Ulster 2014/2015

First topic message reminder :

Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...

We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

It's still a strong looking squad by any standards. No squad is perfect and I think that if you're worried about the quality of 2nd/3rd understudies you're in a fairly good place.

clivemcl wrote:The time has come whether by design, or poor fortune - we will never know, but this is these season where we test the final part of the plan. Have our IQs developed to the point where they can do the job with less NIQ stars? Pienaar now is the only real NIQ superstar on our books. The other NIQs are not even guaranteed starters.

Hebst is a guaranteed starter and I would be amazed if Ludik and der Merwe are not as well

Ludik isn't, in that it's very possible Payne won't be able to get in at 13 and will fall back to 15 or the coaches will just decide we need him at 15. Not likely but certainly possible if a fair selection policy is used. Herbst, van der Merwe and Pienaar look like certain starters.

Also, if Payne does make the team that doesn't suddenly make him not an import because of a very dubious process of naturalisation. He and Diack are still signings that we've brought in from abroad and them being able to be 'Irish' doesn't suddenly mean we can boast of producing these great Irish qualified players. He may no longer be an NIQ star but he's still a star player we've had to bring in from outside the province; we're still relying on outside signings to bolster the squad whether they are capped foreign players or uncapped ones who qualify on residency. If we're assessing the goal of IQs developing to the point where they can do the job we should focus on our own academy graduates and players who have come to us at a young age. There's still a very long way to go on this count.

If you look at our strongest XV for next year;

1. Callum Black (import)
2. Rory Best (homegrown)
3. Wiehahn Herbst (import)
4. Iain Henderson (homegrown)
5. Franco van der Merwe (import)
6. Robbie Diack (import)
7. Chris Henry (homegrown)
8. Nick Williams (import)
9. Ruan Pienaar (import)
10. Paddy Jackson (homegrown)
11. Tommy Bowe (homegrown)
12. Stuart Olding (homegrown)
13. Jared Payne (import)
14. Andrew Trimble (homegrown)
15. Louis Ludik (import)

16. Rob Herring (import) 17. Andrew Warwick (homegrown) 18. Ricky Lutton (homegrown) 19. Dan Tuohy (import) 20. Roger Wilson (homegrown) 21. Paul Marshall (homegrown) 22. Ian Humphreys (homegrown) 23. Craig Gilroy (homegrown)

Then the majority of the first team still came from outside the province- now, thats no bad thing if you take a narrow view on it just being about winning (just look at Toulon) and- our duty to produce players for the national team aside- I would rather support that team winning stuff than a wholly homegrown team struggling. There are enough homegrown players that we have a clear identity and enough quality players being brought in that we can actually hold onto our better homegrown players. But we simply lack the ability to be competitive without these signings. The Academy and club structures can't produce the quality needed yet. Serious work needs to be done on increasing the quantity and quality of our talent pool and we're moving in the right direction. But the end stage of Project Humphreys that Humphreys never saw through to the end- because he never believed in the possibility even as he talked about it?- was always to be able to produce a team of that quality or higher than was almost entirely homegrown.

We're entering phase two were more responsibility transfers to homegrown leaders but we haven't entered the next phase where the star players are almost all homegrown and that still looks like its a long, long way off.

clivemcl wrote:The time has come whether by design, or poor fortune - we will never know, but this is these season where we test the final part of the plan.

Actually last season was the final season in 3 year plan next season being season 1 of another 3 year rebuilding phase.

Logan spoke about it recently and according to some reports it was Humph's reluctance to go through another lengthy phase of rebuilding, along with insecurities about his own position next year that was a big part of him leaving.

Notch wrote:But the end stage of Project Humphreys that Humphreys never saw through to the end- because he never believed in the possibility even as he talked about it?- was always to be able to produce a team of that quality or higher than was almost entirely homegrown.

We're entering phase two were more responsibility transfers to homegrown leaders but we haven't entered the next phase where the star players are almost all homegrown and that still looks like its a long, long way off.

I don't think there was ever an indication that this would be achieved any time soon.
We have one starter in the U-20's this year, that gives some indication of the scale of work to achieve this.

You are probably looking 10 years down the line to get to that point.

It depends on whether you are using it as a measuring stick for our rugby system as a whole or not.

And whilst that is the ultimate goal. I do think that having IQs (even if imported) is a fair enough in between step.

If we are talking about our contribution to the national system, then we are certainly improving.

1. Callum Black (IQ)
2. Rory Best (IQ)
3. Wiehahn Herbst (NIQ)
4. Iain Henderson (IQ)
5. Franco van der Merwe (NIQ)
6. Robbie Diack (IQ)
7. Chris Henry (IQ)
8. Nick Williams (NIQ)
9. Ruan Pienaar (NIQ)
10. Paddy Jackson (IQ)
11. Tommy Bowe (IQ)
12. Stuart Olding (IQ)
13. Jared Payne (IQ)
14. Andrew Trimble (IQ)
15. Louis Ludik (NIQ)

16. Rob Herring (IQ) 17. Andrew Warwick (IQ) 18. Ricky Lutton (IQ) 19. Dan Tuohy (IQ) 20. Roger Wilson (IQ) 21. Paul Marshall (IQ) 22. Ian Humphreys (IQ) 23. Craig Gilroy (IQ)


And (I may be wrong) all those IQs have been in the senior irish squad at one point bar Lutton who has been in the emerging squad.

Edit: oh, and Warwick.

The long term success will come from the work being done with the under 20's.

We have something like 200-250 youngsters on individually managed programs.
That will how we achieve a higher % of home grown talent.

As mentioned earlier local soccer teams are complaining because more kids in this age bracket are taking up rugby than soccer.

I would not given any crediance to aged Ireland sides - they have been loaded with ordinary players from Leinster at the expense of the other Provinces for years.

I do think Ludik is a starter because our coach has talked about Payne being 13.
I dont think he should be but the words of Anscombe suggest he is.
I also think Wilson is ahead of Williams

I don't personally want to see these NIQ signings being nailed on. Its fair enough to say that they probably will be, but personally I hope that Olding/Marshall/Cave are so good that Ludik gets squeezed out.
I also hope that Tuohy and Henderson are so good that VDM gets squeezed out. And Warwick squeezes out Herbst. And that Wilson continues to justify his position over Williams. Here's hoping!

http://lovebelfast.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/ulster-rugby-players-need-your-mascot-designs/?utm_content=buffera5f8f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Ulster Rugby looking for new mascot. Let's do it lads. How about a... Raven? Possibhly on some sort of Hill.   

By comparison, who would Leinster's non-homegrown players be?

Cronin, Strauss, Ross, Kane, McCarthy, Reddan, Boss, Gopperth, Kirchner and now possibly this league convert. Ten imports, same amount, although Kirchner and the new guy may not be in the first 23. But then, Payne is not objectively one of our best centres.

Less for Munster - Botha, one of CJ Stander or Copeland, Dougall, Keatley, the centres, one of Jones or Conway.

Don Leinster;

1. Cian Healy (homegrown)
2. Sean Cronin (import)
3. Mike Ross (import)
4. Kane Douglas (import)
5. Devin Toner (homegrown)
6. Rhys Ruddock (homegrown)
7. Sean O'Brien (homegrown)
8. Jamie Heaslip (homegrown)
9. Eoin Reddan (import)
10. Jimmy Gopperth (import)
11. Zane Kirchner (import)
12. Noel Reid (homegrown)
13. Gordon D'Arcy (homegrown)
14. Fergus McFadden (homegrown)
15. Rob Kearney (homegrown)

16. Richardt Strauss (import) 17. Jack McGrath (homegrown) 18. Martin Moore (homegrown) 19. Mike McCarthy (import) 20. Jordi Murphy (homegrown) 21. Isaac Boss (import) 22. Ian Madigan (homegrown) 23. Dave Kearney (homegrown)

No Strauss?

Munster;

1. Dave Kilcoyne (homegrown)
2. Damien Varley (homegrown)
3. BJ Botha (import)
4. Dave Foley (homegrown)
5. Paul O'Connell (homegrown)
6. Peter O'Mahony (homegrown)
7. Sean Dougall (import)
8. Robin Copeland (import)
9. Conor Murray (homegrown)
10. Ian Keatley (import)
11. Simon Zebo (homegrown)
12. Tyler Bleyendaal (import)
13. Keith Earls (homegrown)
14. Gerard van den Heever (import)
15. Felix Jones (import)

16. Duncan Casey (homegrown) 17. James Cronin (homegrown) 18. John Ryan (homegrown) 19. Donncha O'Callaghan (homegrown) 20. Tommy O'Donnell (homegrown) 21. Duncan Williams (homegrown) 22. JJ Hanrahan (homegrown) 23. Andrew Smith (import)

Just my take on what the strongest teams are. Rotation and injuries mean those teams may never take to the pitch together!

Don Alfonso wrote:No Strauss?

Yeah sorry about that. I'll edit him in.

clivemcl wrote:I don't personally want to see these NIQ signings being nailed on. Its fair enough to say that they probably will be, but personally I hope that Olding/Marshall/Cave are so good that Ludik gets squeezed out.
I also hope that Tuohy and Henderson are so good that VDM gets squeezed out. And Warwick squeezes out Herbst. And that Wilson continues to justify his position over Williams. Here's hoping!

Sounds more like dreaming to me
There is no way on this earth Warwick will be picked at TH in preference to Herbst
If you think Cave/Marshall/Olding will squeeze Ludik out by forcing Payne to 15 means you have not been listening to Payne/Schmidt or Anscombe talking these past few weeks.
When all backrowers were fit Williams made the team this year -usually with Wilson at 6
Far more likely Tuohy an Henderson will be head to head than der Merwe being squeezed out

So basically you may not like it but the odds are 5 NIQ players will make the starting XV

clive, for me once they are in the squad I don't mind where they come from. I'm just doing this whole import/homegrown thing to gauge where our Academies are at and how close we are to getting that self-sufficiency ratio up. I doubt any team can be entirely self-sufficient and be really successful- we'd be picking from nine counties, Mourad Boudjellal uses the Rugby Championship as a feeder tournament- but it'll certainly be possible to mount an assault on the Pro12 title with a mainly homegrown squad.

I'm not saying it's likely Geoff, just that it's what SHOULD happen, if our development works.

If our NIQs come, and our homegrowns take over the job when they leave, then that is clearly a drop in quality.

You want our homegrowns to take the shirts off these NIQs while they are still here. We want NIQ numbers to reduce knowing that it's no biggie because our homegrowns have surpassed them.

If we are bemoaning our lack of homegrown talent on one hand, and then reducing the opportunities for our actual talent on the other hand then that's as good as tearing up the plan.

No homegrown full back worth speaking of, and Marshall, Cave, Olding, Allen, McCloskey all looking like potentiall handy centers.

So what do we do? We screw over our homegrown centers by switching Payne, and signing an NIQ full back.

I've been aware of the stupidity of it before now, but I've suddenly just got really angry!   

Come to think of it, its the actual opposite of what I wanted a few months back. I wanted Payne to remain at 15, and Olding to be developed as a full back too. It would leave the centers to Marshall/Cave/Mcloskey/Allen.

If Payne plays fullback Ulster have Ricky Andrew as cover. I have time for Andrew but he's not Test class so 15 was a big drop in quality for Ulster last season if Payne was missing. Ulster simply had to buy cover as Andrew is limited, Olding will play centre, Nelson hasn't kicked on, Gilroy has been iffy and Scholes is still too green (and McIlwaine has left).

If Payne plays centre, then Ulster are in even more dire straits and simply had to buy a quality 15. I would have preferred Hogg but Ludik will do a job until one of the above steps up to the challenge.

Ulster can't afford to be a repository for 'ulsterborn only' players irrespective of their ability. Their stated aim is to have two Test class players for every position and that means embracing every player as an 'Ulsterman' irrespective of background or qualification.

Payne playing 15 is simply a by product of us being part of an Irish set up and not a totally independant club.

The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages - this is an exception to that rule.

Please please lets leave Olding at 12 where he can really kick on and own the shirt - we must not mess him around in the way Paddy Wallace was.

Nelson - maybe one the reasons he hasn't kicked on is the coach trold him to f**k off.
Great way to build up a players confidence.

If we had a game tomorrow and all fit I think the selected team would be
Black, Best, Herbst, Henderson, der Merwe, Daick, Wilson, Henry, Pienaer, Jackson, Trimble, Cave, Payne, Bowe, Ludik
Bench: Warwick, Herring, Lutton, Tuohy, Williams, Marshall P, Olding, Gilroy

Mentioning the darkside again someone seems adamant that a Saffer with an Irish granny is coming as a Lock on a 6 month trial contract like Reidy.

Also 2 Leinster props mentioned as recruits for our Academy
Craig Trenier
Jeremy Loughman

Could one of our Leinster brethen provide any info?

geoff998rugby wrote:Payne playing 15 is simply a by product of us being part of an Irish set up and not a totally independant club.

The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages - this is an exception to that rule.

Please please lets leave Olding at 12 where he can really kick on and own the shirt - we must not mess him around in the way Paddy Wallace was.

Nelson - maybe one the reasons he hasn't kicked on is the coach trold him to f**k off.
Great way to build up a players confidence.

If we had a game tomorrow and all fit I think the selected team would be
Black, Best, Herbst, Henderson, der Merwe, Daick, Wilson, Henry, Pienaer, Jackson, Trimble, Cave, Payne, Bowe, Ludik
Bench: Warwick, Herring, Lutton, Tuohy, Williams, Marshall P, Olding, Gilroy

So Luke Marshall is coming back from an Irish tour to miss out on his clubs matchday squad?
And iHumph is coming back home to not even be in the bench?

I expect (hope) that Anscombe will rotate the squad a lot more this season. And I hope the HC shirts are handed out on merit assuming everyone is given a fair crack at putting their hands up.

Personally, I reckon Pienaar has said 'no more out half please!', and iHumph will take up a bench spot most weeks.

geoff998rugby wrote:Payne playing 15 is simply a by product of us being part of an Irish set up and not a totally independant club.

The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages - this is an exception to that rule.

Please please lets leave Olding at 12 where he can really kick on and own the shirt - we must not mess him around in the way Paddy Wallace was.

Nelson - maybe one the reasons he hasn't kicked on is the coach trold him to f**k off.
Great way to build up a players confidence.

Paddy wasn't messed around, he was a victim of his own versatility and inconsistency early in his career. He played where the team needed him and it wasn't until he bulked up and improved his physicality and defence later in his career that he settled on the centre position.

I expect it will be a similar case with Olding and given he has been out for such a long time with long term injury people are jumping the gun about shoehorning him into positions and setting such high expectations. He needs to get some game time and show he can get back to the level he was at previously which is never a given.

Any word on Bowe and his hip problems or news about Marshalls latest knock to the head. I'd imagine there are probably some longer term concerns about both of these guys at this stage? I would suspect that given Bowes age and recurring injuries he is going to play less and less for us, as is Trimble given his elevation to starting Irish wing - that means Allen will be needed on the wing alongside Gilroy.

In which case you can see the value of having Cave covering 12 along with Olding and McCloskey and Payne playing more at 13 because technically Cave is the only outside centre option, whereas with Ludik coming in we have more depth at the back.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Nelson - maybe one the reasons he hasn't kicked on is the coach trold him to f**k off.
Great way to build up a players confidence.

geoff you mentioned problems between Nelson and Anscombe before, does Anscombe just not rate him and not want him there or is it just poor man management?

Clive Olding can cover 10,12,15 and therefore is perfect for a bench spot - along with Gilroy all basis covered in the backs.

If Marshall is in the 23 then Cave isn't because as we all know Payne will be 13.
Fact is we have 2 players coming back from the Ireland tour and one of them will not make the 15 for certain and probably not make the 23.

iHumph is cover for Jackson being with Ireland or injured.
The versatility of Olding means he can cover more.
If you put iHumph on the bench then the logic of that is 2 of Olding, Marshall and Cave will miss out on the 23 !

Rodders I think Paddy was messed around asked to play 15 when he was never a 15, also never that comfortable as a 10 but we had no other cover.
Ulster used that versatility and it was to the detriment of his career.
Just dont want the same happening to Olding.

I agree Olding needs to show his worth again which is why I think he will be on the bench on day 1.

In practise rotation will see all of the above playing as we seek out the best combination.
Injuries and Internationals will 'pre select' the team on a number of weeks.

Marshall was checked out and as far as I am aware it definitely wasn't concussion.
If it wasn't for his history 2 years ago he would have been available for the 2nd test.
They just played it ultra safe which is fair enough.

As for Bowe yep he will be managed but not sure that will get Allen much game time outside of internationals.
I would expect any 2 from 3 - Bowe, Trimble, Gilroy for most weeks.

marty2086 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

Nelson - maybe one the reasons he hasn't kicked on is the coach trold him to f**k off.
Great way to build up a players confidence.

geoff you mentioned problems between Nelson and Anscombe before, does Anscombe just not rate him and not want him there or is it just poor man management?

Definitely poor managment in my book.
As you may recall he come on as sub in a couple of games.
He made a mistake which made Anscombe go ballistic - not sure what it was and he told Nelson
'To F**k off back to the Ravens' and in front of the rest.

Now youngsters make mistake, this kid is not a shirker.
Also basically implies Anscombe doesn't consider the Ravens important.
I know a number of the first team were pretty disgusted by the way Nelson was treated and it lost Anscombe a fair bit of respect.

I expect Nelson will just do his best for the Ravens and in the AIB for a year confident Anscombe if off next summer, at the latest and then he can show a new coach what he can do.

Also hearing disturbing rumours Anscombe has a little clique of players around him.
Not many 3/4 but I know it includes the 2 Kiwis.
Not great to be honest

geoff998rugby wrote:

Also hearing disturbing rumours Anscombe has a little clique of players around him.
Not many 3/4 but I know it includes the 2 Kiwis.
Not great to be honest  

So kinda makes my ideas about rifts between Humphs and Anscombe on the way forward not such a far fetched idea afterall.
Anscombe sounds like a man who was frustrated by not having more control of his own coaching destiny. You say he'll probably be gone soon enough and maybe you're right. But what if things look very bright at the start of the season? What if things look like they might even be relaxing with perhaps a layer of behind the scenes friction being done away with? Would Ulster fans still want him gone?

Well Humphreys not rating Anscombe is not really news.
As I mentioned way back he got an extra year almost by default.
Anscombe was actively looking elsewhere for a job - both Glaws and Cardiff mentioned.
Thats why it was only one year.
If it hadn't been for the McLaughlin debacle I think he would have been sacked - Humphreys feared a similar farce and took the easy option.

I dont think any friction has anything to do with strick discipline vv relaxation of discipline, I do think it comes from a perception of a number of incidence where Anscombe has behaved in a less than professional manner and that is a worry.

geoff998rugby wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

Nelson - maybe one the reasons he hasn't kicked on is the coach trold him to f**k off.
Great way to build up a players confidence.

geoff you mentioned problems between Nelson and Anscombe before, does Anscombe just not rate him and not want him there or is it just poor man management?

Definitely poor managment in my book.
As you may recall he come on as sub in a couple of games.
He made a mistake which made Anscombe go ballistic - not sure what it was and he told Nelson
'To F**k off back to the Ravens' and in front of the rest.

Now youngsters make mistake, this kid is not a shirker.
Also basically implies Anscombe doesn't consider the Ravens important.
I know a number of the first team were pretty disgusted by the way Nelson was treated and  it lost Anscombe a fair bit of respect.

I expect Nelson will just do his best for the Ravens and in the AIB for a year confident Anscombe if off next summer, at the latest and then he can show a new coach what he can do.

Also hearing disturbing rumours Anscombe has a little clique of players around him.
Not many 3/4 but I know it includes the 2 Kiwis.
Not great to be honest  

 you think having worked with the Baby Blacks he'd be a bit more understanding of young players making mistakes.

geoff998rugby wrote:

I dont think any friction has anything to do with strick discipline vv relaxation of discipline,  I do think  it comes from a perception of a number of incidence where Anscombe has behaved in a less than professional manner and that is a worry.

I think he's being a typical New Zealander and maybe some players aren't used to it. Cheika, Gatland, Henry etc. They all have that abrasiveness even in public. If it's there in public and directed at the media, you just know it's there in even more unforgiving terms in training sessions and when relating to players. Players might be being a tad over-sensitive to a common New Zealand trait of straight talking (whether it hurts or not).

I hear what you are saying but it is creating a friction, primarily because players do not appear to be being treated equally - that isn't on.

SecretFly wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

I dont think any friction has anything to do with strick discipline vv relaxation of discipline,  I do think  it comes from a perception of a number of incidence where Anscombe has behaved in a less than professional manner and that is a worry.

I think he's being a typical New Zealander and maybe some players aren't used to it.  Cheika, Gatland, Henry etc.  They all have that abrasiveness even in public.  If it's there in public and directed at the media, you just know it's there in even more unforgiving terms in training sessions and when relating to players.  Players might be being a tad over-sensitive to a common New Zealand trait of straight talking (whether it hurts or not).

If you believed everything that has been said about Anscombe on various forums since April 5th you would be convinced he was on the grassy knoll too. I'm not saying he is the ideal guy for us or that he isn't over-abrasive but I don't mind some hard truths going out to these lads and to be honest all I can do is judge him by what I see him do and say and on that count he is ok.

I agree. I don't know what the norm is for attitude in professional sports setups. But for all we know, Nelson might well strive harder now in order to 'show him'. And maybe thats Anscombe's intention. What would you do if you thought your young talent maybe just weren't trying hard enough, or as focused as they should be. I can see the logic of administering abrasive discipline.

I guess though you need to know your squads, and their breaking points. Maybe Anscombe decided Nelson's mediocrity was no good to him and went for a make him or break him approach. If he perserveres through the critique, he may be a better young player for it. If he shys away and dissapears into AIL forever, then maybe it was never in him?

But sure we knew he was abrasive when we hired him...in fact if I recall that was why we hired him, that there was a perception that McLaughlin was too soft and we needed a hard edge hence the shortlist included Cheika and Anscombe.

Now Anscombe is too abrasive and upsetting certain players?

clivemcl wrote: If he perserveres through the critique, he may be a better young player for it. If he shys away and dissapears into AIL forever, then maybe it was never in him?

That reminds me of something I hear from one of the academy coaches recently when talking about players being cut from the academy. If the player accepts it and ends up quitting then they know they made the right decisions, whereas if the player reacts by going a different route and making a go of things outside the Irish provincial set up then that is the best way to prove them wrong.

I wouldn't want to think players are being singled out for the abrasive tongue lashings or for any form of favouritism but I do hope there's a good hard edge to Anscombe something we could be doing with. A ruthless attitude is what makes New Zealand rugby what it is and I wouldn't mind a bit of it leaking into Ulster.
I know some of the backroom staff that can't stand Anscombe and are barely on talking terms but whether it's because they are being the bar-steward or it's all Anscombe's doing is not known to me so the dury is still out for me.

Don't get upset, get angry- and force your coach to eat his words.

Mind you I can see both sides. It's not necessarily a problem being abrasive in itself, but whether you are abrasive or as meek as a kitten if you are different things to different people that will put peoples backs up regardless. Harsh treatment is one thing and it can act as motivation but it has to be doled out equally and it has to be harsh but fair.

To be clear I have no problem with a coach being abrasive - in fact I welcome it

BUT and it is a big BUT

you simply have to treat players equally - the concern is he has favourites

The reason Anscombe got the job as opposed to Cheika and Sexton is he was prepared to work with our existing coaching staff the other two wanted to bring in their own team

I was just watching the latest Johann Muller video. Felt a bit sad watching it, as he spoke of his time at Ulster, knowing that he won't be playing again     

I also took some encouragement from watching the clip though. I was optimistic about the new signings anyway, but maybe the doubts of others, and the downplaying of quality was getting to me a bit. Anyway, Muller's interview has put that right     The guy's optimism for Ulsters future, and the three Saffer signings in particular, is infectious. A real tonic. 

SUFTUM!

I'd agree there - these signings, at least the ones I am aware of, are a lot better than most seem to realize.
Also all of us in Ireland need to realise that with the very rare exception the days of the big big signings are a thing of the past.

Verey interesting meeting at the club last night - I thought Logan came across well.

On the playing side could not speak highly enough about Muller but that he has really struggled this year and has been running on empty.
Said they tried to keep him as a coach but that he wanted to go home
I sense we have not seen the last of Muller he has a deep love of the place.

Regarding Court said great servant but as he nears 34 his best years are behind him and Black has gone past him this year.

On Afoa he described as a nice guy and also mentioned his personal life re wife and relatives dying. However interestingly he said he only perofrmed for a season as a quarter and that he has serious injury issues but not our problem.

Which brings us on to Humphreys it clearly did come as a complete 'bolt out of the blue'. Some visible bitterness as Humphreys did not give him a chance to make a counter offer.
Humphreys has a 6 months notice and Logan is not going to release him till he has finished the job - chiefly around contracts this summer.

Said we wanted to keep only 2 of the players who have left - one was definitely Annett although he didn't say that.

Mentioned Gilroy's future as poss FB.
Payne will be playing centre.
Olding was a 12.


Talk of Butterworth and Reidy playing at a higher standard than Doyle did when he arrived.
Felt Doyle coundn't cut it on fast pitches.  

Feels we will be a better team next year because Herbst is an improvement on Afoa, der Merwe is better player than Muller (and that Muller agrees with this given his decline) and that Court has already been surpassed by Black.

Said Rory would be captain and probably a panel of 3 VC's - Henry, Diack and ?? (angain they are my guesses)

Mention that Munster wanted Dave Ryan but we persuaded him to come here.

More on non playing staff next post

On retaining Ravenhill in the ground title said it would have greatly reduced the price.
Said we have one of the highest price ground naming deals around and that both Leinster and Munster have tried and failed to get a deal a similar price.

Mentioned the figures quoted around Murrayfield and said they were pie in the sky and the deal is considerably less than the papers are saying.

Ground capacity will be 17,000 for the first game rising to 18,196 by the end - still 1.7 million pounds worth of work to be done.

Season Tikcets have passed 9000 and could reach 10000 by the start of the season
(6500 this time last year !)

We will be matching the salary levels in England, i nthe years ahead, in order to retain our players

Talked of a 7million profit over the next 3 years.

On players I should add he mentioned the fact that Plumtree really rates Herbst and der Merwe.

Again mentioned our new DoR being more hands on with the coaching staff reporting to him.
Got the impression, we will have temporary appointment for 1 year and then a reformed structure for 2015-16

If Logan delivers as well as he speaks we will be fine

Good stuff Geoff   

Thanks for that Geoff, hugely interesting stuff.

Forgot something said league sponsorship was peanuts and not a big deal either way.
Said the TV deal with Sky was far more valueable and compensated for losing RaboDirect 10 fold.

Some great info there Geoff.

Don't agree with the treatment of Humphreys though, the guy has been an amazing servant and think the club shouldn't hold him to such a lengthy notice period if he wants to move on. Seems a bit churlish to me.

It also condradicts what Logan said in the media, that Ulster didn't try and keep Humphreys, if it was Humphreys who didn't want a counter offer.

This raises serious questions about Logan's trustworthiness and whether in other instances, such as Afoa's, the official club statement from the club can be believed in that case either.

He said he didn't get the chance to keep Humphreys and as such they didn't try.
Humphreys presented Logan with a done deal.
I don't see the contradiction.
I think this is just semantics and you are reading too much into it.

On keeping him he clearly isn't going to insist on 6 months but given the surprise at getting his notice he wants him to clear up the lose ends re contract outstanding that Humphreys has been representive the club in negotaiting - that seems fair enough to me.

On Afoa, knowing he was crocked, I have no doubt the club statement was 100% accurate.

Fair enough, maybe its just the semantics. Its disappointing to see the bitterness between the two parties though, but I suppose that's business.

It's surprising Humph wasn't prepared to negotiate, obviously he really wanted away and money wasn't the issue.

Huimph wants a big job in Dublin.

He has left a team near the top for one down in the dumps.
Given their signings they will improve even if he does nothing.
This will reflect well on him and improve his standing in Dublin.

As you should always do in business - Sell high, Buy low
That is what Humphreys has done