone criticises my intelligence. That's one area I'm easily secure on.

Oh and UKIP aren't my party; I'm not a member nor am I affliated with them in any other way.

And a large amount of the city aren't students or graduates - Duty you do realise your not allowed to mention that as it doesn't fit in with CS's views. Thought you might have learnt by now   

@ Truss
It's been the same for a few years now, I seen something today where they reckon what's happened with UKIP could open the door for a lot more smaller parties as people haven't been 'burnt' yet by them and therefore have more trust in them

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:You still don't know the demographics of the people who voted, C_S.

I won't try and explain it again, as you appear to be either wilfully ignorant or just simple, but I know everyone else understands why such a correlation is false.

It is the city as a whole  

Don't get angry because your own party basiclly called you stupid for voting for them  

from your own ukip pary member Suzanne Evans  ' Ukip failed to gain any seats in London because Londoners were more cultural, educated, and young'.

Now like I said we will apply that quote to all university CITIES and UKIP failed to make any gains in manchester, liverpool, sheffield etc is because peole in those cities are more cultural, educated, and young.

And a large amount of the city aren't students or graduates, and you don't know how that minority voted anyway, hence why the point is redundant.

And, with my IQ being just above 145, I'm hardly worried if someone criticises my intelligence. That's one area I'm easily secure on.

Oh and UKIP aren't my party; I'm not a member nor am I affliated with them in any other way.

IQ of 145 and you work the night shft at McDonalds   

A large amount of the city may not be students or graduates but the city as a whole becomes more cultural, more educated and younger when a giant university is put there and tens of thousands of students go there to study each year, that is what Suzanne Evans of the UKIP party said.

CS do you actually work?, At no point did anybody deny a university helped a city, what was said (by you) was that the students were the main population/voters of a city which we disagreed with

Derbymanc wrote:CS do you actually work?, At no point did anybody deny a university helped a city, what was said (by you) was that the students were the main population/voters of a city which we disagreed with

So you agree that Cities dominated by university students/graduates are ignoring UKIP?

Yes I work the morning shift at McDonalds  

I'm off to play football I will be back later, don't miss me too much   

Don't work at McDonalds, sorry to disappoint you C_S.

Derbymanc - Very true, and I suppose I shouldn't mention the gains that UKIP have made in Sheffield, Plymouth, Hull, Portsmouth either, right?

You only seem to disappear when you've been proved wrong, are you sure your not off to check out 'your' youtube channel?

And again, nope Universities don't dominate cities. they're just part of the furniture, bit like museums or football clubs.

As you don't work, you can't really take the urine out of someone that does, regardless of what they do. At least they're contributing to the country.

@ Duty, they'll be ignored as either not 'proper' university towns, or a twist in the argument to show that actually they're the only uni's where the students don't stay so it doesn't count.

At the end of the day, UKIP made big gains (more than expected by CS at least,) and instead of saying, hmmm they did well, there has to be some reason or excuse.

Unfortunately, grasping at straws to try and say that those that did are just stupid or sheep, shows how little you care for democracy in general and how little respect you have for the people around you.

It always rather amuses me when C_S says we need to debate like adults, failing to see the irony of what he's just wrote.

And UKIP also made gains in Greater Manchester!

Labour needs to start pulling their fingers out in the North, think they've gotten that used to winning that they just wing it (didn't even get a flyer this year,) Plus I think that this, 'my family voted xxxxx so I will' is starting to fade as well.

Although Graham Stringers alright and he does seem to speak his mind. (The council don't seem happy when you go over their head straight to him ha ha)

Quite understandable, though, as Labour have never really had a significant challenge "up North", as it were. That's where UKIP can really begin to target in 2015, and hope to pick off the complacent Labour vote, whilst not needing to worry about the Tories in that section of the United Kingdom.

And Farage can choose a lovely spot in the Home Counties, upon which to get his seat in the House Of Commons, where I predict he'll be this time in thirteen months.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Funny thing is all the parties recognize that Farage speaks the language and answers questions the public want to hear and yet as soon as the results came out it was the same political speak and bollox from them..

They say they'll have to learn from these elections..

But they won't..

The LibLabCon lot are showing themselves to be stuck in their little Westminster bubble, hopelessly out of touch with the working-class fellows. And arrogant. And conceited. And patronising. And complacent.

I'll say it again..What is wrong with working at McDonalds..If no one did the blue collar jobs the Country would be on it's knees..

New poll out by Lord Ashcroft 26 times bigger than others in sample size....Labour's lead in the important constituencies goes from 2% to 8.5%..

That is a big lead..

Good news for Labour..As it's only marginals that count

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'll say it again..What is wrong with working at McDonalds..If no one did the blue collar jobs the Country would be on it's knees..

I have nothing against it, Truss, I just don't work there..and never have. It's C_S that keeps bringing it up!

The Conservative Party will of course try to get the UKIP voters back, as will Labour and the Lib Dems. How much though? Time will tell.

But if Cameron offered a referendum for early 2016, i can tell you now, it would give him a landslide victory at the 2015 GE.

No Skye..

1 It would look desperate..

2 He's done 42 u-turns already so who'd believe him..

3 Elections are won on domestic issues and always will be...Job security..Education....Health...Cost of living..

Derbymanc wrote:You only seem to disappear when you've been proved wrong, are you sure your not off to check out 'your' youtube channel?

Unlike you I do leave my house every now and then.

I have not been roven wrong in the slightest, University cities are ignoring UKIP. Ukip spokesperson even said this was due to the voters being more educated. This proves to me that the average UKIP voter is middle aged and uneducated.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No Skye..

1 It would look desperate..

2 He's done 42 u-turns already so who'd believe him..

3 Elections are won on domestic issues and always will be...Job security..Education....Health...Cost of living..

This is the issue I have been saying all along, UKIP have 1 policy which is the EU and that will not win the GE next year. UKIP suporters will return to their parties and Skye is an eg of that who has said he will return to the SNP.

Am I uneducated, in your opinion, C_S? (I certainly don't fit the middle-aged bracket)

Duty281 wrote:Am I uneducated, in your opinion, C_S? (I certainly don't fit the middle-aged bracket)

Well you failed your A-levels....

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Am I uneducated, in your opinion, C_S? (I certainly don't fit the middle-aged bracket)

Well you failed your A-levels....

And there was me thinking I got 3 'B's!

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Am I uneducated, in your opinion, C_S? (I certainly don't fit the middle-aged bracket)

Well you failed your A-levels....

And there was me thinking I got 3 'B's!

Nick Griffen went to Oxford uni.......

Anyway I'm off to watch the UCL final.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Am I uneducated, in your opinion, C_S? (I certainly don't fit the middle-aged bracket)

Well you failed your A-levels....

And there was me thinking I got 3 'B's!

Nick Griffen went to Oxford uni.......

Anyway I'm off to watch the UCL final.

He is an educated fellow, just with an incredibly misguided set of ideals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZrRHQ0k5ps8

First time i have ever agreed with gorgeous George.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RpDFDH5HjU8

Meaningless ? Wait for the others.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10854566/David-Cameron-draws-up-immigration-laws-to-foil-Ukip.html