Pro12 Final 31/5

First topic message reminder :

The Ladyboys v The Soap Dodgers
At RDS Dublin, 6.15pm.

Live on RTE/BBC ALBA/ BBC WALES/TG4/Mediaset

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 111th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Leighton Hodges, Ian Davies (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: Maurizio Vancini (FIR)
TMO: Derek Bevan (WRU)

***
Glasgay

15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Alex Dunbar
12. Peter Horne
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
9. Chris Cusiter

1. Gordon Reid
2. Dougie Hall
3. Jon Welsh
4. Jonny Gray
5. Al Kellock
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Josh Strauss

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Ryan Grant
18. Moray Low
19. Tim Swinson
20. Leone Nakarawa
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Ruaridh Jackson
23. Sean Lamont

Cuige Laighean

15: Rob Kearney
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Zane Kirchner
10: Jimmy Gopperth
9: Eoin Reddan
1: Cian Healy
2: Sean Cronin
3: Mike Ross
4: Devin Toner
5: Mike McCarthy
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:
16: Aaron Dundon
17: Jack McGrath
18: Martin Moore
19: Leo Cullen
20: Sean O'Brien
21: Isaac Boss
22: Ian Madigan
23: Darragh Fanning

George Carlin wrote:Nice to see that this thread has wheezed back into life.

I see that the realization has set in that the possibility of a Hogg move is real and has moved from 'unlikely' to 'probable'. Ulster seemed less likely than a move to the Jeff or Top 14 but Hogg is from a small town in the borders and is only 21. Fairly intimidating to move to another country at that age and the fact that he has the support of his relatives in Belfast has got to be a factor.

In terms of his alleged 'attitude', I know people who have met the guy many times (in SRU admin) and a friend of mine trained with him at Scotland U20 and A grade. None of them (and I mean NONE) have reported that he was anything other than a pleasant, ordinary teenager who knew that he was a good rugby player and was confident on the pitch. That's it.

I'm not as close to the club as a lot of other posters here but are we really suggesting that it's beyond the realms of possibility that Hogg has been advised by an agent he is being underpaid for his relative status and he should look at other possibilities? Of course not. It may ultimately mean that the SRU grizzles and forks out a bit more to keep him put but that's very much the nature of modern sport. I don't think less of him for seeing what's out there. Agents sit marginally above plankton, the ebola virus and estate agents on the evolutionary scale, but what's a player to do?

Can I add vets to your list?

Soooooooooo

Dot is a bloke
Schiz is a girl
Jenifer is a yet to be confirmed

Anyhoo,

Anyone know when the teams are being announced?

....At the Drag Queen Party night tonight in Whelans. All Men with Beards welcome.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Nice to see that this thread has wheezed back into life.

I see that the realization has set in that the possibility of a Hogg move is real and has moved from 'unlikely' to 'probable'. Ulster seemed less likely than a move to the Jeff or Top 14 but Hogg is from a small town in the borders and is only 21. Fairly intimidating to move to another country at that age and the fact that he has the support of his relatives in Belfast has got to be a factor.

In terms of his alleged 'attitude', I know people who have met the guy many times (in SRU admin) and a friend of mine trained with him at Scotland U20 and A grade. None of them (and I mean NONE) have reported that he was anything other than a pleasant, ordinary teenager who knew that he was a good rugby player and was confident on the pitch. That's it.

I'm not as close to the club as a lot of other posters here but are we really suggesting that it's beyond the realms of possibility that Hogg has been advised by an agent he is being underpaid for his relative status and he should look at other possibilities? Of course not. It may ultimately mean that the SRU grizzles and forks out a bit more to keep him put but that's very much the nature of modern sport. I don't think less of him for seeing what's out there. Agents sit marginally above plankton, the ebola virus and estate agents on the evolutionary scale, but what's a player to do?

Can I add vets to your list?

What do you have against vets?Off topic I know but I've never heard put vets in a bracket like that.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Cullen rather than Toner, J-Pip

OK, I will apologise to Mr Toner for mistaking him for Leo "Have you seen my missus?" Cullen. You would have to apologise to any sentient being that you mistook for the walking Picasso. Apparently the Naional Gallery in Dublin were offered Picasso's Guernica on loan and rejected it on the grounds that they already had The Cullen's wedding album.

However, I will apologise to no man for attempting to resuscitate the Mabawsa Ritchie joke : it has been making me titter since 1973 and I see no reason to abandon it now.

p.s. If Schiz is a girl in drag why the hell is she dressing up as Father Jack with the D.T.s?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Nice to see that this thread has wheezed back into life.

I see that the realization has set in that the possibility of a Hogg move is real and has moved from 'unlikely' to 'probable'. Ulster seemed less likely than a move to the Jeff or Top 14 but Hogg is from a small town in the borders and is only 21. Fairly intimidating to move to another country at that age and the fact that he has the support of his relatives in Belfast has got to be a factor.

In terms of his alleged 'attitude', I know people who have met the guy many times (in SRU admin) and a friend of mine trained with him at Scotland U20 and A grade. None of them (and I mean NONE) have reported that he was anything other than a pleasant, ordinary teenager who knew that he was a good rugby player and was confident on the pitch. That's it.

I'm not as close to the club as a lot of other posters here but are we really suggesting that it's beyond the realms of possibility that Hogg has been advised by an agent he is being underpaid for his relative status and he should look at other possibilities? Of course not. It may ultimately mean that the SRU grizzles and forks out a bit more to keep him put but that's very much the nature of modern sport. I don't think less of him for seeing what's out there. Agents sit marginally above plankton, the ebola virus and estate agents on the evolutionary scale, but what's a player to do?

Can I add vets to your list?

What do you have against vets?Off topic I know but I've never heard put vets in a bracket like that.

1. I am assuming that Tattie means veterinarians rather than war veterans.

2. He was young. He went with his mum to the doctor's. The doctor's was full. The vet's was next door. It was only a simply molar extraction. It was cheap. Nobody was watching.....(I'm just guessing   ).

Vets are more highly qualified than docs. A doc can only attend to human animals, a vet can attend to human animals, animal animals and cuddly toys (after dark in the privacy of their own homes)

Surprised Lawyers don't warrant a mention in that list...

Sorry GC and FES!

A little something to gets the hairs standing on end:

Choice of music is poor don't you think?

Are you monitoring Twitter as well ASBO ?

I know ASBO doesnt like vets as he's feart that he'll get put down one day!

Ineffable wrote:Choice of music is poor don't you think?

Are you monitoring Twitter as well ASBO ?

Aye

tigertattie wrote:I know ASBO doesnt like vets as he's feart that he'll get put down one day!

Nah, no fears they'll come near a mangy, rabid old dog!

Where's Atticus Finch when you need him?

highland_scot wrote:Surprised Lawyers don't warrant a mention in that list...

Sorry GC and FES!

You'll be hearing from my solicitors, Highland_Scot... 

Just been announced that BBC 2 Scotland will also be showing the game live. It will be the BBC Alba broadcast but they are putting it on BBC2 as well to get a wider reach in audience.

I'm sticking loyal to ALBA I think. The passion of the commentator is like having an extra friend in the room. Also you can speak over the top of him more easily. BBC ABLA GU BRATH!

As I said, it will still be the Alba broadcast, just also shown on BBC2.

In even simpler terms- BBC Alba and BBC2 will be broadcasting exactly the same commentary!  

  

Brilliant, RDW, I feared Scott Hastings was annexing the commentary booth.

Nematode wrote:I'm sticking loyal to ALBA I think. The passion of the commentator is like having an extra friend in the room. Also you can speak over the top of him more easily. BBC ABLA GU BRATH!

Nema, your friends must love going round to your house.  

They should get Stuart Hogg as the summariser - could be interesting...   

Anyone know when the Leinster team is announced?

RDW_Scotland wrote:They should get Stuart Hogg as the summariser - could be interesting...   

If you we're to believe all the rumours flying around here, he wouldn't be available as he'd be too busy checking out the Tescos and Asdas in Belfast...

The BBc also saying that Hoggy is not in the squad and said to be 'dissapointed'. That may turn out to be the understatement of the year!

It really is very hard to get your head around this, has something happend here or is this just purely a rugby decesion? At the end of the day Murchie has been exceptional in the past few games and really does not deserve to be dropped. Hoggy on the other hand just seems to have had that bit of second season syndrom and just really does not seem to have fired this year. The Lions tour just seems to have done him no favours at all.

i really hope that we get to find out the truth about this one day, at some point someone is going to break the omerta.

Scottish players and clubs don't get to finals very often, i really hope that he gets another chance!

It must be remembered that as much as any individual performance Glasgow's success has been built on an admirable sense of camaraderie and esprit de corps. Throughout the season "foreigner" signings have constantly commented on how tight a group the team, in the widest sense, are at Glasgow. If any player is in any way detracting from that then Toonie should drop him. One of the images from the semi t'other week still burning bright in my memory is of Jedi and Hornee Furra behind the try line with the water bottles and doing their best to gee up their team-mates.
I'll repeat myself, again, if anyone at Scotstoun thinks he is better than the rest then he needs to be given a quick course in Truth Therapy.

Hate to say it but we seem to be doing fine without him. At this stage in the squad I'd hesitantly suggest that (IF the rumours are true) his anti-team behaviour is more of a hindrance than his quality play is a help.

BigGee wrote:Scottish players and clubs don't get to finals very often, i really hope that he gets another chance!

If he comes to Ulster he'll have plenty more chances to emulate Peter Murchies achievement of heartbreakingly losing to Leinster at the final hurdle. It's kind of our speciality  

I get the impression it's between us and Saracens, he has family in Belfast but Sarries can pay him more money and then there's the relationship with Jim Hamilton and Kelly Brows that might sway him.

If he is going to go then I would prefer Saries, a move to our near neighbours just would not feel right, only marginally better than going to Edinburgh!

Johnnie Beattie has been confirmed as co-commentator - a good move.

Also there will be a whole 15 minutes pre match build up!

Nice piece on Jay-Z Heaslip in the Hoorald:

Cut Jamie Heaslip down to size and Glasgow can prosper

by Alasdair Reid, Rugby reporter

When Glasgow Warriors take the field against Leinster tomorrow night in the RaboDirect PRO12 final in Dublin they will line up against some of the finest players in European rugby. They will also face a player who is arguably the closest thing the sport has to a perpetual motion machine.

To call Jamie Heaslip tireless would understate his energy levels to a considerable degree. Granted, the No.8 has played in just 10 of Leinster's 23 PRO12 matches this season but that figure is a reflection of their strength in depth rather than an asterisk against his abilities as a player. At the higher level, he was chosen for all seven of the side's Heineken Cup games and was also the only player to play every minute of Ireland's eight Tests throughout November and the RBS 6 Nations Championship.

Such figures are more often clocked up by players who are in the first flush of youth, who have energy and vigour and enthusiasm on their side, but Heaslip is fast approaching his 31st birthday, has 65 Ireland appearances under his belt and came into the current campaign on the back of a ferocious tour of Australia with the Lions last year.

Time to ease off? Not yet. When the PRO12 final is over, he will grab a few hours' sleep and then set off on Ireland's two-Test trip to Argentina. Only when that venture is behind him will he grab a short break and then pile into pre-season training for the 2014/15 campaign.

Heaslip first came into the Leinster side a decade ago, by which time players such as Brian O'Driscoll, Felipe Contepomi, Malcom O'Kelly and Gordon D'Arcy had already established the Dublin outfit among the European elite. In some eyes, he is still part of the second wave of Leinster greats, but he unquestionably brought a hardness, harshness and focus which were instrumental in transforming the perennial Heineken Cup bridesmaids into three-time champions.

Their hopes of a fourth title were dynamited at the quarter-final stage of this season's competition when they were beaten 29-14 by eventual winners Toulon. But Leinster endured a similar setback last year - worse, in fact, as they did not even reach the European knockout phase - yet still recovered to clinch the PRO12 title when they beat Ulster in the final game of the club season.

Leinster are short-odds favourites to repeat that achievement against Glasgow this weekend. Glasgow, with nine consecutive PRO12 wins under their belts, have momentum on their side, but the Irish side have the big-game experience that can so often be the most significant factor in these circumstances. Leinster also have the powerful emotional spur of the fact that Brian O'Driscoll and Leo Cullen will be playing their last games for the side. Even so, Heaslip is taking nothing for granted and acknowledges that the Warriors will comprise formidable opponents.

"We know them all too well," said Heaslip. "We've had them in Europe, playing in knockouts and the league. They're a combative side, they're playing like a really good collective team that know what they're about and how they want to play.

"They've got real momentum behind them, quality players and it's not going to be easy going up against them. We played them in the semis last year [when Leinster won 17-15 at the RDS] and I think everyone can agree that game could have gone either way. We know the margins that are there."

The numbers are tight indeed. Their last eight PRO12 meetings have all been settled by a margin of less than a converted try. Leinster won four of those encounters, Glasgow three, with one drawn. Ominously for Warriors supporters, however, Leinster have made home advantage count. Glasgow have won just once in their last 19 visits to Dublin.

"It could have gone either way," said Heaslip of their semi-final encounter 12 months ago. "There was just once score between us and Glasgow. That was down to that ball we held up on the line when they nearly went in for a try, or it could have been a very different game. We know all too well what it's going to take.

"It's fantastic to be playing in the RDS again. It's a great atmosphere and a real cauldron but, at the same time, teams are used to that. With the momentum they have, they are not going to be afraid coming over here. We're all too aware of the threats they're going to pose."

And Glasgow, for their part, are only too well aware of the threat Heaslip poses. An athlete he may be, but he is also a beast at the breakdown, combining strength, aggression and technical excellence over the ball. The Glasgow and Leinster back rows appear evenly balanced, but Heaslip stands above all the other breakaways in terms of proven quality and experience. If the Warriors are to win this match, they must first subdue him.

He knows it, too. "They've got some really good people on the ground," he said. "They're good in terms of tackles. More often than not they have got someone else in on the ball, slowing momentum down. They're strong around the rucks so they don't leak any easy metres there. It's a thing they obviously work on.

"These are all headaches for our attacking coaches to try and break them down. It puts it on us, as players, to try and execute their game plans."

It is a fiendishly difficult game to call. In Scottish terms, Glasgow can make history tomorrow, but Leinster are not without motivation either.

"We play to our standard and we'll get the outcome we deserve on the day," said Heaslip. "That's how we measure ourselves. Are trophies what we judge ourselves on? Not really. We kind of judge ourselves on our everyday standards.

"So we don't sit down and say: 'We want to win this, we want to win that'. Those days are kind of gone. It's more about what we want to be known as. As a bloke, what do you want your team-mates to say about you? What do you want the guys who play against you to say about you and your club? They're the kind of things we try and judge ourselves on."

Would have been daft to have BBC2 and Alba have the exact same broadcast as everyone in Scotland can now watch Alba if they choose to!

Having said that, I may still listen to BBC radio Scotland if Peter Wright is commentating   

tigertattie wrote:Would have been daft to have BBC2 and Alba have the exact same broadcast as everyone in Scotland can now watch Alba if they choose to!

 

Again, BBC2 and BBC Alba are doing exactly the same broadcast!   

Johnnie Beattie is filling in for the usual injured squad player that Alba get to co-commentate!

tigertattie wrote:Would have been daft to have BBC2 and Alba have the exact same broadcast as everyone in Scotland can now watch Alba if they choose to!

Having said that, I may still listen to BBC radio Scotland if Peter Wright is commentating   

#

Only if they know it exists and know the rugby on

Putting it on BBC2 hugely raises the profile to the non core rugby bods - which I think is a really good thing

I agree on the coverage.

I did not know that Alba even showed the rugby until I stumbled across it by accident whilst perusing the higher reaches of the channel listing a couple of years ago. I like Hugh-Dan as a commentator, his passion and commitment is great.

However you have to wonder how many people, like myself, simply do not realise that it is on. Having the game on BBC2 is a good way to try and get the additional, non-core viewers in. The alternatives at 6.15 are the end of "How to Train Your Dragon", followed by the News and Pointless Celebrities on BBC 1, and some rubbish on ITV.

I will have to sweet talk my better half though, she can't stand the commentary in Gaelic because she doesn't understand. I quite like it, sure beats Jiffy going on about Wales and the likes of Brian Moore having a rant about squint feeds!

eh, I'll have you know that "How to train your dragon" is a bloomin good flim!

I'm all for the game to be on BBC2. It does reach a wider audience, but it would be daft to have Gaelic commentary only. It would put folk off! I only watch Alba because I want to watch rugby, if the "non" rugby folk put on the Rabo final and it was in Gealic only then they'd most likely switch over to Britain's got talent!

It is a decent film...

Agreed on the commentary putting people off though. I just like the gobbledegook but would rather have English commentary available for the uninitiated.

highland_scot wrote:I agree on the coverage.

I did not know that Alba even showed the rugby until I stumbled across it by accident whilst perusing the higher reaches of the channel listing a couple of years ago. I like Hugh-Dan as a commentator, his passion and commitment is great.

However you have to wonder how many people, like myself, simply do not realise that it is on. Having the game on BBC2 is a good way to try and get the additional, non-core viewers in. The alternatives at 6.15 are the end of "How to Train Your Dragon", followed by the News and Pointless Celebrities on BBC 1, and some rubbish on ITV.

I will have to sweet talk my better half though, she can't stand the commentary in Gaelic because she doesn't understand. I quite like it, sure beats Jiffy going on about Wales and the likes of Brian Moore having a rant about squint feeds!

Tis a beautiful language, Highland - maybe encourage her to learn it?!

Anyway, to get our Irish buddies involved again, its score prediction time!!!

I'm going for a Glasgow win by between 2 and 4 points!

tigertattie wrote:Anyway, to get our Irish buddies involved again, its score prediction time!!!

I'm going for a Glasgow win by between 2 and 4 points!

Big shout, tattie - Leinster must be firm favourites, its at the ARRRR DDEEEEE ESSHHHH, plus they are vastly experienced at these types of games

tigertattie wrote:Anyway, to get our Irish buddies involved again, its score prediction time!!!

I'm going for a Glasgow win by between 2 and 4 points!

Between 2 and 4? So 3 then?

Based purely on the fact that when teams reach a first final, or a first final in a long time, against a team that's more used to winning silverwear, it USUALLY goes with the more experienced team, I'm going for Leinster. But it wouldn't shock me if we lost. If we do win it will be by 5 of fewer points.

Seems to be a very low key build up to this one and very little interest compared to the other two league finals.

Sort of sums up the problems with the Rabo, very little mainstream media exposure which is a shame considering its the last time the great man will lace up his boots.

I think Leinster by 7+

It's at the RDS
Too much experience in the Leinster team.
Too much pressure on Glasgow.

Glasgow Warriors:

Murchie, Maitland, Dunbar, Horne, Seymour, Russell, Cusiter; Reid, Hall, Welsh, Gray, Kellock, Harley, Fusaro, Strauss

Bench: MacArthur, Grant, Low, Swinson, Nakarawa, Matawalu, Jackson, Lamont

Glasgow Warriors team vs Leinster
15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Alex Dunbar
12. Peter Horne
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
9. Chris Cusiter

1. Gordon Reid
2. Dougie Hall
3. Jon Welsh
4. Jonny Gray
5. Al Kellock
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Josh Strauss

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Ryan Grant
18. Moray Low
19. Tim Swinson
20. Leone Nakarawa
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Ruaridh Jackson
23. Sean Lamont

Disappointed that no Hoggy and no

But just reward for Murchie's form and consistency and I guess it makes sense to have a second five-eighth type 12 in Horneee furraaa linneeee, in which case Dunbar moves to 13, and the Messiah misses out

I guess the main surprise is Horne in instead of Bennett, that must have been a nightmare of a call, very difficult to choose between them. No problems with Reid starting, he has probably shaded Grant recently anyway, both will be on the pitch at some stage.

Hogg not in the squad, well we can't really be surprised about it, we knew it was coming!

Glasgow have played the squad game all year long and played it very well, there were always going to be some disappointments when the team was announced. I hope all the players really get behind the team though and if they win, feel that they are part of it as well. It is won over the whole season at the end of the day, not just on this one match.

The Leinster team to face Glasgow Warriors in the RaboDirect PRO12 Final tomorrow evening, 31st May (KO: 6.15pm) in the RDS has been named.
Coach Matt O'Connor has made three changes from the team that accounted for Ulster in the Semi-Final 13 points to nine with two of those changes coming in the pack.

Mike Ross comes in for Martin Moore while Mike McCarthy returns from injury in place of Quinn Roux. The final change sees Zane Kirchner coming in for Dave Kearney who undergoes surgery on an ACL knee injury today.

Elsewhere it is as you were for O'Connor with full back Rob Kearney due to win his 150th cap for the province.

The teams have met twice this year with both sides winning at home. Glasgow won 12-6 back in September in Scotstoun, while Leinster won the return fixture 28-25 in March with tries from Rhys Ruddock, Noel Reid and Darragh Fanning.

The game will be live on RTÉ 2, TG4 and BBC. There are no tickets available for the game with an increased capacity crowd of 19,200 expected.

LEINSTER:
15: Rob Kearney
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Zane Kirchner
10: Jimmy Gopperth
9: Eoin Reddan
1: Cian Healy
2: Sean Cronin
3: Mike Ross
4: Devin Toner
5: Mike McCarthy
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:
16: Aaron Dundon
17: Jack McGrath
18: Martin Moore
19: Leo Cullen
20: Sean O'Brien
21: Isaac Boss
22: Ian Madigan
23: Darragh Fanning

13 Irish internationals and a Springbok starting, 6 Irish internationals on the bench.