Ulster 2014/2015

First topic message reminder :

Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...

We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster as a team have unquestionably improved in the HEC. Beating both English and French opposition home and away in the same year is something the province has never done before, especially considering there were no major new signings.

That led to a lot more players being involved in Ireland squads. Therefore there was a lot more demand on the rest of the squad in the PRO12. Ulster still made the playoffs despite the injury list but their real problem was that they should have had a home semi.

There were a few games over the course of the season where the team didn't perform such as the Glasgow and Blues games, but still plenty of games where they exceeded themselves. The backs have scored some tries off first phase that shows they are being coached well. The defence is especially parsimonious that again shows they are well coached. The team are up there in the fair play league and generally have a low penalty count that shows they have discipline instilled into them.

An inability to score in the red zone is not something unique to Ulster - they have stopped plenty of others doing it to them. Toulon for all their power and resources often revert to Jonny's left foot in similar circumstances (as indeed do Saracens). Ulster should have had far more points on the board in those periods of domination against Leinster but they should have come from Jackson's boot, and that is something he hasn't yet learned.

It's fine in hindsight criticising the coaches for a loss but how do they know how Pienaar is going to hold up under match pressure? He has before so why not again? Marshall would have received just as much criticism, and no-one knows if he would have been any better.

My personal views after that game are much the same as they were prior to it. Poor decision in center pairing, and a huge risk in starting Pienaar and Best. As far as Pienaar is concerned, it was obvious from the first quarter of that game that he wasn't right, and at the very least he should have been subbed early. It's the coaching staffs job to make sure that players are ready for big games. What sort of message does this send out to P Marshall? especially when keeping Pienaar on when he clearly wasn't firing right.
Pienaar doesn't really deserve any harsh criticism, it isn't really his fault that he was selected to start before he was ready, and you don't know what criticism Marshall would have received. Marshall has stepped up recently, and if we had have gone on to win the game with Marshall I doubt very much any would have a bad word to say about him.
Anscombe is as liable to criticism as any of the players. I like Anscombe. I love how Ulster play rugby, most of the time, and his tactics have been spot on throughout the HEC group stages (that is a hindsight call), but his selection for this game was wrong in my opinion, and personally I wish that he would knock the Payne to center experiment on the head.

Jeez lads you will be on the 2015/16 thread by the end of June...

There's a lot of truth in this thread but a lot of nonsense aswell. Notch made the point about Anscombe sounding the same in post match interviews and used the worst example to back it up. He was scathing in the aftermath of that game to the point were he threatened certain guys with the chop.

He was much more conciliatory in the Leinster interview. I disagree with him being similar in interviews. I think he calls it as he sees it (I don't always agree) but I think he is refreshingly straight.

That said there are flaws and the points made regarding the lack of use of the bench at the weekend is incredibly valid. It sends out the wrong message and is also inhibited. There are better coaches than Anscombe guilty of the same thing however, witness Mr Schmidt
at twickenham this year. Backup 9 is an issue and one I don't think the coaches have dealt with brilliantly but then all the options are pretty poor.

Sin

I can't see why Ulster would have any difficulty attracting a top coach as plenty of teams operate under a DOR these days not least our national team at the behest of the coach! On another point the Hurricanes are going better than they have in years and Hammett isn't half as unpopular as he was initially.

I'm with DOD guys, I think we should draw a line under last season and look ahead to next, that is what the new topic is about after all!

I notice that Chris Cochrane is down as retiring? Is this injury enforced? Or just another way of saying he's not going to playing professionally? Can't say I remember hearing anything about his retirement.

Can we at least address one issue - our squad depth is due to get worse next year, when it should get better. Can anyone explain what the strategy is on this? Or are we just so out of pocket after the new stadium that we had to do with a smaller squad and keep most of afoas wage, just so we could afford Herbst and Van Der Merve?

Notch posted this some while back -

Players Out
Johann Muller (retiring), Paddy Wallace (retiring), Chris Cochrane (retiring), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish)

So are we to hope Ferris comes back to his best? Olding comes back just to make Mccloskeys chances even more unlikely. Scholes, Allen, Andrew, Nelson, Joyce, McCall are to become dependable and solid enough to win games?

We always talk about 'Pro12 standard' players. There shouldn't really be such a thing.

In a professional sport, where injuries are part of the process, we can't have backups that aren't dependable at HEC level.

I really hope that Davy Humps isn't sitting back saying "There you go Shane - check out the 1st XV we've built - now lets hope we don't have to play any of the others in important games!"

Hands up who reckons our squad is in the top 5 in Europe? I don't.

Standulstermen wrote:
Sin

I can't see why Ulster would have any difficulty attracting a top coach as plenty of teams operate under a DOR these days not least our national team at the behest of the coach! On another point the Hurricanes are going better than they have in years and Hammett isn't half as unpopular as he was initially.

Declan Kidney was a DOR type coach. The difference between him and Conor O'Shea with Humphreys is that they fronted the coaching teams, not their coaching staff. They are the ones who face the media. Humphreys doesn't operate like that.

Maybe so but it doesn't mean there is any less validity to it. Nucifora won't be fronting up to the cameras after the Ireland games and yet Schmidt actively canvassed for his role

Standulstermen wrote:Maybe so but it doesn't mean there is any less validity to it. Nucifora won't be fronting up to the cameras after the Ireland games and yet Schmidt actively canvassed for his role

He might have canvassed for Nucifora in the role as they coached together at the Blues, but I think the decision to create this position was made a couple of years ago, just the IRFU hadn't managed to recruit anyone for the job.

ReadBetweenthePosts wrote:I'm with DOD guys, I think we should draw a line under last season and look ahead to next, that is what the new topic is about after all!

I notice that Chris Cochrane is down as retiring? Is this injury enforced? Or just another way of saying he's not going to playing professionally? Can't say I remember hearing anything about his retirement.

I'm not sure, I'm taking the info from the programme from our last home game of the season.

Sin é wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:
Sin

I can't see why Ulster would have any difficulty attracting a top coach as plenty of teams operate under a DOR these days not least our national team at the behest of the coach! On another point the Hurricanes are going better than they have in years and Hammett isn't half as unpopular as he was initially.

Declan Kidney was a DOR type coach. The difference between him and Conor O'Shea with Humphreys is that they fronted the coaching teams, not their coaching staff. They are the ones who face the media. Humphreys doesn't operate like that.

Yes, but Kidney was responsible for team selection and tactics. Humphreys isn't. Humphreys has been very available to the media to talk about long-term planning, recruitment and building the academy and youth development structures which is his job. Why would he answer questions about tactics and team selection when that isn't his job?

I don't think his role is similar to Kidney or O'Shea at all. They had the final call on rugby related matters on match day. That is the role of the Head Coach at Ulster.

clivemcl wrote:Can we at least address one issue - our squad depth is due to get worse next year, when it should get better. Can anyone explain what the strategy is on this? Or are we just so out of pocket after the new stadium that we had to do with a smaller squad and keep most of afoas wage, just so we could afford Herbst and Van Der Merve?

Notch posted this some while back -

Players Out
Johann Muller (retiring), Paddy Wallace (retiring), Chris Cochrane (retiring), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish)

So are we to hope Ferris comes back to his best? Olding comes back just to make Mccloskeys chances even more unlikely. Scholes, Allen, Andrew, Nelson, Joyce, McCall are to become dependable and solid enough to win games?

We always talk about 'Pro12 standard' players. There shouldn't really be such a thing.

In a professional sport, where injuries are part of the process, we can't have backups that aren't dependable at HEC level.

I really hope that Davy Humps isn't sitting back saying "There you go Shane - check out the 1st XV we've built - now lets hope we don't have to play any of the others in important games!"

Hands up who reckons our squad is in the top 5 in Europe? I don't.

Clive it's too hard to quantify what a top 5 squad is. In reality all those in the top 5 would be French. Look at Toulouse? On paper they have easily a top 5 in Europe squad.

We can only grow depth slowly. I think our depth is going to be good from 9-15 and in the second row next season, it's the front row and back row that worry me.

A bigger concern is that not enough players are putting their hands up as leadership material.

All fair points. The name Brendan O'Connor I have heard being mentioned for the Backrow spot

It sounds like it would be a good signing.

clivemcl wrote:Can we at least address one issue - our squad depth is due to get worse next year, when it should get better. Can anyone explain what the strategy is on this? Or are we just so out of pocket after the new stadium that we had to do with a smaller squad and keep most of afoas wage, just so we could afford Herbst and Van Der Merve?

The IRFU agreed a strategy to get Ulster up to the standard of Leinster and Munster with Humphreys and Logan at the helm. Funding was increased to bring in a number of top marquee players for a few seasons to help kick start the process but it was only temporary. Thereafter the strategy is to produce home grown players to replace the NIQs.

All the provinces now have reduced budgets bar Connacht who are getting the same boost now to get them up to the other three's standard.

The focus for Ulster now is investing the regional development squads to help build the player pool and to keep the on field performance at the same level without the top class SA and NZ players.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:
Sin

I can't see why Ulster would have any difficulty attracting a top coach as plenty of teams operate under a DOR these days not least our national team at the behest of the coach! On another point the Hurricanes are going better than they have in years and Hammett isn't half as unpopular as he was initially.

Declan Kidney was a DOR type coach. The difference between him and Conor O'Shea with Humphreys is that they fronted the coaching teams, not their coaching staff. They are the ones who face the media. Humphreys doesn't operate like that.

Yes, but Kidney was responsible for team selection and tactics. Humphreys isn't. Humphreys has been very available to the media to talk about long-term planning, recruitment and building the academy and youth development structures which is his job. Why would he answer questions about tactics and team selection when that isn't his job?

I don't think his role is similar to Kidney or O'Shea at all. They had the final call on rugby related matters on match day. That is the role of the Head Coach at Ulster.

Humphreys is responsible for hiring and firing. That might suit some coaches, but I don't think it will suit the really top ones who would want full control on that aspect of the coaching. Humphreys is always sitting there at Anscombe's shoulder. I think this relationship might work in some circumstances if there is a good relationship between them, but I think its a bit of a come down for any former Super Rugby head coaches like Lam or Anscombe to have to answer to a Director of Rugby.

ReadBetweenthePosts wrote:I'm with DOD guys, I think we should draw a line under last season and look ahead to next, that is what the new topic is about after all!

I notice that Chris Cochrane is down as retiring? Is this injury enforced? Or just another way of saying he's not going to playing professionally? Can't say I remember hearing anything about his retirement.

He has several chronic leg injuries and probably won't play any sort of competitive rugby again. Great attitude just unlucky that he couldn't develop the bulk to be physical enough.

Regarding the replacement coach, be careful what you wish for. I'd heard they might try to get McCall back home after next season with the carrot of higher things if it worked out. If he wasn't tempted then there is a real chance it could be Doak...

So, is the assumption that Anscombe is going to leave after next year, or get the boot....as Aukster said be careful what you wish for....

As an outsider I thought you were unlucky this last season. I also thought that the game plan has come along nicely and you have a pack that is hard as nails and some really good backs.

However.....I also think I could have said the same thing last year and the year before. There is an element of making your own luck as well...

The likes of Afoa and Muller leaving are a concern in addition players like Marshall (L) havent kicked on....

Edit - can any of you provide what you would see as a first team for next year? Just be interested to see it.

Ferris is retiring...

You have to feel for him. Very determined and brave return to fitness. Very short lived - Thankyou Stevie - an Ulster hero.

Not great for squad - now more than ever I really wish we heard announcements re backrow signings.

 


Edit: Its only being reported as likely, not definite.

Aw gees - have you a link Clive? It was on the cards for a while but gutted to hear that.

Arguably the best player Ulster have produced in the pro era.... its so disappointing we never got to see the best of him but he can be proud of everything he has achieved in his career.

Long term health needs to come first though.

Rodders - think this must be link....

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/career-of-stephen-ferris-may-be-over-due-to-recurring-ankle-injury-1.1802979

ME-109 wrote:So, is the assumption that Anscombe is going to leave after next year, or get the boot....as Aukster said be careful what you wish for....

As an outsider I thought you were unlucky this last season. I also thought that the game plan has come along nicely and you have a pack that is hard as nails and some really good backs.

However.....I also think I could have said the same thing last year and the year before. There is an element of making your own luck as well...

The likes of Afoa and Muller leaving are a concern in addition players like Marshall (L) havent kicked on....

Edit - can any of you provide what you would see as a first team for next year? Just be interested to see it.

Thanks ME, I think you are spot on - you need a bit of luck to win things but great teams make their own luck too. We are almost there but not quite.

I suppose the debate is whether we are getting closer (I believe so) or not but if you look at how long Leinster and Munster were knocking on the door in the naughties before they won the HEC then I think we can take heart from that.

Well that's it, Stevie is a young lad and would want to be walking unassisted when he's in his 50's and onwards. Risking that for maybe one season of rugby would not be a gamble worth taking. It's gutting as an Ulster fan but not nearly as gutting as it is for 1F. I'm not a twitterer or facebooker so I can only say it on here, all the best Stevie, you have left us with some of the best rugby memories we'll ever have. Your future is gonna be great and limp free.

On another point, I notice on the other forum that even the ones who are seemingly in the know on there are saying Hogg has been signed and that the Glasgow players were informed as such this morning at some point. That must have been one flippin early email.
Anyway, certain posters on there are rarely wrong, a little like Geoff on here but nowhere near as good.

Sin

Anscombe isn't a super rugby coach. I think Lam would have jumped at the chance to coach ulster, Humphreys or not. If you think humph signs players and Anscombe has no input I think you are massively wrong. Anscombe persuaded humph to get Williams after all.

I also think Luke Marshall has kicked on. He was rated as the top Irish centre in the HEC and probably didn't get the Ireland recognition due to D'arces familiarity with BOD as well as injury. I think Anscombe will go after this year and I think that's fair enough ( unless of course he manages an HEC or suchlike). Most coaches don't last more than 3/4 years.

Tough news on Ferris but it's better to know now than put himself through another rehab. Reported on other forums that Hogg is nearly a done deal too

I've heard from a few sources that Doak is being lined up to be the next coach, presumably from next season with Anscombe only getting a year.

Number of points to make - same Fact, or near as damn it, Credible rumour, Opinion.
Will try and cover in that order

FACT
Players out above - needs to include Macklin and Porter
Players in need to include a backrower who can play 7. This is a 100% certaintly but who it is I don't know.
Pienaer was nowhere near fit for the Leinster game
Best, Lutton, Diack were all less than 100%
Afoa's situation caused a lot of resentment (I mention this in Autumn). Most Ulster players glad to see the back of him
Anscombe applied for the Cardiff job
Humphreys only gave Anscombe one more year because he feared another McLoughlin dismissal farce.
Anscombe only given one more year because Ulster believed they could not get a top coach the year before a World Cup.  
Henderson will be playing 2nd row because Ireland want him there
Payne playing 13 because he has convinced Anscombe he is the man for the job - only two in the club who believe that.
Financially we are looking really good - extra ST's , mercandise sales have gone through the roof and we owe peanuts on the ground redevelopment

Credible rumour
Ferris to retire
Fitzpatrick could be joining him

Payne is not making himself popular with his insistance in playing 13 (he can see the vacancy for Ireland and wants it).
Anscombes public comments on this, and on other players, have not made him popular either
Humphreys position is not inhibiting Ulster getting a top coach.
Friction between Humphreys and Anscombe
Not inconceivable that Anscombe could agree to part company this year.
The Ludik move is on hold , or dead, because Ulster will sign a NIQ backrower if they cant get an IQ one. This means there is no NIQ slot left for another back. 7 is a priority over 15. If the 7 is IQ then the 15 could be NIQ - hence the Hogg rumour I believe.
Ryan was signed as a 3rd choice TH because the club realised Fitzpatrick's days could be numbered.
Murphy is not considered anything special and Black will be 1st choice next year
No new Hooker on the horizon

Opinion
I am worried about the team collective spirit - Humphreys, Anscombe and Payne situations are not healthy.
I beleive Humphreys has shown inexperience in handling the Anscombe situation.
He should have been brave enough to sack even if it meant Doak and Bell in charge for a year.
Having considered myself I have to say Anscombe has under performed as a coach - he should have done more with the talent involved.
The backrow is a grave concern - we have Diack, Wilson, Williams and Henry and thats it
The front row is significantly weaker next year.
The only reason Luke Marshall is perceived as having gone backwards is he has been mis managed by the coach
Given our serious lack of depth, loss of Muller's leadership, Anscombe as coach, and our 'nothing special' props I can't see us contenders next year

Herbst must be seriously poor if we have been burdened but the unhealthy Afoa situation all year and yet we will be massively weaker. I have your opinion part is being too negative Geoff.

I say it again but if Anscombe is not up to the job (and his time here may be viewed a failure) then Doaks name certainly shouldn't be in the mix.

Herbst could be good but it will take him time to learn.

We have lost Court, we have probably lost Fitzpatrick, we have lost Afoa (who was a good player when all said and done), we have lost Macklin, we have lost McAllister, we have lost Annett

We have gain Herbst, Murphy and Ryan - I do not see you can view those changes as anything other than a siginficant weakening of the front row.

Why shouldn't Doak's be in the mix ?

I get the feeling their is a sense of pulling in the wagons and relying on our own going forward.

With a handful of honoury Saffers of course - which given the analogy is appropriate   

Why the lack of support for Doak? Wouldnt Doak and Bell be a good coaching set up?

RE Luke Marshall - Mis managed by both Anscombe and Schmidt no?

I dont think Schmidt mis managed Marshall - he saw D'Arcy as his number one which is fair enough.

Marshall will get his chance in the summer

ME-109 wrote:Why the lack of support for Doak? Wouldnt Doak and Bell be a good coaching set up?

RE Luke Marshall - Mis managed by both Anscombe and Schmidt no?

why schmidt, surely d'arcy is the form player this year and marshall has had alot of issues with concussion

I think Darcy is seen by Schmidt as the no.1 the reason I say the mismanagement by Schmidt as well was the revolving door in the November intls and 6ns. I think he will play at least one game in the summer but I believe come November Darcy will be slotted back in.

geoff998rugby wrote:
We have gain Herbst, Murphy and Ryan - I do not see you can view those changes as anything other than a siginficant weakening of the front row.

I know for 100% fact that the club are not bringing in marquee players, or at least as many. They've expanded their coaching and development panel and the budget and strategy for bringing in top overseas players like Muller, Afoa is being phased out/stopped.

This is by design - forced or otherwise - and not through poor recruitment.

Same applies to the coaching - strategy was always to have an experienced SH coach for 3-4 years then promote from within. This might have changed but my understanding was that the only question was whether to give Anscombe one year or two based on the performances this year and the readiness of Clarke and Doak to take the helm.

To be clear Marshall has not had concussion issues this year it was last year.

He went of once, this year, under the concussion protocols but was given the all clear

The Boer Laagers could come in handy, lets face it the odd laager is never a bad thing

I am feeling my optimism eroding by the minute. Are we to endure an awful season next year? Perhaps some of these signings will actually turn out to be crackers, I mean in Dave we trust eh???

On he Luke Marshall point Geoff, I've hated seeing him being so mis-coached and used as a bosh merchant when the lad has so much more to offer in terms of skills and rugby brain.

I do hope we can fill some voids sooner rather than later. Who knows, a with the injury crisis this year it may force some real talent to be put on show from the academy.

Our backs are IMO less than the sum of their parts. Doak is our backs coach. I don't see how having underperformed in his specialised role he should be considered for the broader one.

Geoff those you mention as losses aren't as significant as we have done without them already.

Court has been displaced by Black IMO anyway and Murphy and Warwick provide depth here.
Herbst replacing Afoa is something we have to take on faith but we have him all year round and 100% focused which will hopefully recompense us for a drop in quality
Mcallister hasn't played in two years and Fitz is permanently unavailable. With Lutton, Ryan and at a push Warwick covering TH I don't think we are significantly weaker.

There is an element of the unknown (particularly with Herbst) but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

On Marshall, I don't think his form was bad at all and he stood up and delivered against Scotland. Schmidts preference was for D'arcy and BOD but the latter is gone now and despite bedding in a new 13 this summer he has left D'arce out. Brilliant chance for him

Standulstermen wrote:Our backs are IMO less than the sum of their parts. Doak is our backs coach. I don't see how having underperformed in his specialised role he should be considered for the broader one.

He's being fast tracked by the IRFU along with Foley so he must have something about him. Not sure if the emerging Ireland tour team has been announced but wouldn't be surprised to see Doak on the coaching panel.

He is Rodders and he does appear to be rated. I don't see it. Of our coaches the one area I think we have excelled in in defence under. Jonny Bell.

geoff998rugby wrote:
The Ludik move is on hold , or dead, because Ulster will sign a NIQ backrower if they cant get an IQ one. This means there is no NIQ slot left for another back. 7 is a priority over 15. If the 7 is IQ then the 15 could be NIQ - hence the Hogg rumour I believe.

Thats a lot of ifs and buts towards the end of May...

Geoff, you speak of trying to source an IQ backrow. In my mind we need to source about 3! We need to source at least 5-8 more IQs for our squad to be good enough.

Is it Ulster Rugby's plan to be so wafer thin??

Clive we will be using academy guys going forward. Joyce, Dow, Taggart are three backrowers you could add as well as trying to sign another one or two backrowers.

We aren't Toulon and we won't have 5 players for each position

I don't see it either - actually it all comes across a bit jobs for the boys stand but I suppose you have to have some faith that they know what they are doing.

My feeling is McLaughlin is the guy with the vision but he's been marginalised a bit, albeit into an important role.

I don't want to create false rumours but don't get the impression that the academy coaches know what they are doing.... or that they are on the same wavelength with McLaughlin.

Actually is BM gone now? Seems to have been a bit of restructuring in the domestic panel:-

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/domestic/Branch/DomesticStaffList.

Haven't a clue about that side of things Rodders. Also on another of Geoffs points. If the irfu are insisting on Henderson at lock then   

I think they have that one spot on

Standulstermen wrote:Clive we will be using academy guys going forward. Joyce, Dow, Taggart are three backrowers you could add as well as trying to sign another one or two backrowers.

We aren't Toulon and we won't have 5 players for each position

Stand - we barely have five players for the whole back row - I'm happy enough with academy players being used IF they are at the required standard. All too often, we've used academy players because we've been forced to, and we've had to play them in our league games (which we need to win) only to properly test them.

Unfortunately we have no league that fully tells us if they are capable of the step up. So we have to play them in the Rabo, or during injury crisis - and half the time this only informs us that they are lacking. So we decide to ship them off at the end of the season, meanwhile they may have costed us a result or two.

You say Joyce, Dow, Taggart - truth is, we have absolutely no idea if they will be Ian Hendersons or Ali Birches... and we will have to risk league game results to find out.

clivemcl wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
The Ludik move is on hold , or dead, because Ulster will sign a NIQ backrower if they cant get an IQ one. This means there is no NIQ slot left for another back. 7 is a priority over 15. If the 7 is IQ then the 15 could be NIQ - hence the Hogg rumour I believe.

Thats a lot of ifs and buts towards the end of May...

Geoff, you speak of trying to source an IQ backrow. In my mind we need to source about 3! We need to source at least 5-8 more IQs for our squad to be good enough.

Is it Ulster Rugby's plan to be so wafer thin??

If you know names let Humph know.

The have to be IQ, wanting to play here , fulfil a gap we have, and also want to stay - look at Doyle has a decent year and leaves.
There really are not that many options.
We simply have to get players coming through the ranks if we want to sustain a competitive team in the long term

Doak may be the backs coach but Anscombe is THE coach.
One overalls the other - the way Marshall is handled is an example of that.

It's about how you use them Clive. By the way I fully expect at least one more Backrow signing and possibly two if the ferris retiring reports are true.

Back to my original point. If we were to put out a Backrow of mccomish, taggart and Williams I would be worried but if we used them sensibly (and the coaches need to do this more) and integrate young guys into strong backrows then it will help their development.

Geoff

I am not canvassing for Anscombe to be given an extension or anything of the sort. I am merely saying I don't think Doak is the answer. We had a similar conversation when McLaughlin was in charge that he was stifling what Doak wanted to do. It's hard for me to believe Doak would have signed on again if a similar thing was happening.

clivemcl wrote:Unfortunately we have no league that fully tells us if they are capable of the step up. So we have to play them in the Rabo, or during injury crisis - and half the time this only informs us that they are lacking. So we decide to ship them off at the end of the season, meanwhile they may have costed us a result or two.

You say Joyce, Dow, Taggart - truth is, we have absolutely no idea if they will be Ian Hendersons or Ali Birches... and we will have to risk league game results to find out.

Clive I answered this numerous times. The standard AIL and lack of Ulster top level representation is not the fault of Anscombe or the professional coaches. Its not even the fault of the academy who are getting forwards in that have no scrimmaging experience and can't lift properly in the lineout.

You have to look at the bigger picture when addressing these things. This will take years to change but there is a strategy in place. In the meantime people need to be patient and realistic because we have been spoiled in recent years with the quality of the players we have bought in.

Going forwards we'll see more NIE qualified journeymen type signings used in conjunction with home grown players. Over time hopefully the development strategy will produce more talent and depth but it won't happen overnight.