Ulster 2014/2015

First topic message reminder :

Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...

We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

Seems to tie with what Geoff said to me - obviously there was some sticking point with Hogg and terms couldn't be agreed or Ludik was the preferred option - either way we're sorted now.

Any truth in Payne going south in return for Jack McGrath?

Can't see McGrath coming north rodders, he was one of about 20 players that signed new contract about a month ago. Unless things have changed quickly I doubt they'd have announced it if it was going to happen

Better signing for the club than Hogg but where does that leave us with the back row options? Which IQs do you think we are after?

Im really, really hoping the rumours about Brendan O'Connor are true.

We've signed Charlie Butterworth from Lansdowne, he's meant to be very talented but there are too many back rows in Leinster for him to break through. Ireland Club international. He's an open side.

What comes next may depend on Ferris, if he makes any kind of recovery he'll probably never play for Ireland again. He retires it'll free up money in the kitty to sign at least one half decent IQ back row

I think we should treat Ferris as a bonus player. i.e. Trying and get two guys for every position, don't include Ferris in that tally because there is no guarantee he'll be available for even 10% of games if he is fit

Have to say I am a bit gutted having Ludik instead of Hogg. Ludik looks the sensible option, but I had been daydreaming of Hoggs counter attacking and joining the Ulster backine with his awesome. I reckon he would have been a gem for us unlocking big team defences like Leinster.
On the plus side Ludik seems more like backup for Payne than a replacement for him at 15, so hopefully Payne won't play as much at 13 for us... He has been really average there - a poor selection

I'm the opposite Toml. I'm delighted it's Ludik instead of Hogg. The other won't be around during internationals yet still gives me the feint hope that Payne could move back if needed. One thing is certain that we don't lack depth in the backline. Backrow is wildly different though

Crudely speaking from a highlights reel I live the look of him as regards directness and positioning. I think he looks marginally better in the tackle than Payne. Not certain his offloading or distribution is anything special but his work under the high ball looks decent. Need to see how he goes but a lot will be judged on the 13 channel.

I see where you're coming from, but it's not the outside backs I worry about during the international windows... I worry about their cutting edge during the biggest games. I meant to say Hoggs awesome pace above, I think it would be a real asset.
Anyway we have the players in the backs... It's the attacking patterns that need work. You are right about the backrow, 2 ageing 8s, 1 top 7 a solid utility 6 and that's about it cos Stevie may not be up to it and Hendy in the row.

I agree with your second paragraph, we have the backs in situ and I'm wholly unconvinced it's the players fault as regards the cutting edge. Geoff suggested (and I'm not saying I know more) it's Anscombe inhibiting Doak but I have heard that excuse one too many times for Doak. Ludik at least looks like he will run it straight and commit the defence.

toml wrote:Have to say I am a bit gutted having Ludik instead of Hogg. Ludik looks the sensible option, but I had been daydreaming of Hoggs counter attacking and joining the Ulster backine with his awesome. I reckon he would have been a gem for us unlocking big team defences like Leinster.
On the plus side Ludik seems more like backup for Payne than a replacement for him at 15, so hopefully Payne won't play as much at 13 for us... He has been really average there - a poor selection

Agree with most of that. If Ulster were going to sign a NIQ full back then the younger and better quality player should have been the pick. Of course maybe Hogg just didn't want to come in the end.

As for Payne at 13 it's way too soon to pass judgement. It's ironic that some of those who are writing him off at 13 for Ulster are also saying that Cave hasn't had enough chances for Ireland.

I don't know what it is about Payne's performance at 13 in an Ulster shirt that looks so average when he was so outstanding there for the BluesXV teams of the season at 13. The fact that there is a different team dynamic at Ulster may be a factor but I do know he can be absolutely electric at outside centre. I think he's also been carrying an injury but hey, time will tell.

Anyhow I am a little like toml about the Ludik signing, a little conflicted on how to feel. Ludik looks to be a great, physical option at 15 so happy days. It's just that Hogg is a stand-out player with game changing qualities and like toml I had been doing some daydreaming about what he could do to defences (Hogg not toml)
I'm still more than happy with Ludik though, now for a couple more big fellas and I would like to donate a knee or ankle or anything Ferris needs to get another season out of him.

Haha Pete, brought back down to earth with a bang

I too am happier its Ludik and not Hogg.

During internationals and the irish team get togethers, we could be missing, Payne, Cave, Marshall, Bowe, Trimble and Gilroy (All the backs).

Thats a lot to be missing, and even if all are not called up its better to have Ludik there, than have Hogg called away also.

Yeah, I would have also liked to see what Hogg could do with our back line but I'd rather we spent the money on our pack. We already have loads of flair in the backs.

If Ludik is cheaper and available for more games its better business all round.

Hogg may have been away during Test windows, but he would have been available for the really big games. It belies a startling lack of ambition from some fans who would rather have a squad level player than a Test quality player to boost the strongest team.
From the figures mentioned earlier Hogg wouldn't have been any more expensive, so maybe Stuart just wanted to go elsewhere. I know for certain that Humphreys is ambitious and would have landed him if he could.

Hah! Startling lack of ambition...

Let me tell you something. The top European competition seeding is now based on league performance for one season only. Ulster drop down two seeding rungs next year because of this. The only way to be sure of being a top seed is to win your league. We've seen once again the massive role home advantage has played in the playoffs in both competitions. We might well be up against it to secure a home draw next year or even qualify due to our low seeding, which is due to inconsistency in the league especially when one or two key players are out.

Now go and look up how many sides have won the European Cup from being in the third tier of seedings in their group.

He won't be available for all the big games, because they are all big games now. Away to Zebre with loads of guys missing could be the difference between a group of death and a good path to the final. The path to success is now fundamentally different. You have to succeed in the league first to set up a run at the European Cup. The days of eggs in one basket and dead and gone. If you really have ambition you need to target every single game.

The sticking point was the fee due to Glasgow/SRU I believe which is additional to wages. But it's besides the point. What we need to do is less investment in big name signings and more efforts to get depth into our squad to squash that inconsistency. A player who is not available through international windows is a bad investment in the depth stakes.

In fairness Aukster you need the good squad players too otherwise you won't reach the big games, although I'd rather have Hogg

Ulster lost one game in the International windows and six outside of that - Injuries notwithstanding, Hogg would have been available for those six and Ludik would have been available for all seven. Which player is more likely to make the difference to Ulster's season?

With the departures of Afoa, Court, Muller and Wallace (and the continuing absence of Ferris), Ulster is losing a shed load of Test cap experience and the only redress is the singularly capped Van der Merwe coming in. Murphy, Herbst and Ludik may all be good players and they will be all available during the International windows - whoopee doo - but it's the other 90% of the season that concerns me.

Even though a player like Pienaar misses some games due to call-ups, he often makes the difference when he is at Ulster. Those are the players that Ulster need more of.

The way Glasgow melted down in the second half yesterday just goes to show what an unbelievable missed opportunity this season was... we would have had them, the occasion got to them.

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster lost one game in the International windows and six outside of that - Injuries notwithstanding, Hogg would have been available for those six and Ludik would have been available for all seven. Which player is more likely to make the difference to Ulster's season?

With the departures of Afoa, Court, Muller and Wallace (and the continuing absence of Ferris), Ulster is losing a shed load of Test cap experience and the only redress is the singularly capped Van der Merwe coming in. Murphy, Herbst and Ludik may all be good players and they will be all available during the International windows - whoopee doo - but it's the other 90% of the season that concerns me.

Even though a player like Pienaar misses some games due to call-ups, he often makes the difference when he is at Ulster. Those are the players that Ulster need more of.

You're being very hard on Ludik I think. He's a really good player, Aukster, and could be a great signing for Ulster. Time will tell, and time you should allow.

Personally I'm slightly happier with Ludik signing as he should be available for more games than Hogg. My gripe is that we have used our only NIQ spot to sign a back when I think we are more in need of a backrow signing, but then maybe we will get a very good SH IQ signing anyway. My other gripe is that with Ludik signing, and Payne now definitely remaining, it means that Ulster are determined to push on with Payne at 13.

Notch wrote:The way Glasgow melted down in the second half yesterday just goes to show what an unbelievable missed opportunity this season was... we would have had them, the occasion got to them.

No need to rub it in, squire. That was as badly as we'd played in 10 games. Literally.

Sorry GC. There's a reason why I wouldn't post it in the match thread or on the Glasgow thread.

Think it's true though, in terms of Cup Finals Leinster are a cut above and we had them exactly where we wanted them in the semi-final and let them get away with it. Glasgow wouldn't have had the same composure they kept when we had them under the cosh. They panicked very quickly when things went against them.

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster lost one game in the International windows and six outside of that - Injuries notwithstanding, Hogg would have been available for those six and Ludik would have been available for all seven. Which player is more likely to make the difference to Ulster's season?

With the departures of Afoa, Court, Muller and Wallace (and the continuing absence of Ferris), Ulster is losing a shed load of Test cap experience and the only redress is the singularly capped Van der Merwe coming in. Murphy, Herbst and Ludik may all be good players and they will be all available during the International windows - whoopee doo - but it's the other 90% of the season that concerns me.

Even though a player like Pienaar misses some games due to call-ups, he often makes the difference when he is at Ulster. Those are the players that Ulster need more of.

Aukster how many bonus points did Ulster pick up in those wins? Thats often a big failing for Ulster in the international windows, against the Zebres and Trevisos we can win without the big names but at times they are all too close and lacking in tries. Leinster topped the table thanks to their bonus points

If you consider we lost the first two games when international guys were being managed back either from the lions tour, Ireland tour or emerging Ireland and the disruption there we also lost more than one as a result of international windows. Who knows what terms Hogg would be looking for as regards safeguarding his international ambitions.

If (as seems the case) he is leaving Glasgow under something of a cloud then I fail to see why we would break the bank for him

Stand U - I'm not at all unhappy with Ludik - he is a good player. What I'm saying is that given a choice between him and Hogg, those going for Ludik show a lack of ambition.

As for the start of the season being affected by call-ups, I'd still rather have Bowe, Best and Pienaar in the squad than not. The more top class players there are in the squad the more chance there is that they will be available for the majority of the games. Ulster should have beaten Glasgow easily (even the Warriors didn't know how they won that one), but at least Ulster could plan for the absentees. It was the losses at the end of the season that killed Ulster when too many of their top class players were missing and there just weren't enough left to carry the team.

Whether Ulster had to "break the bank" for Hogg or not is irrelevant. All we know is that some fans prefer Ludik over Hogg because he is available for a few more games. Never mind the quality feel the width.

Well quality is a relative term and Hoggs youth, whilst an asset can also be detrimental for a number of reasons. He won't be able to mentor the likes of Nelson, (possibly Olding) and Gilroy in a way that Ludik will from his experience. Also being so young his form can very wildly which we have seen this season after the lions tour. Not suggesting he isn't as good as made out but at that age everything is a bit of a gamble.

I perhaps didn't word the above correctly. My point is that Ludik can bring something different to what Hogg can. There are positives and potential negatives attached to both signings. As i mentioned quality is a relative term. It's hard to judge Ludik by NH standards and certainly in Pro12/HEC standards because he hasn't played at that level.

If there were (and I'm not saying there are) any concerns regarding Hoggs temperament or behaviour then it's not really a tough call

Standulstermen wrote:I agree with your second paragraph, we have the backs in situ and I'm wholly unconvinced it's the players fault as regards the cutting edge. Geoff suggested (and I'm not saying I know more) it's Anscombe inhibiting Doak but I have heard that excuse one too many times for Doak. Ludik at least looks like he will run it straight and commit the defence.

Need to clarify this one.

Anscombe insists of the first phase Marshall up the middle bish bosh play
The rest of the back moves are mainly down to Doak.

So if the criticism is of back play in general then it is fair to lay at Doaks door but if the criticism is the repeated use of Marshall in that way then blame Anscombe not Doak Anscombe makes that call.

The Great Aukster wrote: As for Payne at 13 it's way too soon to pass judgement. It's ironic that some of those who are writing him off at 13 for Ulster are also saying that Cave hasn't had enough chances for Ireland.

Whose writing him off ?

All I am saying and suspect so are others is he has not done enough, yet, to warrant being Ulster no1 13.
When he does put in perforamnces to warrant it he should be first choice.

As to Ireland and Cave very different situation - we have one of the greats in situ for over a decades and now the position is vacant.
Cave has consistantly been the second best 13 in Irish rugby for a number of years and as such deserves his chance.
Never want players to be injured but I have to say I am delighted, at one level, he is the only 13 worthy of the label in the Irish touring party.
He should get two games now to showcase his abilities which as I have said before if he shines it will put the cat among the pigeons at both Provincial and International level for the 13 shirt.

Regarding Hogg it does seem clear Ulster approached Hogg not, as previously thought, the other way round.

It appears events played out as follows:
Ulster approach Ludik - Ludik either dithered because of Agen having a chance to get promoted or asked for too much.
As a result Ulster approached Hogg but the insistance on compensation from Glasgow/ SRU was something Ulster were not prepared to pay.
Agen didn't get promoted.
Ludik and Ulster reopened talks not sure who initiated.
Basically Ulster were now in a position of two players interested in joining.
The compensation appears to have been the deal breaker regarding signing Hogg - heard figures as high as 150,000 mentioned which seems a bit strange given his salary for the year was a reported 90,000.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:I agree with your second paragraph, we have the backs in situ and I'm wholly unconvinced it's the players fault as regards the cutting edge. Geoff suggested (and I'm not saying I know more) it's Anscombe inhibiting Doak but I have heard that excuse one too many times for Doak. Ludik at least looks like he will run it straight and commit the defence.

Need to clarify this one.

Anscombe insists of the first phase Marshall up the middle bish bosh play
The rest of the back moves are mainly down to Doak.

So if the criticism is of back play in general then it is fair to lay at Doaks door but if the criticism is the repeated use of Marshall in that way then blame Anscombe not Doak Anscombe makes that call.

Quite a lot of the top sides use a similar tactic off first phase to tie in the opposition backrow so I wouldn't be critical of that. A common issue I see with Ulster is being over elaborate with the offloads and poor handling from L Marshall, Cave, Williams and Bowe in particular often squandering good attacking opportunities rather than any lack of ambition of predictability.

On Marshall, did anyone read the interview with Shontayne Hape about his head injuries and why he quit the game? Frightening stuff and couldn't help thinking about the repeated concussions Marshall suffered last year when reading it.....

Right folks, now the backs are complete, we may as well do the inevitable and start speculating about our backline for the coming season!

Crazy to think that players like iHump, Luke Marshall, Cave, Gilroy could potentially miss out on matchday 22s completely...

We have :

Marshall, Peinaar, Jackson, iHumph, Marshal (L), Olding, Cave, Payne, Trimble, Bowe, Ludik, Gilroy (12 players for 8/9 match day shirts)

And where does this leave McCloskey, Allen, Andrew, O'Hagan? They will be lucky to see a bench spot only a few times in the season - unless theres another injury crisis, or Anscombe makes some brave slection decisions...

For me -

9 Pienaar
10 Jackson
11 Trimble
12 Olding
13 Payne
14 Bowe
15 Ludik

Subs: P Marshall, iHumph, Cave

With that selection, all your versatility is on the pitch. Ludik, Payne, Olding can all switch around covering a lot if injuries in the back three. So Cave on bench covering 12/13.

Luke and Craig miss out.

I don't envy Anscombe...

Regarding the reason we took Ludik not Hogg

1 - Cheaper. As I have posted elsewhere Ireland are cutting back across the board in terms of salaries payed to NIQ players. This is necessary to have sufficient money to keep IQ players in Ireland. When their contracts are up - Jackson, Marshall, Henderson, Olding and Gilroy will all be looking for considerable increases - we need to have the resources available to pay them whether through Central or Provincial contracts.

2 - Available more. Whilst it is true we have won most of our International window fixtures in recent years lets be hones we have been both awful and lucky in a number of those matches. That luck will not last for ever.  

3- The changes to the European competition. As Notch said the league is now important than before. Going forward focus will be more even between it and the European Cup. The reality finishing as high as possible is key. Also we have only qualified easily bewcause the Welsh have been cr$p - if Roger Lewis is kicked out that could change and qualifying will be harder. We need more players available to make that happen and going forward we are going to lose a lot of backs during the International windows. Munster for example have recognised a need to put more focus on the league going forward.

4 - More experienced and as such could help the likes of Nelson, Andrew and Gilroy develop in a way Hogg cant

5 - Temperament. I can accept Hogg deserves to treated fairly but there have been enough stories to be wary.

clivemcl wrote:Right folks, now the backs are complete, we may as well do the inevitable and start speculating about our backline for the coming season!

For me:-

9 Pienaar
10 Jackson
11 Bowe
12 Cave/McCloskey
13 Payne/ Olding
14 Trimble
15 Ludik/Gilroy / Payne

Bench: Marshall, IHumph, Olding/Cave

Players under most pressure with new signings  - L Marshall and Craig Gilroy.

My turn - I dont care what Payne wants our best backline is

Pienaer
Jackson
Bowe
Olding
Cave
Trimble
Payne

Bench:
Marshall
Marshall
Ludik

Gilroy and iHumph miss out - Olding first choice cover for 10


With Jackson, Olding/Marshall, Cave, Bowe, Trimble, Payne with Ireland

Pienaer
iHumph
Gilroy
2 from Olding/Marshall/McCloskey
Allen
Ludik

Bench
Marshall
O'Hagan
Scholes

None of the suggested first choice back lines look too shabby - reason for optimism if our forwards are able to produce clean ball.

I know he gets mixed reviews from Ulster fans - but I am pretty happy to see iHump return. It will not surprise me if Jackson spends a bit more time on the bench than previously. To be honest - over the past year he has been the only "10" at the club. I liked McKinney - and would love to have seen him get a few more chances - but he wasn't fancied. Numerous occasions when the bench was cleared except for McKinney...

Anyhow - my point is that iHump has not come back to accept a backup role. I believe it will be good for Jackson - and for all of the flaws that fans see in iHump - he can get a back line moving.

Now - let us all hope that the forwards can gel as a new unit - and produce the ball.

Posted by honoury ulster fan Sine () on the other thread - http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/matt-o-connor-knows-leinster-need-overseas-aid-for-european-crusade-1.1816999

O'Connor rules out Payne going south so that's that one to bed anyways....  

Any chance of Jared Payne coming down? “No. He is contracted, I think it is a two-year deal up there.”

But maybe the 13 conundrum has been solved. In 2004 Gordon D’Arcy was the best outside centre in Europe only for a fit-again O’Driscoll to shoehorn him into the 12 jersey.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:I agree with your second paragraph, we have the backs in situ and I'm wholly unconvinced it's the players fault as regards the cutting edge. Geoff suggested (and I'm not saying I know more) it's Anscombe inhibiting Doak but I have heard that excuse one too many times for Doak. Ludik at least looks like he will run it straight and commit the defence.

Need to clarify this one.

Anscombe insists of the first phase Marshall up the middle bish bosh play
The rest of the back moves are mainly down to Doak.

So if the criticism is of back play in general then it is fair to lay at Doaks door but if the criticism is the repeated use of Marshall in that way then blame Anscombe not Doak Anscombe makes that call.

I would take issue with both those things Geoff and if Anscombe is responsible for turning Marshall into a bosher he needs a slap. (Btw I still think Marshall has more to his game). Didn't humph stop Marshall from leaving during the McLaughlin days?

As for my preferred backline

Pienaar
Jackson
Trimble
Marshall
Olding
Bowe
Payne

A scrum half, iHumph, Ludik  

In fairness the bench is bloody hard to call so it would be horses for courses. In an attacking sense I like the idea of Olding/Payne at centre but I'm not convinced defensively

Am I getting mixed up with Hogg, but for some reason it's in my head that Ludik can cover out-half. I'm not sure if I hear that somewhere or if i'm getting confused.

I'm pretty certain Pienaar has finally said thats enough with the 10 shirt - expect to see iHumph on the bench every week.

What I'm most concerned about is that we mishandle the talent that is Olding. We're somewhat mishandling Luke Marshall. Hope Luke gets two tests in Argentina to show he's more than a brick wall bosher.

Sounds like D'arcy is going to play in the 13 jersey next season - so Marshall and Cave may be fighting it out for the Irish inside centre spot....

Well what will Schmidt do when Olding proves to be the best 12 of the lot - which I think he will   

Everyones wants to see a little something different it seems from the backline next year, what is clear is, injury, suspension and internationals permitting, that we have an abundance of talent and we should use it vary our game plan a bit more next year.

The idea of Olding and Payne in the centre with Gilroy at full back could be quite a potent attacking threat in the right game but defensively maybe not so strong but in the right game could be the right option.

I think Schmidt is looking for D'arces replacement now Rodders. If he has a great next season that will be food for thought but really a large part of D'arces selection was his experience of playing alongside BOD which is no longer relevant. If D'arce is selected it will be because none of the youngsters have stepped up

Standulstermen wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:I agree with your second paragraph, we have the backs in situ and I'm wholly unconvinced it's the players fault as regards the cutting edge. Geoff suggested (and I'm not saying I know more) it's Anscombe inhibiting Doak but I have heard that excuse one too many times for Doak. Ludik at least looks like he will run it straight and commit the defence.

Need to clarify this one.

Anscombe insists of the first phase Marshall up the middle bish bosh play
The rest of the back moves are mainly down to Doak.

So if the criticism is of back play in general then it is fair to lay at Doaks door but if the criticism is the repeated use of Marshall in that way then blame Anscombe not Doak Anscombe makes that call.

I would take issue with both those things Geoff and if Anscombe is responsible for turning Marshall into a bosher he needs a slap. (Btw I still think Marshall has more to his game). Didn't humph stop Marshall from leaving during the McLaughlin days?

Honestly don't know but McLaughlin was responsible for some serious mishandling of players notably Faloon, Diack and McIlwaine

Standulstermen wrote:I think Schmidt is looking for D'arces replacement now Rodders. If he has a great next season that will be food for thought but really a large part of D'arces selection was his experience of playing alongside BOD which is no longer relevant. If D'arce is selected it will be because none of the youngsters have stepped up

Don't agree atand, D'arcy is one of Schmidt's undroppables - I can see him playing until 2016 to be honest. I wouldn't pick him but can see Schmidt sticking with him.

geoff998rugby wrote:Well what will Schmidt do when Olding proves to be the best 12 of the lot - which I think he will   

Pick him at 13?.....

geoff998rugby wrote: Credible rumour
Ferris to retire
Fitzpatrick could be joining him

To quote myself from a couple of weeks back some on the other board seem to think the former is to be made public in the next 24 hours