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AP Final Northampton Saints v Saracens

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Post by yappysnap Wed 28 May 2014, 10:51 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start a thread for the final.

I hope it'll be a close game and as a neutral attending, a lot more interesting then the HC final.

Saracens: Goode; Ashton, Bosch, Barritt, Strettle; Farrell, De Kock; Barrington, Brits, Stevens; Borthwick (capt), Botha; Brown, Burger, B. Vunipola.

Replacements: George, Gill, Johnston, Haregreaves, Wray, Wigglesworth, Hodgson, Wyles.

Northampton Saints: Foden; K. Pisi, G. Pisi, Burrell, North; Myler, Fotuali'i; Corbisiero, Haywood, Ma'afu; Manoa, Lawes; Clark, Wood (capt), Dickinson.

Replacements: Hartley, Waller, Mercey, Day, Dowson, Dickson, Wilson, Stephenson.

Heart say's Saints to get their first ever AP title and the cup to get a new name on it, head say's Saracens will do enough to get a win after the let down on Saturday.


Last edited by yappysnap on Fri 30 May 2014, 7:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by beshocked Fri 30 May 2014, 2:55 pm

Agreed. Can't understand why Dickson isn't starting.


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Post by Welly Fri 30 May 2014, 2:55 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nice team barring the fact you left out Wood.

 Was doing it a position v position thing.

 so
6) Clark v Brown
7) Wood v Burger

 and imo a top notch burger is more of a game changer than a top notch Wood imo.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 30 May 2014, 2:59 pm

I'd find room for Wood all day long; cracking player. Can't wait for this game should be great and I have absolutely no idea who's going to win.

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Post by geoff998rugby Fri 30 May 2014, 3:40 pm

Big mistake at 9 by Saints in my view

Will the Saracens LH hold up - not seen a lot of him

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Post by nathan Fri 30 May 2014, 4:02 pm

beshocked wrote:Weighing in on the injury issue

The following have been missing from the Saracens lineup throughout the season due to injury- Goode,Hodgson,Barritt,Taylor,Tomkins,Bosch,Burger,Vunipola x 2,Joubert,Kruis,Farrell (has had a problem with his foot for the last few weeks),Hargreaves,Gill,Botha,Fraser.

Every club has injury issues.

Of course they do, was just pointing out that Tigers amount of injuries this year was pretty bad.

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Post by beshocked Fri 30 May 2014, 4:57 pm

Nathan don't worry we already know. We've been told enough times that Tigers get injuries. The same every year.

Oh and perhaps not signing injury prone players like Tait and Benjamin might help.

Not just Tigers though - look at Corbisiero for Saints.

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Post by B91212 Fri 30 May 2014, 5:28 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:Big mistake at 9 by Saints in my view

Will the Saracens LH hold up - not seen a lot of him
Saints have been having to manage Lee Dickson for a while now, think he has an ongoing groin(?) problem and I'm guessing that is the reason they have gone with Photo-a-Leaky to start, perhaps feeling he couldn't last more than 40 at full tilt.Unlike some I don't mind Kahn but I do often feel that other Saints players can't always read what he is trying to do. Elsewhere in the team it's a shame Elliot is still out as I feel his defense is better than Ken Pisi's. Would have liked Day to start with Manoa at 8 but can understand Sam Dickinson starting, his form recently has been good and he's maybe a little better at the breakdown than big Sam (Saints have struggled against decent 7's). It's good to see Hartley involved and hope he is not risking the shoulder by coming back for a one off game.

From what I have seen of Barrington (Saracens LH) he will hold up fine, looks a decent prospect to me and has kept Gill out of the 23 for most of the season although I'm unsure if Gill was injured or not. As always a strong Saracens side. Kelly Brown was immense in the last meeting, hopefully Saints can keep him quieter this time out. Can understand why De Kock is starting, underrated player in my opinion and offers Saracens a bit more than Wigglesworth.

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Post by yappysnap Fri 30 May 2014, 7:38 pm

nathan wrote:
beshocked wrote:Weighing in on the injury issue

The following have been missing from the Saracens lineup throughout the season due to injury- Goode,Hodgson,Barritt,Taylor,Tomkins,Bosch,Burger,Vunipola x 2,Joubert,Kruis,Farrell (has had a problem with his foot for the last few weeks),Hargreaves,Gill,Botha,Fraser.

Every club has injury issues.

Of course they do, was just pointing out that Tigers amount of injuries this year was pretty bad.

Really?? That's funny because you guys never mentioned it during the season... I would have thought Cockerill would have at least mentioned it a few times pre game?

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Post by nathan Fri 30 May 2014, 9:48 pm

yappysnap wrote:
nathan wrote:
beshocked wrote:Weighing in on the injury issue

The following have been missing from the Saracens lineup throughout the season due to injury- Goode,Hodgson,Barritt,Taylor,Tomkins,Bosch,Burger,Vunipola x 2,Joubert,Kruis,Farrell (has had a problem with his foot for the last few weeks),Hargreaves,Gill,Botha,Fraser.

Every club has injury issues.

Of course they do, was just pointing out that Tigers amount of injuries this year was pretty bad.

Really?? That's funny because you guys never mentioned it during the season... I would have thought Cockerill would have at least mentioned it a few times pre game?

Is it really mentioned that much (more than other clubs) or is it yet again being used as a stick to hit the Tigers with?

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Fri 30 May 2014, 10:08 pm

People don't need to find sticks to beat Tigers with, Cockers hands them out to all and sundry after every defeat or close run thing.
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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 12:19 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:People don't need to find sticks to beat Tigers with, Cockers hands them out to all and sundry after every defeat or close run thing.

i swear fans whine about him more than he whines about the game

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 31 May 2014, 1:46 pm

Conor O'Shea moans as much as Cockers, Mallinder more. They however are "nice" people.

Apparently todays game is a grudge match. Brits thinks Hartley is a dick who deserves nothing, while Mallinder views Saracens as ungracious when they win.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 31 May 2014, 1:47 pm

Oh and hope it is a good game, about to take my seat and cheer Saints on  vomit 

See you all in the Autumn.

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Post by Driver Sat 31 May 2014, 2:36 pm

Has anyone got a stream for this game?
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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 2:47 pm

Good luck both teams, haven't worked out who i'm cheering for yet. Suppose it would be good for Saints to win, at least it would put an end to the "it's our time" malarkey.

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 3:01 pm

Glad JP Doyle got the gig, becoming a brilliant ref

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Post by Guest Sat 31 May 2014, 3:20 pm

Decided to watch this. Glad I did so far, very entertaining and I admire the work rate of both these teams so far. Good to watch.

Driver I sent a PM.

6-0 to Sarries after 20 mins. Two ruck-related penalties applying pressure.

Collisions are about even though & Northampton breaking tackles.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 31 May 2014, 3:21 pm

JP is a bit too by the book for my liking. He doesn't take into account whereabouts the offence Is committed etc he just tends to go straight for the harsh sanction. That's nit picking though, good ref.

Saints look good ball in hand but aren't doing well with the tactical kicking.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 May 2014, 3:24 pm

Pretty harsh offside call but Farrell misses. Still entertaining for a match not happening in either 22!

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 3:30 pm

Hmm, looked like a Saints player went straight off their feet at that last ruck.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 May 2014, 3:34 pm

Excellent break, lineout work and team try there. Twice declined the penalty for the lineout Saints - very well played.

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Post by Guest Sat 31 May 2014, 3:36 pm

WOAH! set of incredible offloads by Northampton at the restart

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Post by Guest Sat 31 May 2014, 3:37 pm

Ok I'm talking to myself. Not many English posters on this board then?

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Post by Biltong Sat 31 May 2014, 3:37 pm

I am watching this game and it seems the referee has decided he is just going to leave the scrums be, just about no prop scrumming straight from either side, players popping up, not one player is paying attention to the Crouch, bind set, they just take a bind when he says crouch.

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 3:41 pm

Biltong wrote:I am watching this game and it seems the referee has decided he is just going to leave the scrums be, just about no prop scrumming straight from either side, players popping up, not one player is paying attention to the Crouch, bind set, they just take a bind when he says crouch.


I dont mind him letting a little go, but corbs i think should be pinged for not pushing straight.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 31 May 2014, 3:42 pm

Saints throwing the ball around nicely but lacking accuracy. Well worked try mind. Once Saints are in behind that rush defence Sarries look in a mess.

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 3:43 pm

Hmmm, Lawes didn't look legal there?

edit: ah, i take that back. he was.


Last edited by nathan on Sat 31 May 2014, 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Biltong Sat 31 May 2014, 3:44 pm

i don't think he was legal the first time either.
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Post by yappysnap Sat 31 May 2014, 3:52 pm

So a few thoughts.

Sarries are very boring and there music is pretty annoying.

There are a lot more Saints fans here and they drink a lot more

Sarries started better but Saints growing into it

No one should have to get up 3 times in one half!

All in all a fairly good final

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 4:08 pm

Should of been called not straight at the lineout.

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 4:11 pm

you cant jump into a tackle surely!!!!

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 31 May 2014, 4:13 pm

Good for England with both Lawes and Goode playing well. Lawes showing some savvy play, looks very much an international at the minute. Goode is just everywhere at the minute, tackling needs a little more grunt to it though.

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 4:14 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Good for England with both Lawes and Goode playing well. Lawes showing some savvy play, looks very much an international at the minute. Goode is just everywhere at the minute,  tackling needs a little more grunt to it though.

Yeah Lawes is having a great game, will be interesting to see what Dickson adds to the game now. Kahn has had a ok game.

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 4:16 pm

I think Ashton is playing well too, he actually looks hungry for tackles.

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 4:18 pm

Come on George, go easy on our england 10!

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 31 May 2014, 4:21 pm

The Sarries back three have all been involved heavily in defence. Ashton definitely improved his tackling.

Thought I'm full speed Farrell was a little light on the arms for his tackle on North. Slow motion says I'm wrong, good call referee on that one. Big hit as well.

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 4:22 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:The Sarries back three have all been involved heavily in defence. Ashton definitely improved his tackling.

Thought I'm full speed Farrell was a little light on the arms for his tackle on North. Slow motion says I'm wrong, good call referee on that one. Big hit as well.

Didn't stop Mallinder and West having a moan though!

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 4:25 pm

Upper hand to the Saints! This could be it.

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Post by GLove39 Sat 31 May 2014, 4:26 pm

What a great try. Lovely little dab through by Myler

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 4:28 pm

I thought it was the hands that matter? not the direction of the ball, these pundits change their minds every bloody week.

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Post by BamBam Sat 31 May 2014, 4:28 pm

Bloody hell that was forward

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Post by nathan Sat 31 May 2014, 4:29 pm

It is forward, but i'm not happy they came all the way back for that.

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Post by BamBam Sat 31 May 2014, 4:29 pm

Does anyone know the actual bloody rule? Even if the score has been given the more important thing is to get the right decision

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Post by GLove39 Sat 31 May 2014, 4:29 pm

So, no try then?

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Post by Guest Sat 31 May 2014, 4:30 pm

Northampton's try goes to TMO when Pisi was about 400km onside. Saracens' try doesn't go to TMO despite the penultimate pass being 900miles forwards.

And then the TMO asks the ref to look at it after it's been awarded O_o

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Post by Hood83 Sat 31 May 2014, 4:30 pm

JP Doyle is a woeful ref, never liked him. Good on him for having the guts to go back to chalk that try off though.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 31 May 2014, 4:30 pm

Farrell really Is an idiot. Pulls his calf kicking the ball into the crowd in celebration.

Can you reverse the decision like that?

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Post by BamBam Sat 31 May 2014, 4:30 pm

It was only the second to last pass though, think there's been far worse cases with going all the way back

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Post by Guest Sat 31 May 2014, 4:31 pm

On balance I think it's a good thing as justice has been done. If Sarries are good enough they'll score a legitimate time. HOWEVER it does create a big problem as to who the actual ref is and how much the TMO can infringe on the game...


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Post by Notch Sat 31 May 2014, 4:31 pm

Sam it happened to Ulster in the league last season after the final whistle was blown and then the ref got a call from the TMO to check something in the last play.
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